To cork roadbed or not?

[SilverSpike]

That is the question!

As a forward to this posting I hope that it is not a "beaten horse topic". If it is an over used topic, my apologies, and thanks in advance. Just trying to learn and absorb some more knowledge here!

I have already done some searching in the forums with the keywords "cork", ”cork roadbed”, and “roadbed”, and have found many references in previous postings to cork, including how to apply, what adhesive to use, how to cut it, etc....

So, here is my point, err, questions:

I remember hearing somewhere that cork dries out over time and can crumble.

Have you ever had cork roadbed crumble on your layout?

If this really is an issue, how do you prevent the cork roadbed from crumbling?

What roadbed material do you use if not using cork?

Maybe this is a non-issue, I do not know!

Thanks again in advance for answering any or all of my questions posed in this posting.

Ryan

[simon1966]

The Midwest products brand of cork I used seems to be more of a compisite material of cork and rubber. So far there is no hint of it drying or crumbling.

[orsonroy]

My test track is my dad's old HO scale test track. He built it in 1965 (give or take) out of cork roadbed and True Scale flextrack with code 100 brass rail and fiber ties(!). The cork is dry, but not crumbly 40 years later. Take that as you want, but I don't think cork disintegrating on you will be much of an issue.

That said, I don't use cork any more, except on Ntrak module mainlines. Call me cheap, but for my HO scale layout (with it's over 400 feet of track) I decided to make my own roadbed out of 1/2" thick pink foam.

I think all roadbed works equally well for what it is: a scenic element. You don't NEED roadbed to build a successful layout, no more than you NEED any scenery at all. It's all in how much time, effort and money you're willing to put into your hobby, and what your desired end result is.

[SpaceMouse]

when I heard that cork cut the noise levels down I kind-of poo-pooed it, thinking, "How much noise can there be?" Well, I have one short section of track where EZ track runs on plywood. The trains hit that and they sound like they lost a wheel off the rail. The difference is substantial.

[AggroJones]

You can revitalize old brittle cork by soaking it in warm water for a few hours. I use weights to hold keep them submerged. Then you take it out, dry it off some and lay it while it's still flexible.

[Anonymous]

I've had cork roadbed on one of my pairs of modules for about 20 years now without any problems, And these modules have seen a lot of banging around over the years. I imagine on a home layout there should not be much of a problem.

BobBoudreau

[jrbernier]

I have cork that has been down since 1987 - no crumbling, but I am sure it is hard as a rock! I had a few section left over and I stored it for future use - I was so hard that it broke when I tried to flex it.
That said, I use 'Homabed' for all of my mainline track, and cork for the sidings/spurs.

Jim Bernier

[fiatfan]

One thing I have noticed is that whether you use cork, homasote or what ever, once you glue the ballast with white glue/water, the sound absorbing qualities are not as good.

Tom

[Anonymous]

I love cork, but I make my own roadbed from some really nice stuff I get from a distributor.

-dave

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by simon1966

The Midwest products brand of cork I used seems to be more of a compisite material of cork and rubber. So far there is no hint of it drying or crumbling.

I started using the MW cork 14 years ago, and have had no problems either. Maybe some of the cheaper no-name brands dry out and crumble than the MW.

Although if I ever get around to revising/rebuilding my layout, I'm tempted to give some of that Woodland Scenics foam rubber roadbed a try - I really like the feel of it, and because you can get it in long rolls instead of just 3' strips.

[Anonymous]

dpaton: would you share your secret with us and tell us what "the really nice stuff" is?

[SilverSpike]

Thanks for all the tips on cork roadbed.

I would also imagine that the white glue and water mixture as an adhesive used to apply ballast would help preserve the cork too. I have also seen photos where some people paint a thinned out layer of white or gray latex paint onto the cork before laying track. This coating would probably help to preserve the life of the cork.

Yes, dpaton, you have my curiosity peaked too! What is the “nice stuff”?

Thanks again,

Ryan

[Anonymous]

Being a frugal (cheap) person, I bought the cork needed at an "Ace Hardware" Store. It is available in various thickness and up to 8' lengths (rolls). I hope they still carry it. If not perhaps "Home Depot?" The LHS is a little pricey. Most of my road is of Homasote underlayment...good accoustically, cheap price, easily roughed for texture, takes paint well, pourous enough to add light & utility poles easily, etc. Be sure to wear protective glasses and face mask when ripping with a saw! Not sophisticated enough? You can always spend more on foam. Crumbling cork should not be a problem, especially in the high humidity of New Orelans. However, in a dry climate, it wouldn't hurt to apply a coat of sanding sealer. Please give my regards to Arnauds and the Court of Two Sisters and a big hug for the Pearly Thomas Cars on St. Charles Street.

