Son interested in model railroading--need some advice/help

[Anonymous]

My son (8 yrs old) has shown some real interest in model railroading and I would like to get him something for Christmas. Unfortunately, I have absolutely no knowledge or experience with/about model railroading.

We have gotten books from the library, picked up what magazines we could, researched the internet, but there is SO much info out there, I fear I am starting to hit "information overload" and honestly don't know where to start.

We are a military family, currently in Germany, so space/portabilty are my first concerns--not too mention cost and time...but not at the sacrifice of quality (I believe you get what you pay for and starting off 'too cheap' is the surest way to ruin a prospective hobby, or any other endeavor for that matter).

Due to the above, I have been leaning towards N scale in something no larger than 2 1/2-3 feet X 4-6 feet in size. To give you an idea in the style of locomotive he seems interested in, he likes both the Athearn Genesis F series Union Pacific and the Overland Canadian Dash 8-40CM locomotives. We are originally from Michigan with ties to North Dakota (my son was born there), and would like a train 'set' that would have operated in either/both locations.

Given my limited knowledge and time (I don't have the time to spend hours a day for months on end to accomplish most of the setups I've seen, but I still want to get him something nice and reliable--something he can have fun with and can be used later if he sticks with it), I have been leaning towards one of the Woodland Scenic or perhaps one of the Noch (I am in Germany and there's a dealer close by) kits. Are there any others I should consider? Opinions on any? Or would I be better off getting a piece of plywood, painting it green and brown, get a bunch of track and make some sort of layout to fit?

Any and all help and/or advise on track, controllers, layout kits, train manufacturers, is N scale the way to go for an 8-year-old?--anything-- would be most appreciated.

[garr]

Toobroke,

My scale is HO so I am not much help with N scale info--however, at www.atlasrr.com there is an N scale forum with a lot of activity. Should definitely be worth a try.

Jay

[wctransfer]

Ok, your son is 8. Try this site for cars and engines at a good price, and very nice, make sure he is VERY careful with them though. www.athearn.com is a good start for you. N scale is ok, but it doesnt have much detail and you pay as much for a N scale as you do for a HO engine. SO HO will probably provide the most fun for the little feller. Buy an engine or two from athearn and about 7 or 8 cars to get him started. That should make him real happy.

Alec

[dknelson]

Speaking personally I think N can be tough for 8 year old fingers to deal with in terms of rerailing the cars and putting the track together correctly. I'd go with HO but perhaps that is just my bias. If the only space you have however is in the 2 1/2 foot by 4' or 6' range then I think N is your choice by default. If your boy is clever with his hands perhaps N would work great. I went from Lionel to HO back when I was about that age (there was no N then). I have operated on N layouts but now it is my aging eyesight not my fingers that makes N impossible for me.
At that age I would definitely investigate the various quality lines of easy to assemble track and roadbed such as Kato's. I think Kato makes some track sets for entire layouts in fact in both HO and N. It can be pricey but separate pieces of track can be tricky for a younster to assemble without constant adult supervision. The Kato system removes alot of the possibility of error and keeps the track together, which avoids a major frustration with separate track pieces.
There are train sets that have trains and track but I would go with a better quality track and buy the trains separately. In N, there are some nice locomotives from Kato and Life Like. Kato is top of the line stuff and is priced accordingly. LifeLike makes some very nice engines that seem well made. The thing is, there are trains that are toys and are priced like toys but for durability and quality you pay the price. It seems you realize that but I think for many of us the idea of giving an 8 year old a Kato engine sounds like it could end badly.
I guess being in Germany there is one thing to keep in mind. The finest line of HO trains in Germany is Maerklin but the Maerklin system is not compatible with the HO trains found in the USA. they use a proprietary system of power and track. So if you go Maerklin (costly but reliable and extremely high quality) you commit to sticking with it or switching to something entirely different.
The ideal would be if the boy could visit some layouts and try doing things like rerailing a car or locomotive or put some track together.
Dave Nelson

[MAbruce]

Welcome to the forum!

I have a nine year old son who was interested in this hobby since he was six. Of course it’s be bit different with us because I already had an N-scale layout for him to “play” with.

