Are trains getting uglier?

[underworld]

Depends upon your preference. Some newer locs I really like. But my favorites are still steamers.

underworld

[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

[Bikerdad]

QUOTE: Roadtrp - When they are in operation they always look to me like they are about 30 seconds away from blowing up and scattering all those moving parts all over the place.

Yeah, that's part of the fascination. Ever hear the expression, "like watching a train wreck, you just can take your eyes off it?" [}:)]

[Roadtrp]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

I guess I'm in the minority here.

I think that these modern six axle giants are great looking engines!

The SD90, SD80, AC6000, SD75M...............ugly?

The functional "boxiness" adds to the image of tough, rugged, high horsepower machines that will haul super heavy freights at 70m.p.h, if need be. Similar principal to the "boxy" lines of 1960s muscle cars.

Funny thing. I remember that quite a few (yes, me too) didn't like the Amtrak Genesis units when they first hit the rails as they looked "wimpy" with the cab resembling that of an airliner. They grew on me, but I still miss those F40s!

Yes, the old PAs, E units, and F units were sleek, but don't short change the modern units either. Even the new SD70ace, with that weird looking nose, is not so bad compared to the EMD Spartan Cab (standard) which has been around since at least the 1960s. I grew up seeing Spartans everywhere, rather boring at times!

The arrival of the EMD and GE safety cabs in the 80s were indeed a very refreshing sight for my eyes. Started with those Santa Fe Super Fleet GP60Ms. Modelers and Railfans were excited. I still remember model railroaders at my LHS wondering out loud when Athearn or Atlas was going to hurry up and produce HO and N scale safety cabs. Seems like yesterday!

Good Goobly! Now, we're calling these things ugly? [banghead]

Go figure!!!!!!!!!][;)][(-D]

Peace and High Greens![%-)

[#ditto] [#ditto] [#ditto]

I love the look of the big new diesels. They look macho as heck just standing still. I will probably get kicked off this forum, but I've never been a fan of steamers. When they are in operation they always look to me like they are about 30 seconds away from blowing up and scattering all those moving parts all over the place.

[:p]

[AntonioFP45]

Well guys, this goes back to "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder".

Europeon diesel locomotives? Hmmmmmm......


Except for the British "semi-streamlined" passenger boxcab locomotives, I don't find Europeon locomotives attractive. Most of them, to me, look "hideous". [B)]

I've seen many pictures of modern and past Europeon units. A lot of the modern ones with the "streamlined styling" remind me of the 1960s Volkswagon bus! [:p]

And while we're talking Europeon trains, can someone tell me why so many of them have those HORRID TRAIN WHISTLES?!!!!!!!! [tdn]

No melodic tunes like what you get from our American made, K5 series or P series horns. These Europeon things just "SCREEEEEAAM" [:0][:0][:0][:0]like "Tea Kettles, only worse! Even our old "honkers" that were used on many E and F units back in the 1940s sounded more melodic![:-^]

Give me American or Canadian made EMD, GE, or MLW units anyday!
They LOOK [:D] and SOUND [{(-_-)}] better!

[philnrunt]

No

[Anonymous]

For the most part, they've gotten UGLY. But there are a few glorious looking exceptions like the SD-70M, all the GE Dash widecab units, the SD45T-2, and SD40-2.

With in the total spectrum of diesel history.... yes much uglier.

[nfmisso]

Locomotives have looked just plain ugly ever since the infernal combustion diesel electrics came along. Long live external combustion !!!

[Anonymous]

Yes!!!

[Bikerdad]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Bilby2k

If European designers can make very elegantly styled electric and diesel freight locos, what's stopping the US manufacturers doing the same?
Perhaps they should let the Bombardier designers loose in their design shops for a while!
Looking ugly as sin does not mean you are tough!

Elegantly styled? Most of them are about as elegantly styled as a toaster. At least modern NA freight diesels have brutal functionality on their side, lending character. Minimalist design wherein form follows function, as opposed to design where form hides function. The huge difference in styling between European and NA diesels is due to one key factor: maintenance costs. Euro maintenance budgets are MUCH higher per loco than ours. (The joys of subsidies and running railways in part as a jobs program.) They can afford to spend the extra hour per maintenance session futzing with the panels and all that.

