Passenger cars on 18"radius: is it possible?

[Anonymous]

I run the Bachmann On30 passenger cars on a 15" radius, so yes it can be done. Got to keep it short though. More than three cars and it has a tendency to pull the cars off the rails. I pull the coaches around

[Anonymous]

I have a couple of Bachmann Spectrum Amtrak 86' coaches. They do run on 18" radius, but there is so much overhang that you can see all of the track beneath it!!!

[Anonymous]

Couldnt help but say that I do it too.
May not look great, but I cant run my N scale layout without intermodal, autoracks,
and or course, my Superliner. Benefit of N though; more room for longer equipment
Dont' have any equipment like that in HO, but I have some Athearn heavyweights and some German double-deckers that are quite long and do fine on 18", though overhang is large.

[espeefoamer]

You can run passenger cars around 18" radius curves,but they will look like streetcars doing it!

[Don Gibson]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CP5415

Some people have different opinions to what modeling is all about.
Some think you should do this & shouldn't do that as it's incorrect, while others will say sure, why not, it's your railroad.

I'm MODELING how I want my layout to be, dispite what others think ...
Gordon [:D]

GORDON:

All of us 'play' with trains. It brings out the 'child' in us. Some of us model also.

Since you're concerned with your wants - despite other's opinions - that kinda' says it all.
Sayanora.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Don Gibson

"The goal in 'modeling' is trying to simulate the real railroads in operation. You, of course, can do what you wish."

[darday]

Since I do statistical modeling in real life, I always remember that the "third law of statistics" states:

"All models are wrong; some are just better than others."

Bottom line: No model equals reality. We make them as good as we can under the circumstances and resource constraints we are given. I really appreciate superdetailed, hyper-realistic models that approximate the prototype to the nth degree, but my own pike is a 4x6 with 18" radius curves, because that is all I have the space and time for at the moment. I have two Athearn streamlined coaches that I run around the loop sometimes to represent a local passenger train. One is a 60' RPO, the other is a 72' coach, both with truck mounted couplers. Neither looks prototypical to the trained eye when going around the curves, but my boys still think they look cool when they pull up at the little station!

--Dave

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by yankeejwb

QUOTE: Originally posted by solosdad

The Athearn passenger cars are shorter than the prototypical 85' length. These should work well on your 18" radius.

Since Athearn is no longer in the Walthers catalog, how can I find these, say, online?

Depending on the road name, many (if not most) of the Athearn passenger cars are out of production right now. Sometimes you get lucky finding one at an LHS, but I've had my best luck on eBay, finding folks selling off passenger cars they're no longer using. Not a fast way to build a passenger train, but they say patience is a virtue. [:)]

[ksax73]

Walthers' Amfleets can handle 18" radius. I haven't had much trouble with them rounding 18" radius curvs on the fly.

Walthers Superliner I's should be able to handle that as well since they don't have the triangular shock supports like thier Superliner II counterparts.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by solosdad

The Athearn passenger cars are shorter than the prototypical 85' length. These should work well on your 18" radius.

Since Athearn is no longer in the Walthers catalogue, how can I find these, say, online?

[Anonymous]

Folks just need to remember sometimes to answer the question that was asked - not answer the question that wasn't. Folks tend to think about the layout that they want you to have rather than the one in front of you.


The Athearn passenger cars are shorter than the prototypical 85' length. These should work well on your 18" radius.

[tstage]

Yes, it's possible. But unless it's one of the shorter passenger cars mentioned earlier, it ain't gonna look perty doin' it.

Tom

[CP5415]

Don't worry about it Yankeejwb!!!

Some people have different opinions to what modeling is all about.
Some think you should do this & shouldn't do that as it's incorrect, while others will say sure, why not, it's your railroad.
I like to think I'm part of the latter group.
I don't count rivets.
I don't need to, as I'm MODELING how I want my layout to be, dispite what others think what "proper" modeling is.

Gordon [:D]

[Anonymous]

The cars will hang a out a little farther, but other than that, you shouldn't have any problems.

Steam is # 1[:D]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Don Gibson

QUOTE:
"The goal in 'modeling' is trying to simulate the real railroads in operation. You, of course, can do what you wish."

I suggest you look up the word "Modeling" A large engine on 18"corves is not modeling - even if you can do it. If you want to run big equpment, just build bigger curves. - D.G.

