i'm curious what defines young.
i got started in junior high school when my father put a couple pieces of plywood together for a layout. but my paper route didn't give me much money for modeling. can't imagine how someone that age today could afford much
but at the club, two member just graduated high school and became full members. unfortunately, college will now be a significant distraction. getting married becomes an even greater distraction. one club member's father is a member of the club and significantly into the hobby.
so young could be junior high school with and without some adult mentoring, college and young parenthood.
at what age does desire meet reality
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
I decided to go back and re-read the OP's initial post.
The main premise seems to be that younger modelers are an often underrepresented and forgotten minority. I can neither agree nor disagree with this premise because my only contact with fellow modelers is through this forum, and I have no idea how old or young anyone is except for Mel and Harrison who make it clear that they are old and young, respectively.
As far as the old farts at train shows that are rude and crabby, I have already expressed my opinion on them in a previous post. But, in the few train shows that I have attended everyone, young and old alike, seemed to be treated in the same way - - either rudely or outright ignored. So, it is not a young person's problem. Any inexperienced modeler will be treated condescendingly at a train show in my experience.
The OP makes the assertion that younger modelers don't share their work on forums like this one and that is the reason that the young modeling community is often forgotten and unseen by the older folk. Speaking for myself, I don't think of modelers as young or old, so what's to forget? I only care about asking questions to those modelers with experience, answering questions for those modelers with less experience and generally reading about others layouts and experience. I suspect that many, many others on this forum feel the same way as I do.
The OP goes on to say that younger modelers don't have the huge income (some) people seem to believe. I am not at all sure that that statement can be supported because I know of no one who thinks that young modelers are wealthy. In fact, it seems clear that most members of this forum, young and old, are not wealthy from the statements that they post. And, most of us are sensitive to this budget concern.
The OP also points out that there are many younger modelers who are serious about this hobby too. I have no doubt that they are. Again, I suspect that most of the members of this forum feel the same way. Any member who is posting or even lurking, is likely to be serious about model railroading.
In conclusion, I would say that younger modelers are not generally stereotyped in any manner. Model railroading is a hobby and its participants are part of a niche community. Usually when the topic of younger modelers comes up on this forum, it deals with the reality that there are fewer young modelers today than there used to be, say in the 1950s.
Just my thoughts on the subject of younger modelers.
Rich
Alton Junction
Trainman440 This a reply to the "MRR costs an arm and a leg" topic. Its sort of branches off from the thread so I figured Id make it a seperate post. I admit I didnt read through all 245 replies so what I say might have already been repeated. Forgive me. ---------------------------- We young modelers do exist. Yes, there aren't a ton of us out here, but I've actually met a surprising number of fellow serious young modelers. No, we don't have the huge income (some) people seem to believe. We cant afford all the new RTR engines and cars just like everyone else in this hobby. We rely on other methods such a 3d printing and (attempt to) kitbashing to build our stuff. Or search tirelessly through ebay and shows for deals. I myself have a pretty large collection. It was entirely funded by doing restoration repair work and from reselling (and other hustles). I dont have a magical money vault. There are some young YTbers who buy and fix "junk", rarely ever doing any serious work. I personally dont like to associate with them (SMT mainline comes to mind). There are many of us who are serious about this hobby too. We do fairly complex repair and restoration work. Repower & remotoring, striving for accuracy and detail, etc. The problem is, we don't share our work too much on forums or sites like this. I and many others use instagram a lot, and post all my work there (link is down below lol). I realize most modelers don't have an instagram account, some dont even know what it is. That's why the young modeler community is often forgotten and unseen by the older folk for the most part. The sites we use are not the same as the sites you use. I currently use my facebook account for the sole purpose of joining some of the model train community groups. Another issue is that it often feels like some older modelers appear very unfriendly to us. Ive gotten used to it at this point, but the amount of condescending sellers at train shows is ridiculous. People who say "do you even know what brass is?" or "oh you model PRR? well take a look at this junker life-like 0-4-0 here", etc. Modelers who aren't friendly to new/young modelers, yet complain about why the hobby is dying just baffle me. You cant have your cake and eat it too. Of course I dont want to overgeneralize. Ive met numerous very nice experienced modelers who were extremely helpful. but I can say that meeting intimidating snobby modeler puts a bad taste in my mouth and could be a deterrent for many new comers from this hobby. To clarify, I cant represent the entire young adult community, but rather just my personal experience and the experience of a few of my friends. Still, we are a minority. An often underrepresented and forgotten minority. Just wanted to say that we do exist though! If you see one of us at a train show, understand that we really are trying our best to enjoy the hobby, even when we're overpaying for a new engine, or buying some old junkers to mess around with. Food for thought! Charles PS the goal of this post was not to criticize anyone, nor to provide suggestions in finding a solution. Rather, it was written to hopefully provide insight from an alternative prospective, and reasoning for why things might be the way they are.
