Passenger cars on 18"radius: is it possible?

[Anonymous]

Okay, okay, I admit I limited myself by using 18" radius on my mainline, and now that I'm considering passenger service, I've painted myself into a corner. [D)][D)][D)][D)][D)][D)]
The question is, are there any manufacturers that make short passenger cars that can operate effectively on such short radii? Were there any really short prototypes used in the U.S. during the transition era?
If I have to suspend reality a bit to get passenger service, I'm willing, but I'd like to stay fairly accurate to prototype if I can.

[Anonymous]

Walthers Trainline has those 60' heavyweights. Ther should take 18" radius.

[TurboOne]

Hi Jim,

I thought you could run the trains so I hooked up my 4 car passenger train on my 18 track. Worked fine, no derailments or problems. The cars do hang over more than on my 22s, but they run fine. Give it a try, and enjoy.

Tim

[fec153]

O.K. Engines P.O. box 355H Mohawk,N.Y. 13407 Send $3 for cat. Also on net, but I have lost their address. Think it's in Jan. MR.
Flip

I also ran my Daylight consist on 18in. Too much overhang.

[CP5415]

Rivarossi & Athearn passenger cars have couplers mounted onto the trucks.
I've had no problems with these cars on 18" curves.

Gordon

[stokesda]

I have 2 Bachmann Spectrum 6-axle passenger cars hooked to a 4-8-4 Northern. They all make it around my 18" radius test track just fine. Granted, when the loco hits the turns, it strains a little bit harder [:)]

Now, how does it all look going around those 18" curves?... [:p]

http://www.danielandyoshie.net/Misc%20Pictures/P2160013.JPG

Cheers,

[Don Gibson]

PROBLEM is

1960's 4 X 8 layouts with 18" curves make $40 cars and other expensive equipment look 'Toy' like, and suggest's you prefer to 'play with toy's, rather than model (copy) the real thing.

The goal in 'modeling' is trying to simulate the real railroads in operation. You. of course, can do what you wish.

1060's equipment looks more realistic on 1060's track plans.Modern 85' cars need 46" curves to look right. The Tehachapi loop is 14' across or about 84"r.in HO for comparison.

[Anonymous]

I ran my Athearn Amtrak cars on 18" curves for a long time. Then I bumped the outer loop to 22", and they looked better, and ran better too. After the demise of that layout, I now run them around a 34" radius loop. They sure do look nice on 32"R. Bigger radii always make cars look more prototypical. If all you have is 18", and it makes you happy, go for it. Model railroading is about modeling a prototype, but it's also about having fun. Go have fun!

-dave

[BRVRR]

You can run Athearn BB streamlined passenger cars with the truck mounted couplers and the new Walther's 60' heavyweights on 18-inch radius track. They may overhang too much but they will run. If you have problems, particularly with the Athearn cars, check the weighting. They are usuall a couple of ounces light out of the box. Both types run fine on the BRVRR which has some 18" radius curves.

[CP5415]

I've run Walthers recent offerings of passenger cars on an 18" curve.
They made it, but I had the locomotive creaping as it went through the curve.

SO YES!!!

You can MODEL a passenger train with an 18" radius curve dispite what other people have recently said.
Modeling is just that MODELING!!!!
There is no right or wrong about it.

Just my 2 cents

Gordon

[Anonymous]

Go for it at 18" radius. If your space is limited. Most passenger cars will take it.

[IRONROOSTER]

Some of the small railroads ran open platform passenger cars of about 55' over the platforms. If you're trying to get really short like the Overton cars from MDC you're really "imagineering". Nothing wrong with that. You could also get some Athearn or MDC kits and modify them to a shorter length of say 50'.
Enjoy
Paul

[DigitalGriffin]

I faced the same agonizing problem with my 5x8 board. How to fit two to three tracks side by side and not have that cursid overhang problem. My solution was to do a reverse loop at one end of the board that ran under the table. When it goes in the tunnel, it's mostly straight. When it comes out of the tunnel, it's mostly straight. Only disadvanage is it will suck up about 2 feet of board at the end.

~D

[TurboOne]

Don, do you have a pick of how you did your reversing loop ? Thanks

Tim

[Anonymous]

I purchased a set of the new Rivarossi 85' passenger cars that have the diaphrams and body mounted couplers. They do run fine on an 18" radius, but they look terrible with the excessive overhang. Also, they will not go thru #4 switches.... Diaphrams get hung up on each other.

They do look ok on my 22" radius, but I am sure the larger the radius, the better they look.

I also have a set of Model Power 72" streamline cars that will run on 15" radius in their factory condition. Since I have removed the talgos and added body mount couplers with short shanks, they run great on 18" and larger. They also look much better, but they won't go thru a #4 turnout very happily.

