Walmart is Truly Evil!

[Anonymous]

Today when I was coming home for Mackinac(pronounced Mackinaw) We came down US23 so we could see teh Lake State Railway Co. Roundhouse in Tawas Michigan. Walmart bought most of the LSRC yard and turned it into a Super Walmart and a giant Parking lot. there was only 6 of the orginal 26 stalls left. and the rest of the round house was for sale. [:(]Pretty Soon there won't be a trace of the yard there. We got Pictures of whats left of the roundhose. The pit was filled in and all the track was gone.[V][:(]

[Javern]

Wal Mart is buying everything, its crazy

[jsoderq]

Before you get too excited, get the facts. The Lkae States shops are at Alpena, the southern end is Bay City and the two lines ( 1 ex D&M, 1 Ex Nyc ) run to Alpena and Gaylord. The Tawas yard was no longer a terminal but a midpoint on the line. The city wanted the land developed instead of sitting there as an little used yard.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jsoderq

Before you get too excited, get the facts. The Lkae States shops are at Alpena, the southern end is Bay City and the two lines ( 1 ex D&M, 1 Ex Nyc ) run to Alpena and Gaylord. The Tawas yard was no longer a terminal but a midpoint on the line. The city wanted the land developed instead of sitting there as an little used yard.

I could care less what happens to the yard. BUT SOMEONE PLEASE SAVE THE ROUNDHOUSE!!! That roundhouse if turned into a Museum Could bring in MORE tourists.

[Virginian]

Heck, the only ones who could afford that are probably Wal Mart. I don't see them doing a Wal Mart train museum in Mak-a-what? They do make civic minded contributions however.

[Train 284]

Thats sucks! Wal-Mart does not give a [censored] about where they build! To bad for the old roundhouse.

Matt

[brokemoto]

Wally's World is springing up on yet another railroad site, -eh?

I understand that the former Baldwin Locomotive Works in Eddystone, Pennsylvania is also a Wal-Mart.

[Anonymous]

Oh well... when I win the Lotto someday... I shall buy an old Wal-Mart and make it into a train museum/slash/model railroad store/slash RR club.

And you know those old guys who hang out at the LHS counter for 2 hours just talking to the customers and the owner....? I'll put 'em to work as museum guides. "Here... you wanna stand around jawing about the good old days...???? Put on this uniform, and make the rounds. We've got spectators with questions."

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Javern

Wal Mart is buying everything, its crazy

Ironically, if they open too many stores, they may eventually put themselves out of business. Just like K-Mart going down hill. You think anyone would want to preserve a Wall-Mart a hundred years from now?

[howmus]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Train 284

Thats sucks! Wal-Mart does not give a [censored] about where they build! To bad for the old roundhouse.

Matt

Um... Actually they do! Mal Wart only builds in places where they can get a lot of traffic and hope to put local businesses out of business with their policies of selling goods made in sweatshops in the "very far" and not treating empoyees well. (over 700,000 out of about 1,000,000 US Mal Wart employees do not have health insurance.) Just remember.. Mal*Wart your source for cheap plastic crap (but don't worry, they will pass on the savings to you)! I would rather pay more elsewhere.

[chateauricher]

While I am saddened by the indiscriminate destruction of heritage buildings in general, and railroad structures in particular, I would not blame only Walmart for the destruction of the LSRC roundhouse.

So, who should also shoulder blame ? The local city and county authorities for allowing the demolition in the first place. The local historical societies for not fighting the demolition. The state authorities for not protecting historical structures adequately.

Walmart only built their store where they were allowed to by the city council. If the local citizens didn't like the idea, they should have stood up and protested. Most zoning bylaw changes require public hearings and a vote in city council.

The lesson here is : if you want to see structures of historical or cultural significance protected from demolition, become active with your local government and/or historical socities and fight for zoning or other bylaws to protect these valuable assets. Write letters to your councilors, mayor, administrators, and media. Don't forget regional/county; state/provincial or federal governments either.

[Jetrock]

QUOTE: And you know those old guys who hang out at the LHS counter for 2 hours just talking to the customers and the owner....? I'll put 'em to work as museum guides. "Here... you wanna stand around jawing about the good old days...???? Put on this uniform, and make the rounds. We've got spectators with questions."

Actually, at least at the hobby shops near my neck of the woods, about half of the hobbyshop employees DO work as volunteers, docents, archivists or in some other capacity with local museums--usually on a volunteer basis.

chateauricher brings up a good point: Becoming involved in your commuity, city government, neigborhood association, or other local watchdog group can be a rewarding experience. You don't always win, but there are ways to thwart rotten development and protect historic buildings, at least up to a point.

As far as stopping Wal-Mart goes, it has been done a few times (Eureka, CA, stopped Wal-Mart where to go, and downtown Sacramento is in the process of torpedoing a new Wal-Mart in the middle of the downtown mall) and may well be the wave of the future...

[davekelly]

I'm not sure why Walmart is the bad guy here. Did Walmart prevent anyone from buying the land that included the roundhouse?

[gmpullman]

If you want a good cry go to the site of the former Homestead Works of US Steel... you guessed it, its a shopping mall. At least they saved SOME of the historical artifacts!

