Dear All,
I have ALCO-PA units made by MTH, Older Life like Proto 2000 and Walthres Main Line. Each of them has its ups and downs, but shapewise I am not happy with any of them. Does the latest issue by Rapido look better than the above variants?
Thanks in advance
khierbut shapewise I am not happy with any of them.
Rapido scanned one of the few remaining PAs, Doyle Mc Cormack's former Santa Fe #18 so is "should" prove to be accurate shapewise.
My present roster is only the former Life-Like Proto 2000 models. I did not care to venture into the MTH offering. I'm pretty satisfied with the Protos but I'll pick up a couple of the Rapido models when they become available.
You can see test shots here:
https://rapidotrains.com/ho-scale/diesel-locomotives/pa-1.html
Some details aren't perfect on Rapido models, so there may be issues but no one will know until they are in buyer's hands. I have some of their FL9s and I'm not too convinced about the look of the glued-in number boards. At least they are illuminated which is a plus over any of the Highliner Genesis models.
A few of my Rapido locos had to be returned for motor replacements, decoders and mechanical problems. Their track record is good... not great. They DO stand behind their warranty work but sometimes packaging and shipping a new model back to Markham can be a headache (and costly). I understand they have a U.S. repair address.
I'll be able to give a better answer after I have a Rapido PA in my hands (and on the track).
khierI am not happy with any of them.
Specifically, what is the detraction?
In advance, Good Luck, Ed
gmpullman Rapido scanned one of the few remaining PAs, Doyle Mc Cormack's former Santa Fe #18 so is "should" prove to be accurate shapewise. ...
...
Overall, I agree with your assessment. Modeling the Santa Fe, Rapido has not produced much that I am interested in. The RDC-1/2 Budd Rail Cars look and run beautifully, and I am eagerly awaiting the PAs.
Just a small correction. The Santa Fe # of McCormack's PA was 62L. It was renumbered #18 by the next owner, the D&H.
JW
Good news: Rapido's B36-7 was a home run for Santa Fe modelers. They really nailed the LED flashing Santa Fe beacon. They also are developing a "correct" Santa Fe U25B (rear steps adjacent radiators are different from other units), and a GP38 is also in development.
Bad news: The painting of the Kodachrome paint scheme Santa Fe B36-7 #7497 was absolutely horrible. There are about 3 very different shades of yellow on the unit, due to incorrect priming prior to painting the yellow, and the SP Red is way off color with respect to both prototype photos and many other Kodachrome models that have been made. Rapido refused to do anything whatsoever to correct these positively horrible paint jobs. When ScaleTrains, Athearn and Bowser have made mistakes in loco painting, they (all 3) have owned their mistakes and offered new replacement bodies with corrected paint.
(I have brand new Athearn Kodachrome units on hand that are a much better match to the photos in the Morning Sun SPSF diesel book.)
PRR8259 Bad news: The painting of the Kodachrome paint scheme Santa Fe B36-7 #7497 was absolutely horrible. There are about 3 very different shades of yellow on the unit, due to incorrect priming prior to painting the yellow, and the SP Red is way off color with respect to both prototype photos and many other Kodachrome models that have been made. Rapido refused to do anything whatsoever to correct these positively horrible paint jobs. When ScaleTrains, Athearn and Bowser have made mistakes in loco painting, they (all 3) have owned their mistakes and offered new replacement bodies with corrected paint.
Alton Junction
The first pics of Rapido's PAs just showed up in today's news letter:
https://myemail.constantcontact.com/Rapido-News-152---The-calm-before-the-storm-.html?soid=1101318906379&aid=B4aJ0YzkNas
My only complaint is the windshield "glass". It looks like coke-bottle eyeglasses - way too thick. Athearn Genesis has solved this problem much better in their F3/7/9s.
DrWMy only complaint is the windshield "glass". It looks like coke-bottle eyeglasses - way too thick.
I noticed that too. It was also a problem on some of their passenger cars. My "Park" series obs has thick glazing and there were light "leaks" between the black gaskets and side walls:
Park_tail by Edmund, on Flickr
I solved it (mostly) by painting a mask around the gasketed area.
