Overmodad the electrification been extended to Pittsburgh on the 1943 plan (very likely had Majestic been required against Japan!) there would be even more impetus to adopt the Garrett AiResearch 'dual-mode-lite' proposal -- which includes very detailed kitbash instructions that are not much more involved externally than sticking a Brecknell-Willis pan and some other stuff on six-motor dash-2s. This just operates diesel west of Conway instead of Enola.
1) The plan for the invasion of Japan was Downfall - consisting of Olympic (Nov 45) to secure bases on Kyushu by 6th Army and Coronet (Mar 46) to invade the Kanto Plain by 1st and 8th Army Operation Downfall - Wikipedia
2) The idea of "rip out the diesel and install a rectifier bank and pantographs" proved to be VERY simplistic when the railroads and manufacturers examined the idea from the Fifties on.
BEAUSABRE Overmod ad the electrification been extended to Pittsburgh on the 1943 plan (very likely had Majestic been required against Japan!) there would be even more impetus to adopt the Garrett AiResearch 'dual-mode-lite' proposal -- which includes very detailed kitbash instructions that are not much more involved externally than sticking a Brecknell-Willis pan and some other stuff on six-motor dash-2s. This just operates diesel west of Conway instead of Enola. 1) The plan for the invasion of Japan was Downfall - consisting of Olympic (Nov 45) to secure bases on Kyushu by 6th Army and Coronet (Mar 46) to invade the Kanto Plain by 1st and 8th Army Operation Downfall - Wikipedia 2) The idea of "rip out the diesel and install a rectifier bank and pantographs" proved to be VERY simplistic when the railroads and manufacturers examined the idea from the Fifties on.
Overmod ad the electrification been extended to Pittsburgh on the 1943 plan (very likely had Majestic been required against Japan!) there would be even more impetus to adopt the Garrett AiResearch 'dual-mode-lite' proposal -- which includes very detailed kitbash instructions that are not much more involved externally than sticking a Brecknell-Willis pan and some other stuff on six-motor dash-2s. This just operates diesel west of Conway instead of Enola.
it would definitely make a good point to kitbash from - EMD's GM6C from the mid 70s is visually similar to the road diesels of the time, besides around the cab.
It isn't all that different from an SD40-2
Yeah, I've got my massive invasion of the home islands confused with... well, conspiracies, I guess. See the history.navy.mil "H-Gram" 057 for a good account of the historical details, including factors that would have stretched the time out past the anticipated 18-month window.
The point was that very serious westbound traffic from the industrial Northeast could be expected as wartime provisioning and logistics shifted from Atlantic to Pacific. Among other things this could be expected to make much additional work for the Q2s right up to their capacity west of Pittsburgh, but clearly an extension of electric capability from Enola to Conway would have been a significant benefit in that respect. (Note that traffic from Pittsburgh west, and from what has now become the Rust Belt, was likely a significant factor in assessing the electrification up to 1943, but wouldn't have benefited much from it after whatever date VE would fall...)
Something I don't know, but one of the PRR enthusiasts in a group like PRR-FAX might, is whether the 1943 electrification scheme did have massive Pacific invasion planning involved in its scope.
BEAUSABRE2) The idea of "rip out the diesel and install a rectifier bank and pantographs" proved to be VERY simplistic when the railroads and manufacturers examined the idea from the Fifties on.
See this reference for the original Garrett project summary (the detailed technical report is available, but it's painfully dated now) where you can see some of the principles involved.
https://railroads.dot.gov/sites/fra.dot.gov/files/fra_net/15203/PB81191314%5B1%5D.pdf
Notably, the operating paradigm was to size 'run-through' trains to what the lower diesel-generated horsepower could sustain, with the catenary used for helping/snapping on grades or to permit the diesel engines to be idled or stopped as desired in fully-electrified territory. This provides a useful transition for buildout of an electrification project (several examples are demonstrated) and there are certain other inherent advantages still valuable today.
Modelers may want to examine volume 4 (which was nominally a 'wayside storage' examination but doesn't seem to take that up in proper detail) for the 'revised arrangement' that accommodated the cab changes in the late Seventies (it looks a little funny but would have been preferable).
https://rosap.ntl.bts.gov/view/dot/8794/dot_8794_DS1.pdf
It would not involve rocket-science levels of analysis to apply the idea to S580 and later improvements, or to higher-horsepower diesel units...
