To 'PayPal' or not to 'PayPal'....

[dtbowyer]

I've got to agree with Big Boy - I have to really want an item and be able to get it for a steal before I'll buy something on ebay without paypal. It's just too much of a hassle. I've been using paypal for years, with several hundred transactions, with zero problems. (Most of those were buying, not selling - I was a real addict for awhile!) And it is true - if you have a store-front and accept credit cards, you pay a fee. The fee % is based on average volume, so unless you sell A LOT, the paypal fees are comparable.

I do take exception to sellers that use S&H as a method for jacking up their price - I think that's a major rip-off! The fees for ebay and paypal are the SELLER'S cost of doing business, not the buyers! Like any retailer, make sure your price supports your your profit standards, and let the buyer decide if they want it for that price - free enterprise at it's finest!

David

[egmurphy]

QUOTE: Antonio: What is involved in signing up for "Pay Pal"? I'l be doing it soon but would like to know more. From what I've heard you can use your bank account (checking? savings?) and that is how the money is transacted immedietly to pay for an ebay item.

That's how I have it set up, the money is debited out of my checking account. It's been so long since I set it up, but I think I also had to give a credit card as a backup source of funds, but the default on my account is to debit the checking account.

I've only used it as a buyer, and I've used it maybe 60-70 times, but I think it's great. I even use it to donate to Rail Images. Being outside the states it makes things a lot simpler for me than trying to mail stuff.

Regards

Ed

[AntonioFP45]

Thank you EgMurphy.

[Yampa2003]

Living outside the US and buying from various other countries, I find PayPal is the easiest and quickest method. No problems so far either, and I've been using it now for about 2 years.

Brian W.

[CraigN]

I have not created an account with them because I am already losing money to Ebay charges. IMHO, I shouldn't have to lose more money because a buyer wants something quicker.

Maybe I should add the Pay Pal fee to the shipping and handling charge for buyers that want to use that service when I sell something. The buyer pays for the money order if he doesn't use Pay Pal right? So maybe he should also pay the fee for using Pay Pal too?

How much does Pay Pal charge for each transaction? 2.9% plus 30 cents per transaction within th United Staes. That's an additional $3.20 fee for each 100 dollars of transactions. More for transaction outside the U.S.

https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_display-receiving-fees-outside

And a U.S.Post Office money order is what 90 or 95 cents?

For a transaction over 21 dollars, it would be cheaper to use a post office money order then. Anything under 21, would be cheaper to use Pay Pal, if I am doing my math right.


Would you still buy from me if I charged you the Pay Pal fee? Let me know and maybe I will change my position concerning Pay Pal.

[knewsom]

Paypal only charges fees if you have it set up to accept credit card payments as a seller. You can sell and accept a bank transfer payment at no charge and it is completed free as a buyer. One of the problems with the service is that you have to have a US bank account to set up a simple account (bank transfers for accepting and sending payments). A premier account is the type that costs money if you want to sell (and accept credit cards). Since I don't sell that much I did not want to set up a premier account and hence I could not accept money through the service from NZRMAC. But if you are a seller that needs to accept MC/Visa, I don't think the fees are unreasonable. It is basically the cost of doing business. I will agree that it probably is overkill for eBay to charge a fee and then paypal to charge a fee as well.

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CraigN

I have not created an account with them because I am already losing money to Ebay charges. IMHO, I shouldn't have to lose more money because a buyer wants something quicker.

Maybe I should add the Pay Pal fee to the shipping and handling charge for buyers that want to use that service when I sell something. The buyer pays for the money order if he doesn't use Pay Pal right? So maybe he should also pay the fee for using Pay Pal too?

How much does Pay Pal charge for each transaction? 2.9% plus 30 cents per transaction within th United Staes. That's an additional $3.20 fee for each 100 dollars of transactions. More for transaction outside the U.S.

https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_display-receiving-fees-outside

And a U.S.Post Office money order is what 90 or 95 cents?

For a transaction over 21 dollars, it would be cheaper to use a post office money order then. Anything under 21, would be cheaper to use Pay Pal, if I am doing my math right.


Would you still buy from me if I charged you the Pay Pal fee? Let me know and maybe I will change my position concerning Pay Pal.

Craig, I'm afraid your math is a little off. The way I read the fee schedule, the 30 cents is only charged one time per price bracket, otherwise the percentage rate would say 3.2%. You are correct about $3.20 for a $100 sale, but a $10 sale would be 59 cents, and a $1000 sale would be $29.30. That applies to the first $3000 for a maximum of $87.30, after that the rate goes down to 2.5%, but another one time 30 cents is charged up to $10,000.

