rrebell ATLANTIC CENTRAL richhotrain I have always felt that Bachmann really found its place with Spectrum steam. I have mever even considered Bachmann for diesels. Rich I have to agree. I'm going to tell a little story, way back in the dark ages of model trains, in the 1970's, two young guys worked in a model train store in Baltimore. They had big ideas. Fast forward, one ends up at Bachmann and is largly responsable for creating the Spectrum line and all the general improvements to other Bachmann products. The other ends up at LifeLike developing the Proto2000 line of products, mostly diesels. Likely not all coincidence that the two product lines did not overlap much...... Today we have lost one of these great individuals, the other has long retired. I was priviledged to have casually known them both. But this was history repeating itself. Just like when Irv Athearn and Clarence Menteer, the owner of Model Die Casting/Roundhouse, had lunch once a month, and made parts for each others product lines. Sheldon Did not know that, got restarted in the hobby when I lived in Baltimore at a little shop named M. B. Kline.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL richhotrain I have always felt that Bachmann really found its place with Spectrum steam. I have mever even considered Bachmann for diesels. Rich I have to agree. I'm going to tell a little story, way back in the dark ages of model trains, in the 1970's, two young guys worked in a model train store in Baltimore. They had big ideas. Fast forward, one ends up at Bachmann and is largly responsable for creating the Spectrum line and all the general improvements to other Bachmann products. The other ends up at LifeLike developing the Proto2000 line of products, mostly diesels. Likely not all coincidence that the two product lines did not overlap much...... Today we have lost one of these great individuals, the other has long retired. I was priviledged to have casually known them both. But this was history repeating itself. Just like when Irv Athearn and Clarence Menteer, the owner of Model Die Casting/Roundhouse, had lunch once a month, and made parts for each others product lines. Sheldon
richhotrain I have always felt that Bachmann really found its place with Spectrum steam. I have mever even considered Bachmann for diesels. Rich
I have always felt that Bachmann really found its place with Spectrum steam. I have mever even considered Bachmann for diesels.
Rich
I have to agree.
I'm going to tell a little story, way back in the dark ages of model trains, in the 1970's, two young guys worked in a model train store in Baltimore. They had big ideas.
Fast forward, one ends up at Bachmann and is largly responsable for creating the Spectrum line and all the general improvements to other Bachmann products.
The other ends up at LifeLike developing the Proto2000 line of products, mostly diesels.
Likely not all coincidence that the two product lines did not overlap much......
Today we have lost one of these great individuals, the other has long retired. I was priviledged to have casually known them both.
But this was history repeating itself.
Just like when Irv Athearn and Clarence Menteer, the owner of Model Die Casting/Roundhouse, had lunch once a month, and made parts for each others product lines.
Sheldon
Did not know that, got restarted in the hobby when I lived in Baltimore at a little shop named M. B. Kline.
Just to be clear, those two guys did not work at Kleins. They worked at Pro Custom Hobbies in Catonsville MD, then owned by Joe Luber, a guy well know in brass circles who did custom painting, and also did a good share of mail order business.
So here is one more story, the connection between Kliens, discounting, and LifeLike.
Ted Klein worked in his fathers hardware store on Gay Street. A large regional hobby distributor, Kramer Brothers was just a few blocks away. Kramer Brothers had been early inovators in the low cost balsa model planes and were full line hobby distributors.
Ted suggested to his father that they sell some trains during Christmas like some other hardware and automotive stores (like Western Auto) did.
His father said sure, and using the hardware store to open an account at Kramer Bros, the young Ted Klein was in the train business.
Short story, Ted's father retired, and trains took over the store. Ted was able to offer discounts and would have your products the next day. Before long there was a "train section" year round in the back, and soon Ted was buying wholesale direct from the manufacturers. By purchasing most of his inventory direct from the manufacturers, Kliens was able to sell everything at a 20% discount. Especially considering the store building was long ago paid for. The rest is history.
Kramer Bros created LifeLike to make model train scenery materials - grass, dirt, coal, gravel, trees, grass mats, and paper mache tunnels. Sawdust was nearly free for the taking as the Hamden section of Baltimore had a number of millwork, furniture, and woodworking factories. Dye it green, dye it brown.......
Looking for a faster way to make the little Christmas Garden tunnels, LifeLike looked into this new product - styrofoam. Then the Kramers noticed that the workers used the occasional defective tunnels as coolers/thermos's for their lunches.
The styrofoam cooler was born. The Kramers did very well in the styrofoam cooler business. This would later allow them to expand the train buisness on a very large scale.