[Anonymous]

This may be a bit offensive but it is applicable. King of the Hill is one of my favorite shows. Dale Griibble, one of the characters, used a description like this. People who shop at Walmart are " like pigs who feast on the lips and anuses of their brothers." Human nature tends to lean towards the selfish end of things. Many people are just out for themselves and as long as they get what they want, everyone can just go to....I think that would be an accurate characterizationof evil...those who are totally narcissistic.

[Anonymous]

Money and greed will always run over anything in their path. It doesn't matter if it's an old historical roundhouse, a homestead, an animal preserve or grave yard. If some jerk comes along with the right money and lawyers to back him up, he'll get his way. And they'll always use that same old saying that "it's for the benefit of humanity, the community and/or for people in general"... It's sad. I like Walmart, but not when they destroy beloved landmarks.

[simon1966]

I am a Brit that has lived in the USA for almost 20 years. I have lived in both the North East and the Midwest. If there is one thing I have noticed during this time, it is that city fathers all over the USA are constantly trying to expand and develop their cities. This goes for large as well as small communities. Buildings of historical value are torn down all the time. Companies like Walmart are actively encouraged with tax breaks and incentives to come in and redevelop land that would otherwise be left as decaying shadows of its former self. It is not exactly Walmarts fault that they are being encoraged to do this. Preservation has to start with the cities.

[davekelly]

trainluver,

OK. I'm confused again. If I understand correctly, if Walmart comes to a town with lots of money and, of course, lawyers, they are the bad guys when the city council that is elected by the people do what the people don't want them to do. It seems to me that the bad guys would be the city council that lets that happen, or is it? Why would the city council do something that the people don't want? Could it be that they know what the voter turn out will be next election? Isn't the city council here, or local historical society, or the residents just as guilty as WalMart for destroying the landmark for letting it happen or not saving it earlier?

I am all for saving historical buildings, areas etc. One thing that must be thought about however, is are we willing to pay the cost? Yup, I'm sure Wal-Mart got tax breaks, but there is tax being paid. If a site were occupied by a non-profit, would there be tax revenue for the town/county etc? How will money be raised to maintain the site? Are the residents willing to shoulder the cost? Or do the residents not want that cost, but instead want a place to buy things cheap?

Yup, Walmart runs over the little guy. But before we point fingers, let's look within. How many posts are on this forum where lively discussion is taking place on where to find the cheapest MR stuff? It looks to me that the vast majority of folks on this forum want the cheapest price they can get - even if it means the mom and pop LHS in town goes out of business. Does that make them any different?

[Virginian]

Williamsburg, VA / James City County successfully kept Wal Mart out for years. So then they put a Super Wal Mart just over the line in York County and the net effect is that Williamsburg has a Wal Mart, but they don't get a tax dime out of it. Highly intelligent county board at work there.
Wal Mart is America's proof to the world that the main thing that matters is price. I can't blame them for that. I do think they are not as positive a force as they were when Sam was alive and running things. I really can't fault them for much other than their rigid mindset. They have already won the war but they are still fighting the battle. I can definitely envision the not too distant time when their primary, and only in some areas, competition is going to be other Wal Marts.

[joseph2]

Is the LSRC still all ALCO ? Do they use any RS2 or RS3 types ? thanks for any answers. When it was called the Detroit and Mackinaw I used to go to Mackinaw to watch them unload the carferry. Joe G.

[MAbruce]

Oh great, just what this forum really needs - another "I hate Wal-Mart" topic. [sigh][xx(]

[MisterBeasley]

It's a little like the LHS vs. The Internet, isn't it?

14 years ago, we had a baby girl. We found that baby formula at Wal-Mart was less than half the cost as the same brand at the "local" supermarket, which incidentally is owned by a large Danish holding company. In this case, they were not buying from off-shore sweat-shops, but from the same manufacturer, and just reducing the middleman costs.

Yes, Wal-Mart could certainly provide better wages and benefits for their workers. On the other hand, the workers could unionize, but so far they haven't done that. Wal-Mart is one of the few places where someone with only a rudimentary knowledge of English can find a job outside of the agricultural sector, so in some ways they are providing that important first step out of dependency on government programs.

Sure, Wal-Mart stifles competition. Up here in New England, though, the competition is just other big-box retailers like K-Mart or Ames. Most of the little Main Street shops disappeared a long time ago. Our Wal-Mart in the next town is in the space formerly occupied by a department store called Caldor, which died all by itself a few years back. This was just vacant retail space in a dying strip-mall when Wal-Mart moved in. Now I can't even drive near there because of the traffic, so somebody is happy with the place.

Remember, if you don't like Wal-Mart, then you shouldn't be shopping on the Internet, either. I support my local LHS whenever I can, but I'm not going to send extra money off to Denmark to pay high prices for commodities at one mega-corporation when I can get the same thing cheaper at Wal-Mart.

