Hello GPaine,
I think there was a similar question posted on another thread a month or so back.
I prefer to metalize the entire passenger car shell, apply a gloss clear, and then mask off for the stripe. To be on the safe side, give the clear (whether solvent or acrylic based) a couple of days to cure thoroughly.
I will be using this method for one E&B Valley passenger car kit that I'm going to refinish in New Haven.
High Greens
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
A number of RR in my area had color stripes along the windows of their PS SS passenger cars. B&M used maroon, MEC used maroon later changed to green and BAR used blue.
When in the paint process would be the best time to add the stripe? Paint the color after surface prep is done and mask it off for the Alclad or complete the Alclad to the clearcoat finish then mask the car and paint the color?
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
Charlie wrote: Hey Smitty, are you still using Alclad II Chrome? I will be attempting to paint a car with it this weekend. My first car and attempt.Charlie
Hey Smitty, are you still using Alclad II Chrome? I will be attempting to paint a car with it this weekend. My first car and attempt.
Charlie
I will be starting a new passenger train project after the New Year (late '50s Sunset Limited), and will be trying the Alclad again. I have a couple of bottles of the stainless and gloss black primer. Please post your results and process.
MP 53 on the BNSF Topeka Sub
The Future starts to dry out really quickly. I could get about two coats on maybe three cars before it started to become a problem. It will also clog the airbrush fairly quick as well. After setting the brush down for a couple of minutes, it would be clogged. The way I would "fix" that would be to turn the air pressure up momentarily, just enough to push through.
As far as cleaning went, I just used the Floquil thinner to clean up (I know that is the expensive route, but I have a lot of it). I would highly reccomend that you completely break the airbrush down and clean the needle and nozzle.
The only problem I have had with it was inexperience. The first time I worked with it, it was a bumpy road, but with practice it was all good.
It takes a bit of work and paractice to work with this stuff, but the results are worth it. It covers the decals really nice, and it is really hard to see the decal edges.
Edit: Just like any other airbrush use, I would highly suggest using gloves. I use the yellow rubber gloves. A mask is really good idea too. I made the mistake of spraying Future without a mask, and it will hit you quick.
Smitty,
Can you tell us more about your experience with Future? How long did it stay fresh in your airbrush jar before it started gunking up? Did you flush your airbrush with alcohol/water afterwards? Any potential problems with it?
AntonioFP45 wrote: Don't feel bad. I was shocked the first time I learned of hobbyists using Future Floor Finish for sealing models. Then it made sense.....it's an acrylic product. So it would definetly work well over a number of paint products that modelers use. I have not tried it yet, but I'm picking up a bottle on my next trip to "wally world". From what I've read, thinning is not required. But to be safe, I'll play it safe and experiment with it on some throw-away plastic panels that I have in my scrap pile.
Don't feel bad. I was shocked the first time I learned of hobbyists using Future Floor Finish for sealing models. Then it made sense.....it's an acrylic product. So it would definetly work well over a number of paint products that modelers use.
I have not tried it yet, but I'm picking up a bottle on my next trip to "wally world". From what I've read, thinning is not required. But to be safe, I'll play it safe and experiment with it on some throw-away plastic panels that I have in my scrap pile.
You definately don't need to thin it, but as you stated you were going to do, you definately want to do some test strokes on something (I even used my rubber gloves to test with a couple of times). Your airbrush will "gunk up" on you fairly quickly as well.
I have not tried it yet, but I'm picking up a bottle on my next trip to "wally world". From what I've read, thinning is not required. But I'll play it safe and experiment with it on some throw-away plastic panels that I have in my scrap pile.
G Paine wrote: csmith9474 wrote: I used Future to seal that Perhaps I missed something earlier in this discussion, what is Future?
csmith9474 wrote: I used Future to seal that
I used Future to seal that
Perhaps I missed something earlier in this discussion, what is Future?
Click on this link: http://www.floorcareproducts.com/floor-finish/index.asp
Available in a number of grocery and retail chain stores.
Hello Smitty,
I've been using a digital Kodak C613 and have taken a "slew" of photos of the Rivorossi cars that I metalized with the Alclad. The photos don't do the cars justice. The cars look good imho. Getting used to this camera is a bit frustrating (I'm used to a traditional 35mm SLR camera).
Re: Fisheye problems. That's often caused by silicone or oil based contaminants present on the surface.
Smitty, if you spray a satin coat on the underbody, the silver will in all likelyhood turn a gray shade. Floquil's Platimun Mist is the best color to use when matching the colors of all cars.
Check out this link as well. It's a rather interesting twist on using the Alclad:
http://www.swannysmodels.com/Alclad.html
Also my friend, please update the "Easy Sharpening Up of Passenger Car Interiors..." thread with photos of your interiors when you finish. I'm going to leave the forum for a while but I may be back in a month or so.
God Bless, Peace, and high greens
Til then, AntonioFP45 over and out.
Check out this link: (also brings back memories of the old forum format!)
http://www.scaleautomag.com/sca/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=32725
Peace
I have lost the battle, but not the war. I haven't been able to get a consistent coat with the Alclad, and am also getting fish eyes now. Trying to tweak this stuff is really holding up progress, and I have gone to the good ole' Floquil "Bright Silver". I was able to get quite a bit of painting done finally, and it looks good.
I haven't given up yet, though. I am going to be doing the Man o War (Central of Georgia) for a friend, and I think I will give it another shot with that train after much more experimenting.