LifeLike then purchased most of the remaining assets of Varney Trains, and yes at first just made cheap train set stuff......
Then my earlier story kicks in.......
After the Kramers retired, and one had passed, the buisness was sold. Buyers wanting the styrofoam buisness did not want the model train business - so as most of you know, it was sold to Walthers.
That, as they say, is the rest of the story.
That's a pretty good memory Ed, the EM-1 was introduced in the 2012 Bachmann catalog, making them going on 11 years old plus/minus a few months.
Where does the time go.....
And a short thought on how these locos come from the manufacturers. Obviously I am happy that many manufactureres are still making DC (DCC ready) versions with no sound systems.
BUT, as the price of the decoders seems to have declined, even as a DC operator, I would not be upset if all locos came with DCC and sound - under one condition. That it be done in a way that is easily back converted to DC, taking the decoder completely out of the circuit.
My Aristo Train Engineer throttles will not work with dual mode decoders. Because the train engineer uses pulse width modulation speed control, it confuses the decoders and they go nuts - litterally.
SeeYou190Please don't do anything that might mess up your locomotive.
Not to worry. Decoder Pro handles all the modifications and when it is time to return things back to the way they originally were setup one click on "write all sheets" from the original saved file brings things right back in line.
SeeYou190Will changing CVs effect how the headlight works on DC, or are these functions "hard wired" into the decoder.
With the sound module plugged in to the "mother board" it acts just like a Tsunami TSU-750. All the lighting effects are available, more than a dozen including Mars Light and Gyralite.
I switched several lighting effects then ran the engine on DC and the effects were present so, somewhere in your EM-1s history someone must have programmed Gyralite into the backup light.
Some later decoders will allow you to set a max brightness level on any of the LEDs but I didn't find this option other than "Rule 17 dimmable headlight" which, I believe dims the headlight when motion ceases.
SeeYou190Mine does not have any sound. It is a motion and lighting decoder that came factory installed.
Bachmann shipped all the HO EM-1s that way as I recall. These were the nascent days of DCC and manufacturers were still scrambling to find a way to satisfy market demands for plain DC, DCC "ready", Stealth, with sound but NO DCC motor control or just about any combination you can imagine.
I seem to recall I got a deal on the Soundtraxx plug-in sound module, which seemed like a good idea at the time. The speakers were already installed which probably cost Bachmann under a dollar per loco to do.
I think these EM-1s are nearing 12 years old and my pair still run smoothly. The sound is OK as far as that goes. I might think about a speaker upgrade sometime. And the whistle isn't correct for the B&O but I can grit my teeth and tolerate that for a while longer.
EM-1 Copy_edited-2 by Gaelic Images2009, on Flickr
BO, New Castle, Pennsylvania, 1954 by Center for Railroad Photography & Art, on Flickr
Good Luck, Ed
gmpullmanI'll see if I can mess around with the decoder settings later tonight and see what I can find. I don't recall that I've ever run mine on straight DC as I usually disable that option using CVs but I can always change it back and use the DC test track.
Please don't do anything that might mess up your locomotive.
Will changing CVs effect how the headlight works on DC, or are these functions "hard wired" into the decoder.
Mine does not have any sound. It is a motion and lighting decoder that came factory installed.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
I see that, the Bachmann forum is gone at the moment?
Years ago I spent time on there, not much for good while now. I did check in there about a month ago, all seemed fine?
SeeYou190Moving forward, the headlight is very bright, almost obnoxious looking. However, when it is running backward the headlight does a remarkable imitation of a rotating gyralite.
I agree the stock headlight is overly bright. I installed the twin-sealed beam on one of mine (as shown) and it reduced the brightness considerably. Concerning the gyralite effect when backing up that may be some kind of oddity. If I'm not mistaken the decoders were made by Soundtraxx. You might want to give them an email?
There's also the Bach Man Q&A forum[1] where many of the more learned Bachmann modelers hang out. Perhaps do a search there?
I'll see if I can mess around with the decoder settings later tonight and see what I can find. I don't recall that I've ever run mine on straight DC as I usually disable that option using CVs but I can always change it back and use the DC test track.
Regards, Ed
[1] Looks like that site is no longer supported...
Mister MikadoI got their recent GG-1, she is a sleek silky-smooth running beauty with a gorgeous green paint job.
I have seen a few of the newer Bachmann GG-1s running at train shows. They are wonderfully good runners and everyone seems happy with them.
gmpullmanThe best of that bunch is a pair of B&O EM-1s.