I’ve been in N-scale since I was a kid. My father was not into the hobby, so I started without anything. My parents were surprised at how well I took to such a small scale at my age, and my son took well to it too. I’m not saying that all kids that age will be able to deal with a small scale, but it’s certainly possible. In some cases, they can more easily adapt to working with the small sizes than an adult can.

I’m not extremely familiar with the Woodland Scenic layout products, but have seen them. They do seem to offer a lot of opportunity to develop the skills to model, but I think it will end up involving you more than him while building it. I’m also not too sure how well these will travel as they are made of foam. Maybe a bit too fragile?

If you are looking for a good quality N-scale starter set, then Kato has some good basic loop kits (Unitrack) that can be expanded. They also offer a basic train set that includes one of their great running locos. I have heard from many who have made great layouts using their Unitrack product (although it can be a bit pricy).

Overall, I’d recommend that you consider a “door” type layout. It’s a layout put down on a door. It’s small, rugged, and offers enough room for a good starter layout. You can find layout ideas at this website:

http://www.layoutdepot.com/designs.ihtml?step=2&sw=All&scale=N

Good luck and have fun!

[rrinker]

And now for something completely different... I'm going to be contrary to the other opinions and say that N scale is NOT a bad idea. I think it depends on the boy, is he good with his other toys, or does e destroy things? If he knows how to properly treat his property, then N scale will not be a problem. I was runnig N scale trains at home logn before 8, and by 8 I had my own small N scale layout (we didn't have a lot of room in our house, so the HO only went up from November-January. By building a small N scale layout I had trains all year around). Since space is a major concern, the mentioned dimensions would just not work for an HO layout. A switching layout, sure, but at 8 he will likely loose interest faster than if there is an option for continuous run, which can be easily done in that space in N scale.
Kato, Atlas, and Micro-Trains all make top quality N scale locos and cars. For the early go arounds, you might want to consider Kato Uni-Track, it doesn't have to be permenantly fastened down, and can be altered on a whim. It's easy to experiment with different track arrangements until the ideal solution is found. Then it can be fastened down and scenery added, or the layout could be built using more conventional track and roadbed.

--Randy

[Anonymous]

Toobroke,

By the looks of your screen name I will assume your enlisted. [bow] As some of the other guys have already said and I will agree HO is the best bet here since the detailing will be good and the pieces are a good size for an 8 year olds hands. buy the best engine you can afford either Kato, Athearn, Proto 2000 etc. Look on the internet for Items they will usually be offerd lower than your local hobby shop. Buy good cars they last longer and work better in my experience then the cheaper ones do just my opinion but I like Athearn, Round house and atlas for my cars. You will need a transformer and track as well. You can buy a train set but I have found most to be of lesser quality. For the layout if you can swing the space a 4x6 piece of ply wood would work and if you plan it out good it should be transportable for when you get tranfered back stateside. thesere is much to learn and we will all give you different opinions so do some research and decide for you self whats best for you and good luck.

By the way [#welcome] to the forums.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker

And now for something completely different... I'm going to be contrary to the other opinions and say that N scale is NOT a bad idea. I think it depends on the boy, is he good with his other toys, or does e destroy things? If he knows how to properly treat his property, then N scale will not be a problem. I was runnig N scale trains at home logn before 8, and by 8 I had my own small N scale layout (we didn't have a lot of room in our house, so the HO only went up from November-January. By building a small N scale layout I had trains all year around). Since space is a major concern, the mentioned dimensions would just not work for an HO layout. A switching layout, sure, but at 8 he will likely loose interest faster than if there is an option for continuous run, which can be easily done in that space in N scale.
Kato, Atlas, and Micro-Trains all make top quality N scale locos and cars. For the early go arounds, you might want to consider Kato Uni-Track, it doesn't have to be permenantly fastened down, and can be altered on a whim. It's easy to experiment with different track arrangements until the ideal solution is found. Then it can be fastened down and scenery added, or the layout could be built using more conventional track and roadbed.