QUOTE: posted by CP5415

Main Entry: 2model
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): mod·eled or mod·elled; mod·el·ing or mod·el·ling /'mäd-li[ng], 'mä-d&l-i[ng]/
transitive senses
1 : to plan or form after a pattern : SHAPE
2 archaic : to make into an organization (as an army, government, or parish)
3 a : to shape or fashion in a plastic material b : to produce a representation or simulation of <using a computer to model a problem>
4 : to construct or fashion in imitation of a particular model<modeled its constitution on that of the U.S.>
5 : to display by wearing, using, or posing with <modeled gowns>
intransitive senses
1 : to design or imitate forms : make a pattern <enjoys modeling in clay>
2 : to work or act as a fashion model


Doesn't say any where that 18" curves & steam isn't modeling .
Gordon

SO therefor you say it IS?
M. Webster said it best.: "to produce a representation or simulation of."

If you think a large locomotive on 18" radius track looks OK or is a "reasonable" simulation, go ahead. I think that producing a 28" curve isn't that formidable a task. for someone considering themselves a 'Modeler'.

I didn't mean for an innocent question to cause so much flak guys. Bold face type AND snappy comebacks!

Since I'm the guilty party that started this thread, let me clear the air a bit here:

1. In order to switch to a larger radii, I would naturally have to rip up the loops at both ends of my layout, which is a modified dogbone. Seeing that I'm just now getting the whole thing back up and running after moving six months ago, I'm not really in the mood to engage in such a large project. I'd like to actually sit back and enjoy watching my trains run for a little while.

2. I probably should have been a bit more specific in my question. I wasn't asking if I should try running 85' streamliners on my teeny weeny curves. I was actually wondering if there were models of shorter prototypes that would look reasonably plausible on a transition era layout - say, 45-50'.

3. If you'll notice at the end of my question I stated that I was willing to suspend reality a bit to get a passenger train rolling, so the whole issue of whether or not I'm modeling in the strict, official Webster's definition is not really my worry, though I'd like to avoid too much overhang so that clearance doesn't become a problem.

Sorry for the confusion fellas![}:)][/b]

[brokemoto]

This is why I do N scale. At the time, I lived in an apartment. I do like small-to-average sized steam and prefer B-B trucked diesels to A-1-A or C-C, but I also like passenger trains. With nineteen and seventeen inch radius curves, passenger equipment looks allright in N.

I now have a house, but since I spent so much money on N, I will stay there.

As for HO, TYCO (mantua) and Life-Like did sell shorty HW and corrugated cars in the 1960s and 1970s. If you look at shows, you can still find these and for good prices. They came in a few roadnames. If you can not find yours, strip the paint, repaint and add appropriate letters and numbers. They were about sixty feet or so. Some of the Athearn Blue Box passenger cars are sixty or seventy feet, as well.

[Don Gibson]

28" curves made easy:

BUY a 6" plank to inrease a 4X8 to 30" .Who doesn' have 6"? (keep it clean).

larger than 28" curves:
Do You have a 4X8? It fills a room because you have to wallk around it. It needs 2.5' - 3' more floor space on all sides. Most bedroom's are 10X12. Smallest are 10X10.

Cut your board into quarters and shove into the corner's, and connect. them. 46"r? -Piece of cake. Operate from the inside. Now see how your 4-8-8-2's look..

Main engineering effort will be a lift - up drawbrige type entry.

[CP5415]

Sure, if you have that much space Don.
I have to contend with children & a wife who require space in our house as well.

Besides, isn't a proper representation something like 130" radius for HO scale?

Gordon

[Don Gibson]

QUOTE:
"The goal in 'modeling' is trying to simulate the real railroads in operation. You, of course, can do what you wish."

I suggest you look up the word "Modeling" A large engine on 18"corves is not modeling - even if you can do it. If you want to run big equpment, just build bigger curves. - D.G.

QUOTE: posted by CP5415

Main Entry: 2model
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): mod·eled or mod·elled; mod·el·ing or mod·el·ling /'mäd-li[ng], 'mä-d&l-i[ng]/
transitive senses
1 : to plan or form after a pattern : SHAPE
2 archaic : to make into an organization (as an army, government, or parish)
3 a : to shape or fashion in a plastic material b : to produce a representation or simulation of <using a computer to model a problem>
4 : to construct or fashion in imitation of a particular model[/b]<modeled its constitution on that of the U.S.>
5 : to display by wearing, using, or posing with <modeled gowns>
intransitive senses
1 : to design or imitate forms : make a pattern <enjoys modeling in clay>
2 : to work or act as a fashion model


Doesn't say any where that 18" curves & steam isn't modeling .
Gordon

SO therefor you say it IS?
M. Webster said it best.: "to produce a representation or simulation of."

If you think a large locomotive on 18" radius track looks OK or is a "reasonable" simulation, go ahead. I think that producing a 28" curve isn't that formidable a task. for someone considering themselves a 'Modeler'.