Park_glaze1 by Edmund, on Flickr
I was disappointed in the BLI Pennsy P5a front and especially the side cab glazing:
BLI_P5a by Edmund, on Flickr
BLI_P5a-Cab by Edmund, on Flickr
I sent a message to AMB Laserkit who has offered some laser-cut replacement windows for some models but they replied that they haven't had much interest in this P5a.
Too bad, it really detracts from a nice model. Athearn is, I believe, using the nice glazing made by Paul Lubliner at least on the Highliner shells from his outfit.
Regards, Ed
gmpullman My "Park" series obs has thick glazing and there were light "leaks" between the black gaskets and side walls:
My "Park" series obs has thick glazing and there were light "leaks" between the black gaskets and side walls:
Rich
Look at the cylinders on the trucks in all the Rapido PA photos. They are all crooked; they should be horizontal. Others have noticed a lack of detail around the coupler pockets.
I'm thinking the Overland Models Alco PA's look better, despite the many years that have passed since they were made.
PRR8259 Look at the cylinders on the trucks in all the Rapido PA photos. They are all crooked; they should be horizontal.
Look at the cylinders on the trucks in all the Rapido PA photos. They are all crooked; they should be horizontal.
Interesting observation. But they do not seem to be randomly crooked. It looks intentional. They seem to follow the curve of the top of the truck frame. Of course, you are correct that they should be horizontal.
DrW PRR8259 Look at the cylinders on the trucks in all the Rapido PA photos. They are all crooked; they should be horizontal. Interesting observation. But they do not seem to be randomly crooked. It looks intentional. They seem to follow the curve of the top of the truck frame. Of course, you are correct that they should be horizontal.
Well, looking at these pictures, I'm glad they canceled my preporder for undecorated versions - my Proto units look better.
And they run just fine, even after all these years.
Window glass thickness? Nose curvature? I'm glad the therapy worked.
Sheldon
They need to stop announcing so many new products and make only some of the new products but actually get them right.
Therapy? What therapy? related to trains somehow?
I mean this hobby can lead to addictive tendencies, and I've been working on being content with the trains I have...finally to a good place there...new fleet of SD45-2's from Athearn. Few items on pre-order for next year but 80% already paid for via others that were sold. If the pre-orders never show up I can be happy with the fleet that is here. I don't have to have more.
Only thing I'm really looking for is a good plate B, as delivered 1975 era Railbox box car.
I have all the locos and freight cars I'd ever need.
John
PRR8259 They need to stop announcing so many new products and make only some of the new products but actually get them right. Therapy? What therapy? related to trains somehow? I mean this hobby can lead to addictive tendencies, and I've been working on being content with the trains I have...finally to a good place there...new fleet of SD45-2's from Athearn. Few items on pre-order for next year but 80% already paid for via others that were sold. If the pre-orders never show up I can be happy with the fleet that is here. I don't have to have more. Only thing I'm really looking for is a good plate B, as delivered 1975 era Railbox box car. I have all the locos and freight cars I'd ever need. John
It was a joke - rivet counter therapy/OCD therapy.
I could have gone down that road years ago and realized it was stealing the fun from the hobby.
I'm sure I know more about what is "wrong" (inaccurate) with my models than any ten people who will ever view my layout - guess what, I don't care.
I am much more interested in the bigger picture, the artistic impression, the overall "effect" of the layout, rather than obsessing over the close up details of each piece of equipment.
That's why in 55 years I have never sold off my trains and bought new ones.......
They run the whole range from Athearn and Varney metal cars to the finest RTR stuff available today, from Athearn Blue Box kits to models I have carefully built or kit bashed from scratch or from craftsman kits - and I am fine with that.
At this point it is unlikely Rapido will ever sell me a locomotive.......
They burned me on some locos.
I have one really nice Rapido CR B36-7.
PRR8259 I'm thinking the Overland Models Alco PA's look better, despite the many years that have passed since they were made.
Well, if you really want to splurge, Division Point accepts reservations for their upcoming PA/PBs. Judging by their recent Diesel locomotive production (I have seen the 2017 Alco RSD-5 and the 2019 Baldwin DT-6-6-2000), the models will be top-notch. Unfortunately, so will be the prices. The DT-6-6-2000 had an MSRP of $1,600. I would guess the PA/PBs will be in the $2,000 range per unit.