This a reply to the "MRR costs an arm and a leg" topic.
Its sort of branches off from the thread so I figured Id make it a seperate post. I admit I didnt read through all 245 replies so what I say might have already been repeated. Forgive me.
----------------------------
We young modelers do exist. Yes, there aren't a ton of us out here, but I've actually met a surprising number of fellow serious young modelers.
No, we don't have the huge income (some) people seem to believe. We cant afford all the new RTR engines and cars just like everyone else in this hobby.
We rely on other methods such a 3d printing and (attempt to) kitbashing to build our stuff. Or search tirelessly through ebay and shows for deals.
I myself have a pretty large collection. It was entirely funded by doing restoration repair work and from reselling (and other hustles). I dont have a magical money vault.
There are some young YTbers who buy and fix "junk", rarely ever doing any serious work. I personally dont like to associate with them (SMT mainline comes to mind). There are many of us who are serious about this hobby too. We do fairly complex repair and restoration work. Repower & remotoring, striving for accuracy and detail, etc.
The problem is, we don't share our work too much on forums or sites like this. I and many others use instagram a lot, and post all my work there (link is down below lol). I realize most modelers don't have an instagram account, some dont even know what it is. That's why the young modeler community is often forgotten and unseen by the older folk for the most part. The sites we use are not the same as the sites you use. I currently use my facebook account for the sole purpose of joining some of the model train community groups.
Another issue is that it often feels like some older modelers appear very unfriendly to us. Ive gotten used to it at this point, but the amount of condescending sellers at train shows is ridiculous. People who say "do you even know what brass is?" or "oh you model PRR? well take a look at this junker life-like 0-4-0 here", etc. Modelers who aren't friendly to new/young modelers, yet complain about why the hobby is dying just baffle me. You cant have your cake and eat it too. Of course I dont want to overgeneralize. Ive met numerous very nice experienced modelers who were extremely helpful. but I can say that meeting intimidating snobby modeler puts a bad taste in my mouth and could be a deterrent for many new comers from this hobby.
To clarify, I cant represent the entire young adult community, but rather just my personal experience and the experience of a few of my friends.
Still, we are a minority. An often underrepresented and forgotten minority. Just wanted to say that we do exist though! If you see one of us at a train show, understand that we really are trying our best to enjoy the hobby, even when we're overpaying for a new engine, or buying some old junkers to mess around with.
Food for thought!
Charles
PS the goal of this post was not to criticize anyone, nor to provide suggestions in finding a solution. Rather, it was written to hopefully provide insight from an alternative prospective, and reasoning for why things might be the way they are.
Charles, thanks for your thoughts.
I have only one comment, regarding Instagram and Facebook, I belong to several model train groups on facebook, I do not have an Instagram account.
I dislike both of those platforms for one simple reason, the "here today - gone tomorrow" nature of them. The hit and miss, maybe you see it, maybe you don't, approach has me loosing interest in Facebook already in less than a year of light activity on there.
Of course my interest in this platform has deminished as well for other reasons, but be it model trains or GRAVELY tractors I just don't like or understand these platforms and their "soundbite" approach to the world.
Sheldon
We have seen a great increase in the number of younger modelers in our club (Danville VA model railroad club) over the past couple of years. We have a good mix some teens and others in their 20s and 30s a few like myself middle aged (although I refuse to admit that and grow up ) and some guys that rib one another about what general they were under in the Civil War...... That is what keeps a club healthy. I got involved as a teenager in a club with a similar mix. I was encouraged by both the older guys and the middle aged ones. That's the way to go.
