All very nice, Doc. The ladder rungs are mind-boggling, such small detail. My dad would have loved the ladders. He was all about the jigs.
-Matt
Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.
I also use the .0125 wire for the grabirons on the roofwalk laterals, but also add a soldered-on support at the bend...
(if you click on the photos, they should enlarge)
...and a couple other things to do...
I also built several of these small crossing shanties where there are no crossing gates...just a former railroad employee, who may have been injured on the job, and then later assigned as a crossing tender...
...but then decided to add some handrails to the "wooden" porch, using Evergreen .035" styrene rod...
...then used a small round file to create "pipe fittings"....
...and one of several that are on the layout...
Wayne
Ummm, small correction, Matt, 0.0125” is smaller than 0.015”. I also think that I need to add some perspective to this wire thickness discussion. Decimal inches HO scale inches 0.0125 1.1 0.015 1.3 0.020 1.7 0.025 2.2 0.030 2.6 Now due to doctorwaynes influence I do use Tichy 0.0125 phosphor bronze wire for making grabs, steps etc, but when making the railing for my car ferry, I used .020” brass wire because it came in longer lengths requiring less soldering. To be honest, as Matt is only replacing one railing, I’d recommend using the original 0.022” or at the least, 0.020”. As a “3 foot” modeller am I going to quibble over, or even see well enough, the difference between 1 and 2 HO scale inches? Currently on the work bench, 0.0125" phosphor bronze wire. 0.0125 by Bear, on Flickr 0.020" brass railings and stantions. 0.020" railing by Bear, on Flickr Cheers, the Bear.
crossthedog The good part was that the folks at REI handed me a new replacement tool without even asking questions. -Matt
The good part was that the folks at REI handed me a new replacement tool without even asking questions.
Matt,
Nice that they replaced the tool. I have a few cutters now with dings in the blades and I have no idea who manufactured them. Just chalk it up to an expensive learning curve.
Regards,
Bruce
hon30critter Hi Bruce, Have you used phosphor bronze wire? It is quite a bit stiffer than plain brass but is is still easy to bend and solder. I have found that brass wire bends too easily so that you have to be very careful when handling a model with brass hand rails. With phosphor bronze, you can be pretty clumsey (which I usually am) but nothing gets bent. Cheers!! Dave
Hi Bruce,
Have you used phosphor bronze wire? It is quite a bit stiffer than plain brass but is is still easy to bend and solder. I have found that brass wire bends too easily so that you have to be very careful when handling a model with brass hand rails. With phosphor bronze, you can be pretty clumsey (which I usually am) but nothing gets bent.
Cheers!!
Dave
Hi, Dave.
Yes I have used it, but I happened to have brass wire on hand in the appropriate size. After I posted, I noticed phosphor bronze was mentioned ahead of my post, and I'll defer to that expertise.
up831it's been a long while since I've used one, but if I remember correctly the hash marks on the shaft read in 1/10000 of an inch or .0001. Hope this helps.
Jim,
Correction: Those are one thousandth (1-mil) increments; hence the "0.001" on the side of the micrometer in the photo. Each rotation is 0.025" (25-mil) and will expose one tick per rotation on the vertical shaft. Four rotations yield 0.100" (100-mil), which you can just see the "1" on the shaft. The gap in the photo is 0.200" (200-mil)...
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
PC101I have an assortment of Phosphor Bronze wire in these sizes from smallest to largest, .008", .010", .015" and .020". A project will come up in the future that will need this size or that size. Don't over look other sizes. I also keep in stock, brass, steel, piano/music wire and magnet wire.
Magnet wire is great if you want to hide wiring for headlamps on brass locomotives. I use 34 AWG (0.006" OD). Both will fit through a #80 size drilled hole and are barely noticeable.
up831it's been a long while since I've used one, but if I remember correctly the hash marks on the shaft read in 1/10000 of an inch or .0001.
