Rest in pieces
And the distinctive curved molding is missing.
richhotrain gmpullman Rest in peace: The end for a Santa Fe Alco PA-1 by Mike Sosalla, on Flickr Regards, Ed Now, that is one good looking PA locomotive. Rich
gmpullman Rest in peace: The end for a Santa Fe Alco PA-1 by Mike Sosalla, on Flickr Regards, Ed
Rest in peace:
The end for a Santa Fe Alco PA-1 by Mike Sosalla, on Flickr
Regards, Ed
Now, that is one good looking PA locomotive.
Rich
Looking at the photo it appears that the side of the window frame is 0.25 inches too wide.
Alton Junction
Bayway Terminal If a Santa Fe PA is announced by Divison Point in Brass i will not hesitate to place a pre order...
If a Santa Fe PA is announced by Divison Point in Brass i will not hesitate to place a pre order...
DP will make the Santa Fe version. Brasstrains accepts reservations for them (see items 14 and 15):
https://www.brasstrains.com/NewBrass/Trains/Projects/1645/Alco-PA-Passenger-Locomotives?showsold=False
If I remember correctly, DP will produce the early Santa Fe version, without hood grab irons or antenna and with just two single horns.
If a Santa Fe PA is announced by Divison Point in Brass i will not hesitate to place a pre order, right now DP has announced PA's 1/2 & PB's alike in SP Daylight and "Blood Nose" paint versions. I really had my hopes up for the Rapido PA's but after readng all the negative reports on previous production model problems and continned delivery delays i will most likely take a pass and move on to ordering a Brass PA at some point. Bayway Terminal NJ
I'm sure Rapido has its reasons for choosing the finish that it did, but there are still some models being made with metal finishes. Here are links to two recent models with plating:
https://www.walthers.com/alco-pa-standard-dc-delaware-hudson-18-passenger-blue-yellow-silver
https://www.walthers.com/85-budd-big-dome-bar-lounge-lighted-santa-fe-real-metal-finish-with-decals
Texas Zephyr Paul3 What else is missing from the Rapido model's pilot compared to the real ATSF unit? Not from the pilot, but do you know when Santa Fe used the two headlamps side-side in the bottom housing not up-down in the top? I am guessing the Rapido configuration is late and the Santa Fe picture show earlier? I know the original #51 had a single lamp in both housings, and I know in 1964 there is a famous photo that has the lower light in the upper housing as red and the single light in the lower housing. Is it possible Rapido could make these "configurable" by the purchaser? But neither do I want a $1000 model product.
Paul3 What else is missing from the Rapido model's pilot compared to the real ATSF unit?
Not from the pilot, but do you know when Santa Fe used the two headlamps side-side in the bottom housing not up-down in the top? I am guessing the Rapido configuration is late and the Santa Fe picture show earlier? I know the original #51 had a single lamp in both housings, and I know in 1964 there is a famous photo that has the lower light in the upper housing as red and the single light in the lower housing.
Is it possible Rapido could make these "configurable" by the purchaser?
But neither do I want a $1000 model product.
The Rapido Santa Fe PA-1 is a later version (starting in the second half of the fifties), with the antenna, five-chime horn and grabs on the hood and above the windscreen. Looking at pics of this version in railpictures.net, all of them have the single headlight in the lower position and the double lamps on top.
https://www.railpictures.net/photo/532889/
The double lamps on top were a Mars light which would rotate during operation and sometimes stop in a non-vertical position.
https://www.railpictures.net/photo/390797/
Of the upper double lights, one was always white and the other red. I do not think that this is reproduced correctly in the Rapido model. To the best of my knowledge, the only manufacturer which models red/white double lights is Athearn Genesis. Still, even they get the function of the red light wrong and use it as rear light as in a car, while in the prototype is was used only as an emergency signal. However, this can be easily corrected by the user, especially in DCC.