A modern safety cab diesel bears a visceral resemblance to a football player, broad shoulders, focused on its goal, massive power held in check. A European loco? Looks like a suppository. [:p]

[Anonymous]

If European designers can make very elegantly styled electric and diesel freight locos, what's stopping the US manufacturers doing the same?
Perhaps they should let the Bombardier designers loose in their design shops for a while!
Looking ugly as sin does not mean you are tough!

[West Coast S]

EMD hasn't had a clean design since the GP-20, we won't mention GE . Anything widecab is just plain ugly, akin to putting a dress on your brother and calling him your sister! Makes me glad I abandoned rail photography when the SD40-2 was a dime a dozen.

[dinwitty]

early steam locos were painted colorful, but got dirty a lot, the proud engineers cleaned them often, but they started to paint them black because the grime didnt show up as much. Now we actually weather our loco's to be realistic...
Steamers were "Streamlined" for passenger PR like the diesels then, its about public view, today designs are more europeanized in some ways. Make the Europeans happy they feel at home.....

meh...

[Train 284]

QUOTE: Originally posted by up_santafe

Locomotives today are more focused on function rather than form as they were in the '40s and '50s due mainly to the fact that they are freight and not passenger oriented. If there was a significant change in our transportation habits back to long distance trains, I am sure there would be a lot of re-styling done.

[#ditto]

I definitly have to agree on this one!

[aloco]

YES! Trains started getting uglier when the diesel locomotive builders did away with the arched cab roofs. The best diesel locomotive body designs were manufactured from the late 1930s up until the end of the 1950s. The worst body designs are the bodies locomotive builders are making today - there are too many sharp corners. That is why I refuse to model the 'modern' era. I also find unit trains, container trains, and cabooseless trains boring to look at.

[Anonymous]

Ugly? Beauty? What does a modern diesel locomotive cost? How much more do you
think a railroad company would be willing to spend on frills, attempting to make a
locomotive more attractive to John Q? My guess is "zippo"! Lets see, the cab houses the controls and the crew. The hoods house the prime mover and other necessary equipment. All doing these jobs in a functional manner with minimum cost and with the least amount of maintenance as possible. All covered. Now, lets squirt some paint on there for protection, visibility and because paint is necessary, attempt to add some eye catching appeal and we'll get the logo on there so folks will know who the train works for. Again, all covered. Visual ugliness and beauty no longer have any importance and are emotional attributes anyway. The beauty, now, is in the capability of doing the job.
Only model railroaders have the choice of desiring one locomotive over another, based
on the loco's looks.

[vsmith]

boxy cabs, with steel utility box bodies on platforms,add some handrails on each side and I've just described EVERY freight engine built since 1970.

GOD they are BORING, so boring I cannot tell the difference between ANY newer diesel engine.

Give me a sexy PA1 any day!

[trainboyH16-44]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mustanggt

The newest diesels I can think of with actual contours instead of being utilitarian boxes are the F59PHI and GE Genesis.

Have you ever seen a SD90MAC-H?
http://www.trainweb.org/galt-stn/cproster/locomotive/9300s/cp9300b.htm
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=98941
That's what I'm talking about.
Trainboy
P.S. TBat55, that engine looks like it's straight out of one of my old kid's train books. Neat!

[TBat55]

Little eyes and a big smile from a J1e Hudson:

[Anonymous]

Trains getting uglier? For a LONG time they have. Think of the GG1 with its golden stripes and curvey sholders and hips, the SP GS-4 in Daylight colors, the Norfolk and Western J series streamliner steam, the Pioneer Zepher in all its polished stainless glory, the B&O heavy Pacifics in green and gold pulling a royal blue pullman consist., an A-B-B-A E3 slant nose in Santa Fe Warbonnet Livery, a brace of Alco PA s..also in Warbonnet, and a UP FEF 4-8-4 with its masculine smoke lifters streaming along with the golden yellow and grey luxury passenger cars, ..... You bet! Trains have been getting uglier. for the last 5 decades! .......but I like plenty of them,ugly or not... especailly rinkity-dink narrow gauge teakettles. and even some of those boxy 2nd generation diesels.... I just bought a GP-35 in Nickel Plate Road, black with yellow lettering.and recenthy a late 1800s 2-6-0 Cooke Mogul narrow gauge.

Cheers
Jennifer

[Bikerdad]

Nah, they aren't getting uglier. The E, F, PA, and Sharknoses were pretty good looking, but they were also created in an era when their design had to speak to the public, AND when the functional shortcomings of their designs were not obvious.

