Need a miniature drill bit that doesn't burn up after 5 uses.

[Anonymous]

I am drilling tiny (#50) holes thru some of my HO rails (see diagram 1), so I can anchor wires (diagram 2) to be soldered-on (diagram 3).

I used a standard Dremel bit but I think the metal is too soft - it stopped working after I drilled thru 5 or 6 rails. I've looked in the MicroMark catalog and found 'carbide' bits, but I don't know if they are any more reliable going thru nickel silver rail. I'm sure there are others out there as well. Are they worth a try, or should I just buy about 3 dozen of those #50 drill bits?[%-)]

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated....

[selector]

Have you tried (carefully) doing a series of "press and pulls" while drilling so that the bit doesn't get too hot? I would have thought the Dremel bit IS tungsten carbide, so other experts will have to jump in here.

[Virginian]

Most Dremels spin way too fast for the tiny bit to dissipate the heat generated drilling thru a rail. Unless you have one that goes way down in speed, better buy that bunch of bits. You can also try using some cutting oil while drilling.
You do know you don't need the hole to solder the wires to the rail, I hope.

[willy6]

I bought my miniature drill bits off the MAC TOOL TRUCK, they never broke under heavy use and will replace for free if worn or broken.

[Anonymous]

Slow the speed down a little, use a drop of light weight oil for lubrication and buy a coupla dozen bits. You can make them last longer but high speed or high carbon bits are not really much harder then the rail. I don't know if there are any high quality (cobalt or tungston) miniture drill bits. Those would last even longer if you could find them.

Why not just clip the wire to the rail to hold it while you solder it in place? It works for me.

[mondotrains]

Hi,
I've got to tell you that you're wasting your time drilling holes in the rails so that you can run the wire through them and then solder. You only need to bend the wire at a 90 degree angle and set it against the side of the rail. Then, use some flux and solder the wire....it will be a strong bond that won't pull off the rail.

In all my years as a model railroader, I've never heard anyone suggest drilling holes for attachment of the wires.

Save your drill bits for when they're really needed.
I hope this helps.

Mondo

[Anonymous]

Not only does it cause unnecessary work, if any wire or solder is sticking out of the inside of the rail, it will hit the flanges of the equipment. Especially on code 83 or shorter.

[Anonymous]

Walthers makes bits as small as 0.2 mm & are hard metal.

[mikebonellisr]

If you insist on drilling through the rail,you have to keep the bit lubricated with bees wax or light oil,use slow speed,and clear the hole often....even then you are going to use up those small bits at a high rate

[rrinker]

I would just solder the wire alongside the rail myself, rather than drill a hole. But I HAVE heard of drilling holes in the BOTTOM of a piece of rail to insert a feeder, prior to spiking the rail down.(up into the rail, not through the web) Now THAT really strikes me as excessive. But, it is 100% hidden.

-Randy

[tstage]

Ken,

Mondotrains and gsetter make a very good point.

With that said, solid carbide bits would work fine for the task you are trying to accomplish. You can run them either "dry" (no lubricant) or "wet" (with lubricant). Just don't lube it right after you've run it dry. Carbide is very hard but brittle. Quick temperature changes will shatter the bit.

I use carbide bits at work. They last and stay sharper longer than high speed drill bits. Worth the extra money in my book.

Tom

[Anonymous]

Thanx everybody for the replies.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Virginian
You do know you don't need the hole to solder the wires to the rail, I hope.

Certainly. I just go crazy trying to hold the wire to the track any other way.

QUOTE: Originally posted by bukwrm
Why not just clip the wire to the rail to hold it while you solder it in place? It works for me.

I guess you know something I don’t.... I can’t get my alligator clips to pinch the recessed part of the rails where I need to do the soldering. Does somebody make a special-shaped clip to do what you're talking about?

QUOTE: Originally posted by gsetter
Not only does it cause unnecessary work, if any wire or solder is sticking out of the inside of the rail, it will hit the flanges of the equipment.

I check for that and cut/grind away the excess if necessary.

QUOTE: Originally posted by mondotrains
In all my years as a model railroader, I've never heard anyone suggest drilling holes for attachment of the wires.

The gentleman who suggested this to me is one the of “respected old-timers” among modelers in my region, so my ‘common sense filter’ wasn’t turned on when he told me about it 3 years ago. Hmmm, come to think of it… he just hired somebody else to build a new layout for him…![swg]
. . .
So....…what I really need is a way to guarantee good electrical connections to each block of track, without having to solder the track at the joiners.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Ken, just use a pair of needle nose pliers with one hand, to press the wire against the rail, while soldering with the other. By tinning the wire and the rail first, you won't need a third hand for the solder.

I agree with those that feel drilling holes in the rail is nuts. Those small bits are best used with a pin vise.

[SpaceMouse]

I just learned to solder when I started this hobby three months ago. Soldering the wires to the rails is not that difficult. The trick really is to bend the wires to the right shape to run parallel with the track. They pre-tin the wire, heat the track, and join them. You'll get a system eventually and it will not be as difficult as it seems now.

[IRONROOSTER]

One way to hold the wire to the rail while soldering is to spike it in place.

Enjoy
Paul

[Anonymous]

Hi Ken:

I put a 90 degree bend in the wire at the end of the insulation so the bare wire is parallel to the rail and they put a slight "kink" in the wire to bend it toward the rail and then solder. As Paul points out, every once in a while I have to spike it to the rail but - with only one spike.

Have a good day
Bob

[Anonymous]

Thanx again, Bob & everybody. Looks like I just need to keep 'sperimentin' with your ideas and choose the one that works best me.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by KenLarsen

...Does somebody make a special-shaped clip to do what you're talking about?