PRR8259 They burned me on some locos. I have one really nice Rapido CR B36-7.
For me, Rapido is just late to the party. Speaking of diesels, they only make 5 locos in my era, all of which I have plenty of from other makers, with which I am perfectly happy. AND/OR Rapido has failed to offer roadnames and color schemes of interest to me.
To whatever degree these various Rapido models are "better" than what I have, is, in my opinion, well past the point of deminishing return. So while I might consider them for an addition to the roster, I would never be replacing what I have unless they would become unserviceable.
I gave them a shot and preordered some undecorated PA's - they decided not to build them - seeing the finished models, glad it worked out the way it did. For that money I can buy lots of NOS Proto units and repair/refit as needed.
DrW PRR8259 I'm thinking the Overland Models Alco PA's look better, despite the many years that have passed since they were made. Well, if you really want to splurge, Division Point accepts reservations for their upcoming PA/PBs. Judging by their recent Diesel locomotive production (I have seen the 2017 Alco RSD-5 and the 2019 Baldwin DT-6-6-2000), the models will be top-notch. Unfortunately, so will be the prices. The DT-6-6-2000 had an MSRP of $1,600. I would guess the PA/PBs will be in the $2,000 range per unit.
I once played with HO brass but that is way too rich for me now. One son in college...one following. I have to be happy with Athearn Genesis and Genesis 2.0.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL At this point it is unlikely Rapido will ever sell me a locomotive.......
I am sure they are fine with that, as it does not seem you match the customer they are making their models for for. The Rapido buisness model is for people that want a model that is as close to the prototype as possible. If you are fine with modeled on grab irons or passenger cars that are not scale length then you are not their intended customer.
Of course that is fine, as the hobby is big enough for people who don't value thos details, along with those cusstomers that do. I am sure Athearn knows that I am not a customer for their Roundhouse line, or Bachmann does not market their models to me, and that is okay as well.
An "expensive model collector"
n012944 ATLANTIC CENTRAL At this point it is unlikely Rapido will ever sell me a locomotive....... I am sure they are fine with that, as it does not seem you match the customer they are making their models for for. The Rapido buisness model is for people that want a model that is as close to the prototype as possible. If you are fine with modeled on grab irons or passenger cars that are not scale length then you are not their intended customer. Of course that is fine, as the hobby is big enough for people who don't value thos details, along with those cusstomers that do. I am sure Athearn knows that I am not a customer for their Roundhouse line, or Bachmann does not market their models to me, and that is okay as well.
Again, completely agreed. I just bought a few of the new Rapido F30 flat cars as an addition to the piggyback fleet - undecorated kits for my ATLANTIC CENTRAL.
And, as stated before, I have lots of stuff like Spring Mills Depot, Fox Valley, Intermountain, Athearn Genesis F units, etc, etc.
But as I begin construction of another layout that will require 1000 freight cars, I have no plans to replace the "other" 100 piggyback cars I have built, kit bashed, and bought over the last 55 years.
I have new Bowser RS-3's on preorder, C&O and Western Maryland, but I have no intention of limiting my modeling to RTR models that are "perfect", especially considering two factors, my existing investment of time and money, and the lack of suitable models in that "class" of products for a number items in my era.
So actually, I am a potential Rapido customer, even for a locomotive. But they decided not to make undecorated versions, which I did have on preorder when first announced, then they canceled those items. Seeing the early photos of the actual model, I'm not impressed - price asside. My 30 year old Proto models are better in several ways - like scale front coupler position and close coupling, similar to these Proto E units:
But one thing that is REAL important to me, is this - working diaphragms that touch, and close coupled passenger cars. Something none of these high end manufactures have managed to do completely or perfectly, yet I have no trouble doing it, be it on a Branchline kit or a kit bashed Athearn or ConCor car.
Look at that, Athearn cars with wire grab irons.
And a Branchline car and a ConCor car working in perfect harmony.
Yes, we all do what is important to us.
n012944 The Rapido buisness model is for people that want a model that is as close to the prototype as possible.
The Rapido buisness model is for people that want a model that is as close to the prototype as possible.
If this is the case, why do they make foobies? Their Santa Fe steam generator car does not even look remotely like the prototype; ATSF 9000-9004 were based on 6-axle tenders, not on 4-axle boxcars. Rapido's Santa Fe steam generator car is just a (probably) Canadian prototype painted in yellow and navy blue.
