To cork roadbed or not?

[BRAKIE]

I use cork in 2 sizes.N scale for branch line layouts and industrial switching layouts HO for heavy duty main lines.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Paul.

[Paul Milenkovic]

I think what he means is that he uses "O gauge-wide" cork for the "subroadbed" and HO cork for the ballast strip to get a more prototypical look.

I have been using art-store foam-core board -- a wide strip for the base and and narrower strip for the top for that prototype look of ballast poured over a graded subgrade with ditches on the sides for drainage, but I don't know what to do for ballast because you can't get it wet. Maybe I will try to double layer of cork deal, perhaps using ACE hardware cork for the base layer and see how that works.

[Anonymous]

Hi Don, would you mind elaborating a bit more on your comments? My question is did you go from 1/4" cork to 1/2" ballasted Homasote as a replacement for the cork? Then, if I understand your meaning, you returned again to cork "on top of O gauge?" The last question I have is the mention of a "double profile?" Could you clearify this for an old senile Gandy Dancer who has trouble understanding the headlines in the daily newspapers? Thanks Don, I wasn't always this slow. Time and tide have taken their toll.

[Don Gibson]

CORK works good, sounds sood, and looks good.

Back in the 'OLDEN' days we used 1/4" cork. Then ballasted 1/2" Homosote strips looked more real. TODAY HO cork on top of O guage; looks even better (double profile) and talk about sound deadening.....0.4"!

Next time you're out railfanning notice the mainline ballast profile, and if you want to have onboard sound, roadbed can never be be too quiet..

[orsonroy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mktrains

If you use latex caulk, you'll find that disassembly is quite easy and the caulk peels clean from the tracks and the bed.

I've used both silicone and latex caulk, and I'm still not sure which one is best. Yes, the latex caulk does come off much more easily, but that may be a problem in the long run.

I've experimented with just about every sort of adhesive you can think of for glueing down track, and they basically boil down to two kinds: those that work REALLY well, and those that don't work at all in the long run. Silicone caulk and wood glue work well, since they don't like to let go of the track...period. OTOH, I've been burned by whay seemed to be miracle track adhesives like double sided tape and spray adhesive. Neither worked in the long run, and I had track popping up all over the place.

Due to experience, my current default track adhesive is silicone caulk. I've laid about 40-60 feet with the latex stuff, and while it does seem to work OK, we'll see what it's like in a year.

[Anonymous]

mktrains, thanks for the tip. Is removing latex caulk from the ties easier than pulling a track nail from a tie? The "caulk" seems like a good idea for cork to wood, Homasote or foam, more so than fibre ties to roadbed. I may try an experiment using the latter proceedure very soon. Thanks again.

[Anonymous]

If you use latex caulk, you'll find that disassembly is quite easy and the caulk peels clean from the tracks and the bed.

[Anonymous]

orsonroy, thanks for your input. I guess the best rationale for using spikes, cork, Homasote, et al., rather than glue (in my case) is that I often make changes (major and minor) in track plans. Yes, if "foam" is the material of preference for roadbed, then glueing is surely best. After many years of layout building, I opted for the easiest method for making dramatic changes in design. I would not like to think of losing roadbed material plus cleaning-up track and turnouts, etc. due to a hard residue from adhesives. Frankly, the nail heads of the Atlas #2540 Track Nails are barely detectible and with ballast they can't be seen at all. The old "spikes with the huge L shaped heads are not an option for me. Best of luck with your layout Ray and happy railroading.

[siberianmo]

Here's my two cents regarding cork roadbed:

My former HO layout was constructed using this method. The layout occupied a room I built of about 22 ft by 12 ft. I had a double track run with lots of sidings. It ran quite well UNTIL somethng that I had never planned for entered the picture - HUMIDITY.

Yes - humidity along with moisture, mildew and mold.

Let me backup a bit - the railroad was in my basement. The basement was just that - a basement - unfinished, but it has poured concrete floors and walls. However, as with most basements in this part of the continent (mid-America) they tend to be moist. That problem caused my cork roadbed to swell (at times) and then contract (at times). You need only guess what this did to my trackwork. I wound up tearing the entire layout down and put everything away - swearing that I would NEVER get involved with HO again.

Well - here I am - back in the hobby. Only this time, my basement has a whole house dehumidifier/air purifier unit (at no small expense I might add) installed. The place is as comfortable to be in as the living spaces above. My new pike occupies the majority of basement floor space and in fact a trainroom was constructed around the layout. Kind of like building a ship in one's basement!

Anyway, roadbed is attached to the track - yeah, yeah, I know - NOT at all what real hobbyists prefer - but as explained elsewhere in these forums, I have some reasons for going with this stuff. After ballasting over the cheap looking roadbed attached to my nearly 500 pieces of track - my RR runs fine.

So, while I can see the benefits of cork roadbed, my recommendation is to ensure that when it is to be used that humidity (dampness) be taken into account.