--Randy

I am with Randy on this, when I was 6 or 7 I got a N scale set for Xmas, it was just an oval on a piece of plywood, with sawdust for grass and a little pond with a mirror. I took very good care of it, and would spend hours going around in circles, the train not me, that was out door stuff [:D] so I think it depends on what his respect level is with his current toys and "hobbies". We have a child with Down Syndrome that we are trying to take an interest in trains, I would never think of N but we did go HO for him, but even looking back on that choice for him, I really should have gone G scale, but he has a lot of hand eye issues, is rather rough with his toys, TV etc, we are on our 4th VCR in a 2 years and he pretty well has destroyed his remotes and broken every knob off his TV. So if he (your son is responable( I think I would let him take part in the choice of scale, etc. There isn't a better hobby for him to take on the model railroading.

[Adelie]

Welcome aboard, Toobroke. [#welcome]

Information overload hits those of us who have been around a while, too. Not only is there a lot of it, but it is often conflicting. Feel free to ask any questions you have out here. Somebody will know the answer or answers.

Once upon a time, N-scale and 8-year olds absolutely did not mix. That is no longer the case. The number of interesting designs you can fit into a 2x4 through 3x6 space in N scale is substantially larger than that of HO. So, given your space restrictions, I think you are leaning the right way. Especially so if your son would not gain a full appreciation of switching layouts (as few 8 year olds would). If your son was interested in steam, that would probably muddy the water a bit, since there is and probably always will be more steam available in HO.

If you go the N-scale route, check out the Atlas site, as Jay said above. There are probably other sites with track plans, as well. For ease of construction, I'd look at the Kato Unitrack stuff (www.katousa.com). It is one of the roadbed and track in one setups. I don't use it, but those out here who do seem happy with it. The Kato sited also has track plans.

If you convert a plan from HO to N, remember that N is 54.5% the size of HO.

Almost any N-scale locomotive bearing the Kato or Atlas name will be a good one. I've had good luck with some Life Likes and even the Bachmann Spectrum 8-40C/CWs. However, you do generally get what you pay for. Other quality locomotive sellers are Intermountain and Micro Trains, although I've not used them. Freight cars from Micro Trains, Intermountain and Deluxe Innovations are the best, Atlas are pretty good and Kato aren't bad. The others are hit and miss.

You are looking at an area of the country that is not one I have thought much about in the past, so I can't help there. Railroads to research Great Northern, DT&I, Soo and Burlington Northern, but who did what and when up there is not something I know for sure. I'm sure I'm overlooking one or more substantial railroads, too.

[loathar]

i was going to mention the Woodland Scenic all in one layout. Just add trains and a power pak.
http://www.woodlandscenics.com/
Go to the Scenic Rigde tab for N gauge.
Welcome to the forum and thanks for serving your country!

[waltersrails]

Welcome first of all. Theres a few sites i can refer www.discounttrainsonline.com for cheap but name brand stuff. I don't know much about in N scale trains but my friend has some and i have a small set but i don't use it unless for christmas time. I hope the site helps.

http://ztrainman.tripod.com/

[grandeman]

Well, first of all, I'd highly recommend you get into the hobby with him. It's been a blast for my son and I. I wouldn't take anyting for the time we've spent together with the trains.

I agree with some of the other comments, it depends on the kid as to weather N scale is appropriate or not.

I'd take a long look at some of the Atlas track plans and also, as loathar mentioned, the Woodland Scenics layout kits. They are really nice and are also lightweight and portable.

As for the specifics, I'd recommend a theme for the RR from the start. We made the mistake of buying any loco we liked at first and ended up with a little of everything. Later, we went for a theme (Rio Grande, mid 60's coal operation) and the fun/interest factor went way up. You and your boy can spend much quality time reading about prototypes and discussing what theme to go with. That's half the fun! By Christmas he'll be about to pop...

[dehusman]

I would put a layout on a small door or a piece of 2' foam. For example if you used two18" wide doors and made the connecting tracks between each door removeable, it would be very easy to disconnect the two halves, set them face to face and then take thin strips of thin plywood or masonite 8" to 12" wide and screw them to the edges of the door, making a very strong, light and secure shipping box. If you needed something smaller, you could use 1x4's or similar sized wood/strips of plywood to make two frames and cover them with 1/2 in plywood or 1/4 in plywood and 1 or 2" foam.

I would suggest the BN or BNSF railroad because it goes to the areas you are interested in and operated darn near every type of car or locomotive out there.

Good luck.

Dave H.

