Up front, let me point out that I'm a member of the BoD of the Nickel Plate Historical & Technical Society. We are in the midst of trying to find out what brings new members onboard as well as what causes current members to allow their memberships to lapse. So I'm asking each of you who read this to share why you are or why you aren't a member of your favorite railroad's historical society.
The board of the NKPHTS feels that the future of most "fallen flag" historical society will be modeling so this forum seems like a great place to get some answers regarding membership. We obviously see that employees of a railroad that exissted sixty years ago are becoming more and more scarse. Even sons and daughters of those folks aren't really all that plentiful any more. So the connection to the NKP is through modeling that road. Many manufacturers have helped along those lines and today, there are more and more models being produced of smaller, older lines instead of just those larger ones. The NKPHTS tries very hard to cater to the needs of modelers as does other historical societies and, while model railroading still seems to be a popular pasttime, potential members for ANY historical society seem to be fewer and fewer.
So kindly share your thoughts on joining or not joining the historical society of your favorite railroad, past or present.
Thanks!
Dan Merkel, NKPHTS Special Projects Director.
My thoughts -- speaking as a long term member of the Chicago & North Western Historical Society, as well as of the Wisconsin Chapter of the National Railway Historical Society. I am a modeler (of the C&NW) and a railfan with an interest in the history of the C&NW and the current operations on former CNW tracks, but also broader interests (hence my membership in the NRHS). I was a member of the C&NWHS well before I switched to modeling the C&NW (had been a Pennsy modeler before that).
So - why join?
1. Focus -- the organization, its website, its magazine (the C&NWHS "Modeler" is online only but the paper magazine, a quarterly, has some modeling content now and then) is all CNW and associated railroads. My back issues of North Western Lines (and I have acquired a complete set going back to the 1970s) are an incredible resource of information, photos, drawings, maps, track plans, informed discussion and important updates. I could wait 1000 years for MR, RMC, Trains, and R&R magazines to have that much C&NW content. Name the railroad -- and the same would be true for that railroad as well. And that is no knock on those magazines -- they exist to please a broad audience but for my favorite railroad and the one I model, I am a narrow audience.
2. Preservation. I am not speaking here of rolling stock and structures although railroad historical societies have played a role in that as well. I mean the preservation, archiving, and dissemination of information and materials. Timetables. Track charts. Authorization for Expenditures (an inportant resource for freight car and structure historians and modelers. A repository for photo collections. Employee records. Rule books. The list could go on. There are many individual collectors and specialists with incredible collections. And their heirs are going to do what with that stuff when the time comes, as alas it always does? One option is the dumpster. The other option is the historical society devoted to preserving just that stuff. Who knows what future generations will find interesting about the C&NW or any other fallen flag, but if the key stuff is not preserved in a central location, it becomes sort of a moot point.
3. Expertise. This is related to "focus." An historical society is a natural gathering site for those who know -- no one can know it all, but an assemblage of persons who know a lot can come close to knowing it all. Model manufacturers have benefitted from having historical societies that can provide them with the info and data they need to produce accurate and consistent models. Some otherwise fine models of the past had serious faults along those lines perhaps due to photographs being used from different eras to produce one model. I want accurate C&NW models, or stated another way, I'd like to avoid acquiring inaccurate models if I can help it.
4. Fellowship. I enjoy NMRA meets and conventions, but again I go to them without expecting much C&NW content. The C&NWHS meetings are both good information, often new (to me) information, and a chance to reunite with friends of long standing, and to admire some incredible CNW modeling.
In looking at my list I keep returning to this notion of "focus." My interests in trains and modeling are pretty broad, but I have a special interest in the C&NW and exactly ONE organization exists to serve that special interest and that is why I belong and am a contributing member.
I know the NMRA always struggles with this difficult issue of "the dues are too high given the value of the magazine." they are always creating lists of what more you get out of the organization than just the magazine. Well I think my dues to the C&NWHS are a reasonable price to pay for their magazine PLUS I know they do so much more with my money for things that I also support and benefit from.
I might add that from time to time I also purchase the magazines of the Soo Line, Milwaukee Road, Rock Island, and some other midwestern railroad historical societies, when the issue has something of interest, say a story about a town or city I have railfanned in and want to know more about. As stated earlier I could wait forever for a general interest magazine to get around to that story. It's more likely to be found in the publication of the specific railroad's historical society magazine or website.
Why NOT join? Well I do know some historical societies that have had leadership issues and internal squabbles and ended up no longer publishing their magazine for long periods of time, or have gone belly up. Fortunately that is rare, but they were historical societies devoted to some pretty major railroads. I think most people would be able to decide pretty quickly if the historical society they have joined is "worth it" to them -- but I'd advise them to take advantage of everything the society has to offer including annual meets and local meets before reaching any conclusions.
