Walthers purchases assets of Life-Like Products Toy and Hobby Division; Roco declares bankruptcy

[Anonymous]

it doesn't matter if the U.S. Government cares or not, they have to O.K. every merger that happens. so if they think its bad for the market, ( and their bottom line I.E taxes like you stated) they just have to say no to the merger happening, they don't have to explain why or take it any further then that.

[davekelly]

I doubt that the government has to approve the merger or buyout of Life Like and Walthers. As far as I know they are not publically traded entities nor are they in a government regulated market.

[Anonymous]

So ... when does Kato buy out Atlas ???

[Anonymous]

every market in the U.S. has regulation of some kind, even prvately traded companies still have to summit incorporation papers and the like to the the U.S. government. I do not know however how other countries regulate their market practices.

[davekelly]

Actually the incorporation of entities is regulated by the invdividual states. I am assuming that Life Like's corporate structure hasn't changed except that Walthers is now the owner of a controlling portion of the stock. While I'm not familiar with Maryland or Wisconsin corporate regs, I'm pretty sure all that was required was to submit paperwork identifying the new majority stock owner. I doubt very much any approval process that would involve a review of the effects on the marketplace was required.

[Anonymous]

Get your LL stuff now cause it will be like the rest of Walther's TRASH, "OUT OF STOCK"
They need to change their company Name to Out Of Stock Inc. So much for "N' Products from LL now.

[Anonymous]

Or Vice Versa...

Paul

QUOTE: Originally posted by gbailey

So ... when does Kato buy out Atlas ???

[SpaceMouse]

Although I don't know for sure, in my dealings with Life-Like I got the sense that they were under capitolized. They may have been shopping for a buyer.

[Anonymous]

Is "China" on the market? Maybe either walthers or Horizon will buy them next and go directly to the source of production!

[Anonymous]

Well, there goes one of the last mass marketers of electric trains. Walthers will jack up the prices 50% and the stuff will only be sold at your LHS. If mommy and daddy have to go there to get electric trains, the industry will die, taking the LHS with it. [:(][tdn][:(]

[cbq9911a]

IMHO, consolidation is coming to the model railroad industry. Expect to see a lot more consolidations, especially smaller "one man band" companies being bought out as the proprietors retire. The only companies I'd guess not to be in play are Atlas and LGB. Also you won't see an MTH - Lionel merger.

[fiatfan]

What happens to the lifetime warranty on the Proto engines?

Tom

[Anonymous]

I wonder if Walthers will be exclusive for Life Like and Horizon will be cut out???

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by fiatfan

What happens to the lifetime warranty on the Proto engines?

Tom

I've found their lifetime warrantee applies only if it is convenient.

[CNJ831]

Has anybody stopped to give a thought to the basic situation that must have existed to create an atmosphere where Walthers had the potential for buying out LL? We all consider LL a major player in the hobby and its locomotives are generally held in high esteem and seem to sell well.

Now Walthers is no billion dollar company by a long shot, so LL must have been either actively looking for a buyer or at least sending out vibes to that affect through the industry. To me this says LL could either see the future in model trains tails off or they were already not profitable enough to continue.

I fully expect to see a cascade effect in the near future as the likes of IHC, Model Power, Accurail, Con-Cor, Branchline, et al. give up the ghost to Walthers. And if Walthers past company purchase record is any measure, expect to see very little of each line survive!

CNJ831

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Overdurff

Is "China" on the market? Maybe either walthers or Horizon will buy them next and go directly to the source of production!

Or visa-versa -

Maybe China will buy the SELLERS and control it all !!!

Maybe that's their new "5-year plan" !!!!

[Anonymous]

Maybe we will see that QSI Y-6b out of BLI after all.

I have mixed feelings about this sale to Walthers. LL was a good provider.

One thing now.. I need to find and hoard ALL the LL 33" metal wheels I can find before they disappear into the Walthers "Out of stock" or "Retired" hell.

[rrinker]

Good idea, I was just thinking of stocking up on some myself. Buy from MB Klein, $4.50 a pack! I can only laugh when I see people bid them up past $9 a pack on eBay, plus another $4 shipping. Even at my LHS which isn't known for low prices, I don't pay $9 a pack, even with tax added.