[selector]

Not that you need any more advice after all of the honest judgements expressed above, but speaking from my own experience as a boy of ten, I was thrilled to receive a toy train set at Christmas many years ago. It was Marklin, and HO. I took very good care of them because they were so precious to me. I don't see why your son wouldn't place the same reverance on an N-scale set. Of course, you would be nearby until you felt comfortable with his abilities and his attitude; the inevitable mishaps are likely to be just that.

Start smart, and grow into the hobby together. If that means an eventual change up to HO, then it will happen.

[emdgp92]

I've just started messing around with N scale (I'm more into HO), and one thing I've noticed is that the selection of equipment isn't as large. But, I don't seem to have problems finding newer stuff when it becomes available. For example, at least here in PA, I have all the N (and sometimes HO scale) Penn Central stuff to myself :p

If you're just starting out, I'd start with a good-quality Atlas engine, such as a GP9 or something similar. A smaller engine would be better if you're building a small layout. Throw in some Atlas, Bowser, or other freight cars, and you're all set.

[orsonroy]

If you're in a move-prone situation with limited space, I'd actually recommend NOT building a "real" layout. Instead, go with sectional track with built in roadbed, by either Bachmann or Kato. That way, the track can be laid right on the floor, which won't permanently take up any living space. Your son will also be able to reconfigure the track at will, which should keep his interest level up.

I'd suggest HO, rather than N scale. N is a great modeling scale, but isn't that great when it comes to "play value". The equipment is more delicate, is more derailment prone, and won't take nearly as much stresses as HO will. Loinel might be better still, but is definitely more expensive. It's also toy train stuff, which will do your son no good if he ever gets the model building bug.

For steam engines, go with Bachmann Spectrum or IHC. For diesels, go with Atheran "blue box" or Life Like Proto 1000 (not 2000, which are more expensive and more prone to break). For cars, go with basic Athearn or Accurail, and buy kits! (it'll give him something to do, and improve his assembling and tool use skills levels) For power, go with a basic DC power pack, and only get into DCC if his interest level stays high after a year or two.

[MAbruce]

Sorry - just wanted to comment/request clarification on a couple of things said about N-scale:

QUOTE: Originally posted by orsonroy

N is a great modeling scale, but isn't that great when it comes to "play value".

Funny, it had plenty of "play value" for me at that age.

QUOTE: The equipment is more delicate,...

The same thing can be said of any scale. It really depends on the particular item you are talking about. I have an old F unit that has survived more than one trip off the table - but I would not try the same thing with most other locos I have.

QUOTE: ...is more derailment prone,..

HUH?? Now that's one I'm going to have to ask you to explain further.

QUOTE: and won't take nearly as much stresses as HO will.

Again, it depends on what equipment you are talking about and what kind of stresses. It strikes me if anyone is worried about this with their child, then maybe this hobby is not right for them at all.

QUOTE: Loinel might be better still, but is definitely more expensive. It's also toy train stuff, which will do your son no good if he ever gets the model building bug.

Well, I'm not into Lionel - but that's a rather condescending remark about that scale...

I have no ill feelings towards HO (or any other scale), and think it’s a great scale full of great choices and incredibly talented modelers. But some of what’s been said here smacks of classic “old school” stereotyping we've put up with for years by grumpy old modelers [;)] who refuse to accept N-scale as legitimate.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MAbruce

Sorry - just wanted to comment/request clarification on a couple of things said about N-scale:

QUOTE: Originally posted by orsonroy

N is a great modeling scale, but isn't that great when it comes to "play value".

Funny, it had plenty of "play value" for me at that age.

QUOTE: The equipment is more delicate,...

The same thing can be said of any scale. It really depends on the particular item you are talking about. I have an old F unit that has survived more than one trip off the table - but I would not try the same thing with most other locos I have.

QUOTE: ...is more derailment prone,..

HUH?? Now that's one I'm going to have to ask you to explain further.

QUOTE: and won't take nearly as much stresses as HO will.

Again, it depends on what equipment you are talking about and what kind of stresses. It strikes me if anyone is worried about this with their child, then maybe this hobby is not right for them at all.

QUOTE: Loinel might be better still, but is definitely more expensive. It's also toy train stuff, which will do your son no good if he ever gets the model building bug.