Money orders also increase in price as their amounts go up. Yes, by taking only money orders, you can throw that expense back on the buyer, but accept a single bogus money order, and Paypal will look like a bargain.

I recently bought a locomotive on Ebay, winning bid $226.01, and paid with Paypal. My seller owed about $6.85 for the transaction. He also owed Ebay for the listing. But he charged me a flat $15 shipping, the true cost of which was closer to half of that, so he really didn't do too badly in the end.

I think where people are getting hung up is when they see the winning bid amounts, and think they should be able to keep every penny. As Bukwrm said earlier, there is a cost of doing business, these aren't just free services.

[CraigN]

I can understand the "cost of doing business" statement.

And it would be alot easier to accept when you truly have a business. There is considerable mark-up in just about everything sold by a retailer, and it is I think, usually already calculated in the purchase price when the seller sets his reserve and or buy it now price.

Now for me, when I sell something, I would like to get as much as I can for what I am selling. I am not a retailer, I am just selling stuff because I need some extra money or else I am selling something I never use anymore. I try to be as honest as I can when I do it. I charge the exact amount that it cost me for postage when I ship something. I feel that if the buyer wants express handling, then he should be the one that pays for it , not me. That's the way it works when I buy from an online retailer right? Next day air and 2nd day usually is alot more than standard shipping. And the buyer pays it all, not the seller.

Not every seller that doesn't use Pay Pal is a dishonest person. So in refusing to buy from a non Pay Pal seller, you may end up missing out on real good deals.

To each his own I guess.

[davekelly]

Craig,

I understand what you are saying about not wanting to deal with "cost of business" but it's there. I doubt very much that ebay and pay pal would be around much if they didn't charge someone for the transaction. If you truly want to keep every penny of a sale - perhaps you should consider a garage sale - that way there is no fee involved to anyone. But then of course time is money.

Of course everyone wants to, as you say, get as much as they can for what they are selling. I would think that is especially true for a retailer who is selling stuff in order to pay the mortgage, buy groceries etc.

The key is balancing convenience, speed, attracting customers etc with the cost. As posted, there are some folks that will only buy things if they can use paypal. If a seller wants those customers he'll have to eat a bit of the sales price. If he doesn't want to deal with paypal, no one forces him to. Merhcants makes the same decisions all the time when they decide which credit cards they will accept and whether or not they'll accept checks.

Of course no one can figure out what is really the best way to sell something. Sure, you can accept only money orders and find a seller to pay, let's say $100.00 for it. Of course there's no way to tell if there were a couple of people that would have bid the item up to $110 if the seller would have accepted paypal. You brought up an excellent point about "in refusing to buy from a non Pay Pal seller, you may end up missing out on real good deals" but then on the other hand by refusing to use pay pal you may end up missing out on buyers willing to pay more. Key word "may."

Bottom line - each person, buyer or seller has to decide what works for themselves.

[loathar]

I figure if somebody can't wait for a check or money order to clear, they may be trying to pull a fast one so I won't buy from them. Why should someone else get a cut of the transaction?
loathar

[simon1966]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CraigN


Not every seller that doesn't use Pay Pal is a dishonest person. So in refusing to buy from a non Pay Pal seller, you may end up missing out on real good deals.

To each his own I guess.

Actually, this is a really good point. I have recently got a couple of good deals on e-bay where Paypal was not accepted, only personal check and MO. I don't mind writing a check and waiting for it to clear. What I really can't stand is the MO or cashiers check only sellers. I just don't have, or want to make the time to go to the bank/ PO to get one. It is not like they are any more secure for the seller as there are numerous stories of fake MO's floating around.

[CraigN]

Dave,
I sell on Ebay every now and then, and I accept the fact that they are charging me to use their service. I would do the same thing if I was providing a service. The worse thing about using Pay Pal to me though, is the fact that they are an Ebay company and they are double dipping into the transaction fees of the seller( the way I see it). And because of that, I choose not to use it. I know, they are providing more of a service and that should demand more of a fee. I understand that. And anybody else that chooses too use it, is more than welcome too.

But like I stated earlier, and this only my opinion, I feel that express handling should be paid by the buyer, not the seller. The service provided by Pay Pal is really an Express service. Yes it services both parties, making transactions much faster. But most companies that offer express services usually charge for them don't they?