[orsonroy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Ted D. Kramer

If I understand some of the entries correctly, some folks are applying adhesives to the ties for fastening to the cork roadbed. Is this widely accepted practise? I have always "spiked" the ties to the cork with Atlas #2540 track nails (1/2 inch long). Mind you, I avoid using "strips" of cork (ala LHS purchase). I buy rolls of cork [at my local hardware store] wide enough to cover a large area in one installation. Elmer's Glue-All seems to work well as a fixitive for the cork to the Homosote "underlaymet." The "Homosote" (1/2 inch) rests on 3/4 inch plywood decking and needs no fasteners. In single and double track areas (over bench work), I have used White Pine with the cork fixed directly to the wood with 1/2 inch track nails. Am I missing the boat here? If adhesives from the ties to the cork is a preferred method; what is the advantage? Duhhh...how come?

Ted,

There are lots of reasons to use glues over nails to lay track: you don't end up with unrealistic nail heads on top of the ties, improperly used nails can shift track out of gauge or catch magnetic coupler wires, and people who build foam-based layouts physically can't use nails (they won't grip the foam). Glue's also generally cheaper and always readily available. However, it's much easier to move track around when using track spikes.

[Anonymous]

If I understand some of the entries correctly, some folks are applying adhesives to the ties for fastening to the cork roadbed. Is this widely accepted practise? I have always "spiked" the ties to the cork with Atlas #2540 track nails (1/2 inch long). Mind you, I avoid using "strips" of cork (ala LHS purchase). I buy rolls of cork [at my local hardware store] wide enough to cover a large area in one installation. Elmer's Glue-All seems to work well as a fixitive for the cork to the Homosote "underlaymet." The "Homosote" (1/2 inch) rests on 3/4 inch plywood decking and needs no fasteners. In single and double track areas (over bench work), I have used White Pine with the cork fixed directly to the wood with 1/2 inch track nails. Am I missing the boat here? If adhesives from the ties to the cork is a preferred method; what is the advantage? Duhhh...how come?

[CBQ_Guy]

I have always used the cork roadbed. I could care less if it dries hard or even turns to stone because I won't know about it as it will all be covered with ballast.

[CBQ_Guy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by fiatfan

One thing I have noticed is that whether you use cork, homasote or what ever, once you glue the ballast with white glue/water, the sound absorbing qualities are not as good.

Tom

I wonder if using matte medium (aka Woodland Scenics Scenic Cement) would retain the sound deadening properties as it dries flexible. White glue dries HARD.

[SilverSpike]

Ted,
Thanks for the reply on the sanding sealer question! Yes, I will be sticking with cork, seems like plenty of people have positive results with its application.
I saw an advertisement for that G scale Pearly Thomas, and I am with you, not ready to take out a second loan just yet!
Yea, I stay away from those Hurricanes, and it is a sure bet that after one of those a head ache is sure to follow!

[Anonymous]

SilverSpike, yes a "hug" is too risky. Perhaps a "hug'" for the Pastry Chef at Arnauds would be better, although that could be dangerous too. Maybe just sip a Hurricane at the Famous Door for me? I assume your choice is definitely cork? Good decision, you won't regret it. Sanding sealer is a general term for a clear varnish consisting of shellac or gum resins disolved in alcohol and other quick drying solvents. Ryan, you won't need to worry about "crumbling" cork in your climate. If you lived near the Mojave Desert that would be a different matter. I live on Florida's West Coast and, believe me, I know what you mean about humidity. Did you know that LBJ has come out with a Pearly Thomas Car in G gauge (1-29 I believe)? I would like to buy one but I'm not quite ready to mortgage my house just yet. Best of luck on your layout.

[Anonymous]

I strongly insist that anyone go for the cork experience. It is much quieter. I do not have my track ballasted right now and its quieter than on the WS foambed. I watch my trains run from the WS stuff over to cork and get quieter. It kinda gets me a bit mad because I wish all my track was Corked. Damn man that is a lesson learned though. Once you go cork you never go back.

[SilverSpike]

Great input from all on the "Cork Controversy"!!!!

After my first day’s review of this post, I would say that cork is a majority choice among model railroaders. If this were a poll it would probably be 85% for cork, and then 10% for the WS foam stuff, then 5% for other (Homasote, etc)

Yours in model railroading,

Ryan
.

[rrinker]

I ballasted a section on the test module with WS ballast, held in with white glue and rubbing alcohol. After it dried completely, to my ears, the ballasted part is even QUIETER than the non-ballasted section on the WS foam. I didn't ballast the cork section. The test module is louder than my actual layout, because it is just a 2x2 section of foam with no framework of any sort around it. The only thing that's loud on the actual layout is my father in law's Bowser PRR T-1, but, well, that thing is just plain LOUD running upside down on the bench. Put THAT on the unsceniced foam, and, well, it's VERY loud.