DrW n012944 The Rapido buisness model is for people that want a model that is as close to the prototype as possible. If this is the case, why do they make foobies? Their Santa Fe steam generator car does not even look remotely like the prototype; ATSF 9000-9004 were based on 6-axle tenders, not on 4-axle boxcars. Rapido's Santa Fe steam generator car is just a (probably) Canadian prototype painted in yellow and navy blue.
Because they need to sell enough models to cover the cost of production so they can make the correct models for those who care.
And there are modelers out there who will buy them, even knowing they are not correct for a particular roadname.
GMD built the prototype of the Rapido model, I have no idea if roads other than those in Canada ever had that exact car.
Most steam generator cars were home made by the railroads and all were unique.
Not much need for them here in the temperate Mid Atlantic, a couple PA's had more than a enough steam capacity for trains in this climate.
I knew it was just a matter of time before that bad word, "foobie" would rear its ugly head in this thread.
Nobody is, or was ever, trying to intentionally "fool" anyone - it was, and still is, a pratical consideration to provide people with models since it is impossible to make a correct model of every piece of rolling stock for every day/time/era/place/roadname in history.
ATLANTIC CENTRALI gave them a shot and preordered some undecorated PA's - they decided not to build them - seeing the finished models, glad it worked out the way it did.
Same here.
Not getting the Rapido undecorated PAs I pre-ordered was a blessing in disguise.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Full disclosure: I work for Rapido but only part time as a contractor. I am not speaking for the company or Jason or anyone else, just me. These are just my opinions only.DrW,The windshield glass is tricky because the outside surface of the glass is supposed to be very close to being flush with the surrounding sheet metal (along with a raised aluminum window gasket). The thickness of the plastic shell is much greater than the real thing by necessity, which means the model's glass has to have a "step" to fit in the opening from the inside like an angled (like a parallelogram) plug. The model's glass should actually be pretty thin in cross section; what we're seeing at the sides and bottom of the front windows are the sides of the plug, not the thickness of the plastic window itself. I suspect the glass was made angled like it was in order to fit straight in to the shell from the inside. Note that there is no apparent extra "thickness" at the top of each window; if the glass was actually thick, we'd see it at the top, too.The Rapido steam generator car is just about as close to being 100% correct for Canadian steam gen. cars as one can get in HO scale plastic. Jason, as I'm sure you're aware, needs them for his layout...and remember that Jason started Rapido because he wanted to make models for his own layout while selling enough of them to finance the whole thing. And who wouldn't do that if they could? I would. Anyways, the issue is that Canada only has about 10% of the US population, and thus signficantly fewer model railroaders overall. The only way to make enough money to cover the cost of running Canadian steam gen. cars was to sell them painted for as many US roads as would sell. It's a very accurate Canadian car...just not accurately painted for US roads. It's the same reason why Model Railroader sells advertising; something has to pay the bills, especially on oddball cars like a steam gen. I mean, how many people are going to buy more than one of those? (Other than Jason, that is.) The other option was not to make the steam gen. car at all. I don't particularly like foobies, but I understand the necessity of them at times.John (PRR8259),I can assure you that every Rapido CAD drawing shows all the truck brake cylinders mounted perfectly horizontal. FWIW, just looking at brasstrains.com, not every Overland PA has perfectly straight brake cylinders, either.Pilot details: the Overland models either have no couplers or they have Kadee #58s in regular Kadee #5-type boxes with the ears. The Rapido models have Kadee-type clone couplers in plastic boxes that are no worse than the Kadee ones. At least the Rapido ones are painted to match prototype paint schemes, unlike the Overland PAs. The Overlands have even less pilot details than the Rapidos do. I think what some people want are scale coupler boxes, and that perhaps is a 'bridge too far' for many home layouts. I believe the Rapido coupler boxes can be removed and entirely replaced with scale boxes if someone wants to do that, but how many modelers do you think want that vs. how many would complain that their Rapido PA won't go around sharp curves without derailing the cars behind it?The Overland PA windshields are entirely incorrect. They have the same height from side to side when in reality PA windshields got narrower as they got