So, it seems Bachmann is releasing an HO model of the Pullman PS-2 covered hopper car.
Kadee already makes this car.
What strikes me as odd, is that the Bachmann model is higher priced than the Kadee model of the same freight car.
The Kadee model is nearly perfect, and it comes with the best trucks and couplers factory installed.
A Bachmann model of the same car at a 5-10% higher price seems wrong. Are Bachmann freight cars really selling for $55.00 now?
I know that the Kadee cars are hard to find and mostly limited releases. Maybe that is the reason?
-Kevin
Living the dream.
SeeYou190 What strikes me as odd, is that the Bachmann model is higher priced than the Kadee model of the same freight car. The Kadee model is nearly perfect, and it comes with the best trucks and couplers factory installed. A Bachmann model of the same car at a 5-10% higher price seems wrong. Are Bachmann freight cars really selling for $55.00 now?
I agree. $55.00 for a freight car does seem a bit pricy.
SeeYou190 So, it seems Bachmann is releasing an HO model of the Pullman PS-2 covered hopper car. Kadee already makes this car. What strikes me as odd, is that the Bachmann model is higher priced than the Kadee model of the same freight car. The Kadee model is nearly perfect, and it comes with the best trucks and couplers factory installed. A Bachmann model of the same car at a 5-10% higher price seems wrong. Are Bachmann freight cars really selling for $55.00 now? I know that the Kadee cars are hard to find and mostly limited releases. Maybe that is the reason? -Kevin
Maybe not the best marketing plan, but Bachmann has always had inflated MSRP pricing and deep discounts to dealers. Actual street prices from nearly all retailers is 35% to 45% off.
That makes it a $30 to $36 car.
And yes, Bachmann will make a bunch, without preorders, and simply put them out there for sale.
Sheldon
nevermind.
- Douglas
What really has me curious, is that they say it is "Silver Series Quality" in the advertisement, like that means anything.
I was fooled by that when I bought this crane car.
-Photograph by Kevin Parson
I did not pay $80.00 for it, but I paid way more than what was a fair price for this Train-Set-Quality piece of junk.
"Silver Series"... not falling for that again.
I don't follow Bachmann much, but I don't know if they even offer another series of rolling stock in the USA other than the Silver Series. They are usually listed at the online retailers for prices higher than other products of similar detail. Walthers Mainline for example.
But hey, you got two cars of a kind not many manufacturers make.
Kevin, I understand and agree. But I hope the following explaination will help some.
Bachmann is a big company, that is part of a much bigger company, that also makes trains for a number of other brands. They are, last I checked, the only publicly traded model train manufacturer in the world.
They have carefully moved from a cheap toy train company 5 or 6 decades ago, to a company now offering a wide range of products aimed at all segments of the market.
Not all products in a Silver Series box will be of the the exact same quality of execution regarding detail.
They have been on a continious retooling/upgrading program since the 1990's, and purposely offer different levels of products.
And, on top of all that, they are trying to read the market just like all these other companies.
I have lots of Bachmann products, and there are lots of Bachmann products I would never own.
I know this bothers some people, so they just right off the whole company as "train set junk". Today, at least operationally, nothing could be farther from the truth.
BUT, not all the models are well detailed or intended to appeal to the more discriminating modeler.
This hopper is a new car, likely it will be better than most of the older cars, but it still will not be Kadee detail quality.
I have Bachmann Silver Series 50' piggyback cars, which have only been around 5 or 6 years?. I do a little work to them. They are somewhat more detailed than my Athearn Blue Box piggyback flats, which also get a mild kit bash from me. But the paint jobs are nice, and reasonably correct.
So until you see one in person, who knows.
Doughless I don't follow Bachmann much, but I don't know if they even offer another series of rolling stock in the USA other than the Silver Series. They are usually listed at the online retailers for prices higher than other products of similar detail. Walthers Mainline for example. But hey, you got two cars of a kind not many manufacturers make.
There are places that ask higher prices for Bachmann, and I'm sure they sell some. But generally there are lots of places selling it at 40% off, more or less. That was the wholesale discount back in the day.
Case in point: the Siemens Chargers. List is $479.99. But you have to work to find someone who selling it for more than $290.
And it is a really nice model. Too modern even for me, a contemporary era guy.
Something I never understood about them. Why is thier British stuff better quality and more detailed than the American market products? And cheaper cost? They did bring low cost large scale tot he us But have cut those lines out in recent years in favor of the spectrum only in large scale. They set the bar for detail and quality in large scale with the spectrum line. It spread to thier european products but not us for some reason.
bachmann has been around a few years shy of 200. They are a general manufacturer. Always have been. That is why they are publicly traded. Odel railroad is a small piece of the operation.