I am guessing at 28 I am considered young in this group ypur referring to as a minority. I am afraid I have not gotten around to many of the project ideas I have thought about doing and have asked about on this forum due to lack of experaince as because I need to improve my job and income situation first, as well as gain experiance modelling slowly. I hope to get around to my project ideas as I owe those of you who have helped me with advice on them.I'm concerned that the cost of living, inflation, stagnent wages and the rising prices of the housing market here in Canada, and everywhere else inthe world is delaying interets, dreams and ambitions in this hobby for us and other older folk as well. With the cost of buying a home rising beyond the ability to save for, having a starter home, or even a home with enough space for that layout you wish to build over time isnt becoming possible.
I am a crusty old so and so. I am not hostile, heck I am downright friendly. But do stay off my lawn. Actually it isn't my lawn, I live in an old folks home. I think the internet changed things. Especially impressions. These days an interest group gathers online in some format or other. You get 100 people active in such a group and that is huge participation, a very active group. When I was a young fellow 60-70 years ago, if there were 100 like minded guys around the country, I would have no way of knowing any of them. I might find one or two as "pen pals". SO what may seem vibrant now would not have been a few generations ago.
I often see references to 3D printing and train show surfing for cheap goods, but to me that implies a more advanced "young person". No one starts out with a 3D printer and enough knowledge to find train shows and shop at them wisely. How many 12 year olds have that going? I know many have income, but many don't. I had a paper route. I don't know that they even HAVE paper routes anymore, at least not for 12 year old boys.
My first layout was Lionel on an old bedroom door. The raised parts between panels of the door became streets. Dad extended one side of the door for more room. That was 70 yeats ago, and I loved my Plasticville. Also had a "tunnel", a plastic thing about a foot long, but it was a tunnel. No less realistic than three rail track. Today it gets pooh poohed, but the stuff Menards sells is a modern day equivalent. I like them. Realistic? No, but fun. I can set up a ring of track on a 4x8, and add a power plant, a depot, a fast food joint, even a flying saucer landing. When I was 9 that would have been exciting. Remember the lionel cattle car, with the vibrating part that made the cattle shuffle into the car?
Bravo Charles!
As a young (47) model train person, I can attest to much of what you said. We are a minority but a strong one. We are the folks who understand a lot of how to use technology to showcase our efforts, seek advice, and remain attuned to relevant developments.
You bring up a lot of other soild points and commend you for taking the discussion in a different direction. It seems that a few (very few) forget that their negative comments can scare away folks from trying this hobby. Whether intentional or not is not for me to judge, but I hope they understand that they too started somewhere.
I do see young modelers doing serious and excellent work at train shows and elsewhere, and it is also my experience that it is young and "younger" modelers who are leading the way in what 3D printing can do for the hobby, some to the extent of becoming manufacturers.
I also agree with Rich that some grouchy geezers are just the worst advertising for model railroading as a hobby.
There is no particular reason to think the generational issues in the hobby will be all that much different than generational divides in music and entertainment. But I do feel sorry for young model railroaders because of the costs of the hobby, and how those costs are reflected in available goods.
There was a progression to an earlier era of model railroad materials that isn't there any more. Plastic kits were cheap, but Plasticville was cheaper and at least a few Plasticville items (signal bridge, ranch house, home under construction) were credible models. Balsa, not the greatest material maybe but look what E.L. Moore could do with it: balsa used to be dirt cheap, and plentiful at the LHS. If you wanted to try your hand at detailing or modifying a locomotive or freight car, maybe those beautiful Kemtron or Cal-Scale lost wax brass castings were outside your price range, but the Selley line of white metal castings was really inexpensive, and with careful work you'd get good results and learn a few things about working with tools, materials and adhesives to boot.
Consider the Kurtz-Kraft boxcar kits: separately applied details, accurate, a genuine challenge but no special tools or cements needed that a teen who built plastic autos or airplanes didn't already have. And they cost less than a buck, plus you'd need trucks and couplers. Build a few of those and you were ready for the next level, perhaps Pacific HO or the Ambroid kits.
That is what is different about today. There might not even BE a next level but if there is, both it and the lower level really do not encourage someone just trying to get their feet wet with a skill or with the hobby at large. It isn't just the costs are high. It's that the high costs are too often seemingly unrelated to what you get.