closer to the center post. Real PAs kinda look "angry" while the Overland PAs kinda look "surprised," or maybe with a sad, resigned expression. Also, the Overland windshield bottoms follow the nose contour exactly. Real PAs do not; they move slightly away from the nose top as they get closer to the sides of the loco. So no, I do not think the Overland PAs look better than the Rapido ones. Sheldon,The Proto PAs do not look better than the Rapido ones, either. The Proto PAs have a much too heavy "unibrow" look to their windshields. Their windshields also have flat tops to them when the real PA windows are arched. Combine that to the thick unibrow, and the Proto PAs have windshields that are too small in height and look 'squinty.' And they aren't even trying to make them flush with the surrounding sheetmetal. They are clearly recessed the thickness of the plastic shell, and same goes for the cab side windows and side portholes. The side handrails are metal wire on the Rapidos, and you know how fragile the plastic ones are on the Protos. The coupler cut levers are molded in place on the Protos, the headlights should not be flush with the nose grille but be recessed, and one should be able to tell if the headlight is a twin sealed beam, Gyralite, or a reflector. Rapido PAs have all three kinds of lights; Proto PAs only have a weak but giant light bulb (or two) that spills out the bottom of the pilot like an old Athearn BB model. The Proto PA is a very nice model for 1998 when it was released; I know - I have nine of them (all NH...of course!). But the Rapido model has waaaay more options and details and is much more accurate than the Proto. If you don't care how your current Proto models look (saying that you don't care that they are inaccurate), then why say your Protos look better? Do looks matter or don't they? I mean, to each their own. If you're happy with the Proto PAs, enjoy them! But you can't say looks don't matter and then say you're glad that your Protos look better.And yes, Rapido pulled the plug on the Undec. units because so few people pre-ordered them. No one can say they didn't try to make them, but facts are facts. That being said, Rapido does have a policy that they will make Undec. models of anything if someone orders 6 of them (and in groups of 6; so like 6, 12, or 18, etc., not 7, 9, or 15). They all have to be the same version, and they have to be a type they are already making in that run. So for example, if you wanted 6 Undec. ATSF-version PAs, you could have gotten them in this run. But if you wanted 6 Undec. PAs for a railroad they aren't making, then no.And Sheldon...c'mon about the Proto close coupling. The Proto E-unit and the Proto PA were so notoriously not close coupling that Kadee actually made a close coupling kit for them. It was the Kadee #455 kit and yes, I bought several of them. I just measured my own unmodified PAs, and back to back there's a 1/4" difference between unit diaphragms with the slack pulled out. No, I'm not kidding. That's like Athearn BB F-unit spacing. The Proto FA-1s, OTOH, are so close coupling it's nigh impossible to uncouple them without a magnet or a derailment.
Paul,
Yes Kadee did the close coupling - but it exists and it works. ALL my Proto PA's and E units are set up with it.
Just like my own standards for passenger car diaphragms with American Limited parts work.
I buy a $30 or even $50 passenger car and have to do some work to get what I want, OK. I'm not buying $120 (or more) passenger cars and still having to rebuild the coupler mounts and diaphragms.
The Rapido PA is likely more accurately dimensioned, I'm not arguing that - but the impression the various models give in the pictures that have been published do not impress me. Not sure what the problem is, but I see lots of little assembly flaws? And the front coupler "way" out there, with the coupler box so visible, the Proto wider opening with the Kadee kit setting it back to a more prototype position is more tollerable to my eyes, and operationally more acceptable.
All my PA's say "ATLANTIC CENTRAL", the other three roads I model did not own them. So road specific details are a low value point for me. I picked the Proto version I liked decades ago - dynamic brakes, 45 degree number boards.
I've never had any real problem with Proto handrails - but I don't lug my trains back and forth to a club - I don't even take them on or off the layout much. I don't own significantly more locos or rolling stock than the layout will hold or require. Once it goes on the rails it will generally stay there.
I have a bunch of Proto FA/FB's, the consists don't get uncoupled much, it is not part of my operational scheme for the most part.
In general, close coupling is a very important appearance feature for me. I even reduce the distance between some freight cars that are WAY too wide.
When I couple a passenger car to the front of my Proto PA's or E units, the diaphragms come right up on the buffer, and they operate just fine on my 36" and above curves.