obermeyern Paul, I've found a nose down image of a Mopac PA-1 and compared it to the photo posted of the ATSF model. I circled areas I feel are not consistent with the model when compared to the prototype. Also, I agree that the thick "glass" of the window compounds the shape/size issues. Also, an unpainted model may show the detail better in the comparisons and the perceived issues are not actually issues. My observations: comparison1 by obermeyern, on Flickr The green circle highlights the window side post. On the model the side post appears thinner and cut/rounded away giving the impression the window is wider. On the prototype the top sheet or "brow" of the cab curves down the side, but the post still appears thicker on the prototype. The purple circle highlights the "angry brow" on the prototype appears not as angry as the model. The model appears to be more curved in this location. The pink circle illustrates the model's top outside corner appears to be thinner and closer to the roof sheet as compared to the prototype. It would be interesting if the model "glass" had a gasket applied or the outside edge of the "glass" painted black if the perceived errors would not be as noticeable? comparison by obermeyern, on Flickr Another topic that was discussed is the pilot - the issue I see is that the draft gear could be improved from an obvious model coupler box to something more prototypical. High level underbody detail, but same coupler box/draft gear as a 1990s model. Nate
Paul,
I've found a nose down image of a Mopac PA-1 and compared it to the photo posted of the ATSF model. I circled areas I feel are not consistent with the model when compared to the prototype. Also, I agree that the thick "glass" of the window compounds the shape/size issues. Also, an unpainted model may show the detail better in the comparisons and the perceived issues are not actually issues.
My observations:
comparison1 by obermeyern, on Flickr
The green circle highlights the window side post. On the model the side post appears thinner and cut/rounded away giving the impression the window is wider. On the prototype the top sheet or "brow" of the cab curves down the side, but the post still appears thicker on the prototype.
The purple circle highlights the "angry brow" on the prototype appears not as angry as the model. The model appears to be more curved in this location.
The pink circle illustrates the model's top outside corner appears to be thinner and closer to the roof sheet as compared to the prototype.
It would be interesting if the model "glass" had a gasket applied or the outside edge of the "glass" painted black if the perceived errors would not be as noticeable?
comparison by obermeyern, on Flickr
Another topic that was discussed is the pilot - the issue I see is that the draft gear could be improved from an obvious model coupler box to something more prototypical. High level underbody detail, but same coupler box/draft gear as a 1990s model.
Nate
I know nothing about PA's, but the differences in the two locomotives pictured, to me, comes down to the width of the posts all around the windshield. The blue ones are fatter. Now, that white paint along the top of the red one makes the brow look narrow to me....if the white paint was red that carried the same color up through the brow, like the blue paint does, the red brow would look taller.
Also, the red one seems to have a flatter and more angled curve to the windshields from about the wipers to the center post. It makes the eyes look squintier and angrier than the blue, which has more of the raised eye brow look all across the top, IMO.
And of course, the thickness of the glass on the model is just too thick, a function of production realities that we have to live with, IMO.
Edit: the angles of the pictures are slightly different. The blue pic is looking down on the loco more than the red one. If they were the same, the blue brow may in fact look a bit shorter than it does and better match the red one.
- Douglas
PRR8259 Hey Nate-- Very nice work. I have to agree with your conclusions. Also, the center post on the prototype appears to be a little bit wider than the model. Thank you for documenting and articulating what some others of us thought we were seeing. John
Hey Nate--
Very nice work. I have to agree with your conclusions. Also, the center post on the prototype appears to be a little bit wider than the model. Thank you for documenting and articulating what some others of us thought we were seeing.
John
You know Nate is comparing one of many PA-1's which were not built to exacting standards so there were differences between units due to the semi-hand built nature of the early diesels. And you are comparing it with a scan from a rebuilt wreck that had rolled over and was heavily damaged. Of course the scanned unit will be correct every time the dies are used to make another body.
Rick Jesionowski
Rule 1: This is my railroad.
Rule 2: I make the rules.
Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!
Paul3What else is missing from the Rapido model's pilot compared to the real ATSF unit?
obermeyernI've found a nose down image of a Mopac PA-1 and compared it to the photo posted of the ATSF model. I circled areas I feel are not consistent with the model when compared to the prototype.
Great comparisson work Nate. Your eye for detail is much better than mine.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Thanks for that, Rick . I knew Lewis was a user of some industrial gases as they bought trailer loads of hydrogen from the GE plant I was employed in (Euclid). NASA had a few of their own tube trailers and sometimes used some of our GE ones as well.