--Randy

[AggroJones]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker

Aggro, what you observed is exactly opposite of what I found. I laid a test strip of flextrack with cork under one end and the WS foam under the other, and every car I rolled over it was louder on the CORK side, not the foam side.
Maybe it's the fastening method? I used latex caulk, which itself never gets hard to conduct sound like white glue or Liquid Nails do. But I used the same thing on both the cork and foam side.
Maybe it's the subsurface - I am using extruded foam, not wood.

--Randy

Was the track ballasted though? From my experience, with track laid on WS foam-bed, trains ran quieter than on cork. But after ballasting, cork was quieter. Both were secured with 1" pins and white glue on 1" beaded foam base.

[rrinker]

Aggro, what you observed is exactly opposite of what I found. I laid a test strip of flextrack with cork under one end and the WS foam under the other, and every car I rolled over it was louder on the CORK side, not the foam side.
Maybe it's the fastening method? I used latex caulk, which itself never gets hard to conduct sound like white glue or Liquid Nails do. But I used the same thing on both the cork and foam side.
Maybe it's the subsurface - I am using extruded foam, not wood.

--Randy

[Jetrock]

Foamcore is not a good roadbed material--the paper swells and peels off when it gets damp.

I have used the Woodland Scenics roadbed and found it easy to work with, but generally I don't use roadbed at all--I nail my track directly to my MDF tabletop, and then apply either ballast or styrene street surface. MDF is a great absorber of sound, I guess, or maybe I just like a loud layout because I have never noticed a noise problem.

[lonewoof]

I'm curious if anyone has ever used "art board" (or whatever it's called) for roadbed? It's that foam material that has paper on both sides, about 1/8" or 3/13" thick (may come in other thicknesses, for all I kn ow).

[Anonymous]

I have always used cork roadbed and never had any problem with it. It is easy to work with. I can't imagine anything easier to work with. My feeling is that if it isn't broke, don't fix it. I will always use cork roadbed. I know from previous experience that I will be happy with it. Why use an "unknown" product when you are thrilled with cork?

[AggroJones]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Biggie Smalls

Silver just as Spacemouse stated awhen you use cork roadbed it seriously cuts down he nose much better than the WS roadbed. In fact I laid some track last night on my layout and used the cork I have and from the transitiion of WS roadbed to the cork is a big difference. I really wish I did my whole layout with Cork but I used that crappy WS foam stuff. I really have to insist that you or anyone ready to do roadbed to use cork.

Exactly. Thats what I learned from my last layout. The new one has no WS foam crap at all. I saved and use the old cork by soaking it to make them flexible again. That WS stuff is sitting in a box, just in case I need it for another project.

Always go with cork!

[Anonymous]

Silver just as Spacemouse stated awhen you use cork roadbed it seriously cuts down he nose much better than the WS roadbed. In fact I laid some track last night on my layout and used the cork I have and from the transitiion of WS roadbed to the cork is a big difference. I really wish I did my whole layout with Cork but I used that crappy WS foam stuff. I really have to insist that you or anyone ready to do roadbed to use cork.

[SilverSpike]

QUOTE: Ted D. Kramer

Crumbling cork should not be a problem, especially in the high humidity of New Orleans. However, in a dry climate, it wouldn't hurt to apply a coat of sanding sealer. Please give my regards to Arnauds and the Court of Two Sisters and a big hug for the Pearly Thomas Cars on St. Charles Street.

Ted,
Both restaurants you mentioned are still recovering from the Mardi Gras hangover, especially since they both are in the French Quarter. The Pearly Thomas Streetcars pass the building I work at all day long here on St. Charles Avenue. I will definitely give them a big wave, but hugs would be too dangerous, in spirit a hug is in order!

You are right about the humidity down here, 100 percent is the norm. I have heard of the cork rolls product available at HD or Lowe’s, thanks for reminding me of that option. We have an Ace HW just down street so I’ll have to check that one out too! BTW, what is sanding sealer?

Thanks,

Ryan

[Anonymous]

Being a frugal (cheap) person, I bought the cork needed at an "Ace Hardware" Store. It is available in various thickness and up to 8' lengths (rolls). I hope they still carry it. If not perhaps "Home Depot?" The LHS is a little pricey. Most of my road is of Homasote underlayment...good accoustically, cheap price, easily roughed for texture, takes paint well, pourous enough to add light & utility poles easily, etc. Be sure to wear protective glasses and face mask when ripping with a saw! Not sophisticated enough? You can always spend more on foam. Crumbling cork should not be a problem, especially in the high humidity of New Orelans. However, in a dry climate, it wouldn't hurt to apply a coat of sanding sealer. Please give my regards to Arnauds and the Court of Two Sisters and a big hug for the Pearly Thomas Cars on St. Charles Street.

[SilverSpike]

Thanks for all the tips on cork roadbed.

I would also imagine that the white glue and water mixture as an adhesive used to apply ballast would help preserve the cork too. I have also seen photos where some people paint a thinned out layer of white or gray latex paint onto the cork before laying track. This coating would probably help to preserve the life of the cork.

Yes, dpaton, you have my curiosity peaked too! What is the “nice stuff”?

Thanks again,

Ryan