Well when I preordered the PA's I was in for 2 A units and 2 B units, tell Jason I'm sorry that was not enough.
We all decide differently what is important to spend our time and money on and what is not.
Close coupling is about realistic impression of the whole train, more important to me than detailed accuracy of each car as long as they are "representitive".
Just like all these people who insist on "perfectly accurate" passenger cars and run them on 30" radius curves - to my eye they look rediculous as the little passengers have to jump the 3 foot gaps. Might as well be LIONEL, or stock Athearn cars on 18" radius.
My modeling goals are mostly about the big view artistic impression, not so much about being the engineer or being trackside. My layout will do that, but that is mainly reserved for the ISL that is "within" the larger layout.
Like I said earlier, the F30 flat cars are beautiful, but I'm not replacing 100 flat cars, many kitsbashed, painted and decaled, not just "popped out of a box".
OK, I'm way past my forum time allotment, take care.
Sheldon,I don't understand the mentality of cost being a factor in modifying (by improving) your models, especially since you've said many times that you don't sell anything. If you're never going to sell it, why care what it cost? Just make it the way you want it. Why does it matter if a passenger car cost $20 or $120?For the Rapido PA front coupler position, I'm sure it was set where it was for the tight radius curves that many people have as it is a rigid pocket (unlike the swinging Proto PA coupler). Fortunately, the way Rapido has made the front and rear couplers, the boxes can be replaced (they are not molded in place), and if you want to move the couplers back, there's plenty of room to drill and tap a new coupler mounting hole behind the original one. About curves and long cars, we've had this discussion before. I agree that long cars whenever they are on short curves are unrealistic. However, short cars are always unrealistic no matter where they are. I'm modeling specific models; the closer to the prototype, the better (for me). I'm just not interested in compromising on length. I'd rather have a 1/8" gap between diaphragms (with the slack pulled out) than live with a 72' car model of an 85' prototype. You, OTOH, feel the opposite way. And while I respect that, it's just not for me. Just like I don't model a home road, I model the NH. I'm a NH fan first and a modeler second. I have absolutely no interest in inventing my own railroad to model. It's too much like "make believe" for me. My modeling goal is to tell the story of the NH and not big artistic impressions. We're both modeling, just from different aspects.
I, too, am not interested in selling off my older models. Heck, I still have my custom painted Athearn BB PA's. But I'm still going to get some Rapido PAs.
Completely agreed, I get it.
To be completely clear about passenger cars, when I was as that acquisition/decission point in my modeling the choices for passenger cars were pretty poor.
AHM/IHC - a mix of somewhat acurate, mis matched poor quality stuff that is amittedly good kitbash fodder.
Athearn/ConCor/Roundhouse - selectively compressed, generic, but with otherwise good lines and good running qualities, and better kitbash fodder in a lot of ways.
Brass.......... Often not all that good.......
Bachmann had just entered the market - early Spectrum cars, limited selection, so-so running qualities.
Walthers was in the earliest phases of plastic passenger cars - not a big selection.
No Broadway, Rapido, MTH, etc.
Based on the roads I planned to model, and the home road freelance thing, I made the choices I made - I may not have invested much in the cars themselves, but I invested a lot in detail parts and construction time.
I'm still happy with that choice considering the poor representation of B&O passenger cars to this day. C&O is a little better, Western Maryland is a joke.
An Athearn heavyweight coach with 4 wheel trucks is actually pretty accurate for the WM, kitbash a combine, letter a bagage car, there you go - they did not have much 85' equipment.......
I have a selection of fairly "correct" passenger cars, Branchline cars that the B&O had, Spectrum cars that are close. But I don't loose any sleep over the ones that are generic.
You can take a smooth side B&O ConCor 72' car, put heavyweight trucks under it, and be closer to correct for the home rebuilt B&O cars than any of these manufacturers have bothered to offer..
I was not going to wait around for correct models years ago, I still won't.
I was already 170 cars invested when the selection got better, and it still is lacking for the roads I model.
And most people don't know the difference, just like I'm not a New Haven expert, except maybe regarding piggyback.