Dave Nelson
I am a member of 4 socities the CGW, the EJ&E. the CC as well as the Milwaukee road. The CGW I use for modeling purposes while the other 3 are simply cause I like those RRs.
I grew up on Long Island so my early exposure to trains was the Long Island Railroad, the Route of the Dashing Commuter. It would not have been an exciting railroad to model. After I moved to the Boston, I was a suburbanite, although for a while I lived across the street from the train tracks, again it was a commuter rail line for Boston's MBTA. So, I never developed a real connection with a home road.
As a modeler, I picked the Milwaukee in the Transition Era, so I've stuck with that. I haven't really thought about joining a historical society, though.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I think historical societies are a very important part of the maintenance of knowledge of railroads - and history in general - and am a proud member of a few. However, if you are just interested in modeling information, I'd recommend just buying the odd back issues that are relevant to your modeling interests (in particular for larger historical societies). There are lots of benefits besides that, and of course you are supporting an important endeavor.
The exception, in my opinion, is for more minor railroads. Obviously there are major amounts of work done to archive the Pennsylvania Railroad, or the New York Central system, but the smaller scale railroads really benefit from these societies, and often end up being centered around enthusiastic modelers. They can help bring together widely disparate collections, and bring them to your attention. My prototype, the Copper Range, has photos in archives all around the US in various, often inaccessible collections, and the efforts of that organization have brought those resources to light.
danmerkelThe board of the NKPHTS feels that the future of most "fallen flag" historical society will be modeling so this forum seems like a great place to get some answers regarding membership. ...
I'm suprised that a rail historical society so closely associated with an active steam engine/train fantrip operation seems to be forgetting railfans who are interested in the history of the trains they ride, and might not be active modlers. I am more of an armchair modeler/collector, but I belong to the NRHS to support history, preservation and train rides.
I think you are missing feedback if you don't also post the thread in the Trains forum.
The one thing I will add to the discussion is not to throw out suggestions that "younger" members might make (and demean them in the process).
I was part of one pre-pandemic and would attend the conventions anytime they were within resonable traveling distance. (e.g. bus as I don't drive) A number of years ago when we were discussing recruitment I made the impertinent (at least to certain members) gesture of suggesting getting a Facebook page. Many of my generation seem to be getting them. I basically was yelled at that the only thing social media was good for is trolling everything. (My words as I don't remember the exact words but that was the intent.) To this day, I think it had to do with the fact I was one the youngest people there. The convention organizer (who used FB to promote it) that year felt for me as well as he couldn't understand the comment. I attended one more convention after that and still didn't feel welcome. (My models did however as I have gotten compliments there.) I decmided to not renew my membership.
A very intersting thread imo.
Here in the U.K. I am interested in the North British Railway up to 1923 (when it became part of the London & North Eastern Railway. Seeking inforrmation on the NBR I get from books and that satisfies my curiosity on the Company.
My other interesting railway company is the Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway; which my layout is loosely based upon.
I joined the Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway Society. The information and pictures from the quarterly magazines etc. have been and are a godsend to me. Such information on operations, signalling, buildings and rolling stock is immense and not available on the open market.
David
To the world you are someone. To someone you are the world
I cannot afford the luxury of a negative thought
I've been a long time (probably about 30 years) of the PRR Technical & Historical Society. I contribute some amount above the base membership for preservation of the archives, and for the modeling magazine. In my opinion the base membership is worth it if only for the super high quality glossy magazine (the Keystone) that comes out quarterly, with fascenating articles on the history of the PRR. In addition, there is a good online site with reference material, books available (with discount for members) in the library, and an excellent (also quarterly) online modeling magazine. Unfortunately, each issue of the Keystone includes obituaries of the older members, many who worked for the PRR and Penn Central, who have passed. Not sure what the demographics of the society look like but there seems to be an emphesis on archiving and preservation, and capturing the reminiscenses of the former employees who remain. It seems that there is quite a lot of effort on the preservation side with the T-1 and K-4 projects. I have been pleasently surprised at what appears to be real progress, especially on the latter.
I am a long time member of the ATSF Railway Historical and Modeling Society. I enjoy the conventions even though I have only attended 3 in the last 40 years; work gets in the way more often than not. I also enjoy the books they have published. I am amused sometimes at how hyper-focused some folks get on modeling prototypically. I do not have the time, skills or resources to count rivets. To each their own.
I have made purchases from a couple of historical societies and authored an article for the magazine of a third historical society, but I have never joined a historical society as a member.
I model Dearborn Station in downtown Chicago. Seven different railroads used Dearborn Starion and the trackage was owned by an eighth railroad. I am not about to join eight different historical societies, although all eight railroads are of interest to me.