If I don't use Pay Pal, will I lose a chance of making a bigger sale? Maybe

Will someone that chooses only to accept Pay Pal for payment, lose some bigger sales? Maybe

If I change my mind and decide to use Pay Pal to get sales, will I transfer the fee in a form of Shipping & Handling charges? Most likely, but I would state that in the auction so potential buyers know up front.

These opinions are strictly my own. I am not trying to get anyone upset or trying to start a flame war with anyone.

Like i ended my last post:


To each his own I guess.

[CraigN]

QUOTE: Originally posted by simon1966

QUOTE: Originally posted by CraigN


Not every seller that doesn't use Pay Pal is a dishonest person. So in refusing to buy from a non Pay Pal seller, you may end up missing out on real good deals.

To each his own I guess.

Actually, this is a really good point. I have recently got a couple of good deals on e-bay where Paypal was not accepted, only personal check and MO. I don't mind writing a check and waiting for it to clear. What I really can't stand is the MO or cashiers check only sellers. I just don't have, or want to make the time to go to the bank/ PO to get one. It is not like they are any more secure for the seller as there are numerous stories of fake MO's floating around.

I actually prefer using U.S. Post Office money orders. I feel that they are safer for me. If anyone passes a fake, then they messing with the Federal Gov't. not just me. Receiving other types of money orders does scare me a little. It is so easy nowadays to print off your own and who would know untill it's too late.

[dtbowyer]

I think we've seen a lot of great opinions here on the subject. I think a little too much is being made of this, though. A few things to think about:

1. PayPal was not originally ownd by Ebay (I think). Fee structures were in place prior to Ebay acquiring PayPal. Should Ebay cut a break to sellers who offer both? Maybe, but that's a demand issue.
2. Ebay isn't the only use for PayPal.
3. PayPal pays a discount fee for the credit card transactions, and so have to pass that on. Like a bank, they of course make money on those fees, because at therir volume, their discount rate is much better than what they in turn offer to sellers. Hey, they have to make a living, too!
4. PayPal offers a comfort to buyers because they don't have to provide a credit card number to everyone they buy from. This helps keep more buyers out there, which is ultimately good for the sellers. Doesn't mean that sellers are inherently dishonest, there are still a lot of people that balk at putting their credit card number out there on the Internet. (That's sometimes a good caution, BTW.)
5. I'll buy from you even if you don't take PayPal, but I am less likely too because of the hassle. Sure, I'm in several places each week that sell money orders, but I have to remember when I'm there to get one, and my short-term memory isn't what it once was. (Maybe a by-product of the 70's - who knows?!?) Besides, ever stand in line at Wal-Mart customer service to buy a money order? It requires much patience and the ability to bite one's tongue on occasion!
6. I'd rather you just pack an extra dollar of two on the S&H (hey, why not share the cost with the buyer) than to specifically "punish" me for using PayPal. I've been in small retail stores that actually up-charge for a credit card transaction, and it's tacky. If you believe the total is going to be high, pack several dollars. Just don't rip us off. Most people have an idea about postage fees. I get really turned off when I'm looking at a $15 item that has a $20 S&H fee - that's just not right!

As long as buyers and sellers are reasonably pleased with the overall process, who cares? There will always be non-PayPal sellers out there, and that's a choice. My thoughts are that anything that can be done to make the transaction easier is ultimately good for everyone!

David

[areibel]

Aggro,
I've used Paypal probably 400-500 times with zero problems, both buying and selling. It does cost you a small amount as a seller, but it's relatively safe for sellers. I got burned for $75 on a fake money order. Some enterprising dude figured out you can scan a money order, print it on check paper and voila! I now hold all non- USPS money orders just like a check, 10 days before I ship. Paypal is simple by comparison, when I get the email from Paypal the money is there. I can ship next day instead of messing around, trying to get to the bank, etc.. And I recently got a refund from an Ebay deal where I was the buyer, I notified Paypal, the seller refunded the money within a day. That probably wouldn't happen without a trip to small claims court otherwise. And postal money orders? Don't buy the claim that Postal Inspectors will jump on your case if there's a problem, if it's a one time deal lots of luck! You have to prove that there's a true case of mail fraud before they'll even look, and that's after 60+ days.
Just start a savings account at your bank, and link that to your Paypal along with your credit card. If you do sell and don't want to accept credit cards, you can get by with the basic PayPal acct., you won't pay fees to receive money. Just state that in your auctions, Paypal but no credit cards, lots of people do it like that.