Paul3 DrW,The windshield glass is tricky because the outside surface of the glass is supposed to be very close to being flush with the surrounding sheet metal (along with a raised aluminum window gasket). The thickness of the plastic shell is much greater than the real thing by necessity, which means the model's glass has to have a "step" to fit in the opening from the inside like an angled (like a parallelogram) plug. The model's glass should actually be pretty thin in cross section; what we're seeing at the sides and bottom of the front windows are the sides of the plug, not the thickness of the plastic window itself. I suspect the glass was made angled like it was in order to fit straight in to the shell from the inside. Note that there is no apparent extra "thickness" at the top of each window; if the glass was actually thick, we'd see it at the top, too.
DrW,The windshield glass is tricky because the outside surface of the glass is supposed to be very close to being flush with the surrounding sheet metal (along with a raised aluminum window gasket). The thickness of the plastic shell is much greater than the real thing by necessity, which means the model's glass has to have a "step" to fit in the opening from the inside like an angled (like a parallelogram) plug. The model's glass should actually be pretty thin in cross section; what we're seeing at the sides and bottom of the front windows are the sides of the plug, not the thickness of the plastic window itself. I suspect the glass was made angled like it was in order to fit straight in to the shell from the inside. Note that there is no apparent extra "thickness" at the top of each window; if the glass was actually thick, we'd see it at the top, too.
Thank you very much for your detailed response. I am happy to learn that the Alco PA/PB models will have the brake cylinders in the correct position, and I am looking forward to receiving the pair I ordered. I understand that the thickness of the shell determines the "apparent" thickness of the windows. I just wonder how Genesis/Highliner manage to have thinner window pillars in their F3/7s. Admittedly, I am comparing here the PA pics with an actual Genesis model; thus, the final comparison has to wait until I have the Rapido model in my hand.
As to the Santa Fe steam generator car, I got a good deal on the brass model by TCY. I agree that a steam generator car will not find wide interest, especially for railroads that do not reach Canada or the northern US, like the Santa Fe. Even in the prototype, they were rare - Santa Fe rebuilt only five 6-axle tenders into steam generator cars. Pics of them as part of a train (and not parked in a yard) are extremely rare - I only have one. They were supposedly used mostly in troop trains in WWII and the Korean War. TCY produced 50 units of the model, and they only very rarely show up on the market, recently with a price tag 50% higher than the 2005 MSRP.
Sheldon,Ah, yes, I remember those days of bad passenger car models. Con-Cor & Rivarossi were considered top notch; Athearn BB and Roundhouse were lower tier; and then you had either Tyco/Bachman/Life-Like junk or old metal/wood cars like O.K. or Ambroid & LaBelle. Brass was either out of my reach or didn't run well...or both! The Bachmann Spectrum cars I have to slightly disagree with you on. Yes, limited selection (PRR coach, PRR combine, diner, Pullman, Observation), but if you bought the Jay-Bee coupler conversion pads and ripped out those dumb swiveling coupler boxes (and added a drop of oil to every axle bearing), the Spectrum cars operate quite well. I still have eight Spectrum Pullman cars I re-painted and haul behind some Hudson and Pacific engines. My cars really roll and I've never had derailments with them. I actually kinda like them. I just wish they were models of a more common Pullman prototype, but oh well. Yeah, there's not much in B&O pass. cars that I know of. But that's what you get when the railroad modernizes old heavyweights instead of buying new cars of a standard design. I'll take your word on C&O cars, but even I know that WM was not exactly a passenger road. I did buy the inaccurate NH cars that were available back in the day (Bev-Bel Athearn BBs and Rivarossis), but I'm more than happy to expand my fleet with Rapido, Walthers, and Atlas/Branchline cars which are so much better. Imagine if someone decided to make high-end B&O cars that you want very badly. That's what it is like with me with these Rapido NH cars. I'm going broke buying Rapido NH passenger cars but I'm so happy about it. Gimme more! DrW,I'm afraid the brake cylinders are probably crooked on most, if not all, Rapido PAs. It's impossible to know for sure until they arrive. The Rapido CAD files show them all straight; they were supposed to be attached so that they are level with the body sill as it was drawn by the engineers. Unfortunately, it appears that the workers at the factory decided on their own to make them parallel with the top of the truck sideframes instead because it probably "looked right" to them. They do stick up and look like they are in the way when level. I'm relatively certain the truck side frames were built as a sub-assembly, then mounted to the truck gear boxes, then put in the chassis, and then the shell was put on the chassis and put in the box to be shipped. As such, no one at the factory noticed that they were not level with the body sill.Some good news is that the brake cylinders all have a single round post into a round hole on the sideframe. It might be possible to gently twist the brake cylinders so that they level with the body sill. I will have to ask if someone has tried that yet at Rapido and what the results are.About the front windshields, Genesis F's vs. Rapido PA: I think the Genesis F's front windows are installed from the outside, not the inside. As such, they don't need to have a step in the glass to make them flush. But don't quote me on that. I don't own any Genesis F's, so I cannot confirm it. I presume it's a bit tricky to put them in that way. I will ask.With the steam gen. car, the NH actually had 10 of them all told. (I'm surprised that Rapido didn't make any). The NH cars were off the shelf models built new for use with freight electrics hauling passenger trains in winter.