[SilverSpike]

QUOTE: Ted D. Kramer

Crumbling cork should not be a problem, especially in the high humidity of New Orleans. However, in a dry climate, it wouldn't hurt to apply a coat of sanding sealer. Please give my regards to Arnauds and the Court of Two Sisters and a big hug for the Pearly Thomas Cars on St. Charles Street.

Ted,
Both restaurants you mentioned are still recovering from the Mardi Gras hangover, especially since they both are in the French Quarter. The Pearly Thomas Streetcars pass the building I work at all day long here on St. Charles Avenue. I will definitely give them a big wave, but hugs would be too dangerous, in spirit a hug is in order!

You are right about the humidity down here, 100 percent is the norm. I have heard of the cork rolls product available at HD or Lowe’s, thanks for reminding me of that option. We have an Ace HW just down street so I’ll have to check that one out too! BTW, what is sanding sealer?

Thanks,

Ryan

[Anonymous]

Silver just as Spacemouse stated awhen you use cork roadbed it seriously cuts down he nose much better than the WS roadbed. In fact I laid some track last night on my layout and used the cork I have and from the transitiion of WS roadbed to the cork is a big difference. I really wish I did my whole layout with Cork but I used that crappy WS foam stuff. I really have to insist that you or anyone ready to do roadbed to use cork.

[AggroJones]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Biggie Smalls

Silver just as Spacemouse stated awhen you use cork roadbed it seriously cuts down he nose much better than the WS roadbed. In fact I laid some track last night on my layout and used the cork I have and from the transitiion of WS roadbed to the cork is a big difference. I really wish I did my whole layout with Cork but I used that crappy WS foam stuff. I really have to insist that you or anyone ready to do roadbed to use cork.

Exactly. Thats what I learned from my last layout. The new one has no WS foam crap at all. I saved and use the old cork by soaking it to make them flexible again. That WS stuff is sitting in a box, just in case I need it for another project.

Always go with cork!

[Anonymous]

I have always used cork roadbed and never had any problem with it. It is easy to work with. I can't imagine anything easier to work with. My feeling is that if it isn't broke, don't fix it. I will always use cork roadbed. I know from previous experience that I will be happy with it. Why use an "unknown" product when you are thrilled with cork?

[lonewoof]

I'm curious if anyone has ever used "art board" (or whatever it's called) for roadbed? It's that foam material that has paper on both sides, about 1/8" or 3/13" thick (may come in other thicknesses, for all I kn ow).

[Jetrock]

Foamcore is not a good roadbed material--the paper swells and peels off when it gets damp.

I have used the Woodland Scenics roadbed and found it easy to work with, but generally I don't use roadbed at all--I nail my track directly to my MDF tabletop, and then apply either ballast or styrene street surface. MDF is a great absorber of sound, I guess, or maybe I just like a loud layout because I have never noticed a noise problem.

[rrinker]

Aggro, what you observed is exactly opposite of what I found. I laid a test strip of flextrack with cork under one end and the WS foam under the other, and every car I rolled over it was louder on the CORK side, not the foam side.
Maybe it's the fastening method? I used latex caulk, which itself never gets hard to conduct sound like white glue or Liquid Nails do. But I used the same thing on both the cork and foam side.
Maybe it's the subsurface - I am using extruded foam, not wood.

--Randy

[AggroJones]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker

Aggro, what you observed is exactly opposite of what I found. I laid a test strip of flextrack with cork under one end and the WS foam under the other, and every car I rolled over it was louder on the CORK side, not the foam side.
Maybe it's the fastening method? I used latex caulk, which itself never gets hard to conduct sound like white glue or Liquid Nails do. But I used the same thing on both the cork and foam side.
Maybe it's the subsurface - I am using extruded foam, not wood.

--Randy

Was the track ballasted though? From my experience, with track laid on WS foam-bed, trains ran quieter than on cork. But after ballasting, cork was quieter. Both were secured with 1" pins and white glue on 1" beaded foam base.

[rrinker]

I ballasted a section on the test module with WS ballast, held in with white glue and rubbing alcohol. After it dried completely, to my ears, the ballasted part is even QUIETER than the non-ballasted section on the WS foam. I didn't ballast the cork section. The test module is louder than my actual layout, because it is just a 2x2 section of foam with no framework of any sort around it. The only thing that's loud on the actual layout is my father in law's Bowser PRR T-1, but, well, that thing is just plain LOUD running upside down on the bench. Put THAT on the unsceniced foam, and, well, it's VERY loud.

