There was a really good one up around Indy known as Metzler's. Nice guy, nice place. age caught up to him.
-Morgan
Is the hobby moving away from the old hobby shop sales model -- absolutely!
Does that mean the hobby will die -- nope. All hobbies ebb and flow, and we've been in an ebb for a couple decades -- and now thanks to things like the internet and popular hollywood movies like Polar Express, the hobby growth is flat or slightly increasing at the moment.
Model railroading is rapidly becoming a historical modeling hobby. Model ship builders and model airplane builders all model mostly prototypes from history that people don't routinely encounter every day. Yes, it's true people still travel by ship -- and that air travel is common -- so even though the prototypes aren't the same, the basic mode is there to spark the initial interest in youngsters.
If you follow what's going on in the rail industry, then you know that high-speed rail transportation is poised to make a comback. It's going great guns in Japan and Europe, with the Chunnel train now booking 60% of all Britain to France passenger miles. Japan is interested in expanding their bullet train operation. The US has the Acela Express, with more high-speed rail projects on the drawing board.
If you roll the clock ahead 20 years, it could be the young in the US will again be familiar with rail transportation as riders, and like model airplanes are today -- will get interested in model trains. Once the interest is there, they will discover the fascinating area of historical railroad modeling. In model airplanes, there is a vibrant and enthusiastic following for WWII aircraft modeling. I see the steam-to-diesel era as remaining popular in model railroading well into the future.
Will every kid want a trainset for Christmas as was popular in the 50s and early 60s? No, but that's when the hobby was something of a popular fad. What's happened is the hobby moved back to its more natural home of enthusiasts rather than a general public fad in the 70s and 80s.
But thanks to things like the internet, the hobby won't die. You would have thought slot cars died after they were a public fad in the 1960s, but not so! The internet has given the slot car hobby a real shot in the arm and it's doing better than it's ever done since the fad died out in the 70s.
Joe Fugate Modeling the 1980s SP Siskiyou Line in southern Oregon
CNJ831 wrote:QUOTE: Originally posted by FiremanLAill get back to you but its not even arguable on "'published data"...tsk..tsk...the plethora of products is its own obvious answer........manufacturers follow the money.......more manufacturers+more products=a much bigger market......im surprised one would have to prove something so de facto evident.../...once again, more manufacturers+more products=biggermarket.......if the dollars werent there the manufacturers would be building widgets....as near as i can tell they are elbowing their way past each other to deliver new product.....Fireman, I think you need to step back and look at the actual situation more honestly. Your statement that manufacturers are elbowing their way past each other to deliever new products and that this is an era of "bigmarket " (profits) for the hobby are well off the mark.If you examine the current listing of manufacturers in the 2005 and past Walthers, you'll find that there hasn't been a new major player entering the hobby in more years than I care to count - hardly a sign of hobby prosperity. You statement that "manufacturers follow the money" is correct...and no important new ones are entering model railroading! In fact, even the secondstring companies haven't changed very much in the past decade (although a number of longtime examples have dropped out). It would appear that the actual view of things is that start-up costs are too great and the hobby's future far too iffy for anyone fre***o enter the marketplace in a big way today. Another sign of a lack of great prosperity in the hobby is that a number of the existing companies had to change their ways or face going out of business because the hobby's economic realities were in decline, not expansion. Look at Atlas and Life-Like. For years they were among the high volume suppliers of cheap department store trains. As that market vanished both changed to supplying serious modelers with small numbers of quality locomotives. Model Power was in the same boat but didn't alter direction enough (they did take a stab at it) and they now a very minor player in the hobby.While it is true we are seeing more new products per year, almost all of these are done in ever diminishing limited production runs and when the item is gone in a couple of months, it's pretty much gone. In the past their profits allowed most companies to have large, stabile, product lines such that the hobbyist could purchase any item at any time. Today, at any given time there are probably LESS items in actual numbers available across the hobby then previously, not more. While prices have gone up, the number units available has gone down dramatically, so we are hardly looking at an era of the "bigmarket" in the hobby. Relating this more to the thread's original subjectline, we all wi***he hobby was growing and expanding. Unfortunately, the dramatic, steady, decline of hobby shops tells quite a different story. Yes, the Internet has certainly cut deeply into their market but their decline reflects much more than that. I can not image that In the future many people will be introduced to our hobby strictly via the Internet. Hobby shops were always the means of exposing new people to model railroading and it kept our hobby thriving for many decades. I'm very much afraid that when the LHS finally vanishes completely, it will seal the hobby's fate as well.CNJ831
QUOTE: Originally posted by FiremanLAill get back to you but its not even arguable on "'published data"...tsk..tsk...the plethora of products is its own obvious answer........manufacturers follow the money.......more manufacturers+more products=a much bigger market......im surprised one would have to prove something so de facto evident.../...once again, more manufacturers+more products=biggermarket.......if the dollars werent there the manufacturers would be building widgets....as near as i can tell they are elbowing their way past each other to deliver new product.....
