Painting Passenger Cars

[AntonioFP45]

Oh boy did I have a brain fart!! I have been using a H1 aircap with a H3 mixing needle. ARGHHHHH!!!! That seems to be a huge part of the problem of getting a smooth coat of paint. I totally forgot to change the aircap last time.

Anyhow, I have applied a new coat tonight and will allow it to cure for a couple of days. Then on with the Alclad!!

Go ahead, take your punches. I deserve it.

Don't worry Csmith, no need for tar and feathering.  I see I'm not the only one that suffers from an occasional "vapor lock". 

Remember on the Alclad:  Apply thin coats, allow time between coats, spray as if you were painting long strokes with a paint brush.

Looking forward to reading of your results

[csmith9474]

Oh boy did I have a brain fart!! I have been using a H1 aircap with a H3 mixing needle. ARGHHHHH!!!! That seems to be a huge part of the problem of getting a smooth coat of paint. I totally forgot to change the aircap last time.

Anyhow, I have applied a new coat tonight and will allow it to cure for a couple of days. Then on with the Alclad!!

Go ahead, take your punches. I deserve it.

 

[AntonioFP45]

James,

Welcome Aboard

I am not familiar with the Paint and Plate method you're referring to. 

I apologize if I sound like an Alclad pitchman, but whenever I find something that, IMHO, works exceptionally well......I always enjoy passing on the info.  As for the stripe you're referring to; once you've finished applying the Alclad II (whether stainless steel or chrome), come back with a clear.  Once the clear is cured, you can apply what ever paint or decals you'd like. 

Note:  Future finish reportedly works well, but remember that if you use Alclad II Chrome, Future won't dull the finish much at all so the passenger car will look "too shiny".  So if you take this route, consider applying a thin coat of semi-gloss or satin clear to dull that finish to a realistic appearance before sealing with Future. 

CSmith, yes fingerprints can show up on Alclad if it's not cleared/sealed.  But no need to worry.  I keep it simple......If I need to move the car body for some reason, I just stick two pencils through the windows and move the shells anywhere I want, no problem.

To make it easier---------I recently cut out and shaped two pieces of white styrofoam that came from a computer box at my school.  The base is about a foot square.  I then took a smaller white rectangular styrofoam piece, shaped it with a box cutter knife so that a  passenger car shell can sit on it.  I shoved this piece, carefully into the base and wala-----Instant passenger car shell jig!  I can pick the whole thing up or move it as needed while painting, metalizing, or clear coating-----without putting my hands on the shell.  Spraying roofs, sides, and vestibule ends is a piece of cake.

 

[csmith9474]

Hi,

Names James, out Phx. way.  Model the SP and am interested in your coach paint method,  first is this Alclad similar to the old Paint & Plate we used years age for model airplane?  Second how would you deal with a needed red name board stripe? 

Thanks for the help.

James 

I don't honestly know what Paint and Plate is (Antonio may know of this), but if I can get this right, the Alclad looks like it will come out nice.

 

As far as the red stripe goes, the next train I am doing is going to be a late fifties Sunset Limited, and Microscale sells the stripe decals.

Edit: BTW, good to meet you, and welcome to the forum.

[James Ervin]

Hi,

Names James, out Phx. way.  Model the SP and am interested in your coach paint method,  first is this Alclad similar to the old Paint & Plate we used years age for model airplane?  Second how would you deal with a needed red name board stripe? 

Thanks for the help.

James 

[csmith9474]

The web site below is for the Alcad paint.  It is very touchy to handle as finger prints will ruin you work until the final overcoat is applied, but the results can be very good.  It is extremely shiny but so is the finish on any platic plating until it is dull-coated or toned down.

 

http://www.alclad2.com/alclad-home.html

Thanks for posting the additional info. I was planning on handling the painted bodies with cotton gloves until I sealed them. I think I am going to test with Future as a sealant.

 

[CAZEPHYR]

The web site below is for the Alcad paint.  It is very touchy to handle as finger prints will ruin you work until the final overcoat is applied, but the results can be very good.  It is extremely shiny but so is the finish on any platic plating until it is dull-coated or toned down.

 

http://www.alclad2.com/alclad-home.html

[csmith9474]

As stupid as this may sound, I didn't even realize Floquil produced a gloss black. I know how to handle Floquil just fine!! Thanks.

[AntonioFP45]

I am still working on getting a smooth, gloss black base coat. I am going to try to find the Alclad black primer and test with that. It seems there are complaints about how good it is, but you would think they would make the best primer for THEIR finishes.