Here are some Linde trailers we were filling toward the end of production:
GE Shutdown Saturday 109 by Edmund, on Flickr
gmpullman Paul3 I'd be up for helium cars because they operated to NAS South Weymouth (Mass.) into at least 1957 to the blimp squadron there. But how big a seller do you think they'd be? I wonder if any made their way to the Cleveland area NASA Lewis Research center. Either way I'm sure they have made their way across eastern states on their route from, mostly Texas and Oklahoma IIRC. https://www.amarillorailmuseum.com/helium-car-history Regards, Ed
Paul3 I'd be up for helium cars because they operated to NAS South Weymouth (Mass.) into at least 1957 to the blimp squadron there. But how big a seller do you think they'd be?
I wonder if any made their way to the Cleveland area NASA Lewis Research center. Either way I'm sure they have made their way across eastern states on their route from, mostly Texas and Oklahoma IIRC.
https://www.amarillorailmuseum.com/helium-car-history
Yes, Ed the Helium Tank Cars made it to Cleveland, The Lewis Research Center had a two car spur at 130th and Brook Park where the cars were spotted, their were connections at track level and a shed where the gas was pumped from the cars to Tank Trucks that delivered the gas to Lewis. One of my club members was a conductor in that area and remembers spotting the cars, I don't know if he has any photos or not.
gmpullman,Over and over again, we made sure that the pans would arrive deactivated because of damaged pan fears.FYI: all the EP-5 pans can be programmed to go up to a certain height and stop. Rapido has set the CV setting so that they should clear an NMRA clearance gauge (about 3" above the rails). So if you can run double stacks on your layout, you should be able run an EP-5 with the pan up without hitting anything.As I said to Overmod, the operating pan delayed the EP-5 for a couple years at least.
Overmod,I don't think pushrods, bell cranks or choke cables would work to make operating pans on an E44. The mechanism in the EP-5 is quite clever. It makes the pan go up and down and yet still allows for vertical movement of the pan to the point where it can fold flat to to the roof. Putting in any kind of mechanical connection would probably prevent that free movement...which would not be good.Not to mention that the 2nd pan's motor would interfere with the 1st pan's mechanical connection.Any kind of complicated arrangement would almost certainly delay production. The EP-5 took years longer to release because of the operating pans. Inventing something even more complicated than the EP-5 mechanism would probably mean it would get canceled.The way I see it, the only way to make operating pans on an E44 is to not have a see-through cab interior. Oh, sure, the engineer's and fireman's seats would be there and all, but imagine the walls of the hoods going straight through the cab interior (just like the old MDC RS-3). That's what it would take.
Paul3There's no way they could be made to operate up and down like the EP-5 because the pan motor mechanisms would fill the cab interior. Would you be okay with that?
Yes!
I'm sure glad the "automatic" pans arrive disabled on the EP-5 Jets. The last thing I would want to do is mistakenly press the "pan raise" function button while passing under a signal bridge or overpass!
Sometimes that gimmicky stuff edges too close to "toy train" features. Depleting coal, finnicky operating couplers, "smoke" billowing out the whistle when it is blown... you get the idea.
The pans on the Broadway GG1s and P5a look just fine and they simply clip over a little stud to keep them lowered. Works for me. How long was the EP5 delayed by the motorized pan thing?
Paul3I'd be up for helium cars because they operated to NAS South Weymouth (Mass.) into at least 1957 to the blimp squadron there. But how big a seller do you think they'd be?
I mentioned the Pressure Differential car as an example of a "not too common" example. I bought a few since I model parts of the New York Central and they had a big Flexi-Flo terminal near me.
Paul3BTW, make another suggestion on the Rapido website. AFAIK, there's no cap.
Thanks, I'll do that.
Overmod Surely the pans could be motored with pushrods and bell cranks, or some form of Bowden cable?
Surely the pans could be motored with pushrods and bell cranks, or some form of Bowden cable?