I also have one Bachmann 85' super dome that runs on 18" very well and looks good also, mixed in with my Model Power 72's. Don't try to run it on anything smaller, though. I does go through #4's very well.

If 18" is your largest radius, I would check into Athearn, as they had some 60' cars that looked really good on an 18. Good luck!

[Don Gibson]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CP5415

I've run Walthers recent offerings of passenger cars on an 18" curve.
They made it, but I had the locomotive creaping as it went through the curve.

SO YES!!!

You can MODEL a passenger train with an 18" radius curve dispite what other people have recently said.
Modeling is just that MODELING!!!!
There is no right or wrong about it.

Just my 2 cents

Gordon

"The goal in 'modeling' is trying to simulate the real railroads in operation. You, of course, can do what you wish."

I suggest you look up the word "Modeling" A large engine on 18"corves is not modeling - even if you can do it.

If you want to run big equpment, just build bigger curves.
.

[SPFan]

The mantra preached on every issue of Model Railroader is "Model Railrailroading is FUN" Build or buy models and run them anyway that you want. Not everyone is blessed with a 1000 sq ft room to build our empires in.

Pete

[IRONROOSTER]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SPFan

The mantra preached on every issue of Model Railroader is "Model Railrailroading is FUN" Build or buy models and run them anyway that you want. Not everyone is blessed with a 1000 sq ft room to build our empires in.

Pete

I agree, even though MR moved it from the cover to the last inside page. A hobby isn't worth it unless you're having fun.
Enjoy
Paul

[Fergmiester]

I have a really tight turn so I went and bought myself a Roundhouse Oldtime coach. Works like a charm

[DigitalGriffin]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TurboOne

Don, do you have a pick of how you did your reversing loop ? Thanks

Tim

Well no not really. My solution really isn't the most ideal as it doesn't cover the other side of the board. If you did a reverse loop on each end you would only have about 4 feet visible. Luckily I have a L shape layout (another 3 1/2 x 12 feet) which I thrown another hidden reverse loop into.

Another solution is to use R24s exposed then curve them into R18s hidden (A total of 42" that would fit nicely in a 4' width) You might even be able to get away with R28's if you don't mind hanging the edges under the board.

There are plans where the track dissapears under the city, where you can hide those ugly overhangs. Some are quite clever. I got several good ideas from "48 Top Notch Track Plans" from MRR.

~Don

[CP5415]

[
"The goal in 'modeling' is trying to simulate the real railroads in operation. You, of course, can do what you wish."

I suggest you look up the word "Modeling" A large engine on 18"corves is not modeling - even if you can do it.

If you want to run big equpment, just build bigger curves.
.

[Roadtrp]

I run 85' passenger cars on N scale 11-1/4" radiuses, which would be fairly equivalent to 22" radiuses in HO. It doesn't look entirely realistic, but runs smoothly and looks good enough that I enjoy it.

The 46" radius that Don recommends would require about 8 feet for a 180 degree turn. Unless you have a spare room you can devote to MR using a walk-in layout around the perimeter, there is no way a person would have that much space.

I'm glad Don has enough space to make his modeling look entirely realistic, and if he would be kind enough to buy me a house with an extra room for MR I would certainly appreciate it. I would then make sure that everything I did was absolutely prototypical.

[:P] [:P]

[CP5415]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Roadtrp

I'm glad Don has enough space to make his modeling look entirely realistic, and if he would be kind enough to buy me a house with an extra room for MR I would certainly appreciate it. I would then make sure that everything I did was absolutely prototypical.

[:P] [:P]

Amen!

Gordon

[Anonymous]

There's also the option for Budliners, you can even run a single one if passenger traffic is light.

Or go to early steam when the cars are really short! In N Scale, 45' passenger cars don't overhang too drastically on 7.5"r curves, and 36'ers do well enough on 6"r on our layout.

[Anonymous]

i run bachmann old time passenger cars on 18" curves without any problems and looks great. pulled by spectrum 2-10-0 steamer.

[Don Gibson]

QUOTE:
"The goal in 'modeling' is trying to simulate the real railroads in operation. You, of course, can do what you wish."

I suggest you look up the word "Modeling" A large engine on 18"corves is not modeling - even if you can do it. If you want to run big equpment, just build bigger curves. - D.G.