If all else fails, I do have Floquil bright silver on stand-by!

Csmith, I may have mentioned this before but if you don't want to use acrylics you can get very smooth finishes with Floquil Gloss Black as well as Scale Coat II's high gloss black.  The key was just thinning it to the point where it layed on smoothly.   I had to play with the black a bit also. If the air pressure is too high..the paint will look too dry and rough.  Too low and the paint is gobby and runs. 

Don't give up........just a little patience!  The results are worth it.

 

[csmith9474]

I am still working on getting a smooth, gloss black base coat. I am going to try to find the Alclad black primer and test with that. It seems there are complaints about how good it is, but you would think they would make the best primer for THEIR finishes.

If all else fails, I do have Floquil bright silver on stand-by!

 

[AntonioFP45]

Boy, is this ever becoming  a process. It didn't quite come out the way I expected, but I think I know where I went wrong. I was using too small of a mixing needle on the airbrush, and the "primer" went on a little rough. Still tryin'.......

CSmith,

That's good in a way though.  Better that any problems be caught at the primer stage.  Sounds like you're already got it licked.

Please, keep us updated with your progress!

[csmith9474]

Boy, is this ever becoming  a process. It didn't quite come out the way I expected, but I think I know where I went wrong. I was using too small of a mixing needle on the airbrush, and the "primer" went on a little rough. Still tryin'.......

[csmith9474]

I am trying the Alclad 2 stainless steel this weekend. The first process I am trying is the one using Krylon gloss black as a primer and Future as a sealer. I will post the results with pics Sunday (hopefully). Wish me luck.

I am also breaking in a brand new Paasche H with this project, too. I guess I may as well bring it in big. The owner of the LHS that I go to is also awaiting the results to see if he will start stocking Alclad, so I hope I get this right!!

[AntonioFP45]

Thanks for that link ATrain.

Always good to look at other options as well.

My only "personal" critique of the SNJ product is that buffing with colored powders may be required; which I'm not too fond of. This is why I wasn't crazy about "Paint Metallizing" in the past. With the Alclad II, it's now easier than ever.

[Anonymous]

Take a look at this site and what they sell. Looks good to me.................... http://www.snjmodelproducts.com/examples.htm

[csmith9474]

I googled Alclad and came up with this.....

http://www.swannysmodels.com/Alclad.html
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/tnt1/001-100/TNT009_Alclad/TNT009.htm

Some great info with great results. I like the look of the first guys planes. It is interesting what he had to say about the primer, though. I would never have thought to use Krylon gloss black and seal decals with Future. I suppose the results speak for themselves!

Has anybody had any problems with the primer they have used?

[AntonioFP45]

CRBlues,
Yes Floquil Bright Silver is nice for headlight simulations.......but one can go an "extra step" by drilling out "cast-on" silver lights and replacing them with MV Lenses which look very realistic.

ModelTrainman,
The Bare Metal Foil also works also and has been around for a couple of decades. Years ago MRR featured an F unit treated with the Bare Metal Foil, which was a real beauty!

However, for me, I just didn't want the hassle of going through the steps with applying the material from the foil, when with Alclad I just basically dump it in the jar and shoot and get just as good or better results in a fraction of the time. Since my hobby times are limited, I look for processes that work well and are time savers. With the Alclad II series paints, I got the best of both qualities.

Peace.

[ModelTrainman]

What about that Bare Metal Foil stick-on stuff!

[nbrodar]

I use Polly S Stainless Steel or Aluminum. They don't shine like the Alclad does, but do have a pleasent weathered metallic sheen to it. The paint is a more fragile then regular Polly S, so take care when handling. I used glosscote to seal the cars.

Nick

[AntonioFP45]

Hey guys, something I forgot to mention.......

If you should decide to try out the Alclad Chrome method there are two versions. One is "Chrome" and the other is "Chrome for Lexan".

Use only the Chrome which is designed for styrene and similar plastics. The Stock Number is: ALC 107.

So go ahead and experiment! Try the Chrome and Stainless Steels versions.

Peace and High Greens

[emdgp92]

Tamiya's "flat aluminum" is pretty close to weathered stainless steel. This stuff is actually a plastic-compatible lacquer. However, even though you don't *need* a primer for it, I still primer my plastic cars before I spray them. That way, there's less risk of chipping the paint.

[AntonioFP45]

Hi guys,

Check out this link: http://www.alclad2.com/alclad-home.html

Impressive work by modelers, especially on that DC10!

