What Happened to MTH HO Scale?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by nblum

"MTH has been the victim far more than the aggresor in these conflicts I can assure you."

Their claims against Lionel are largely without merit, despite the court finding. They've been profiting from Lionel's name, reputation and history for over a decade, without permission. The question is whether they can change their culture and approach and become a good citizen of the model railroading industry in the future. Their record to date is terrible, but there are signs they are learning from their defeats. Time will tell.

I've been reading these forums for a long time, but never posted till now. This comment struck me funny. And I have to disagree that their claim is without merit. While MTH is no white knight to the industry, Lionel was ALSO playing dirty. They just got caught. A large cost of productions is research and blueprints, which is what MTH Claims was stolen, and was found to be true. Lionel got caught with their pants down and MTH was able to prove it.

Emotions seem to be the largest driving factor for many posts, especially the "boycott" this company and lets shun that company. Luckily we have enough different options we have the right to choose what we want. If you are going to get emotional over something, find out all the facts you can before you make your decision. I know that can be very hard to do, and often times little unbias information is available. You never know, MTH has been innovative in the past, maybe they'll continue that path. Now if they could just get a handle on the delivering on time thing.

[nblum]

"Lionel got caught with their pants down and MTH was able to prove it. "

Actually this was a civil case where nothing is "proven" beyond a reasonable doubt, as in criminal cases. The standard is that, on balance, the jury needs to believe that the preponderance of the evidence is that something "happened" that was alleged as illegal by the plaintiff. This could, in theory, be 51 to 49% in favor :), not exactly "proven. "

MTH, in my opinion, and many others, did not prove that what was misappropriated were trade secrets, nor that these trade secrets were actually used to produce Lionel locomotives, nor that the financial reverses MTH suffered during the late 1990s and early 2000s were primarily due to these events. These contentions are why I say their case has little merit, although they managed to convince a jury that it did, obviously. ;)

[3railguy]

QUOTE: "Lionel got caught with their pants down and MTH was able to prove it. "

MTH walks around with their pants down reverse engineering and copying anything and everything they can legally get away with and pounce on anyone who may be doing the same. The latest copy job is the new coupler design Lionel came out with in 02. Lionel developed the first sounds, remote control, and cruise control before MTH and MTH trys to convince people they "invented" it all and revolutionized the O gauge hobby. It's no wonder they are so hated with these half truths. They think we were born yesterday.

[AntonioFP45]

John,

In being fair, I remember reading the info that it was confirmed that a man in Korea stole some plans for a locomotive and eventually confessed. You and others here probably have more info on that.

MTH and Lionel had been firing torpedoes at each other for years since Mike Wolf left Lionel and formed MTH. Seems like we all understand that.

But I think most of us in the HO and N scale arenas don't want to see our hobby attacked by an MTH vs. Lionel styled war, which is exactly how the QSI lawsuit and the threats of litigation to other DCC manufacturers using BEMF have been viewed.

I'm looking forward to the day the QSI lawsuit is finally decided, one way or the other..[sigh]

[davekelly]

It is interesting this MTH/Lionel debate. I saw some MTH items at the San Diego Model Railroad Museum (way cool place!!!!) which were basically copies of Lionel stuff down to the little label, which of course said MTH. Legal or not legal. Right or not right. Fair or not fair. These are all different. You can be as legally right as you can get, but folks still won't like you. You can be illegal as all get out, but folks love you.

I've had numerous clients sit down and contemplate this very thing - balance what they would gain from legal action when they were 100 percent in the right against what possible damage would result in either a business relationship, family relationship, neighbor relationship or general PR in the community. It's meaningless to win the battle but lose the war.

[jnichols]

As this topic has run it's course in my mind, lest we not forget that all the fanatical rantings about how not purchasing the products of a manufacturer will somehow make the hobby a better place, try to remember that these are just toys... I mean if you really want to be mad at a corporation for devious acts against humanity (or whatever floats your boat), turn on the television and watch the news.

PS> If anyone wants me, I'll be downstairs running trains. I hate the news... [:D]