Well, I'm not into Lionel - but that's a rather condescending remark about that scale...

I have no ill feelings towards HO (or any other scale), and think it’s a great scale full of great choices and incredibly talented modelers. But some of what’s been said here smacks of classic “old school” stereotyping we've put up with for years by grumpy old modelers [;)] who refuse to accept N-scale as legitimate.

[#ditto]
orsonroy, do you or have you ran an N scale layout as of late? I have almost zero derailments, unless the car has a problem. Track is on par with HO. If we went with that reasoning, I would say go to O or G. It all depends on the $$ and time you take building or "playing" with the layout.

[Anonymous]

A couple of thoughts jumped to my head instantly. First, I would say to go with N like you said. When I first got into the hobby way back when, the thing that got me and most of us there was trains. With N, you will be able to build and expand in that small space you mentioned. If you get one of the atlas rerailers, I dont think he would have any trouble getting the cars on the track. He could use the re-railer at least until he got the hang of doing it himself.

Secondly, as I am unfamiliar with all the manufactures of N trains, I would stay away from Athearn Genesis. Not they are bad, but I think they are too good for an initial train. While you do get what you pay for, there are some items that are still good, but not exact in detail. I model HO and find the Athearn blue box would fit here perfect. The quality is good and they are inexpensive compared to the other items out there. I would wait until he gets more entrenched in the hobby to upgrade to the higher priced items. With the money you would pay for a Genesis, you could probably purchase a couple engines and a setup where you could run multiple trains.

[Don Gibson]

1. Choice of 'SCALE' is dictated by layout limitation's.
2. Layout SIZE is dictated by room limitation's.

Generalities
4' X 8' is good for HO freight operation; N passenger train's, with 22" radius max.
Under 4X8 should be N guage
Smaller equipment needs more care, laying track, etc.

Suggestion: Give siblings their own equipment to run, instead of sharing your's.

[egmurphy]

QUOTE: Dave H: For example if you used two18" wide doors and made the connecting tracks between each door removeable, it would be very easy to disconnect the two halves, set them face to face and then take thin strips of thin plywood or masonite 8" to 12" wide and screw them to the edges of the door, making a very strong, light and secure shipping box.

Funny you brought that up. I actually did something very similar in my last move. My layout is on a 36' wide hollow core door. At move time it had just the foam, a lot of roadbed, and some track laid. I bought another 36" door, some thin plywood, and did exactly that. Made sides of about 1'-0" high, screwed the sides to the two doors, and it did indeed turn out to be a sturdy but lightweight shipping box.

If TooBroke doesn't build scenery too high (or if it were removable) the layout could easily be packed up for a move in this manner (first removing delicate stuff like buildings, of course).

Regards

Ed

[orsonroy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dthurman
orsonroy, do you or have you ran an N scale layout as of late? I have almost zero derailments, unless the car has a problem. Track is on par with HO. If we went with that reasoning, I would say go to O or G. It all depends on the $$ and time you take building or "playing" with the layout.

Yes, actually, I'm working on Ntrak modules #7 and #8 this weekend, in fact.

I grew up with N scale, since my father converted to N in 1968 or so. And I'll stick with my assessment of the scale: it's too delicate, too finicky, and too tempermental for the run of the mill pre-teen.

[fwright]

It's a great hobby for a kid, because you learn so much (together) while having fun (together). My father bought me Lionel at that age, and I still remember learning about carpentry and electricity and wiring and soldering from our work together on the layout. It was interesting enough that I later went into electrical engineering, and I certainly knew far more than my peers all through high school that weren't involved in a hobby with a major electrical component.

I would not have recommended N for an 8 year old until reading the other responses. But now, I would say it depends on the abilities (hand-eye coordination) and desires of the kid. A 4ft x 6ft layout is about the minimum for a parent/child HO or O27 (Lionel) layout, but can be a lot of fun. Such a size fits nicely into 2 twin mattress cartons taped together when you move. The movers struggle a lot more when your layout is 8ft or longer, especially with the overseas crates - they are generally just under 8ft on the inside dimensions. N allows you to go smaller, or fit more "stuff" into the same size.