OvermodThe point was that very serious westbound traffic from the industrial Northeast could be expected as wartime provisioning and logistics shifted from Atlantic to Pacific. Among other things this could be expected to make much additional work for the Q2s right up to their capacity west of Pittsburgh, but clearly an extension of electric capability from Enola to Conway would have been a significant benefit in that respect. (Note that traffic from Pittsburgh west, and from what has now become the Rust Belt, was likely a significant factor in assessing the electrification up to 1943, but wouldn't have benefited much from it after whatever date VE would fall...)
As a retired career military officer, I am well aware of the logistics demands Downfall would impose (in the railroad context, that's why SP and ATSF bought a) obsolete steam power (SP) ex-B&M 2-8-4's and machines not well suited to their operations (ATSF) slow ex-N&W compounds on a high speed railroad, maybe UP's second purchase of Big Boys). And the demands on the "transcontinentals" were going to get even worse
Perhaps the largest impediment to wartime PRR electrification over the Hill to Pittsburgh was the massive amount of copper needed. This vital material was needed for production huge quantities of electronics, armored fighting vehicles, ships and aircraft - demand that was expected in 1943 only to vastly increase in 1944 and 1945. So the WPB would cast a dubious eye on that project and tell the PRR 1) to buy more steam (which used little copper) 2) start buying diesels (PRR wouldn't let EMD's FT demonstrator #103 on the railroad on its coast to coast barnstorming tour) - by comparison, diesel-electrics used less copper than full electrification. Plus, where was the manpower to erect the electrification going to come from in a war time economy? Rosie the Riveter, bringing retirees back into the work force, importing labor from Mexico, etc only went so far in making up for men (16 million of them would be mobilized) called up to fight.
So much as I like the idea of GG1's and DD2's on Horseshoe Curve, sadly, it must just be a dream.
BEAUSABRE Overmod The point was that very serious westbound traffic from the industrial Northeast could be expected as wartime provisioning and logistics shifted from Atlantic to Pacific. Among other things this could be expected to make much additional work for the Q2s right up to their capacity west of Pittsburgh, but clearly an extension of electric capability from Enola to Conway would have been a significant benefit in that respect. (Note that traffic from Pittsburgh west, and from what has now become the Rust Belt, was likely a significant factor in assessing the electrification up to 1943, but wouldn't have benefited much from it after whatever date VE would fall...) As a retired career military officer, I am well aware of the logistics demands Downfall would impose (in the railroad context, that's why SP and ATSF bought a) obsolete steam power (SP) ex-B&M 2-8-4's and machines not well suited to their operations (ATSF) slow ex-N&W compounds on a high speed railroad, maybe UP's second purchase of Big Boys). And the demands on the "transcontinentals" were going to get even worse Perhaps the largest impediment to wartime PRR electrification over the Hill to Pittsburgh was the massive amount of copper needed. This vital material was needed for production huge quantities of electronics, armored fighting vehicles, ships and aircraft - demand that was expected in 1943 only to vastly increase in 1944 and 1945. So the WPB would cast a dubious eye on that project and tell the PRR 1) to buy more steam (which used little copper) 2) start buying diesels (PRR wouldn't let EMD's FT demonstrator #103 on the railroad on its coast to coast barnstorming tour) - by comparison, diesel-electrics used less copper than full electrification. Plus, where was the manpower to erect the electrification going to come from in a war time economy? Rosie the Riveter, bringing retirees back into the work force, importing labor from Mexico, etc only went so far in making up for men (16 million of them would be mobilized) called up to fight. So much as I like the idea of GG1's and DD2's on Horseshoe Curve, sadly, it must just be a dream.
Overmod The point was that very serious westbound traffic from the industrial Northeast could be expected as wartime provisioning and logistics shifted from Atlantic to Pacific. Among other things this could be expected to make much additional work for the Q2s right up to their capacity west of Pittsburgh, but clearly an extension of electric capability from Enola to Conway would have been a significant benefit in that respect. (Note that traffic from Pittsburgh west, and from what has now become the Rust Belt, was likely a significant factor in assessing the electrification up to 1943, but wouldn't have benefited much from it after whatever date VE would fall...)