Paul, we don't disagree about the Spectrum cars at all, I agree, once you fix the couplers and adjust/lube the trucks they are very nice. My comment was directed at the swivel couplers on the originals. And while PRR cars, they are all acceptable stand ins for older B&O cars.
Trust me, I know more about jaybee coupler pads than most, 100 or so cars worth.
Western Mayland passenger service was mostly all day coach trains, with mail and express. Again the Athearn cars are amazingly close, including length, with a little kit bashing.
The stripped down nature of the Athearn cars makes them easy kit bash and super detail candidates.
Another thought about car length. The New Haven had good reasons for having all long cars, but any complete historical review of passenger equipment shows wide ranges in car lengths. It is amazing how many cars were only 75' to 78' long, even early and home built smooth side equipment. So, come on, once you add some underbody detail, the Athearn heavyweights have their place, and while the window arrangements are generic, the Athearn and ConCor streamliners are OK for a lot of those earlier cars. SP daylight cars are prime example of streamlined cars that were not 85' long.
As do the MDC Harriman cars.
They are only short by a few scale feet, not 13'.
C&O cars, the Spectrum George Washington set was pretty close, streamlined stuff from Walthers has been pretty close, not perfect, still pieces missing. I went generic with C&O and called it done.
A thought or two on modeling style. I get the prototype thing, I like my C&O, B&O and WM stuff correct when available/practical, I have Spring Mills Depot wagon top hoppers and cabooses, Fox Valley and F&C wagon top box cars, etc, agreed, no expense spared.
But when it comes to the layout, I have never been able to get into the idea of trying to accurately model real places or only model the railroad right of way. I like the old fashioned idea of modeling the larger scene and non railroad features.
And I like rail fan running as much as actual operating sessions, so my layouts have always been designed for both display running and prototype operations. I like believably long trains, and I really like the idea of modeling only one "place", with less compression, and watching the trains come and go, rather than trying to model both "ends" of a line.
I don't mind a little fiction in the story the layout tells, it just needs to be good fiction.....
Paul--
Other people have commented on the seeming lack of detail around the front draft gear on Rapido's model. It does appear to look a bit unfinished. Overland at least got the front draft gear doors on some of their versions to look pretty good though it is possible some were not quite correct.
Likewise, a number of people have commented that the front windows just do not look right on Rapido's model. If it's supposed to look angry, which I could sorta agree with, then it seems to look too angry. A comparison of prototype photos which seem to mostly be 3/4 view seems to look different from the model. Something just does not look right, and there seem to be a number of folks who agree with that statement.
Since the "NKP" PA is being reconstructed from a very heavily damaged unit, with the better unit (at least cosmetically) having gone to the Smithsonian, how do we know that the window contours on the NKP unit (if it was 3D scanned) are correct?
Also--stainless side panels should be plated and not painted. If painted they likely will not look like the high sheen flat stainless panels the real ones had. There should be noticeable contrast between aluminum painted and stainless areas. (Again, during rebuilding D&H even obtained brand new stainless panels from the OEM manufacturer who was still in business at that time according to the PA4 locomotive book). Pity for the Smithsonian ATSF unit the manufacturer is now long gone. Whether or not the roofs were stainless some of us could never figure out. Obviously in later years, some units had the roofs painted aluminum, but prototype photos don't always seem to agree with that.