QUOTE: posted by CP5415

Main Entry: 2model
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): mod·eled or mod·elled; mod·el·ing or mod·el·ling /'mäd-li[ng], 'mä-d&l-i[ng]/
transitive senses
1 : to plan or form after a pattern : SHAPE
2 archaic : to make into an organization (as an army, government, or parish)
3 a : to shape or fashion in a plastic material b : to produce a representation or simulation of <using a computer to model a problem>
4 : to construct or fashion in imitation of a particular model[/b]<modeled its constitution on that of the U.S.>
5 : to display by wearing, using, or posing with <modeled gowns>
intransitive senses
1 : to design or imitate forms : make a pattern <enjoys modeling in clay>
2 : to work or act as a fashion model


Doesn't say any where that 18" curves & steam isn't modeling .
Gordon

SO therefor you say it IS?
M. Webster said it best.: "to produce a representation or simulation of."

If you think a large locomotive on 18" radius track looks OK or is a "reasonable" simulation, go ahead. I think that producing a 28" curve isn't that formidable a task. for someone considering themselves a 'Modeler'.

[CP5415]

Sure, if you have that much space Don.
I have to contend with children & a wife who require space in our house as well.

Besides, isn't a proper representation something like 130" radius for HO scale?

Gordon

[Don Gibson]

28" curves made easy:

BUY a 6" plank to inrease a 4X8 to 30" .Who doesn' have 6"? (keep it clean).

larger than 28" curves:
Do You have a 4X8? It fills a room because you have to wallk around it. It needs 2.5' - 3' more floor space on all sides. Most bedroom's are 10X12. Smallest are 10X10.

Cut your board into quarters and shove into the corner's, and connect. them. 46"r? -Piece of cake. Operate from the inside. Now see how your 4-8-8-2's look..

Main engineering effort will be a lift - up drawbrige type entry.

[brokemoto]

This is why I do N scale. At the time, I lived in an apartment. I do like small-to-average sized steam and prefer B-B trucked diesels to A-1-A or C-C, but I also like passenger trains. With nineteen and seventeen inch radius curves, passenger equipment looks allright in N.

I now have a house, but since I spent so much money on N, I will stay there.

As for HO, TYCO (mantua) and Life-Like did sell shorty HW and corrugated cars in the 1960s and 1970s. If you look at shows, you can still find these and for good prices. They came in a few roadnames. If you can not find yours, strip the paint, repaint and add appropriate letters and numbers. They were about sixty feet or so. Some of the Athearn Blue Box passenger cars are sixty or seventy feet, as well.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Don Gibson

QUOTE:
"The goal in 'modeling' is trying to simulate the real railroads in operation. You, of course, can do what you wish."

I suggest you look up the word "Modeling" A large engine on 18"corves is not modeling - even if you can do it. If you want to run big equpment, just build bigger curves. - D.G.

QUOTE: posted by CP5415

Main Entry: 2model
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): mod·eled or mod·elled; mod·el·ing or mod·el·ling /'mäd-li[ng], 'mä-d&l-i[ng]/
transitive senses
1 : to plan or form after a pattern : SHAPE
2 archaic : to make into an organization (as an army, government, or parish)
3 a : to shape or fashion in a plastic material b : to produce a representation or simulation of <using a computer to model a problem>
4 : to construct or fashion in imitation of a particular model<modeled its constitution on that of the U.S.>
5 : to display by wearing, using, or posing with <modeled gowns>
intransitive senses
1 : to design or imitate forms : make a pattern <enjoys modeling in clay>
2 : to work or act as a fashion model


Doesn't say any where that 18" curves & steam isn't modeling .
Gordon

SO therefor you say it IS?
M. Webster said it best.: "to produce a representation or simulation of."

If you think a large locomotive on 18" radius track looks OK or is a "reasonable" simulation, go ahead. I think that producing a 28" curve isn't that formidable a task. for someone considering themselves a 'Modeler'.

I didn't mean for an innocent question to cause so much flak guys. Bold face type AND snappy comebacks!

Since I'm the guilty party that started this thread, let me clear the air a bit here:

1. In order to switch to a larger radii, I would naturally have to rip up the loops at both ends of my layout, which is a modified dogbone. Seeing that I'm just now getting the whole thing back up and running after moving six months ago, I'm not really in the mood to engage in such a large project. I'd like to actually sit back and enjoy watching my trains run for a little while.

2. I probably should have been a bit more specific in my question. I wasn't asking if I should try running 85' streamliners on my teeny weeny curves. I was actually wondering if there were models of shorter prototypes that would look reasonably plausible on a transition era layout - say, 45-50'.

3. If you'll notice at the end of my question I stated that I was willing to suspend reality a bit to get a passenger train rolling, so the whole issue of whether or not I'm modeling in the strict, official Webster's definition is not really my worry, though I'd like to avoid too much overhang so that clearance doesn't become a problem.

Sorry for the confusion fellas![}:)][/b]