--Randy

[SilverSpike]

Great input from all on the "Cork Controversy"!!!!

After my first day’s review of this post, I would say that cork is a majority choice among model railroaders. If this were a poll it would probably be 85% for cork, and then 10% for the WS foam stuff, then 5% for other (Homasote, etc)

Yours in model railroading,

Ryan
.

[Anonymous]

I strongly insist that anyone go for the cork experience. It is much quieter. I do not have my track ballasted right now and its quieter than on the WS foambed. I watch my trains run from the WS stuff over to cork and get quieter. It kinda gets me a bit mad because I wish all my track was Corked. Damn man that is a lesson learned though. Once you go cork you never go back.

[Anonymous]

SilverSpike, yes a "hug" is too risky. Perhaps a "hug'" for the Pastry Chef at Arnauds would be better, although that could be dangerous too. Maybe just sip a Hurricane at the Famous Door for me? I assume your choice is definitely cork? Good decision, you won't regret it. Sanding sealer is a general term for a clear varnish consisting of shellac or gum resins disolved in alcohol and other quick drying solvents. Ryan, you won't need to worry about "crumbling" cork in your climate. If you lived near the Mojave Desert that would be a different matter. I live on Florida's West Coast and, believe me, I know what you mean about humidity. Did you know that LBJ has come out with a Pearly Thomas Car in G gauge (1-29 I believe)? I would like to buy one but I'm not quite ready to mortgage my house just yet. Best of luck on your layout.

[SilverSpike]

Ted,
Thanks for the reply on the sanding sealer question! Yes, I will be sticking with cork, seems like plenty of people have positive results with its application.
I saw an advertisement for that G scale Pearly Thomas, and I am with you, not ready to take out a second loan just yet!
Yea, I stay away from those Hurricanes, and it is a sure bet that after one of those a head ache is sure to follow!

[CBQ_Guy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by fiatfan

One thing I have noticed is that whether you use cork, homasote or what ever, once you glue the ballast with white glue/water, the sound absorbing qualities are not as good.

Tom

I wonder if using matte medium (aka Woodland Scenics Scenic Cement) would retain the sound deadening properties as it dries flexible. White glue dries HARD.

[CBQ_Guy]

I have always used the cork roadbed. I could care less if it dries hard or even turns to stone because I won't know about it as it will all be covered with ballast.

[Anonymous]

If I understand some of the entries correctly, some folks are applying adhesives to the ties for fastening to the cork roadbed. Is this widely accepted practise? I have always "spiked" the ties to the cork with Atlas #2540 track nails (1/2 inch long). Mind you, I avoid using "strips" of cork (ala LHS purchase). I buy rolls of cork [at my local hardware store] wide enough to cover a large area in one installation. Elmer's Glue-All seems to work well as a fixitive for the cork to the Homosote "underlaymet." The "Homosote" (1/2 inch) rests on 3/4 inch plywood decking and needs no fasteners. In single and double track areas (over bench work), I have used White Pine with the cork fixed directly to the wood with 1/2 inch track nails. Am I missing the boat here? If adhesives from the ties to the cork is a preferred method; what is the advantage? Duhhh...how come?

[orsonroy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Ted D. Kramer

If I understand some of the entries correctly, some folks are applying adhesives to the ties for fastening to the cork roadbed. Is this widely accepted practise? I have always "spiked" the ties to the cork with Atlas #2540 track nails (1/2 inch long). Mind you, I avoid using "strips" of cork (ala LHS purchase). I buy rolls of cork [at my local hardware store] wide enough to cover a large area in one installation. Elmer's Glue-All seems to work well as a fixitive for the cork to the Homosote "underlaymet." The "Homosote" (1/2 inch) rests on 3/4 inch plywood decking and needs no fasteners. In single and double track areas (over bench work), I have used White Pine with the cork fixed directly to the wood with 1/2 inch track nails. Am I missing the boat here? If adhesives from the ties to the cork is a preferred method; what is the advantage? Duhhh...how come?

Ted,

There are lots of reasons to use glues over nails to lay track: you don't end up with unrealistic nail heads on top of the ties, improperly used nails can shift track out of gauge or catch magnetic coupler wires, and people who build foam-based layouts physically can't use nails (they won't grip the foam). Glue's also generally cheaper and always readily available. However, it's much easier to move track around when using track spikes.