A pessimist sees a dark tunnel
An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel
A realist sees a frieght train
An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space
Bachman produces some great engines but they also produce some train show junk. With them you have to know what to buy. Personally I only buy their DCC sound engines as the detail is not acceptable on their HO cars.
I have owned several Bachmann Spectrum steam locomotives, and I was always satisfied with them, although my beloved 4-6-2, Thumper, could only limp down the track. My local medical examiner, Sheldon, pronounced it dead. Right, Sheldon?
I do own several Bachmann freight cars, refitted with IM metal wheels and Kadee couplers, and they are just fine.
Lastly, I own 5 Bachmann lighted heavyweight Pulllman passenger cars, and I really do like them. They retain the original wheels and couplers.
Rich
Alton Junction
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Doughless I don't follow Bachmann much, but I don't know if they even offer another series of rolling stock in the USA other than the Silver Series. They are usually listed at the online retailers for prices higher than other products of similar detail. Walthers Mainline for example. But hey, you got two cars of a kind not many manufacturers make. There are places that ask higher prices for Bachmann, and I'm sure they sell some. But generally there are lots of places selling it at 40% off, more or less. That was the wholesale discount back in the day. Sheldon
Well, I never know what MSRP is, I usually browse the online retailers to see what prices products must be bought at.
Looking at well stocked train store like Hiawatha Hobbies, Kevins boom crane product goes for $45 to $51 depending on road name. It is really 2 train set quality cars put together. Looking at other Bachmann cars on tht site, that aren't specialty cars, and they go for about $20 to $25.
A similar line, Walthers TRAINLINE, go for about $18 to $21. Same price basically.
Its about what I thought. I don't think its possible to get a brand new, even trains set quality, car these days for much less than $20.
So Kevin's two car set should be about $45, right where Hiawatha has it priced.
Above, I used the example of Walthers Mainline. IMO, MAINLINE is where Walthers is creating new cars from new tooling...fewer details that are molded on....that are really pretty nice cars if you don't want to go the PROTO route. They go for about $25 to $30, and PROTO higher than that. I think Walthers is pushing the older tooled cars into the TRAINLINE series. Like Athearn did with ROUNDHOUSE, which is the older tooled stuff compared to RTR.
I don't think Bachmann has separate lower end/mid level product lines in the USA, and everything is lumped into the Silver Series. So you kind of have to look closer at what you're buying.
NVSRR Something I never understood about them. Why is thier British stuff better quality and more detailed than the American market products? And cheaper cost? They did bring low cost large scale tot he us But have cut those lines out in recent years in favor of the spectrum only in large scale. They set the bar for detail and quality in large scale with the spectrum line. It spread to thier european products but not us for some reason. bachmann has been around a few years shy of 200. They are a general manufacturer. Always have been. That is why they are publicly traded. Odel railroad is a small piece of the operation.
Yes, the original Bachmann company here in the US was a plastics manufacturer who made a lot more than just Plasticville buildings, and Kader the parent company now is a general toy and hobby manufacturer in China making all sorts of stuff for lots of different customers.
The difference between the US and European products reflects the differences in the two markets, and the progression of the separate product lines.
I find this whole discussion very helpful. Thank you all.
Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.
Doughless Kevins boom crane product goes for $45 to $51 depending on road name. It is really 2 train set quality cars put together.
I paid about $65.00 for it with shipping and taxes added in.
If I would have watched one video review before the purchase, I would not have bought it.
You can pin that one on me for being an under-informed consumer in this instance.
I wish Bachmann would bring back the "Spectrum" name for their higher quality models so we would know when a model is built to a higher standard.
I would avoid this model just because they call it "Silver Series", and now, to me, that means something to watch out for and be cautious.
SeeYou190 Doughless Kevins boom crane product goes for $45 to $51 depending on road name. It is really 2 train set quality cars put together. I paid about $65.00 for it with shipping and taxes added in. If I would have watched one video review before the purchase, I would not have bought it. You can pin that one on me for being an under-informed consumer in this instance. I wish Bachmann would bring back the "Spectrum" name for their higher quality models so we would know when a model is built to a higher standard. I would avoid this model just because they call it "Silver Series", and now, to me, that means something to watch out for and be cautious. -Kevin
I don't know anything about passenger cars. To me, it seems possible that Bachmann produced/produces passenger cars to Spectrum standards to be pulled behind their Spectrum locos.
As far as I know, Bachmann has never produced high end freight cars for the USA market. All of the cars have molded on details, and some skimpier than others, from what I've seen.