All I see happening with this Walthers thing is that the prices will go up. Walthers will naturally tack on their percentage to the price as 'distributor' and the price we pay for P2K locos will go up. The prices for P2K at my LHS are too high for me, I'd never buy one there - why? Because they buy them via Walthers already. Compare to the guys who buy direct from LL. Bet that option will go away almost immediately.

--Randy

[Virginian]

I know nothing of LL Toy Division's past profitability or the terms of the sale. But, I do not get a warm fuzzy feeling. LL WAS a whole lot better to deal with than WKW. I see prices going up. I mean, an E8 should be more than a passenger car, and look at WKW's passenger car prices.
My negative vibes stem from the experience of moves like this being made so people can make more profit with less effort, not to broaden availability or improve service or any of those good things. I think we all better hope that more BLI type enterprises come along in the future or innovation will be a thing of the past IMHO.

[Grubby]

Hopefully these kind of mergers/acquisitions lead to efficiency which in the long term will guarantee a greater return for the companies which will allow continued existence.

It is far better for companies to have product to sell to the MR community than to not exist. Time will tell....

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Grubby

Hopefully these kind of mergers/acquisitions lead to efficiency which in the long term will guarantee a greater return for the companies which will allow continued existence.

It is far better for companies to have product to sell to the MR community than to not exist. Time will tell....

Having product to sell to customers is very nice. But we need orginality that actually works. For example when BLI stomped into the scene a few years ago it changed the hobby mostly for the better.

Now having major companies buy each other out until 3 or 4 mega remain... that cannot be too good.

I suppose after pondering the issue... we should have seen this coming. Why? The products from LL must have had some attraction to Walthers.

Thank you for the tip on MB Klein, I remember his store in Baltimore and look forward to ordering wheels from them.

[Anonymous]

The truth is that whether we like it or not, the model RRing hobby is slowly shrinking, which is why you are seeing consolidation in the industry.

One reason LifeLike probably sold its train business is that it makes more money with its foam products (ice chests, industrial foam) than trains.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by azdub

The truth is that whether we like it or not, the model RRing hobby is slowly shrinking, which is why you are seeing consolidation in the industry.

One reason LifeLike probably sold its train business is that it makes more money with its foam products (ice chests, industrial foam) than trains.

I disagree. They lost in two seperate fires earlier this year if memory serves.

[orsonroy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CNJ831

Has anybody stopped to give a thought to the basic situation that must have existed to create an atmosphere where Walthers had the potential for buying out LL? We all consider LL a major player in the hobby and its locomotives are generally held in high esteem and seem to sell well.

Now Walthers is no billion dollar company by a long shot, so LL must have been either actively looking for a buyer or at least sending out vibes to that affect through the industry. To me this says LL could either see the future in model trains tails off or they were already not profitable enough to continue.

I fully expect to see a cascade effect in the near future as the likes of IHC, Model Power, Accurail, Con-Cor, Branchline, et al. give up the ghost to Walthers. And if Walthers past company purchase record is any measure, expect to see very little of each line survive!

CNJ831

Life Like, Inc., was bought out a year ago by an investment firm. Once they took control of the company and looked at the books, they saw that the only divisions that satisfied their desire to profit from their investment was the foam divisions (the gliders are mostly foam-based). So...they went shopping for buyers. And believe it or not, Walthers is one of the biggest boys on the block. I'm assuming here that Horizon was too debt-ridden from buying Athearn and Roundhouse in the same year, and Walthers had the ca***o pony up. Nothing unusual here; these things happen all the time. Remember AMC? Well, they're still around, they just don't build Jeeps and Eagles any more.

[Trainnut484]

Just throwing in my [2c]. I hope this will mean Walthers upgrading to P2K and P1K standards. Also, maybe Walther's building kits, which are good in their own right, will receive a similar upgrade too.

Take care,

Russell

[Anonymous]

Walthers is overpriced and only deals thru hobby shops. There goes trains for the kids (the future of the hobby).