I personally think the ugliest locos were the first and second generation diesels not mentioned above, especially the high nose units. I like the modern heavyweights, with their wide cabs, although from a visual design perspective I'd work a bit more symmetry into them. Not sure yet about the new one's coming out, the overweening functionality of the SD70ACe hasn't warmed the cockles of my heart yet.

Most of the European and Asian locomotives, with the exception of the high speed passenger jobbies, are truly ugly, lacking in both grace and character.

Of course, ugly is simply in the eyes of the viewer. [8D]

[AntonioFP45]

I guess I'm in the minority here.

I think that these modern six axle giants are great looking engines!

The SD90, SD80, AC6000, SD75M...............ugly?

The functional "boxiness" adds to the image of tough, rugged, high horsepower machines that will haul super heavy freights at 70m.p.h, if need be. Similar principal to the "boxy" lines of 1960s muscle cars.

Funny thing. I remember that quite a few (yes, me too) didn't like the Amtrak Genesis units when they first hit the rails as they looked "wimpy" with the cab resembling that of an airliner. They grew on me, but I still miss those F40s!

Yes, the old PAs, E units, and F units were sleek, but don't short change the modern units either. Even the new SD70ace, with that weird looking nose, is not so bad compared to the EMD Spartan Cab (standard) which has been around since at least the 1960s. I grew up seeing Spartans everywhere, rather boring at times!

The arrival of the EMD and GE safety cabs in the 80s were indeed a very refreshing sight for my eyes. Started with those Santa Fe Super Fleet GP60Ms. Modelers and Railfans were excited. I still remember model railroaders at my LHS wondering out loud when Athearn or Atlas was going to hurry up and produce HO and N scale safety cabs. Seems like yesterday!

Good Goobly! Now, we're calling these things ugly? [banghead]

Go figure!!!!!!!!!][;)][(-D]

Peace and High Greens![%-)

[mustanggt]

Tatans brought up a good point. They are basically tractors- on rails. And I forgot to mention, The newest diesels I can think of with actual contours instead of being utilitarian boxes are the F59PHI and GE Genesis. I think alot of it has to do with fitting the style, such as these locos being on passenger trains, they need to flow visually with the cars. Freight trains are different, probably because the cars shapes vary greatly.

[METRO]

I think the passenger diesels are looking better. The F59PHI and DE30 are quite sleek. I also like the fact that they are not trying to copy the older locomotives, last thing we need is a messed up rip off of an F7 or PA1 the classics should stay as they were. Compaired to the F40 and unstreamlined F59 the new units are positively beautiful.

As for the freight diesels, well nothing can hold a light to the old Alco RS series and the FM units. But one must realize that those units were also intended from the begining to look good. Modern freight diesels are not styled by superstar industrial designers. I think if Renzo Piano or Santiago Calitrava were to pick up the sheet metal on a modern locomotive like Raymond Lowey did they'd probably be amazing looking machines. However, today function plays above form in freight motors.

~METRO

[ericsp]

I think everything through the Phase 1 SD70Ms and AC4400CWs are pretty good looking, with some exceptions. However, all of the locomotives currently being made are ugly.

[AggroJones]

The SD40-2 is the only modern diesel that can hang in the same coolness genre as the PA, Es, and F units.

[AggroJones]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Butch Cassidy

Locomotives of today are getting much sexier than the "UGLY" ones of the 40's 50's 60's and 70's They came from ugly now are getting nicer. Thank god for the sexy SD70Ms, Ac4400, and the SD90Macs

Wait a minute Al. Your saying the Alco PA-1 and EMD E8 are not "sexy"? Whaaaaaaa?
Aren't they the definition of "sexy diesels"?

[brothaslide]

My first thought when I saw the latest GE and EMD offerings with all the exposed piping, etc. (for ease of maintanence) was, "Man, those engines are ugly!"

[tatans]

And uglier and uglier. they are just diesel engines and electric motors wrapped in a steel shipping container, no more no less, not meant to appeal to the eye, they are TRACTORS pulling stuff.. I'm surprised they even bother to paint them.

[Anonymous]

Locomotives of today are getting much sexier than the "UGLY" ones of the 40's 50's 60's and 70's They came from ugly now are getting nicer. Thank god for the sexy SD70Ms, Ac4400, and the SD90Macs

[Anonymous]

I don't know? The top mid section of the SD70ACe below the horn is pretty cool. Its not round but its angled enough to look like the old days.[8D]
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=72042