That copper demand gave the last big push to the big copper producers in Michigan's Copper Mines - Quincy, Calumet and Hecla, and Copper Range Consolidated all expanded operations for the first time since the last war's copper boom. It was all pretty short lived and most operations were shuttered by the end of the war. The industry puttered on until the 60s, though one mine stuck around in various forms until the 90s. Australian Copper in particular was far more cost effective, despite the higher level of processing needed.
allegedlynerdy But, what of compromises made to history?
But, what of compromises made to history?
I would consider mine fairlly big. My time frame is primarily 1983. That has been stretched a little to accommodate rolling stock, but the big change in history has to do with the sale of Conrail.
I have Sante Fe motive power but I didn't want to do western scenery, so on my railroad the Sante Fe bought a chunk of Conrail including trackage in Pennsylvania a little earlier than the deal that was struck with NS and CSX. That allows me to run through Allegeheny mountain scenery and an east coast style city.
Rick
Very interesting topic.
My freelanced fictional road as most of you know is the ATLANTIC CENTRAL, a major carrier in the Mid Atlantic region. The time is September 1954.
The modeled section of the ATLANTIC CENTRAL covers areas of central and western Maryland, northern West Virginia and Virginia, and south central Pennsylvania.
The place names are mostly real, but not in their correct geographic location or relationship to each other. The track plan makes no effort to fit into a real map of the region, but rather to simply capture typical features and scenery of the region.
There are some scenes which capture the spirit of specific prototype places, but again they are not exact, not named the same, and lack geographic sequence to real life.
Within the modeled portions are interchanges and trackage rights sharing with the B&O, C&O and WESTERN MARYLAND.
I am pretty fussy about only having locomotives that the three prototype lines had.
And all ATLANTIC CENTRAL power are locos that both exisited in 1954 and that would have been typical for a Class I in this region - there are no ATLANTIC CENTRAL Big Boys........., or 80" driver Northerns like a GS4.
Rolling stock is similarly pretty correct for the period. But "close enough" and "generic" rollng stock is fine as long as it looks the part.
My one big history cheat is this - The government was smarter than they were in real life - and deregulated both trucking and railroads in 1953 rather than 1983.
WHY? Because I like early piggyback and wanted to model piggyback equipment from all over the country. Full interchange of piggyback simply did not happen that early for a list of complex reasons, most relating to the slow and gradual changes in regulations.
So I run piggyback trains with equipment from all over the country. here are just a few examples of the fleet of over 150 piggyback cars.
Another one of my little history changes invlove these cars:
In real life only a few of these were built and tested, but in my world they proved successful and we have a small fleet that serve the COMMONWEALTH MOTORS assembly plant. COMMONWEALTH MOTORS is another fictional change to history where a renamed CHECKER MOTORS absorbs several other small makes to become one of the big "four" auto makers.
As much as I appreciate prototype accuracy in models, I have never been able to model just one, or even a few, actual prototype railroads. I never had much interest in trying to model the scenery of a specific place, or limiting the trains to those that would be seen there.
So this is what works for me.
It has been a busy summer with work, but layout construction is progressing and is about to speed up. One factor has been having many of my tools on a long term project an hour from here, not practical to keep dragging them back and forth too much. That project is done, working on smaller jobs close to home, makes layout time much easier.
Sheldon
Well I cannot escape my love for Alco Century series diesels. If I want to model a railroad that had a high percentage of Centuries, and for various reasons that won't be SP&S or GB&W or Cartier, then I am kinda left with Lehigh Valley and D&H in the northeast
Both LV and D&H were essentially bridge lines by the 1970's, and some of perhaps the most scenic portions of the LV are at this late date a ghost railroad: tracks torn up and gone such that people who knew where the trackage was cannot even find the roadbed today, due to Pennsylvania forests taking back the right-of-way.
So modeling portions of what is now a ghost railroad allows lots of room for creative license. There are books about the LV, but plenty of room exists for fantasy.
LV C628s were my favorite locomotive for a while...but you're leaving out the Northeastern railroads with the most businesslike C636s: PRR and then PC. I still remember one coming through Trenton Station in the mid-Seventies, exhaust rap so loud it hurt the ears.