Ed, I have a question about the EM-1 headlight.
I have only run mine on "Standard DC", and I cannot remove the dual-mode decoder.
Moving forward, the headlight is very bright, almost obnoxious looking. However, when it is running backward the headlight does a remarkable imitation of a rotating gyralite.
On a dual mode decoder can it be reprogrammed so I get the gyralite effect while moving forward?
1.66% of my locomotive roster is Bachmann. The best of that bunch is a pair of B&O EM-1s. These engines used to run on the Lake Branch near my home and I'm happy to have them represented on my layout. I bought lots of brass Cal-Scale and other details to replace some of the stock parts. There have been a few articles about adding these details. Until then I just run them as often as I can.
BnO_EM1_w1 by Edmund, on Flickr
EM1_headlight by Edmund, on Flickr
EM1_7600 by Edmund, on Flickr
Another pair of locomotives I have from Bachmann are the E-33 motors, originally built for the Virginian as EL-C then sold to the New Haven (EF-4) and later adopted by Penn-Central and even a few lasted into Conrail. I'd really like to get a couple of the GE PRR E44s but I'm not sure I'll see those in my lifetime so the E-33 will have to do.
NH_300_E33b by Edmund, on Flickr
NH_300_E33a by Edmund, on Flickr
P-C_4615_E33 by Edmund, on Flickr
Both the E33 and E44 along with the EM-1s can be found in brass but neither are very good runners and require a bit of fiddling.
Lastly, I have a "Sound Value" Alco S-4 that I got for cheap at a train show. It really is a good switcher.
I own two of Bachmann's newer GS4s, not Spectrum level and they look and run quite decent BUT WHY DID THEY LEAVE OFF THE BELL? It was included in the old model. Oh well I'll just have to enjoy installing my own.
I got their recent GG-1, she is a sleek silky-smooth running beauty with a gorgeous green paint job. I kiss her goodnight.
Thanks for the photos, Shel, beautiful steamers. -Rob
n012944 ATLANTIC CENTRAL Think about this, more than one person has complained that high detail models are too fragile. I do believe that regarding diesels Bachmann is happy to target that group. Much like Rapido has targeted the group that does not want to paint their own locomotives, or BLI has targeted those that want sound and DCC. Something you have often complained about here, but yet defend Bachmann for doing something similar. ATLANTIC CENTRAL Having said all this, I have never been impressed with the detail on most diesels from Broadway Limited. Ends, diaphragms, pilots on stuff like E units has never been equal to Proto, despite their high prices. I am not really wanting to get into which E unit is better, but remember, the Proto 2000 E unit nose is awful. The taper on it isn't even close, while the BLI is much closer. Walthers did attempt to fix the taper in the mid 2010s, and they did make it better, however it isn't perfect. I hope that the Rapido's is more on point, judging by the taper on their FP9 I think it will be okay.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Think about this, more than one person has complained that high detail models are too fragile. I do believe that regarding diesels Bachmann is happy to target that group.
Think about this, more than one person has complained that high detail models are too fragile. I do believe that regarding diesels Bachmann is happy to target that group.
Much like Rapido has targeted the group that does not want to paint their own locomotives, or BLI has targeted those that want sound and DCC. Something you have often complained about here, but yet defend Bachmann for doing something similar.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Having said all this, I have never been impressed with the detail on most diesels from Broadway Limited. Ends, diaphragms, pilots on stuff like E units has never been equal to Proto, despite their high prices.
Having said all this, I have never been impressed with the detail on most diesels from Broadway Limited. Ends, diaphragms, pilots on stuff like E units has never been equal to Proto, despite their high prices.
I am not really wanting to get into which E unit is better, but remember, the Proto 2000 E unit nose is awful. The taper on it isn't even close, while the BLI is much closer. Walthers did attempt to fix the taper in the mid 2010s, and they did make it better, however it isn't perfect. I hope that the Rapido's is more on point, judging by the taper on their FP9 I think it will be okay.
I'm ok with Rapido not making undecorated locos, but they are ones who put it out there and then changed their mind after Kevin and I placed preorders?
Broadway, same thing, in the early days they could not make up their mind, Blueline, Stealth. I have the few BLI locos that fit my theme, two were bought when they offered DC, the rest were bought at closeout prices and the decoders went in the trash, or were given away with the tenders. Most have Bachmann tenders now.
As with other brands, close coupled working diaphrams are a thing with me. Can't speak for every model, but early BLI E's and F's failed that test too.