[ChessieFan13]

I think that in the worlds of buisness the following will apply to us all.............WE are the consumers..........we give them OUR money for the things WE WANT.......There must be enough people that are buying Life Like Stuff........SOOOOO............ If we the people of this great hobby continue to do what makes our hearts and lives a little bit more serene then WE must look at this as a gift...........there is always a bright side to every situation................If you expand your minds and think with me...........Down the road a hobby shop where everything is compatable with every thing.......You dont have to tweak RTR stock before you run it.....Ask for a thing......anything........speak to the cleark and he trundles away to come back with EXACTLY what you want. You take it home and put it on your pike and poof it works just as you thought it would. Nothing extra to do. There are an endless number of possibilities that may happen.But The bottom line is the same....WE the Consumer........ Buy What WE Want .............So do just that continue to buy and hope for the best. MRRing is not on the Decline........Just as we have the younger people in here there will be a new generation of MRRs to come from them..........The more that we do to promote our hobby the mo0re that it will grow...........

WOW ............sorry for the [soapbox]


[soapbox]
Just how I feel..............ChessieFan13

[CNJ831]

QUOTE: Originally posted by orsonroy

QUOTE: Originally posted by CNJ831

Has anybody stopped to give a thought to the basic situation that must have existed to create an atmosphere where Walthers had the potential for buying out LL? We all consider LL a major player in the hobby and its locomotives are generally held in high esteem and seem to sell well.

Now Walthers is no billion dollar company by a long shot, so LL must have been either actively looking for a buyer or at least sending out vibes to that affect through the industry. To me this says LL could either see the future in model trains tails off or they were already not profitable enough to continue.

I fully expect to see a cascade effect in the near future as the likes of IHC, Model Power, Accurail, Con-Cor, Branchline, et al. give up the ghost to Walthers. And if Walthers past company purchase record is any measure, expect to see very little of each line survive!

CNJ831

Life Like, Inc., was bought out a year ago by an investment firm. Once they took control of the company and looked at the books, they saw that the only divisions that satisfied their desire to profit from their investment was the foam divisions (the gliders are mostly foam-based). So...they went shopping for buyers. And believe it or not, Walthers is one of the biggest boys on the block. I'm assuming here that Horizon was too debt-ridden from buying Athearn and Roundhouse in the same year, and Walthers had the ca***o pony up. Nothing unusual here; these things happen all the time.

The background you provide regarding the current situation still jibes with comments. When a company is purchased, the new owners will generally attempt to divest themselves of some division or aspect of the company for one of two reasons. One possibility is that the division may not mesh well with the new owner's manufacturing and operation plans. The other is that the division is currently only maginally profitable and holds little future potential.

While your choice may be the first scenario, I still side with the second one...Life-Like trains was probably let go cheap. [;)]

CNJ831

[dinwitty]

The one problem I have so far with Horizon is accessibility and knowledge.

All of MDC and Athearn has dropped out of the Walthers catalogue
and I see little of nothing about Horizon.

I presume they have a website, well they do, but they work so different than how Wathers does.

If Horizon wants to do something smart, they should make a tru-blue research book like Walthers does.

Walthers may have snapped up LL to keep it away from Horizon.
So far I don't like the way Horizon is handling business, their rather inaccessible.

I emailed Horizon about some of their MDC kits, but the gal didnt seem to really know whadaheck was goin on.

I am going...Whoa and wow on Walthers doing this.

For Roco, Bankruptcy is a bankruptcy protection. Maybe they can get themselves in gear, or maybe they will just fallout totally, but keep the fingers crossed.
Its a modelmaker like BLI that came along surprise surprise and made a decent engine like the N&W 2-6-6-4 DCC and sound and do a reeaaaaally good job on it.

I think BLI is one of the good new modelmakers to come onboard.
Sorry to see Roco make this turn, and I hope Walthers helps to carry on LL's new breath of quality locos tradition.

[Anonymous]

try athearns web site,they're actually doing the roundhouse stuff anyway, I only hope walthers lets lifelike continue without adding unprototypical paint schemes and the like to their P1/2K lines.