I'm pretty sure that each of those hash marks is 1/1000 of an inch, or 0.001.
crossthedog Before everyone gets too excited telling me what kind of measuring tools I should borrow or buy, maybe that energy could be better spent helping me understand how to read the one I already have. My dad left me this -- I guess it's a caliper, not a micrometer? -- but I don't know what the smallest ticks represent. In the photo, it's open to 2 numbered units on the shaft made up of 25 numbered units each around the handle. This looks like way more than two millimeters to me, but I'm not very metric, so the single ticks on the shaft I don't know what they are. the ferrous metal railing beside the brake wheels is .022”. Thank you Bear. I'm sure it's the same.
Before everyone gets too excited telling me what kind of measuring tools I should borrow or buy, maybe that energy could be better spent helping me understand how to read the one I already have. My dad left me this -- I guess it's a caliper, not a micrometer? -- but I don't know what the smallest ticks represent. In the photo, it's open to 2 numbered units on the shaft made up of 25 numbered units each around the handle. This looks like way more than two millimeters to me, but I'm not very metric, so the single ticks on the shaft I don't know what they are.
the ferrous metal railing beside the brake wheels is .022”.
Thank you Bear. I'm sure it's the same.
Jim (with a nod to Mies Van Der Rohe)
PC101 Yeah, that looks nice, and Henry used even smaller (0.015). I might get some of both and play around, but I wonder if .015 might be too small to properly stay in the holes that are already in the caboose.
If you're re-working an older car with oversized holes, I've found that it's quite easy to re-drill the holes with a suitably-sized drill bit, then use some similar-sized Evergreen styrene rod, dipped into lacquer thinner, to plug the hole...let it sit for a minute or two, then slice-off the excess, and re-drill to suit the wire that you wish to use.
crossthedog hon30critter If you compare doctorwayne's caboose handrails with mine, you can clearly see how much better the 0.0125" phosphor bronze wire that he used looks Yeah, that looks nice, and Henry used even smaller (0.015). I might get some of both and play around, but I wonder if .015 might be too small to properly stay in the holes that are already in the caboose. Anyway, thanks all. Very grateful for your help. -Matt
hon30critter If you compare doctorwayne's caboose handrails with mine, you can clearly see how much better the 0.0125" phosphor bronze wire that he used looks
Yeah, that looks nice, and Henry used even smaller (0.015). I might get some of both and play around, but I wonder if .015 might be too small to properly stay in the holes that are already in the caboose.
Anyway, thanks all. Very grateful for your help.
Looks like I type too slow. I deleated some wording here that was mentioned above that I did not see/read till this posted stayed put. Error, error.
I have an assortment of Phosphor Bronze wire in these sizes from smallest to largest, .008", .010", .015" and .020" . A project will come up in the future that will need this size or that size. Don't over look other sizes. I also keep in stock, brass, steel, piano/music wire and magnet wire.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
I would go with the .125 wire, Tichy also sells the curved and rectangular grabs along with the wire and the grabs are .125, you can use gap filling CA which will take care of the larger holes drilled in the car.
Rick Jesionowski
Rule 1: This is my railroad.
Rule 2: I make the rules.
Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!
hon30critterIf you compare doctorwayne's caboose handrails with mine, you can clearly see how much better the 0.0125" phosphor bronze wire that he used looks
BigDaddyIt wasn't really an offer but let me see how much I have. I was looking for it to give you a size, 0.015"
It wasn't really an offer but let me see how much I have. I was looking for it to give you a size, 0.015"
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Hi again Matt,
If you compare doctorwayne's caboose handrails with mine, you can clearly see how much better the 0.0125" phosphor bronze wire that he used looks vs my 0.020" pb wire. Also, it looks like wayne used an aftermarket brake wheel (Kaydee maybe) whereas I used the original wheels that came with the kits. I wish I had known better when I did the caboose fleet.
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
crossthedog@Wayne, that's a mighty attractive bay window caboose. That gate is slick. It puzzles me, though. Why is there a gate there? Is that for ease of uncoupling without the conductor having to climb down to the ground?
Thanks for your kind comment, Matt.As for the gate, it's there to allow a brakeman access from the caboose to the end ladder on the freight car, to which the caboose is coupled.