Personally, I have already made it clear, about the PA or the E units that I'm not interested in getting that deep in the weeds over nose contours or windshield frame thickness.
To me the gaps between diaphragms is a more noticeable short coming.
And again, I'm simply not replacing models I already have that I am happy with them being close enough.
But I won't buy a B&O Pacific from BLI when they can't even bother to put the bell and headlight in the right place and put the correct trailing truck on it. That would have been so easy. Bachmann managed to do it.
An "expensive model collector"
ATLANTIC CENTRAL LifeLike developing the Proto2000 line
Russell
ATLANTIC CENTRAL n012944 John-NYBW All the Spectrum products I bought I was very happy My last Spectrum purchase was the GP30, which was warmed over garbage. I have not returned. I found it, early black box Spectrum GP30 - in the 1996 Walthers catalog - 26 years ago at the beginning of the Spectrum Line - I agree, they were not all that. But again, I never had much interest in their diesels. Judging all their products since then based on that one is your loss. Sheldon
n012944 John-NYBW All the Spectrum products I bought I was very happy My last Spectrum purchase was the GP30, which was warmed over garbage. I have not returned.
John-NYBW All the Spectrum products I bought I was very happy
All the Spectrum products I bought I was very happy
My last Spectrum purchase was the GP30, which was warmed over garbage. I have not returned.
I found it, early black box Spectrum GP30 - in the 1996 Walthers catalog - 26 years ago at the beginning of the Spectrum Line - I agree, they were not all that.
But again, I never had much interest in their diesels.
Judging all their products since then based on that one is your loss.
John-NYBW richhotrain I have always felt that Bachmann really found its place with Spectrum steam. I have mever even considered Bachmann for diesels. Rich I did buy four non-sound Bachmann GP-7s, 2 NYC and 2 Pennsy. Decent runners but not a lot of detail. Mostly what they have offered in diesels were available from other manufacturers that I have a higher opinion of.
I did buy four non-sound Bachmann GP-7s, 2 NYC and 2 Pennsy. Decent runners but not a lot of detail. Mostly what they have offered in diesels were available from other manufacturers that I have a higher opinion of.
Agreed, one of the local clubs here bought a lot of those, never had any issues with them. But yes, detail is "basic".
I agree, Bachmann is not really what I am looking for in a diesel, except for the GE switchers, which are pretty basic in real life.
For me Proto2000 captured the right level of detail all those years ago.
Even some of BLI steam over the years are just "adequate" detail wise when compaired to the best Spectrum steamers, or to the Proto steamers.
And the fact that BLI makes their USRA Pacific and Mikado TOTALY generic and slaps a bunch of roadnames on them, that just flies in face of all their other products. The USRA Pacifics and Mikados locos from Bachmann have lots of proto specific details, correct bell and headlight locations, correct tenders and trailing trucks, etc.
Being a freelance modeler, I made use of the BLI Heavy Mikado by changing the trailing trucks to the more modern Delta type. These trucks came from Athearn, offered on their short lived USRA Pacific.
Which reinforces my long time belief that you cannot judge model quality or detail level by assuming everything from a given brand will be to the same standards.
Alton Junction
n012944 ATLANTIC CENTRAL Judging all their products since then based on that one is your loss. Not really. I don't do steam, and their sound value models are a overpriced small step above train set quality. No loss here. https://shop.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=258_288_298&products_id=8213 $365 with that gap in the pilot under the coupler? No thanks, no matter how much it comes under the MSRP.......
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Judging all their products since then based on that one is your loss.
Not really. I don't do steam, and their sound value models are a overpriced small step above train set quality. No loss here.
https://shop.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=258_288_298&products_id=8213
$365 with that gap in the pilot under the coupler? No thanks, no matter how much it comes under the MSRP.......
Well, I agree, I have already said I personally don't have any interest in Bachmann diesels other than the GE pieces I already have.
You don't do steam and I don't do 60's diesels.
Two good reasons why we are not interested in the same products.
Most of the other makers steam in the last 25 years have been busy just making big, flashy, "famous" locos that don't fit the theme of most modelers actually trying to model a specific railroad or even a freelance theme like me.
OR, when they do make medium sized "ordinary" steam, like the BLI Pacific and Mikado, they are COMPLETELY generic, like in 1966.
Bachmann on the other hand, while not always perfect, has made a long list of more ordinary locos and made them in lots of road specific variations.
And while not currently as diverse, their steam line still includes a lot of such locos, rather than one more company making UP Big Boys.....
And they all run very nice, as good or better than my eight pieces of BLI.