I've shied away from Bachmann ever since they abandoned their Spectrum line. All the Spectrum products I bought I was very happy with and most of what I bought from their standard line I was unhappy with. Now that it's all combined, buying from Bachmann is a crapshoot. You just don't know what kind of quality you will get.
I agree that it is a shame that Bachmann has moved away from the clear distiction of the Spectrum line, or has dramaticly limited Spectrum offerings.
The new K4 and rerun of the 2-10-0 are Spectrum.
The upgraded GS4, and N&W J are at or near Spectrum.
The fairly recent USRA 4-6-2 and 2-8-2 are also very near Spectrum detail with a few road specific detail versions (better in this department than BLI).
And the 2-8-4 remains as introduced with near Spectrum detail levels and very good road specific versions (better in this department than MTH).
I converted 5 of them into freelanced heavy Mikes:
It is important to note that in my experiance, all of these locos listed above have Spectrum quality drivelines, just a little less detail.
And, dispite no longer packaged as Spectrum, the 2-8-0 HAS NOT CHANGED.
I am going to say this, while the Spectrum packaging added an "aire" of quality, I'm sure it was expensive. The boxes don't run on the layout........
The 4-6-0 did loose some of its separately applied details, but otherwise is the same as Spectrum versions.
The ALCO 2-6-0 is another more recent, very near Spectrum detail, regular line loco with superior running qualities.
The old 0-6-0 and 2-6-2 have recieved some upgrades.
The GG1, Charger, and the E7 seem very nice for their price points.
The rest of the various diesels have improved drives and detail levels vary with most newer releases being much better.
The new steamlined passenger cars are better than ConCor or IHC, but not Walthers or BLI by any means.
And yes, each Silver Series freight car needs to be judged separately, some being pretty nice, others being very much "TYCO, LifeLike, AHM train set quality" in terms of detail, but with Blue Box running quality.
I think everyone here knows I'm not OCD about every car being some uber perfect super detailed piece. That said, some Silver Series cars meet my standards, many don't.
So that's not the whole product line, but should help some understand their offerings.
So most of the steam remain models I will buy if they fit my roster. I am seriously considering a few of the Mikado and Pacific models, but I might be too late until they do some more runs.
Bachmann remains one of the few companies making the trains first, then selling them.........
One more thing - a list of Bachmann/Spectrum locos/cars I own and consider great models:
B&O EM-1 2-8-8-4
USRA heavy Mountain
Baldwin 2-8-0
USRA light 2-10-2
USRA/C&O 2-6-6-2, both versions
Original Spectrum 4-6-0
GE 44 tonner
GE 70 tonner
Doodlebug
Heavyweight passenger cars
Lot of separate tenders that are now behind Broadway Limited and other locomotives......
N&W aux water tenders
50' piggyback flat cars
ATLANTIC CENTRAL And, dispite no longer packaged as Spectrum, the 2-8-0 HAS NOT CHANGED. The 4-6-0 did loose some of its separately applied details, but otherwise is the same as Spectrum versions.
I completely agree with you about the 2-8-0. I own three Spectrums and they are among my favorite locos.
I own two 4-6-0s. For such a small loco, it runs quite well. My only gripe is the sound is pretty weak. I suspect that has improved since I got mine. Only one of mine has sound.
Unfortunately, I don't have as much experience with as many Bachmann locos as you do so I don't know what is good and what is not. My roster is fairly complete and I don't have plans to add to it but if I did, I would be reluctant to choose a Bachmann loco that I didn't know to be of good quality.
John-NYBW All the Spectrum products I bought I was very happy
All the Spectrum products I bought I was very happy
My last Spectrum purchase was the GP30, which was warmed over garbage. I have not returned.
An "expensive model collector"
Yes, Botchman is still Botchman!
Rick Jesionowski
Rule 1: This is my railroad.
Rule 2: I make the rules.
Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!
n012944 John-NYBW All the Spectrum products I bought I was very happy My last Spectrum purchase was the GP30, which was warmed over garbage. I have not returned.
Spectrum GP30? I don't remember that, and a quick scan of Bachmann catalogs back to 2002 did not show one. There was a regular line GP30, not a bad runner, but train set quality detail wise.
Personally, except for the GE switchers, I never had any interest in Bachmann diesels, and a GP30 is out of my era by a good margin, so I would not even know who has made a nice one? Proto years ago?
Most of my diesels for my 1954 era are older Proto, Genesis and Intermountain F units, and a few other Athearn products.
Waiting for my new Bowser RS-3's.