[CraigN]

I'll have to rethink about it now ( see the smoke?). If I don't have to pay the fees, then it isn't such a bad thing for me.


I guess my problems of using it stem from being too lazy to learn more about it.

[Anonymous]

The quick and dirty on Paypal transactions:

1. As Buyer: Use a credit card. If you don't get what you paid for, and if paypal doesn't recover funds for the dispute, you can do a chargeback and get your money back. Don't pay with paypal funds alone unless you trust the person or don't care if you lose your money.

2. As seller: Don't sell without delivery confirmation. If someone files a dispute, you'll need this to prove you sent it. Only ship without DC if you really trust the person on the other end.

Disputes are pretty rare, but this will protect you if one comes up... and there are certainly unscrupulous folks out there.

So long as you follow these two rules, you'll find paypal enormously useful and convenient. I use it almost exclusively now.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by areibel


Just start a savings account at your bank, and link that to your Paypal along with your credit card. If you do sell and don't want to accept credit cards, you can get by with the basic PayPal acct., you won't pay fees to receive money. Just state that in your auctions, Paypal but no credit cards, lots of people do it like that.

Note that you need to find and display the Paypal logo WITHOUT the credit card symbols to make this ok. If you use the default Paypal logo, you MUST accept credit cards or risk suspension. You can look that up on the Seller's board, there's a thread near the top that explains the appropriate use of the Paypal logo in your auctions.

[Anonymous]

i have used paypal numerous times.....................I much PREFER auctions that accept paypal...i have found it no muss no fuss.......and had excellent luck ......in time you will find the 'good guys' and deal with them

[bp020897]

I find it nice to use but I keep getting junk mail where I am told someone has added an email address to my account. This happened a few days ago again so I clicked on a link within the note and found myself on a screen where I was asked to enter my credit card information to verify my personnal information. I consider this a real attempt to sucker punch people as in ID theft. I blew this screen away but am now considering canning my account as I don't beleive the system is secure. Hackers apparently access PayPal information and try to rip you off.

Bob

[rrinker]

I've been buying and sellign on eBay for a few years now, almost always with PayPal. I have NEVER had any trouble with my payPal account, or any problems completing transactions.

Those emails are NOT about PayPal, and have nothing to do with PayPal. And they are ALWAYS 100% phoney, just delete them. You'd get those even WITHOUT a PayPal account. I get ones supposedly from banks that a) I don;t have an account with and b) don't even have offices within 100 miles of me.

My latest favorite is the one supposedly from the "System Administrator" of my domain. Oh really now? Well, my registered domain is registeed by ME and 100% hosted on my own servers. And I don't even have a user name "System Administrator" It's not impossible to track these people down - if we actually DID something about these low-lifes who keep WASTING our bandwidth, the internet might improve. And that's EXACTLY what this junk is - THEFT of services by wasting everyone's bandwidth and procssing time. I don;t get much spam, but that's because my spam blocking software gets it - that means it DOES waste my bandwidth being delivered to my mail server, and wastes my server processing and discarding it.

--Randy

[areibel]

[quote\]
Note that you need to find and display the Paypal logo WITHOUT the credit card symbols to make this ok. If you use the default Paypal logo, you MUST accept credit cards or risk suspension. You can look that up on the Seller's board, there's a thread near the top that explains the appropriate use of the Paypal logo in your auctions.

[sebamat]

Being a US train fan in Europe, only Paypal allowed me to buy things on ebay. And no problems up to now (ca1000$ spent) all in intercontinental transactions.

My only experience with money transfer was a huge hassle: it took me a full 45 min to have the clerk make it right (I was probably the first one sending money from this office). The post address the seller gave me was not the one he routinely used , so it took 3 weeks (and 4 mails) before the payment was received. And all the fun cost me 20sfr = 15$ against 0 if he had paypal.

Clearly the seller will all the money of the sale price , but also I would like to pay only the selling price and not to have to add another 15% on the top of the 10-15$ S&H I have talready o add to any selling price.

Giving my credit card nr: forget it! I never saw you, I do not even know were you are.....
So that is: no paypal, you will be without my money

seabstiano

[davekelly]

CraigN,

Hmmmm. I wouldn't mind paying a little more in the shipping and handling for those sellers that accept paypal. Just like I don't mind paying a bit more when I buy something at the 7-11. Convenience.

[johncolley]

The other half of the story: Many if not most of the online vendors work on a very narrow margin. for a lot of these vendors the 3% bite they get from PP really digs into their margin almost to the point that they make nothing from the sale. I want them to stay in business so I'll stick to money orders.