Try pricing "pre-built" Plasticville at a train show (assuming you can even wrap your mind around the whole concept of pre-built Plasticville). Don't tell me about tooling costs. The cost of that tooling was fully amortized around, oh, 1958. I rest my case.
Dave Nelson
Trainman440 Another issue is that it often feels like some older modelers appear very unfriendly to us. Ive gotten used to it at this point, but the amount of condescending sellers at train shows is ridiculous. People who say "do you even know what brass is?" or "oh you model PRR? well take a look at this junker life-like 0-4-0 here", etc. Modelers who aren't friendly to new/young modelers, yet complain about why the hobby is dying just baffle me. You cant have your cake and eat it too. Of course I dont want to overgeneralize. Ive met numerous very nice experienced modelers who were extremely helpful. but I can say that meeting some experienced snobby modeler puts a bad taste in my mouth and may deter many new comers from this hobby.
Another issue is that it often feels like some older modelers appear very unfriendly to us. Ive gotten used to it at this point, but the amount of condescending sellers at train shows is ridiculous. People who say "do you even know what brass is?" or "oh you model PRR? well take a look at this junker life-like 0-4-0 here", etc. Modelers who aren't friendly to new/young modelers, yet complain about why the hobby is dying just baffle me. You cant have your cake and eat it too. Of course I dont want to overgeneralize. Ive met numerous very nice experienced modelers who were extremely helpful. but I can say that meeting some experienced snobby modeler puts a bad taste in my mouth and may deter many new comers from this hobby.
The members of this forum don't seem to be that way, but when several local hobby shops were still open in my area, the owners and employees were fine, but there were always small groups of "old timers" sitting along the window sills, silently intimidating the rest of us shoppers by their presence. Just hanging around, talking loudly, complaining, whatever. The train shows were even worse, so I stopped going to them.
I think that experiences like that lend to the thought that model railroading is an old man's hobby.
Trainman440 We young modelers do exist. Yes, there aren't a ton of us out here, but I've actually met a surprising number of fellow serious young modelers. No, we don't have the huge income people seem to believe. We cant afford all the new RTR engines and cars just like everyone else in this hobby. The problem is, we don't share our work too much on forums or sites like this. I and many others use instagram a lot, and post all my work there (link is down below lol). I realize most modelers don't have an instagram account, some dont even know what it is. That's why the young modeler community is forgotten and unseen by the older folk for the most part. And its kind of a problem...we each use different sources of media with little overlap. Another issue is that it often feels like some older modelers appear very unfriendly to us. Ive gotten used to it at this point, but the amount of condescending sellers at train shows is ridiculous. People who say "do you even know what brass is?" or "oh you model PRR? well take a look at this junker life-like 0-4-0 here", etc. Modelers who aren't friendly to new/young modelers, yet complain about why the hobby is dying just baffle me. You cant have your cake and eat it too. Of course I dont want to overgeneralize. Ive met numerous very nice experienced modelers who were extremely helpful. but I can say that meeting some experienced snobby modeler puts a bad taste in my mouth and may deter many new comers from this hobby. Food for thought. Cheers, Charles
No, we don't have the huge income people seem to believe. We cant afford all the new RTR engines and cars just like everyone else in this hobby.
The problem is, we don't share our work too much on forums or sites like this. I and many others use instagram a lot, and post all my work there (link is down below lol). I realize most modelers don't have an instagram account, some dont even know what it is. That's why the young modeler community is forgotten and unseen by the older folk for the most part. And its kind of a problem...we each use different sources of media with little overlap.
Food for thought.
Cheers,
Sounds like not much has changed in 40 years. Much as I remember it from childhood/adolescence.
Judging by the number of younger modelers I see at train shows I have no doubt the hobby is in good hands. I really enjoy interacting with kids and find myself answering a lot of questions they seem to have.
I was heading into town early one morning and the kid down the road was on his bike heading out, so as always I stopped and picked him up and threw his bike in the back of the truck as it is nine miles to town. Turns out he got a job at Mcdonald's at $22.00 an hour. He works 10 hours Saturday and 10 hours Sunday and pulls in $600.00 every weekend. He is not a train guy but if he was $600.00 a week would cover a lot of MRR stuff.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
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Modeling the PRR & NYC in HO
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