Good assessment.
The decline and decay of this hobby/LHS also means that the value of trains will decline..fewer buyers with fewer dollars.
I suspect that we will see a serious decline in prices on collectibles in the future...who will want them?
TMT
I have lived in Dixon, IL for the last 7 years and I just got back into the hobby after 20 years. Our LHS was sold when the ol'man (Dave) wanted to retire. So some kid took it over and bought out all of his stock. The kid seemed more interested in selling Nextel than anything else and eventually went bust.
The kid sold the shop back to Dave but lost the storefront. So Dave is selling from the basement of the original shop where the 40X70 foot layout still exists, and is only open for a couple of hours 3 days a week.
It is a bummer because he can't get back into selling Athearns, as Horrizon wants you to be able to support a certain amount of buisness per month as well as have a certain amount in stock at all times. He can move the required buisness but doesn't have the resorces to purchase/hold the stock.
I wish I had the cash to partner up with him (silent partner) and get a storefront by the new Walmart and get his hobby shop up and running again but I am just a working stiff with a wife, 4 kids, 2 mortgages, and a dog. I am lucky enough to be able to get back into the hobby as it is.
In my area in southern Ontario one of my fav. local shops is thinking about closing down.
Reasons
1. depleting customer base
2. not enough local guys supporting him
And just to put something in perspective every year I buy a lot of model trains, some years as high 15k CAD, its all come from local hobby shops, unless the odd brass piece or rare kit. I support local businesss, because without we would not have the services through tax collection and job growth and support.
As pointed out earlier, the GM example. Why scream we are losing jobs, when your buying an import!!!
CASO
Hello all,
We lost a great little hobby store in Collinsville, where they hold the N.E. Prototype Meet in late May or early June. The owner retired (losing his eyesight), it was a great place and he had some good deals and very knowledgeable to the hobby. When he closed he was selling everything at great low prices, I tried to buy as much as I could. He gave me a bunch of decals sheets and detail parts. I even bought the layout he had in the store (me and a friend are redoing and adding to it). I wish more people were like him in the business. There is another LHS in Wethersfield (Tom's Trains) he sells online and has a small store, great prices and service, how a hobby store should be!
Just my two cents!
Frank
It is not unique to Hobby Stores.
Small independent stores are a dying breed. Just as Circle K and 7-11 killed small neighborhood stores, so goes the entire retail market. Independents cannot compete with the economy of scale. I knew a woman who ran a store in a small community who used to drive to a larger community and buy products at a major chain store to mark up and sell in her store because she could buy it cheaper retail at that chain store than she could from her wholesale supplier in the quantities she needed.
A smart hobby shop would sell on the internet from his store, combining the two worlds.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
mobilman smacked it right on the head..........
I am the only person i know in my age group (30) that likes trains. All my friends do not even have a hobby. Unless going to the bar is a hobby. The internet is where I do all my shopping. The LHS here in Omaha is way over priced even compared to EBay. So really I have no other options. I still go to hobby town and hobby lobby for sales but the dedicated LHS here is for the rich and ignorant who do not care what they pay as long as they have it now. So that is that. I would have a small store and large warehouse and sell on the internet and have limited hours for the store front.
Hi,
I've read all the previous postings and have to get in my 2 mils worth.........
While a lot of factors are involved in LHS's going out of business, I firmly believe that two primary factors are central to the situation.