I have always had good results with the Floquil, and with as many cars that I need to paint right now, I just don't have the time to fool around with the Alclad. I will post pics with the results with the Floquil as soon as I complete a car. I am still going to use the Future for a sealer. I am guessing that the Future would make a nice coat for decaling as well (two coats, one for decals, and one for a final finish).
I am going to definately weather the trucks a bit. With this train, the Hi Levels would have been about 3 years old and the single level cars (Palms, Pines, Regals, Pleasure Dome, and diner)would have been about 8-9 years old, so as you pointed out, the underbodies would have some "road grime".
I always wondered about the head end cars as far as weathering goes. I would assume they didn't make it through the washers as often as the revenue cars. I would think that they would sometimes be at an REA facility before being switched into the train, which would mean a little additional weathering (VERY light) for those particular cars, especially RPOs.
I know in the late '50s that the SF kept their pax equipment immaculate, which leads me to another question. I know that you are well aware of the silver overspray on the lower bodies of the diesels, such as the F-7s and FP-45s (boy I can't wait for the Athearn re-release). Do you know if the Santa Fe sprayed the trucks of their passenger cars in the same manner? I have never seen any overspray on a passenger car bodies in pics, nor do I plan on modeling this if so, but I am just curious if anyone know.
Edit: I am just really excited to get this train done so I can move on to the late '50s Sunset Limited!! With the release of the Precision Craft PAs, this should be a fun project as well.
Looking good! These cars are going to be show stoppers.
Re: Sealing the silver. You probably already know that even when cured, tiny amounts of silver paint pigments can flake off when handled often. However, I get the impression that you handle your models with "TLC". Sealing is not required like it is for the metalizer. However, sealing is not a bad idea, especially if you decide to weather the undersides.
Even in their "heydays" streamlined passenger cars still managed to have water streaks and grime on the undersides.
While waiting for the Alclad, I have been painting underbodies. I also painted 15 pairs of passenger trucks (YIKES!!!!!). I think I may bring the silver on the underbodies down a little with a satin clear coat. It is Floquil. The mix is about 50% Old Silver, 25% Engine Black, and 25% thinner. I am trying to match (or at least get in the ball park) the finish on the underbodies of Ajin, Samhongsa, and Sam Tech brass passenger cars. I am going to have a little brass mixed in this train, so I am looking for a little continuity.
Edit: Is there any reason other than appearance to seal the silver on the underbody with some sort of clear coat?
I am still waiting for the Alclad that I ordered to arrive. I ordered from Horizon Hobbies (yeah, the Athearn people) last week. I think I mentioned before that I am in the same situation with the owner of the LHS I go to. Hopefully by the end of this week I will have a complete car.
If the black shows through, then yes you just need a bit more of the metalizer.
Note, if your black undercoat is rough, then some of the metalizer will be absorbed so you'll wind up having to spray more Alclad. If you have to thin the black a bit more to get it to lay smooth.......go for it! The smoother the black, the less Alclad you'll need.
I understand your wanting to use the Alclad brand, but again Floquil Gloss Black and Scale Coat Gloss black will work just as well. Both products can be thinned an extra 15% to 25% over recommendation with no negative effects as long as you apply them in thin coats and allow each coat to dry.
Your cars look beautiful. If you can, take one to an LHS and compare it to a BLI passenger car, which is also metalized. You'll notice that the BLI car's metalized finish looks a tad "yellower".
BTW: When you are completely finished, please take some closeup shots and post them here.
I'm trying to persuade my LHS to regularly stock the Alclad line and would like to show him the work of other modelers. Quite a number of customers have purchased Rivorossi streamlined passenger cars in the past and, IMHO, this metalizer provides a nice and easy opportunity to really make those cars look sharp.
Thanks!
Hope to see you post more photos of your work,
As far as prep goes, I of course washed everything with Dawn. I then used a tack cloth to remove dust. I used an H3 needle for the primer at about15psi. I am having trouble getting a good, smoth coat with the primer though. It is the Alclad Gloss Black primer to be used specifically for the Stainless Steel and a couple of other shades. I did about two coats and it just isn't as smooth as I would like it.
I then sparayed on the Stainless Steel with the same air brush and air setting. I did two coats of that and thought that was sufficient. If you look back at the Budd baggage car roof, I used Future to seal that (two coats), and the Future seemed to cause the black to show through somehow, although I am extremely satisfied with the finish using the Future. I went to the LHS at lunch to ask the guys there for their opinion, and they pointed that out to me. They made a good point by saying that it looks almost as if I had oversprayed a little bit of black over the stainless. I think that is just a matter of applying a couple more coats of metalizer.
Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Edit: I just referred to your first post this thread and think that if this doesnt work out for me, I will try the Chrome instead of the Stainless Steel with a gray primer.
csmith9474 wrote: Here is some stuff before the Future is applied.
Here is some stuff before the Future is applied.
Csmith,
Wow! Great work!
Question: Did you apply a clear on top of it? In case its too shiny, this would kill the shine slightly and give it a realistic look. You could then seal it with Future.
The more you use Alclad, the better you become.
Could you tell us the steps you took? (prep, airbrush settings, etc,)
Did the black go on smoothly for you? If the black is ultra smooth, so will be the metalizer.
Thanks for sharing those gorgeous photos! Looking forward to more.
Sorry you're having a hard time finding Alclad. Here in Tampa, Hobby Town carries it. It seems to be increasing in popularity.
Here is the first "victim". I used the Alclad gloss black primer and Alclad 2 stainless steel. I sealed the finish with Future. The roof is from a Walther's Budd baggage.