[Anonymous]

I've used PP as both a buyer and a seller. Never had a problem.

From a seller standpoint, anything that makes it easier for a customer to buy from you is a plus. The fees are comparable to what I get charged for taking credit cards.

I can't believe some of the ads I see on EBay where a joker sets so many restrictions on payment that you just click on by.

Mike Tennent

[samgolden]

I used to pay with Money Orders, and then opened a PayPal account, and that is all I use now. I only buy, not sell. I haven't had any problems with Pay Pall, but I have had Emails from both Pay Pal and Numerous others that want me to confirm my Information, or status of my account. If they are from Pay Pal, I usually forward them to Pay Pal's Security section and they will confirm that they are not from them and thank me for sending it to them so that they can try to investigate where/who is sending them. I also get Emails that want me to confirm my address and email so that they can send me a gift/Prize/check for 10K, or what else you can think of. I have a Junk mail filter and a Spam filter, that catches these emails but I still have to delete them myself.
I get from 15 to 100 of these every day/time I log on to the internet and check my email. I check the sender while they are loading (dial up) and click on my tools menu and select "delete mail marked as junk" and they are gone. It is pretty good about not marking what I want to read. If it skips any I mark it as junk and after a few times, it catches those too.
Sam

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by trainchris

I used e-bay to sell my truck,sold fast and for the money i wanted.BUT PAY PAL RIPPED ME OFF SOMETHING BAD!! The buyer paid $1000.00 with a credit card into my pay pal account and the rest in cash when picked up truck. One week after the sale pay pal removed the $1000.00 out of my account and gave me no reason for it. I have been trying to get back my money from them for the last three years now. Still do not know the reason the $$ was taken out. DO NOT USE PAY PAL THEY'RE NO GOOD!!!![}:)][V][:(!] I now list all my things as money order only! I know this is rare but I have heard alot of bad things about them. I just do not trust them with my money now.

Hi,

Sorry to hear of that. I would say this is only partially paypal's fault as the way the payment was structured, it is very likely that the buyer was out to defraud. One way they can do it is to report a non-receipt of item and if there is nothing you have to show delivery (as it was an arranged pick-up), Paypal reverses the funds. I have been using paypal and ebay for 2++ years now. Whenever I sell a train costing 100++ and the seller deliberately not-ask for insurance, I'll pay another US$2 out of my own pocket for registered airmail. Of course the buyer doesn't know and true enough some of these guys complain of non-receipt of item. All I had to do was to email a scan of the receipt and I never heard from them again. If it was a genuine case of lost items, I'm sure they'll ask if I can trace it with the postal service :-)

Regards.

[trainchris]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Oriental_Express

QUOTE: Originally posted by trainchris

I used e-bay to sell my truck,sold fast and for the money i wanted.BUT PAY PAL RIPPED ME OFF SOMETHING BAD!! The buyer paid $1000.00 with a credit card into my pay pal account and the rest in cash when picked up truck. One week after the sale pay pal removed the $1000.00 out of my account and gave me no reason for it. I have been trying to get back my money from them for the last three years now. Still do not know the reason the $$ was taken out. DO NOT USE PAY PAL THEY'RE NO GOOD!!!![}:)][V][:(!] I now list all my things as money order only! I know this is rare but I have heard alot of bad things about them. I just do not trust them with my money now.

Hi,

Sorry to hear of that. I would say this is only partially paypal's fault as the way the payment was structured, it is very likely that the buyer was out to defraud. One way they can do it is to report a non-receipt of item and if there is nothing you have to show delivery (as it was an arranged pick-up), Paypal reverses the funds. I have been using paypal and ebay for 2++ years now. Whenever I sell a train costing 100++ and the seller deliberately not-ask for insurance, I'll pay another US$2 out of my own pocket for registered airmail. Of course the buyer doesn't know and true enough some of these guys complain of non-receipt of item. All I had to do was to email a scan of the receipt and I never heard from them again. If it was a genuine case of lost items, I'm sure they'll ask if I can trace it with the postal service :-)

Regards.

That could be the reason and I never thought of this till now. I will wright them again asking if that is the reason, if so I have a signed receipt from the buyer when he came to pick up the truck showing he took possession of it. Thanks again.

[MudHen_462]

I have used PayPal both as a buyer and a seller over 200 times, and I have never had a negative experience. I cannot say that for non-PayPal transactions.

Bob