I have 5 of these:
And 11 of these Heavy Moutains in various versions, and roadnames:
And 5 of these 2-8-4's converted to freelanced 2-8-2's:
Just to name a few.
Bachmann locomotives...
I only have two of them.
My Spectrum 2-8-0 ran for the better part of 20 years, and then there was an accident, not the locomotive's issue, but it has never run again.
It makes a beautiful prop though for posing in pictures.
-Photograph by Kevin Parson
I also have a Bachmann B&O EM-1 2-8-8-4 that runs like a finely tuned Swiss watch. It is a wonder. It will snake through a 22" radius S-Curve with no modifications or complaints. I have never had a chance to run it on a layout.
So, Bachmann steamers have been good to me... but... I decided to go brass for everything, so there will probably not be any more.
The Bachmann 2-8-0 has been replaced by this sweet little honey of a consolidation.
I have never owned a Bachmann diesel locomotive.
I do not own any Bachmann freight cars or passenger cars.
Just one non-revenue car (pair).
I also need to make one BIG DISCLAIMER.
NONE of my locos, Bachmann or otherwise, have DCC decoders, sound or otherwise.
So all of my opinions are based on the DC operation of these locos after decoder removal if they came with decoders.
I have no opinions on sound quality. They all sound like 1968 pocket radios to me.
My Aristo Train Engineer radio throttles will not work with dual mode DCC decoders.
I have no interest in onboard locomotive sound.
I have heard a number of factory Bachmann sound locos on the layouts of others. They sounded similar in quality to other brands at the time, it is not something I have kept up on. I have not been involved in the social side of the hobby here locally for a number of years now, first as a result of family obligations, and then the pandemic.
John-NYBW ATLANTIC CENTRAL And, dispite no longer packaged as Spectrum, the 2-8-0 HAS NOT CHANGED. The 4-6-0 did loose some of its separately applied details, but otherwise is the same as Spectrum versions. I completely agree with you about the 2-8-0. I own three Spectrums and they are among my favorite locos. I own two 4-6-0s. For such a small loco, it runs quite well. My only gripe is the sound is pretty weak. I suspect that has improved since I got mine. Only one of mine has sound. Unfortunately, I don't have as much experience with as many Bachmann locos as you do so I don't know what is good and what is not. My roster is fairly complete and I don't have plans to add to it but if I did, I would be reluctant to choose a Bachmann loco that I didn't know to be of good quality.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL And, dispite no longer packaged as Spectrum, the 2-8-0 HAS NOT CHANGED. The 4-6-0 did loose some of its separately applied details, but otherwise is the same as Spectrum versions.
And, dispite no longer packaged as Spectrum, the 2-8-0 HAS NOT CHANGED.
The 4-6-0 did loose some of its separately applied details, but otherwise is the same as Spectrum versions.
I completely agree with you about the 2-8-0. I own three Spectrums and they are among my favorite locos.
I own two 4-6-0s. For such a small loco, it runs quite well. My only gripe is the sound is pretty weak. I suspect that has improved since I got mine. Only one of mine has sound.
Unfortunately, I don't have as much experience with as many Bachmann locos as you do so I don't know what is good and what is not. My roster is fairly complete and I don't have plans to add to it but if I did, I would be reluctant to choose a Bachmann loco that I didn't know to be of good quality.
I understand and agree.
dti406 Yes, Botchman is still Botchman! Rick Jesionowski
Yes, Botchman is still Botchman!
Rick Jesionowski
Well, whatever. As I explained above, some of it is very nice, and some of it you could not give me for free.
But I will say this - my mechanical failure rate with Bachmann has been has been less than my mechanical failure rate with BLI, and my warranty service from Bachmann has been much better than BLI.
I have 40 Bachmann locomotives (mostly steam, mostly Spectrum) and only 8 BLI.
So you can make all the smart @$$ comments you want every time somebody talks about Bachmann, but I model 1954 and they have made a long list of nice steam locos no one else has offered.
Spectrum GP30? I don't remember that, and a quick scan of Bachmann catalogs back to 2002 did not show one. There was a regular line GP30, not a bad runner, but train set quality detail wise.
Personally, except for the GE switchers, I never had any interest in Bachmann diesels, and a GP30 is out of my era by a good margin, so I would not even know who has made a nice one? Proto years ago?
Most of my diesels for my 1954 era are older Proto, Genesis and Intermountain F units, and a few other Athearn products.
Waiting for my new Bowser RS-3's.
So 40 years ago every car company made their share of junk, what are you driving today?
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