So 40 years ago every car company made their share of junk, what are you driving today?
dti406 Yes, Botchman is still Botchman! Rick Jesionowski
Well, whatever. As I explained above, some of it is very nice, and some of it you could not give me for free.
But I will say this - my mechanical failure rate with Bachmann has been has been less than my mechanical failure rate with BLI, and my warranty service from Bachmann has been much better than BLI.
I have 40 Bachmann locomotives (mostly steam, mostly Spectrum) and only 8 BLI.
So you can make all the smart @$$ comments you want every time somebody talks about Bachmann, but I model 1954 and they have made a long list of nice steam locos no one else has offered.
John-NYBW ATLANTIC CENTRAL And, dispite no longer packaged as Spectrum, the 2-8-0 HAS NOT CHANGED. The 4-6-0 did loose some of its separately applied details, but otherwise is the same as Spectrum versions. I completely agree with you about the 2-8-0. I own three Spectrums and they are among my favorite locos. I own two 4-6-0s. For such a small loco, it runs quite well. My only gripe is the sound is pretty weak. I suspect that has improved since I got mine. Only one of mine has sound. Unfortunately, I don't have as much experience with as many Bachmann locos as you do so I don't know what is good and what is not. My roster is fairly complete and I don't have plans to add to it but if I did, I would be reluctant to choose a Bachmann loco that I didn't know to be of good quality.
I understand and agree.
I also need to make one BIG DISCLAIMER.
NONE of my locos, Bachmann or otherwise, have DCC decoders, sound or otherwise.
So all of my opinions are based on the DC operation of these locos after decoder removal if they came with decoders.
I have no opinions on sound quality. They all sound like 1968 pocket radios to me.
My Aristo Train Engineer radio throttles will not work with dual mode DCC decoders.
I have no interest in onboard locomotive sound.
I have heard a number of factory Bachmann sound locos on the layouts of others. They sounded similar in quality to other brands at the time, it is not something I have kept up on. I have not been involved in the social side of the hobby here locally for a number of years now, first as a result of family obligations, and then the pandemic.
I found it, early black box Spectrum GP30 - in the 1996 Walthers catalog - 26 years ago at the beginning of the Spectrum Line - I agree, they were not all that.
But again, I never had much interest in their diesels.
Judging all their products since then based on that one is your loss.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Judging all their products since then based on that one is your loss.
Not really. I don't do steam, and their sound value models are a overpriced small step above train set quality. No loss here.
https://shop.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=258_288_298&products_id=8213
$365 with that gap in the pilot under the coupler? No thanks, no matter how much it comes under the MSRP.......
Bachmann locomotives...
I only have two of them.
My Spectrum 2-8-0 ran for the better part of 20 years, and then there was an accident, not the locomotive's issue, but it has never run again.
It makes a beautiful prop though for posing in pictures.
I also have a Bachmann B&O EM-1 2-8-8-4 that runs like a finely tuned Swiss watch. It is a wonder. It will snake through a 22" radius S-Curve with no modifications or complaints. I have never had a chance to run it on a layout.
So, Bachmann steamers have been good to me... but... I decided to go brass for everything, so there will probably not be any more.
The Bachmann 2-8-0 has been replaced by this sweet little honey of a consolidation.
I have never owned a Bachmann diesel locomotive.
I do not own any Bachmann freight cars or passenger cars.
Just one non-revenue car (pair).
n012944 ATLANTIC CENTRAL Judging all their products since then based on that one is your loss. Not really. I don't do steam, and their sound value models are a overpriced small step above train set quality. No loss here. https://shop.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=258_288_298&products_id=8213 $365 with that gap in the pilot under the coupler? No thanks, no matter how much it comes under the MSRP.......
Well, I agree, I have already said I personally don't have any interest in Bachmann diesels other than the GE pieces I already have.
You don't do steam and I don't do 60's diesels.
Two good reasons why we are not interested in the same products.
Most of the other makers steam in the last 25 years have been busy just making big, flashy, "famous" locos that don't fit the theme of most modelers actually trying to model a specific railroad or even a freelance theme like me.
OR, when they do make medium sized "ordinary" steam, like the BLI Pacific and Mikado, they are COMPLETELY generic, like in 1966.
Bachmann on the other hand, while not always perfect, has made a long list of more ordinary locos and made them in lots of road specific variations.
And while not currently as diverse, their steam line still includes a lot of such locos, rather than one more company making UP Big Boys.....
And they all run very nice, as good or better than my eight pieces of BLI.
I have 5 of these:
And 11 of these Heavy Moutains in various versions, and roadnames:
And 5 of these 2-8-4's converted to freelanced 2-8-2's:
Just to name a few.