Thickness of wire to use for replacing missing caboose railings

[Neptune48]

As I skimmed through this thread, observing most folks here were getting wrapped around the axle over the measuring tool, I was focused on your use of piano wire. That material is very hard; it will damage diagonal cutters and is very hard to bend. I would recommend using brass rod, which is more malleable and easy to cut and bend. I'm doing a similiar thing for scratch-built N Scale cabooses.

Best of luck.

—Bruce

[crossthedog]

@Dave. Bronze. Did I say brass? I meant bronze.

[crossthedog]

PC101

Sorry for the loss of your father.

Thanks, PC. I don't like to dwell in regret, but I could have learned a lot from him about electrical stuff, and just life in general, if I had been willing to slow down and pay attention. He was a methodical, patient craftsman. I'm always in a hurry. But to this day, when something I do turns out right on the layout, I say "good job, Willard!" as if he and I are working shoulder to shoulder.

And thanks for the warning about keeping the micrometer surfaces apart during storage. Sounds like some kind of voodoo, but maybe damage from pressure changes, or corrosion? Magnetic buildup until a disastrous Dr. Who-style polarity reversal throwing us back in time to before nickel plated track?

-Matt

[crossthedog]

tstage

Since you didn't divulge in your original post that you owned a micrometer, it was logical to presume you didn't have any way of measuring the grab irons on your caboose; hence the recommendations. And what you have pictured is a micrometer.

Tom, I do apologize. I sometimes get kind of snarky in my posts and I always regret it. What I should have done was express gratitude (which I actually do feel) for all of the INSTANT, FREE, DISINTERESTED, EXPERIENCE-BASED and GENERALLY RELIABLE counsel and ideas I get here time and time again. Thanks for the gentle nudge back to sanity.

hon30critter

By now, you are fully aware that I have a bad habit of offering more information than is needed. I'm about to continue that habit

Dave, yes I DO know that about you, and I don't mind the extra chapters AT ALL. In fact, I'm very glad you lasso'd me before I went and bought a bunch of metal that will surely break on me. I'll look for the brass. Your caboose track looks great and I like the idea of marker lights and the solitary lamp-light of the conductor's desk.

-Matt

[tstage]

crossthedog

efore everyone gets too excited telling me what kind of measuring tools I should borrow or buy, maybe that energy could be better spent helping me understand how to read the one I already have. My dad left me this -- I guess it's a caliper, not a micrometer? -- but I don't know what the smallest ticks represent. In the photo, it's open to 2 numbered units on the shaft made up of 25 numbered units each around the handle. This looks like way more than two millimeters to me, but I'm not very metric, so the single ticks on the shaft I don't know what they are.

crossthedog,

Since you didn't divulge in your original post that you owned a micrometer, it was logical to presume you didn't have any way of measuring the grab irons on your caboose; hence the recommendations.  And what you have pictured is a micrometer.  What a special rememberance of your dad!

And I'm glad you were able to figure out how to use it.  Since it has 0.001" stamped on the side then the increments are indeed English and each rotation is 25-mil (0.025").

I will add that, while a handy tool, your micrometer will be limited to a total of 1" of travel.  And it cannot measure inside diameters.  If you think you might be measuring things > than 1" and IDs of tubing in the future, a caliper would still be a good investiment.

FWIW,

Tom

[hon30critter]

Hi Matt,

I'm going to throw a couple of wrenches in your works just to be a nuisance.

First, 0.022" is much bigger than a scale HO handrail would be. They would look more realistic using 0.0125" wire. If you install the handrails using gel CA (apply from the inside of the shell), the CA will fill the gap between the smaller wire and the 0.022" holes.

Second, I would suggest using phosphor bronze (pb) wire from Tichy Train Group instead of piano wire. Phosphor bronze wire is much easier to bend but it is still solid enough to withstand handling. Also, if you make the bend in the wrong place, phosphor bronze wire will allow you to straighten the wire and re-bend it in the right place whereas piano wire may break. Pb wire is also easy to solder whereas piano wire is not.

Here are Tichy's ph wire listings:

https://www.tichytraingroup.com/Shop/tabid/91/c/ho_wire/Default.aspx

By now, you are fully aware that I have a bad habit of offering more information than is needed. I'm about to continue that habit by making some suggestions about how to improve your caboose handrails.

The end platform handrails that come with the kit are a bit simplistic when compared to most prototypes. That gives you the opportunity to make them much more realistic by making your own handrails. I kitbashed a fleet of Athearn cabooses a few years ago and this is what I did with the railings. Note that I did these before I was aware of the proper size for the railing diameters so I used0.020" pb wire.[D)

 

I could have done a much better job. For example, the ladders and the brake wheels are way too thick. Live and learn!