And then there is the Alco 'alternative' to the E44s -- low cab, either 6000 or 6400hp -- to be numbered in the horsepower series. All I've seen is a scaled elevation drawing, but for 'alternative history of the finest Century kind -- there you are.
PRR8259 ...some of perhaps the most scenic portions of the LV are at this late date a ghost railroad: tracks torn up and gone such that people who knew where the trackage was cannot even find the roadbed today, due to Pennsylvania forests taking back the right-of-way.
At least the LV mainline thru Pennsylvania is intact, including the CNJ segments that the LV migrated to. I was lucky to ride the line between Pittston and Jim Thorp in 2010 during an NRHS convention.
Speaking of Alcos, there are plenty running on the nearby ex-Lackawanna.
My proto-lance concept bends the timeline in 1987. AWTEC outbids G&W for the ex-BR&P when CSX puts it up for sale, giving the Pittsburg & Shawmut control over what would have become the BPRR. The P&S main is never abandoned, except the Brookville to Dellwood segment, and the BR&P third sub remains as the Buffalo connection. The low grade and Piney Branch purchase goes through as it did in reality. The A&E acquisition as well.
As history developed after:
-In '93 a small segment of the defunct LEF&C is purchased, servicing Glen Gary Brick in Summerville
-the Knox & Kane is purchased after the Kinzua bridge collapse in '03, with the Piney Branch being rebuilt the rest of the way to Clarion Jct. to tie in from the south (IRL a large chemical plant wanted to locate on the line in the early 2000's) The later natural gas boom saw the line become busy with frac sand traffic as well. The line between Kane and Mt. Jewett is used as a short cut for petroleum traffic moving north off the A&E.(another real discussion in the mid 2010's)
-the B&LE is purchased as a sister road in '04 instead of CN taking over. Coal still moves north to the lakes. As a pet project, some big steam makes its way into the restored Greenville roundhouse.
- The Winfield Railroad is rebuilt in 2008, along with a short stretch of the Butler Branch down to NS, with trackage rights a short distance to the P&S Freeport terminus, to service the large Armstrong Cement plant.
-the C&M is rebuilt to connect to RJC's Clearfield Cluster as a joint effort between the railroads and the state in 2016 (another real life proposal)
- The regulatory noose tightening on coal fired plants in the late 2000s-early 2010s never happens, coal fired plants and steam coal loadouts served by the railroad remain healthy.
Steam is still prevalent on my layout in the early to mid 1960s. Because i like steam engines. And, in n scale, i now have more choices in steam power then i did say 15-20 years ago.
Dual-era modeling is what I'm starting to call my own approach: when I started out modeling Sacramento Northern nearly 20 years ago, I was primarily interested in later diesel operation of the 1950s-60s. Over the following decade I got more interested in electric freight motors, eventually purchasing and remotoring some, so decided my modeling would focus on the early 1950s era when the area I model had both electric freight motors and diesels operating on the same route. But then I started buying passenger interurban equipment that stopped running in 1940! My official excuse was that passenger runs on my nominally freight-only line were fan trips of the late 1940s. But as my skills, interest in interurban modeling, and, frankly, my disposable income grew, I built up more equipment appropriate to a 1920s-30s interurban line.
So my latest concept is "dual era" as you mention, with the ability to alternate between 1930s and 1960s eras (and nominally a middle era of early 1950s); fortunately, things didn't change that much architecturally in much of the area I'm modeling, so a lot of my layout's buildings are just as appropriate for 1920 as 1970 (many of them still exist today!) which means all I have to do to convincingly switch eras is swap out the motive power, and if I want, the autos on the layout, substituting 1920s-30s cars for 1940s-50s models. I may eventually come up with a couple of "drop-in" buildings for a more complete era switch.
Part of the appeal of dual-era modeling: it's an excuse to purchase more rolling stock, motive power, etc., than can ordinarily fit on the layout, because obviously I don't want your 1960s diesels pulling around 1920s wooden billboard reefers, or a box motor retired in 1940 with a string of 1960s covered hoppers! Not that I needed an excuse to buy more trains than can fit on the layout, but now there's an official justification for buying more stuff...at least until I run out of shelf space.