[dwRavenstar]

We may be in the minority around here as we recently had our Wal-Mart close it's doors for good. Oh, did I forget to mention the new Super Wal-Mart they opened the following morning a few blocks up the highway? [banghead]

Dave (dwRavenstar)

[MidlandPacific]

I'm not a big fan of Wally World, because I think their labor practices are indefensible. But in Walmart's defense, I will note that a lot of poor people are able to buy consumer goods they couldn't otherwise afford because Walmart makes them affordable.

There is, by the way, a certain subtle irony about a Wal-Mart being built on the site of the Homestead plant, given that their labor practices are about as enlightened as Carnegie's.

[Anonymous]

You wanna cry about something? The entire MIlwaukee Road shops in Milwaukee are GONE. Where they once manufactured rolling stock and maintained and rebuilt locomotives is now a parking lot for MIller Park (home of the Brewers baseball club). The City has plans for the whole area (parks, casino, hotels, etc..). There is more preserved MIlwaukee Road buildings in Montana, Idaho,and Washington than in MIlwaukee and Chicago.

WalMart did not put Mom & Pop out of business. K Mart, Sears, Woolwoth, etc.. did that. WalMart is putting KMart,et. al. out of business. Let's just pass legislation to limit the size of any business to not more than 100 employees. This ensures that there will only be Ma & Pa shops, very short line railroads, no steel mills, no large mines, no large farms, etc..

Yes it is a shame to see old buildings fall into disrepair and be lost. A C&NW roundhouse in MIlwaukee was razed many years ago, and there is now a small industrial park there (with a defunct KMart).

[willy6]

I have read on this forum a bazillion times of getting the best deal for the buck on model railroad items. How many of us would change their tune if Wal Mart opens up a dedicated model railroad department in their super stores? Or better yet, be able to buy model railroad items in bulk at Sam's Club.

[Anonymous]

[qoute]chateauricher brings up a good point: Becoming involved in your commuity, city government, neigborhood association, or other local watchdog group can be a rewarding experience. You don't always win, but there are ways to thwart rotten development and protect historic buildings, at least up to a point.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jwieczorek

You wanna cry about something? The entire MIlwaukee Road shops in Milwaukee are GONE. Where they once manufactured rolling stock and maintained and rebuilt locomotives is now a parking lot for MIller Park (home of the Brewers baseball club). The City has plans for the whole area (parks, casino, hotels, etc..). There is more preserved MIlwaukee Road buildings in Montana, Idaho,and Washington than in MIlwaukee and Chicago.

WalMart did not put Mom & Pop out of business. K Mart, Sears, Woolwoth, etc.. did that. WalMart is putting KMart,et. al. out of business. Let's just pass legislation to limit the size of any business to not more than 100 employees. This ensures that there will only be Ma & Pa shops, very short line railroads, no steel mills, no large mines, no large farms, etc..

Yes it is a shame to see old buildings fall into disrepair and be lost. A C&NW roundhouse in MIlwaukee was razed many years ago, and there is now a small industrial park there (with a defunct KMart).

This was one of the FEW roundhouses left in Michigan. Most of teh Survieing ones are in the Upper Penn. there is only a couple Roundhosue left in the lower Penn. One is in Green Feild village. I'm not really Crying about this. I AM STATING SOMEONE SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE CONSTANT LOSS OF OUR HISTORY! 50 YEARS FROM NOW PEOPLE WILL COME UP TO TAWAS AND NEVER HAVE ANY CLUE THAT THERE WAS A ROUNDHOUSE OR ANY PART OF THE YARD!!! ALL THAT IS LEFT OF THE YARD IS A TRACK THAT GOES AROUND WALMART EVERYTHING ELSE HAS BEEN REMOVED!

[jsoderq]

Please, once again if you don't know the facts stay out of it. The buildings in the yard were pretty much abandoned and in bad enough shape that preservation is just priced out of question. Why do you think more things aren't saved. It's the money! The old station/ office building was in good shape, just not very usable. Also the site was very contaminated( as all old railroad stuff is) and the tree hugger faction wanted it cleaned up to protect the water supply and the rest of the environment. Walmart could easily afford the cost, but who else? You can't save every old building and there has to be a viable use for it. There just isn't much use for an old roundhouse and a museum there could not survive on what limited tourism it could generate. Look at sites like the B&O museum and Steamtown and they are in the most heavily populated part of the US.

[davekelly]

CNWJay,

I agree SOMEONE should do something about the constant loss of our history. If I'm hearing you right you've just volunteered to spearhead the effort in your part of the country. It is very easy to complain about the loss of such locations, especially when it can be blamed on someone else's greed (they want to make more money, buy things more cheaply etc). Who is willing not to be greedy to save these places? Who is willing to spend their money to send letters to the population outlining what is happening and what the local government should do along with prestamped envelopes for letters to be sent to the local government ? Who is willing to contribute countless unpaid hours in order to run for local office? Who is willing to use their vacation time from work or take a unpaid day off to go to higher level of governments for action? Who is willing to do the research necessary to get a property placed on some historic register to preserve it? Who is willing to lead a preservation group to maintain the "saved" building? Who is willing to solicit people for money for the preservation efforts needed in a probably contaminated property?

If no one is willing to do that - then we'll lose the structure or whatever.