The most important part of the experience is to let your 8 year old do some of the construction and running himself, giving him only the minimum amount of guidance necessary for him to be successful. That's how I learned to solder - my first attempts were massive blobs, but at least they made enough of a connection of the wire to the rail so the current flowed. Same with laying the track, mounting accessories, and so forth. Just being there watching Dad do it all is the sure path to boredom for the kid.

If you don't have a particular modeling skill developed yourself, don't worry about it. Setting the example of learning by doing will encourage your son to attempt new challenges and skills himself. As a teacher and youth leader, that is the one value I would really like to impart to today's youth; to go out on a limb and try new games, hobbies, skills, etc, even at the risk of "failure" or "looking bad".

Enough of my soapbox - go build a layout and enjoy!

[orsonroy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MAbruce

Sorry - just wanted to comment/request clarification on a couple of things said about N-scale:

QUOTE: Originally posted by orsonroy

N is a great modeling scale, but isn't that great when it comes to "play value".

Funny, it had plenty of "play value" for me at that age.

Not for me. I was much happier in Lionel at eight.

QUOTE: The equipment is more delicate,...
The same thing can be said of any scale. It really depends on the particular item you are talking about. I have an old F unit that has survived more than one trip off the table - but I would not try the same thing with most other locos I have.

Delicate may be a bit subjective, but N scale is still WAY more delicate than HO or the other large scales. It only takes a very slight pressure to pop out wheelsets or couplers, or to break off handrails, or to torsion snap track into oblivion. A little bit of that and I can see most kids being thrown off the hobby completely. Rember: human children are the single most destructive force in the Universe. That's why Lionel stuff used to be built so tough: if it could survive a room full of seven year olds, it was built to LAST.

QUOTE: ...is more derailment prone,..
HUH?? Now that's one I'm going to have to ask you to explain further.

Simple physics. It takes less vertical seperation between track members to cause a derailment. It takes a smaller track gap to cause a derailment. It takes less "earth tremors" to cause a derailment. It takes less weight behind the engine to cause stringlining.

QUOTE: and won't take nearly as much stresses as HO will.
Again, it depends on what equipment you are talking about and what kind of stresses. It strikes me if anyone is worried about this with their child, then maybe this hobby is not right for them at all.

Children are clumsy and destructive, whether or not they mean to be. That's why Lionel is associated with being a kid: it's tough enough to survive the sorts of things that would obliterate models in smaller scales.

QUOTE: Loinel might be better still, but is definitely more expensive. It's also toy train stuff, which will do your son no good if he ever gets the model building bug.
Well, I'm not into Lionel - but that's a rather condescending remark about that scale...

No it's not; it's a basic statement of fact. Virtually all Lionel stuff is a caricature of reality, rather than a faithful model of it. I've got seperate handrails on my HO and N scale 40' boxcars; why do my Lionel cars have molded on grabs? What's wrong with the nose profile of the original Lionel F3? (A: almost everything). There's also virtually none of the more basic O scale kits out there that we enjoy in the smaller scales.

QUOTE:
I have no ill feelings towards HO (or any other scale), and think it’s a great scale full of great choices and incredibly talented modelers. But some of what’s been said here smacks of classic “old school” stereotyping we've put up with for years by grumpy old modelers [;)] who refuse to accept N-scale as legitimate.

Sorry; I'm only 35. I might come off as grumpy, but I ain't old yet!

Look, I'm not an HO'er out to get N scale. I'm a dual-scaler (if I could get enough decent steam in the prototypes I need, I'd be an N scaler exclusively). I scratchbuild N scale freight cars, for cripe's sake. But be realistic: N scale is generally too delicate for most pre-teens, and this hobby is pricey enough to not mess with "experimentation". If we could still go to the Ben Franklin and pick up an American Flyer set, I'd have suggested THAT. But in terms of availability, proce points, and durability, I'd say that plain old HO is the way to go if you're introducing a family to the hobby for the first time.

[fwright]

Another thought is a "fits under the bed layout". Usually a low (very low - about 9-12 inches) platform about 39 inches by 75 inches will fit under most twin bed frames with head and foot boards (measure first!). A continuous run layout is possible in all 3 scales (O27, HO, N) in that space - the possibilites are much more numerous in N, but the trains are much smaller. The advantage of this size layout is storage, and moving - it fits in that twin bed mattress carton when the movers come.