[Anonymous]

i run bachmann old time passenger cars on 18" curves without any problems and looks great. pulled by spectrum 2-10-0 steamer.

[Anonymous]

There's also the option for Budliners, you can even run a single one if passenger traffic is light.

Or go to early steam when the cars are really short! In N Scale, 45' passenger cars don't overhang too drastically on 7.5"r curves, and 36'ers do well enough on 6"r on our layout.

[CP5415]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Roadtrp

I'm glad Don has enough space to make his modeling look entirely realistic, and if he would be kind enough to buy me a house with an extra room for MR I would certainly appreciate it. I would then make sure that everything I did was absolutely prototypical.

[:P] [:P]

Amen!

Gordon

[Roadtrp]

I run 85' passenger cars on N scale 11-1/4" radiuses, which would be fairly equivalent to 22" radiuses in HO. It doesn't look entirely realistic, but runs smoothly and looks good enough that I enjoy it.

The 46" radius that Don recommends would require about 8 feet for a 180 degree turn. Unless you have a spare room you can devote to MR using a walk-in layout around the perimeter, there is no way a person would have that much space.

I'm glad Don has enough space to make his modeling look entirely realistic, and if he would be kind enough to buy me a house with an extra room for MR I would certainly appreciate it. I would then make sure that everything I did was absolutely prototypical.

[:P] [:P]

[CP5415]

[
"The goal in 'modeling' is trying to simulate the real railroads in operation. You, of course, can do what you wish."

I suggest you look up the word "Modeling" A large engine on 18"corves is not modeling - even if you can do it.

If you want to run big equpment, just build bigger curves.
.

[DigitalGriffin]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TurboOne

Don, do you have a pick of how you did your reversing loop ? Thanks

Tim

Well no not really. My solution really isn't the most ideal as it doesn't cover the other side of the board. If you did a reverse loop on each end you would only have about 4 feet visible. Luckily I have a L shape layout (another 3 1/2 x 12 feet) which I thrown another hidden reverse loop into.

Another solution is to use R24s exposed then curve them into R18s hidden (A total of 42" that would fit nicely in a 4' width) You might even be able to get away with R28's if you don't mind hanging the edges under the board.

There are plans where the track dissapears under the city, where you can hide those ugly overhangs. Some are quite clever. I got several good ideas from "48 Top Notch Track Plans" from MRR.

~Don

[Fergmiester]

I have a really tight turn so I went and bought myself a Roundhouse Oldtime coach. Works like a charm

[IRONROOSTER]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SPFan

The mantra preached on every issue of Model Railroader is "Model Railrailroading is FUN" Build or buy models and run them anyway that you want. Not everyone is blessed with a 1000 sq ft room to build our empires in.

Pete

I agree, even though MR moved it from the cover to the last inside page. A hobby isn't worth it unless you're having fun.
Enjoy
Paul

[SPFan]

The mantra preached on every issue of Model Railroader is "Model Railrailroading is FUN" Build or buy models and run them anyway that you want. Not everyone is blessed with a 1000 sq ft room to build our empires in.

Pete

[Don Gibson]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CP5415

I've run Walthers recent offerings of passenger cars on an 18" curve.
They made it, but I had the locomotive creaping as it went through the curve.

SO YES!!!

You can MODEL a passenger train with an 18" radius curve dispite what other people have recently said.
Modeling is just that MODELING!!!!
There is no right or wrong about it.

Just my 2 cents

Gordon

"The goal in 'modeling' is trying to simulate the real railroads in operation. You, of course, can do what you wish."

I suggest you look up the word "Modeling" A large engine on 18"corves is not modeling - even if you can do it.

If you want to run big equpment, just build bigger curves.
.

[Anonymous]

I purchased a set of the new Rivarossi 85' passenger cars that have the diaphrams and body mounted couplers. They do run fine on an 18" radius, but they look terrible with the excessive overhang. Also, they will not go thru #4 switches.... Diaphrams get hung up on each other.

They do look ok on my 22" radius, but I am sure the larger the radius, the better they look.

I also have a set of Model Power 72" streamline cars that will run on 15" radius in their factory condition. Since I have removed the talgos and added body mount couplers with short shanks, they run great on 18" and larger. They also look much better, but they won't go thru a #4 turnout very happily.

I also have one Bachmann 85' super dome that runs on 18" very well and looks good also, mixed in with my Model Power 72's. Don't try to run it on anything smaller, though. I does go through #4's very well.

If 18" is your largest radius, I would check into Athearn, as they had some 60' cars that looked really good on an 18. Good luck!