It is fairly obvious that young folks today are not inclined to "play with trains", as we who grew up in the '40s-early '60s were. In the last umpteen years, I've lived/worked in Chicago, Louisville, Joliet (Ill), Dallas, and Houston, and the trend is pretty much the same. The simple fact is, young folks are not clamoring to get into the hobby shops as they were years ago.
The other factor - a giant elephant sitting in the middle of our train room that can't be ignored - is the fact that pretty much anything and everything related to our hobby is readily available on the internet.
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
michaelstevens wrote: We've recently lost two more in the Philadelphia area.1/ M and G Hobbies on Rte 130 in Delran NJ -- the stock appears to still be inside -- but no-one seems to have seen or heard of George Ellenbark since October '07. I am affected by the fact that my 00 gauge County class 4-6-0 was (or probably still is) in there, to be repaired.2/ Jenkintown Hobbies on Greenwood Ave. -- the place has been cleaned out -- apparently they have gone out of business.Neither of them ever seemed to be very busy, so I guess that I shouldn't be too surprised. Just sad.
We've recently lost two more in the Philadelphia area.
1/ M and G Hobbies on Rte 130 in Delran NJ -- the stock appears to still be inside -- but no-one seems to have seen or heard of George Ellenbark since October '07. I am affected by the fact that my 00 gauge County class 4-6-0 was (or probably still is) in there, to be repaired.
2/ Jenkintown Hobbies on Greenwood Ave. -- the place has been cleaned out -- apparently they have gone out of business.
Neither of them ever seemed to be very busy, so I guess that I shouldn't be too surprised. Just sad.
Mike, Jenkintown was a huge loss to me. As a kid I bought many a balsawood windup airplanes from there. As an adult 90% of my train equipment came from there. Not to mention they were only 10 minutes from my house. Now I have to travel more than 45 minutes to Lansdale.
Empire under construction !
The early bird catches the worm.
But, the second mouse gets the cheese!
I have used the internet and the LHS and I noticed somethings in the LHS are more expensive than the internet while other items are very close if not better once you add postage & Handling to Australia. I have a look on the internet then go to the shop and compare, if the LHS is comparable I will support his business.
Nige.
Mountain Trains in Manchester New Hampshire and Modelers Junction in Salem Massachusetts both closed their doors in the fall. I still have a few good ones close to me tho.
Not to minimize the distress of others over the loss of "an old friend", (the LHS). But frankly I would love to see the LHS's near me go out of business. They are nothing but a bunch of...
I live near Lakeland Florida and just lost Alfa Hobbies my source for glue, paint, screws-nuts-washers, wood, plastic , and other good stuff. Now I must go to Orlando or Pinelas Park.
Even worse, I am an O Scaler-2 rail-that is. I much prefer to look, touch, and feel models which I cannot do by mail order or on line. The same goes for browsing for parts. As an O Scaler I must do most of my shopping at meets and shows featuring O Scale. It's a long ride from central Florida to the best shows. The same goes for my traction interests.
The Maine modelers have Norm's . I go to that area when my lobster tank needs filling. I also get to run a trolley at Kennebunk.
I'm fortunate to have a very good store, Becker's Model RR Supply close to home. I try and buy as much as possible there if I can, but the internet is very tempting. Hopefully, in a small way I am helping to keep the local LHS alive.
Joel
Well the large scale community here is in shock, we are losing one of the most popular shops (brick and moter AND online) as the owner has decided to retire.
SAN-VAL Discounters is revered in the LS circles, for great prices and selections, he decided about 2 weeks ago to post the notice, and he immediatly began selling stock at cost +10%, so while losing the store will certainly be painful, I really can't complain as I, among many, participated at the communal buffet lline feedtrough, and bought up all those things I thought I could really use, now or in the future, so at least I didnt find out by driving up to the place and finding a flower shop in its place!
PS he'll be open till he sells off everything, including the shelves.
Have fun with your trains
I give my LHS that just changed owners and went to FULL MSRP last month a year if he's lucky. I can only hope he'll close sooner. The sooner the better.
I'm now frequenting my other LHS thats only 20 minutes away and generously has been giving discounts of 20% to 30% for the last 15 years. Their new building they just built is very nice and well stocked. Kudo's to smart business people. I spoke with them just the other day and they said that many of the other owners people have been treated with disrespect and are now flocking to his shop.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.