My layout is set in the late '30s, so it wouldn't be unusual for the engineer to use "whistle-talk" to get a brakeman setting brakes (or retainers) on cars near the back-end of the train.
crossthedog maxman crossthedog I sometimes get kind of snarky in my posts Who? You? Gee, who would have thought that? Seriously, max? Am I that bad? Now I'm going to develop a complex. I need to rethink how I move through the world. Thought I'd done all that interior work already. -Matt
maxman crossthedog I sometimes get kind of snarky in my posts Who? You? Gee, who would have thought that?
I sometimes get kind of snarky in my posts
Who? You? Gee, who would have thought that?
Seriously, max? Am I that bad? Now I'm going to develop a complex. I need to rethink how I move through the world. Thought I'd done all that interior work already.
Rich
Alton Junction
Neptune48on your use of piano wire. That material is very hard; it will damage diagonal cutters and is very hard to bend.
BigDaddyI will see if I can find my bronze phosphor wire that I used for these railings. As has been said, you don't want to use piano wire.
BigDaddyFor some reason I thought you were one of younger members.
@Wayne, that's a mighty attractive bay window caboose. That gate is slick. It puzzles me, though. Why is there a gate there? Is that for ease of uncoupling without the conductor having to climb down to the ground?
hon30critterWith phosphor bronze, you can be pretty clumsey (which I usually am) but nothing gets bent.
crossthedogI figger I can probably bend some wire to make the railings, and I know you can buy piano wire of varying sizes, so I aim to go that route. But does anyone have a good guess at what gauge of piano wire this would be?
I agree with Dave's suggestion about using Tichy's phosphor-bronze wire for making handrails and ladders, and have a good supply of all sizes that they offer, along with pretty-well every size of strip styrene that's offered by Evergreen, and their variety of sheet styrene thicknesses, too.
While piano wire is very useful for a variety of items, I'd suggest phosphor-bronze wire for handrails.It's available (from Tichy) in a variety of diameters, from .008", .010", .0125"", .015", .020", .025", .032", and .040".
It's easy to bend and if you've mis-done the bend, it can be easily straightened, and then re-bent properly, without fatiguing, as would often occur with steel piano wire.One of it's other valuable properties is that it's easy to solder. I used strip brass for ladder stiles, then used phosphor-bronze wire for the ladder rungs, soldering everything together on a homemade jig, then used a cut-off disc to remove the excess wire and any excessive solder.
Here's an old Athearn bay-window caboose that I re-worked somewhat...
...with scratchbuilt ladders and railings (the platform gate does work, too).
Because I've sold (or given away) a bunch of my cabooses, I'll be scratch-building at least a dozen replacements, and will likely buy a few of the bay-window ones, too.
Found my wire 0.015"
Link to Tichy group phosphor bronze wire.
Crossthedog For some reason I thought you were one of younger members. Us old guys are crotchety.
As was mentioned, your micrometer is marked in inches. I have both calipers and a micrometer. If you are confused, measure something like a 1/4" drill bit and you can figure out the divisions.
I moved recently and I am still looking for things I know I moved. I will see if I can find my bronze phosphor wire that I used for these railings. As has been said, you don't want to use piano wire.
crossthedogSeriously, max? Am I that bad?
I can't answer that question. It hadn't occurred to me until you mentioned it.
Neptune48I would recommend using brass rod, which is more malleable and easy to cut and bend.
crossthedog I sometimes get kind of snarky in my posts
Anyway, regarding calipers, yes, I have a digital one of those. Don't really care for it. One edge is marked in millimeters, and the other in tenths of an inch.
Since it is used infrequently, the battery always manages to pass on to the big repository in the sky just whan I need to use the thing. If I were to purchase one again, I'd opt for the non-digital (analog?) version. The digital version is sort of useless w/o the battery.
I use the micrometer much more frequently. Not because I need to measure something with great accuracy, but because I either have left a number of small diameter drill bits laying around without putting them away in the drill index and need to know what goes where, or because I managed to knock the drill index over and all the bits tried to escape.