I did add working marker lights and an interior light that only shines out of one window suggesting that is where the conductor's desk is located. I also added a keep alive system for the lights. If you want information on any of that, please ask.

Cheers!!

Dave

 

["JaBear"]

crossthedog

Thank you Bear. I'm sure it's the same.

No worries. 

 

Depending on how much model kit bashing and or repair work you do, you’ve got a very handy tool there, with the bonus of the micrometer having sentimental value.

 

Once used to them, a micrometer, is easy to read, but to be fair and if I’m honest thinking back, I did start to fabricate an aircraft skin from 0.020” Alclad sheet instead of the required 0.025”. My “Chiefie” gave me a very animated talking to!!!

  

I’ve since found guys who are used to measuring with Imperial measurements using fractions have to get their head around to thinking in 10ths, 100s, and 1000s. I originally thought that young ffolkes who have been bought up using the Metric System would have grasped that you use 10ths etc. but no!! (I am surprised that the Bear can be so patient, though it’s worth it if the young person shows promise.)

 

PC101s YouTube tutorial idea is a good one, as long as it doesn’t waffle on!

Have Fun,

Cheers, the Bear.

[PC101]

Yes, .022'' wire.

Sorry for the loss of your father.

[crossthedog]

Ok, I had another close look at the tool. I don't know why it seemed confusing to me the first time I looked at it a few years ago. Maybe having just lost my dad I was easily disoriented.

One full turn of the handle, twenty-five ticks from zero to zero, moves one tick on the shaft, and there are four ticks to each numbered unit on the shaft. The number .001 is engraved right on the tool, so I assume that's the smallest unit, which is one tick on the handle.

I took one of the rails off the caboose and, from all the way closed, I opened the caliper 22 handle-ticks before the rail finally fit in between -- almost a full turn around -- which is what I expected from Bear's comment. So I guess that the wire I want is 22 thousandths of an inch.

[PC101]

crossthedog

 it's a micrometer

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Look up how to use a micrometer on youtube. The pictures should be very helpful.

Do not store the mic. with the two surfaces (yellow arrows) touching.

Make sure first when those two surfaces do touch the tool reads '0'

[crossthedog]

Before everyone gets too excited telling me what kind of measuring tools I should borrow or buy, maybe that energy could be better spent helping me understand how to read the one I already have. My dad left me this -- I guess it's a caliper, not a micrometer? -- but I don't know what the smallest ticks represent. In the photo, it's open to 2 numbered units on the shaft made up of 25 numbered units each around the handle. This looks like way more than two millimeters to me, but I'm not very metric, so the single ticks on the shaft I don't know what they are.

the ferrous metal railing beside the brake wheels is .022”.

Thank you Bear. I'm sure it's the same.

["JaBear"]

I’m in the process of kit bashing two later Roundhouse caboose kits with the cast metal frame and cast on grabs etc. However, the ferrous metal railing beside the brake wheels is .022”.

 

Roundhouse Caboose by Bear, on Flickr

 

For model railroading purposes I bought a relativity cheap but accurate digital vernier caliper, mm, and inches, more useful than a micrometer, IMO. (For work I still use my 40 year old Mitutoyo micrometer and Mitutoyo 8” dial vernier caliper, I cringed at the expense at the time, but don’t regret paying for quality.)

Cheers, the Bear.

[tstage]

Better yet - buy a pair of calipers:

While I really like my 40-year old dial Starrett, you can pick up inexpensive dial or digital calipers for $20-$30.  A worthwhile investment - especially if you are going to do scratch-building or repair work.

I prefer dial calipers.  However, the digital calipers are handy for switching between English and metric units.  If you do decide on a dial, I would go with one with 0.100" per revolution increments - like the one pictured above.

Tom

[maxman]

Suggestion?  Borrow a micrometer.

[crossthedog]

Picked up an old Roundhouse old-timer caboose "kit" at a swap meet. Looked like everything was there but it turns out that half of the deck railings were missing (along with the smoke jack). Each end has one of the railings in place, with holes for the other (missing) railing, and for ladder and brake wheel. But only the ladders and brake wheels were in the box. 

I figger I can probably bend some wire to make the railings, and I know you can buy piano wire of varying sizes, so I aim to go that route. But does anyone have a good guess at what gauge of piano wire this would be? I have no idea, and the materials don't specify. I even found some parts online from Grandt Line that look similar, but they don't mention the size of the wire either.

Clues? Suggestions?

Thanks,

-Matt