Yes, it's called a hemostat. You can usually find them in tool stores or go look in your kids sock drawer. Also a Cross Locking Clamp will work.

QUOTE: ..I check for that and cut/grind away the excess if necessary.

Sounds tedious. That might be easy to do in G scale, but HO? If your good enough to grind the excess wire off without touching the rail head, you must be a surgeon!

QUOTE: what I really need is a way to guarantee good electrical connections to each block of track, without having to solder the track at the joiners.

You could use terminal joiners at every other joint as long as the rail is clean and the joiners tight.

[dknelson]

Don't forget that Atlas makes a railjoiner with the wire already attached to it
Dave Nelson

[Adelie]

You can also solder a wire directly to the bottom of the rail joiners (ala N-scale Atlas terminal joiners). The bottom of the joiner is flat. Put a small drop of resin on it, tin the wire, then heat the joiner while holding the wire to it, and hold it there until the solder hardens afterwards. The good is you can do these away from the track, so there is no need to worry about melting ties. It is easy, and you can make a lot of them in a fairly short time. The potential bad is that your power transmission is only as good as your connection between the rails and the joiner.

[davekelly]

I've soldered wire to the bottom of rail joiners - really easy to do, but you still have to rely on a good mechanical connection between the joiner and the rail. When solding feeders to rail, where possible I solder the wire to the bottom of the rail before installation. That way I don't have to worry about looks (soldered to the outside of the rail) or flange problems (soldered to the inside).

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by davekelly

I've soldered wire to the bottom of rail joiners - really easy to do, but you still have to rely on a good mechanical connection between the joiner and the rail.

Agreed. My problem is that I painted the sides of my rail to make it look rusted, some of the paint found its way into the joiners, and...you can pretty much guess what effect that had!

QUOTE: davekelly (continued)
When solding feeders to rail, where possible I solder the wire to the bottom of the rail before installation.

Again, excellent advice but bad timing - my track is already installed, cemented to homasote. I am trying to resurrect a sizable chunk of trackwork leftover from a layout in my previous home.

[Anonymous]

The key for drilling into soft metals or plastic is to use a sharp bit and turn it relatively slowly to reduce heating and clear out the chips. Buy a miniature jacobs chuck adapter to stick into your power screwdriver. Carbide tipped bits do work well for metal drilling.

But soldering a wire to nickel silver rail is easy. for HO scale use solid pre-tined 22 or 20 awg wire bent into a 'J' shape to fit along the outside rail flange. It is easier to bend in springiness to hold it in position if the wire is protruding up through the benchwork rather than trying to solder while track is laying on the bench. Add one drop of liquid (or paste) flux. Touch wire and side of rail with a hot iron. when flux sizzles add solder to joint, not to iron. When solder flows around the joint remove iron and blow to assist rapid cooling.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by KenLarsen

...My problem is that I painted the sides of my rail to make it look rusted

.
Ok, the terminal rail joiners are not an option. Well, it looks like soldering is the only practical solution, holes or no holes, but you need to clean the rails before soldering.
Micro-Mark sells a fine wire brush that's perfect for that task. Using hemos or other clamp to hold the wire to the rail will also work as a heat sink and protect the ties from melting. That is, of course, if you have a high wattage soldering gun and have good soldering skills.
And as far as appearence, don't over do it with the solder and when you're done, touch it up with paint. If you do a neat job it will barely be noticable unless you point it out.

[SpaceMouse]

I was just going to suggest a small wire brush on a dremel. I just sanded the tops of my rails off with a brite boy. 100+ feet in under 15 minutes--including 17 turnouts.

The wire brush on a dremel will clean a small spot for soldering.

[SPFan]

I agree that holes are NOT really needed here but if you want to drill holes you can use high speed steel drills along with oil or carbide drills which require no oil. If the drills you are using are dulling after five passes then they are probably high carbon drills, not carbide. the downside with carbide is they are extremely brittle and very easy to break when drilling by hand. Maybe your drills are breaking rather than getting dull.

Pete

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SPFan

... if you want to drill holes you can use high speed steel drills along with oil or carbide drills which require no oil...Pete

Oh yea, I forgot to mention if you do drill holes and use oil, be sure to degreese the rail before soldering.

[rexhea]

"Magic Tap" or other cutting fluids (not oil) that are used with tap&die sets are ideal for use with small drill bits.

I prefer to put a little solder on the outer side of the rail and then attach the tinned wire to the rail. I drill a hole through the sub road bed between the inside ties and then run my wires under the rail to the outside leaving some working slack. I make my solder connection and then take the slack up by pulling the wire though the hole in the sub road bed.

With paint and ballast, you will never know it's there.

REX

[Anonymous]

Thanx again people,

Looks like what I'm going to end up doing is:

1) Using a Dremel-based wierbrush on the rails to get the paint off, as Chip suggested;
2) Pre-'tinning' the rail with solder where the lead will attach;
3) Pre-'tinning' the lead;
4) Using some sort of clamp to press the lead against the rail;
5) Apply heat to fuse the lead and the rail together

Notice there is NOTHING about drilling any more holes!
Later tonight I'll find out if this plan actually works or not....

[Anonymous]

I like to solder feeders to the bottom of the track before it is installed. I pull the wires out horizontally from the rails and drill holes in the roadbed next to the track for the wires after the track is aligned and spiked down. Much easier to solder this way and avoids having to guess where to drill holes exactly under the rails. I then cover up the wires with ballast or ground cover.