Rich
Alton Junction
I joined the New Haven Railroad Historical & Technical Association (nhrhta.org) back in 1990 and started volunteering to staff train shows to sell our NH-related products.Today, I run the train show crew, produce the quartely Shoreliner magazine and annual calendar, run the NHRHTA Facebook page, and "nitpick" NH models produced by manufacturers. In my spare time, I also scan NH slides and large NH documents for preservation. You could say I am involved. I joined the NHRHTA because it was the railroad that used to run by my house before I was born. Growing up in the 1980s, modern railroading through my town was dull and boring, and the NH seemed to do everything better and more often. My dad gave me the 1988 20th Anniversary Edition of Passenger Train Journal:"Dedicated to the Late, Great, New Haven Railroad." I've been hooked ever since.The NHRHTA was the very first single-railroad association, est. in 1961. All previous groups were national or regional in nature, like the R&LHS, NRHS, RRE, NMRA, etc.We were founded as a modeling organization and had official ties to the NH's PR Dept.; we answered questions sent in to the PR Dept. and they printed our newsletters. We later turned into a historical group after the NH disappeared into Penn Central.We have an annual Reunion & Train Show (this Sept. 14th in Essex, Conn.), where we sell calendars, DVDs, decals, hats, glassware, books, models, etc., plus we have other dealers there plus the live museum steam engines of the Valley Railroad to look at. We have seen an increase in memberships lately and we have a new, younger president who is keen to do new things, like rare mileage trips, buffet banquets, summer cookouts for volunteers, and so on.We're probably most famous for these days is the line of NH passenger cars made in partnership with Rapido Trains. We supplied them with half the tooling cost to create the coach, parlor, diner, and 'County' cars, then got to sell them to raise money for the next car. We put our money where our mouth is and it's paid off for us.One of our other big accomplishments was when we helped create the Railroad Archives at the University of Connecticut in Storrs, Conn. They have all the buiness records of the NHRR, and they have since become a leading railroad archive collection.As a modeler and railroad historian/collector, joining the historical organization for the railroad you model is just fundamental and everyone should do it if they can.
I'm a member of the Tennessee Central Railway Museum in Nashville. My primary reason for membership is that the Museum has a small MR Hobby store which stocks most of the basic MRR supply items, but also offers any item in the Walthers Catalog at a 25% discount, and as you pick it up at the store (staffed by volunteers, and hours are Saturdays 10am to 2pm) so there is no shipping charge. This is the "go-to" MRR store in Nashville and a significant revenue generator for the Museum, so I would encourage any club/society to explore this concept.
The Museum houses two MRR Clubs (HO & N) none of which I belong to as 1) I have my own large layout to work on, and 2) I'm an anthracite RR modeler and NE PA is a long way from Central Tennesse.
The Museum also offers a large, year-around schedule of train excursions.
Jim
I did join the Santa Fe Railway Historical and Modeling Society in the past, several years ago, and was a sustaining member for a few years.
However, I was frustrated at that time by the overall national focus on the period between 1940 and 1971 (the birth of Amtrak). There seemed to be outright hostility from the "Steam Mafia" (a term used by one member of the SFRHMS national Board of Directors whom I personally knew) toward fans of the 1970's and later Santa Fe eras. He was in the relative minority of those of us who liked more modern Santa Fe trains.
Ultimately my frustrations with the direction of the national society were such that I chose not to renew my subscription. I did not feel that my interests were adquately represented in the Society's quarterly publication at that time.
John
PS For those and various other reasons, I basically became a lone wolf modeler, ironically now mainly interested in Texas & Pacific steam.
This is a very interesting discussion! I've not ever joined a historical society. The N&W might have some useful information available, but I think a lot can be had from looking online and talking here.
With various costs I endure, I cannot stomach spending for a historical society membership.
I could possibly stomach spending for a membership IF I could limit my interests to just one or two railroads. Historically I have had issues doing that. There's just too much that I like.
It is not fully accurate for me to say that I'm a "lone wolf" modeler because at various times I have been an informal "lodge" member, with people I met at local train stores. On "lodge" nights we get together and run our trains, of whatever roadname one cares to run. I always felt that I learned more from my friends, who have had quite diverse railroad tastes, than from a larger or more formal historical society.
Some of my friends are dead and gone, but their open-minded approach toward buying HO models still influences me. I was never particularly a big fan of the C&O flying pumps and elesco feedwater heater on the front of the smokebox, but my "lodge" friends all were, so partly in memory of a couple of them I have bought the BLI C&O K-2, and now I can appreciate that look.
So due to the people I've met and run trains with, my tastes have changed a lot over the last 25 years, and there's things that I better understand now than I did back in the day.
Other people who know they love only one or two railroads may prefer the membership in a society.