Enjoy!

[kicksvette]

Just checked the Alclad website and found a hobbyshop about a mile from my house that sells the stuff. Gonna pick some up and give i a try. Sounds like it will be just what I need for my N E-5 shells with a Zephyr scheme. Need to look as shiny as the 9911 out at IRM.

[csmith9474]

It is good to see someone else modeling the hi levels. I am doing a late 50's El Cap/Super Chief, and has it ever been an project so far. I have found a seemingly endless supply of the Detail Associates detail kits for the TSP hi levels. I wanted the yokes more than anything. I have also been able to acquire a set of the Microscale hi level decals. It should be interesting to see how the paint turns out as I am using a mix of brass car sides, Walther's, and TSP hi levels. There are also some Soho cars mixed in there as well. I hope a good primer will get me going with the plated brass. I want to get this done so I can move on to the Budd Sunset Limited. If not for Train Station Products I couldn't get half the modeling done that I do.

[jimrice4449]

I'll second (or third) the Alclad. I did a Santa Fe high level El Capitan train (10 cars worth) and got great results. I used Tamaya gloss black for the base and Floquil Crytal Cote for the sealer. I went with stainless steel' One thing to watch for is to have the first car you do where you can see it as you do subsequent cars. The final appearance depends on the number of coats and you'll get better results if you've got a visible sample instead of relying on memory.

[Anonymous]

i just picked up a bottle of floquil bright silver. it is good for headlight lens simulations. although it is a very bright silver, it may work for the stainless steel look you want. but test it first. good luck!!

matt arentzen,- northeastrailworks.com

[AntonioFP45]

Hello Rotorranch,

Alclad II Chrome is shiny, however, it dulls down after the gloss clear coat is applied and dulls down even more when a semi-gloss or satin clear finish is applied. I have successfully experimented with two of my HO Metroliners. One car I left in chrome while the 2nd car I dulled it down with clear. Difference is like night and day! When I finish 4 car set, I'll post the pictures on this forum. They will be in Penn Central.

You're correct about the black being recommended, however, as I pointed out above it is too dark for HO passenger cars (not as noticeable in N scale). The high-gloss grays are what work well in this case.

Don't take my word for it, though. Check out the Model Railroader Magazine article I mentioned above. Those N scale RDC cars look incredibly realistic!

Peace out.

[Rotorranch]

Alclad Chrome may be too shiny, depending on what you are trying to accomplish. Alclad also has stainless steel paint, as well. Not as shiny as the Chrome. Might be what you are looking for.

I sell the Alclad paints at my hobby shop, and have had great results from all the Alclad I have sprayed.Depending on the effect desired, will determine the base color needed. Black base color is the recommended (by Alclad) color for their Metal color finishes. Other base colors will give you different results. Don't be afraid to experiment on scrap materials.

Your results may vary! [;)]

Rotor

[AntonioFP45]

Thank you.

I can't take the credit though. It was the July MRR, 2003, where a modeler used this method to redo a pair of N scale RDCs. They looked great!

Suggestion:

Though it costs extra I think it's worth the effort to experiment on a piece of scrap styrene or a "scrapper" model railroad car like an old Tyco boxcar or caboose to check results before doing the passenger cars. The secret to the Alclad II Chrome effect is THE UNDERCOAT, which is your foundation. So I experimented with various shades of dark gray. I used an HO Tyco F unit shell that I got free at a train show.

BTW: The reason for putting on "thin coats" is due to Alclad being a "hot" paint product. Put it on too heavy and the plastic may be attacked. That's why it's important to let the gray "foundation" coat cure properly as it also acts as a barrier between the Alclad and the bare plastic. Don't worry, though. Just take your time.

Check out this link and look at the results on the test panels. George McLeod used various metalizers.

http://www.largescaleplanes.com/tips/MikeMcleod/NMF/nmf.html

I think you'll be impressed with the test panels. Just my opinion, but I think Alclad II gives an incredibly realistic Stainless Steel appearance!

Let us know what you do, whether you use this or another metalizing system.

Peace and High Greens!

[csmith9474]

I heard of people using the ALCLAD before and was a little apprehensive as I wasn't sure of the application method nor the result. I will definately give this a shot now. I typically don't buy anything painted so I won't have to fool with that step. I detail before painting so it makes prepping the cars for painting a pain, but I have tried detailing post paint and it can really mess things up. Thanks a million for everyone's help, with special credit to AntonioFP45.