[dave9999]

I have not read all of the other responses, so forgive me if I repeat someone. The Woodland
Scenics products are a great learning tool. The first layout that I ever built was the WS Grand
Valley layout. It removed so much of the intimadation associated with scenery and track
laying. It will help him learn the skills he'll need when he builds a huge layout one day.

Also, make no mistake, the Woodland Scenics layouts are pricey and these DO NOT go
together in a weekend! It took me months to build the Grand Valley(working mostly nights
and weekends). But, when it's done, It's a really nice, sceniked layout.

I believe the N scale version is called the "Scenic Ridge". Just something to ponder.
Good luck and welcome aboard. Dave

Edit: If you do go this route, get the Track Pack and the Town and Factory Building Kit.
These buildings are DPM kits and are very nice when painted and assembled.

I'm starting to sound like a commercial for Woodland Scenics, so I shut up[:D]. Good luck, Dave

[MAbruce]

QUOTE: Originally posted by orsonroy
Rember: human children are the single most destructive force in the Universe.

Remind me not to visit your universe... [(-D][;)]

Yes, kids can be destructive. Some more than others. But I think human adults are still the benchmark.

QUOTE: ...is more derailment prone,..
HUH?? Now that's one I'm going to have to ask you to explain further.
Simple physics. It takes less vertical seperation between track members to cause a derailment. It takes a smaller track gap to cause a derailment. It takes less "earth tremors" to cause a derailment. It takes less weight behind the engine to cause stringlining.

Wow, sorry to hear about all the issues you've had with your layout. [:0][;)]

QUOTE: But be realistic: N scale is generally too delicate for most pre-teens, and this hobby is pricey enough to not mess with "experimentation".

And this sums up my biggest issue with your replies - Your generalization that N-scale is “generally too delicate for most pre-teens”. I agree that it’s not always going to be a good fit for some children (both scale and hobby), but I don’t think I’d go so far as to make such a statement. Let the parents look it over and decide for themselves if they think their kids have a chance of handling that size - or the hobby in general. And there’s enough older N-scale equipment on the market that I think would make it generally cheaper than HO. But then there is the debate over whether it’s a good idea to start someone out on cheap equipment. If that's the case, then it's going to get expensive no matter what scale they go with.

The two comments you made about children being so destructive is interesting. It makes me wonder if you’ve had some bad experiences with children (perhaps your own?) and your N-scale equipment. Yeah, my son has run a couple of trains into the buffers too hard, initially struggled to get the cars onto the track, unintentionally snapped a tree or two, and even exploded a couple accumate couplers (OKAY – so that’s not so hard to do even for an adult..[banghead][swg]). But I knew from the start he had a good chance of handling it, and it was worth the risk.

It's a risky proposition to give kids the chance to try this hobby, but so are a lot of other things they try in life.

[RedGrey62]

toobroke, welcome!

I am Air Force enlisted and built several layouts for a charity raffle when I was stationed at Offutt AFB, NE. We built HO and N gauge, with most everyone liking the N gauge for the reasons you stated. Here are my suggestions:

Go with N gauge, even though I model in HO, I think that the current N gauge products are outstanding.

Use folding "banquet table" legs under the layout, it can be folded quickly and stored under the bed or against a wall.

Even though you have ties to North Dakota (Minot?), get the roadnames/engines that your son is interested in. It will keep his interest going and cause him to treasure it more.

The Kato unitrack is a great idea but regular track will work just as well. Ask your son what he wants on the layout, then come back here or to the layout forum and ask the questions on to build it!

RedGrey62

[emdgp92]

The guys over on http://www.esthershobby.com are having a "flood sale" (half-off of selected items) recently. These are all things that were salvaged when their shop was flooded last year. I've picked up quite a bit of this stuff, and with a little cleaning, it's as good as new. Of course if you don't clean off the dirt, you don't have to weather it :p

[Darth Santa Fe]

Here are a couple inexpensive but good quality train sets for if you wan't a train set.

HO:
http://walthers.com/exec/productinfo/160-647
http://walthers.com/exec/productinfo/348-312
N:
http://walthers.com/exec/productinfo/160-24008
http://walthers.com/exec/productinfo/big/433-7558
This one's on sale right now.

Hope this helps!![:)][:)]