Marklin had a first attempt at working (raising/lowering) pantographs in 2003. Their mechanism could work if the space directly below the pantograph is restricted.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bd9Ky_mqrc
gmpullman,Heh. "Over $10 each!" That's right up there with one of my fellow club members who used to buy new trains at the hobby shop, take them to the club, and put them in his locker or on the layout. After a year or so, he'd bring them home. His wife would say, "Are those new?" And he'd reply, "No, honey, I've had them for over a year." Hey, he was being honest!E44s? I dunno. [looks at E44 pictures] I mean, there is a problem: the pantographs are right over the cab. There's no way they could be made to operate up and down like the EP-5 because the pan motor mechanisms would fill the cab interior. Would you be okay with that? Rapido has kinda raised expectations with the EP-5 pans. It's one thing to do that with a carbody unit, but with the hood-type electrics like the E44, it's probably not possible to do operating pans. That being said, I'd like to see one even if I don't want any. I'll bring it up if anyone asks for ideas.I'd be up for helium cars because they operated to NAS South Weymouth (Mass.) into at least 1957 to the blimp squadron there. But how big a seller do you think they'd be? Jason loves fleet cars like the AutoFlood III hoppers. You know, the type of car someone wants a trainload of. Oddball freight cars? Well, maybe. I guess it depends.BTW, make another suggestion on the Rapido website. AFAIK, there's no cap. Just be very careful on spelling and using the right nomenclature. You can imagine how many hundreds of entries they get. They compile the suggested list of products to judge popularity, but E44 and E-44 would sort differently because of the hyphen.
Paul3gmpullman, Oh boy, do I really want to add up all my Rapido products?
Well, I know what you mean there. I left out the rolling stock but I have enough 8600 coaches plus more than a dozen other Budd domes and such.
Diner_patrons7 by Edmund, on Flickr
My wife noticed the string of 36 PRR GLa hoppers and pointed out that they look pretty new. Good eye, I say. And do you know those things are over TEN dollars apice! Wow, she says. (how MUCH over $10 I neglected to say — knowing that string of hoppers was a tad north of $1250!) She smiled and repeated "Ten Dollars each" knowing full well what I paid for them.
All for fun!
Hey, as long as I have the ear of a Rapido "insider" how about dropping a hint for the much desired PRR E44 GE electric?
Also, why not some Helium cars? Afterall they did the PD cars which were sort of a specialty. I think the helium cars would be a hit. Somehow the AHM ones are looking a little dated.
4368003 by John W. Barriger III National Railroad Library, on Flickr
I sent a "suggestion" form in but it was during the web transition and I'm not sure they got it.
John (PRR8259),One other issue with the front cab windows might be that the dashboard of the PA cab is visible from the front of the cab when looking down. And since it's painted a very light gray, it shows up rather well in flash photography. It appears in that NKP shot in the Rapido newsletter.I think the truck air cylinders will be able to be bent level by the consumer if desired but I won't know 'til I try mine when I get them. I doubt that Rapido is going to have all new sideframes made for this issue but I've been wrong before.gmpullman,Oh boy, do I really want to add up all my Rapido products? I think I might have a problem...7 x FL9 (5 NH, 1 ConnDOT, 1 Maine Eastern)4 x EP-5 (NH)2 x RS-11 (NH)2 x FB-2 (NH)4 x RDC-1 (NH)2 x RDC-2 (NH)3 x RDC-3 (NH)2 x SW1200 (NH)1 x M-420 (CN)1 x F40PH (MBTA)13 x 8600 Coach (NH)3 x Parlor-Lounge (NH)8 x Parlor (NH)10 x Diner (NH)14 x Osgood Bradley Coach (12 NH, 2 B&M)8 x Comet Coach (MBTA)6 x GLa Hopper (2 NYO&W, 1 Berwick, 2 PRR, 1 Westmoreland) w/ loads12 x F30 Flatcar (6 PRR, 6 TTX)16 x X31 Boxcar (PRR)3 x Boxes of 50 Wheelsets= 122 Total items...plus a few Rapido T-shirts and a coffee mug.Good grief! I got my first Rapido model in 2010 (the Osgood Bradley coaches). Hard to believe it's been 12 years now.Now, to be fair, all my Rapido freight cars, MBTA stuff, and EP-5s all arrived after I started working for Rapido (yes, we get a discount). Others were gifts from friends or family, and some were barter for helping out Rapido before I officially started working for them. Some were discounted because of my NHRHTA membership and volunteering for that organization. So I haven't spent as much money as it looks like. I've just never sat back and counted them all before. Yikes. They still keep making NH models and I still keep getting them. On the way are NH PA-1s, NH 35' trailers, NH H16-44s, NH U25Bs, and NH FA-1/FB-1s. And I'm probably going to pick up more trailers in non-New Haven paint schemes plus some X-3 tanks. I might get a UAC TurboTrain in demo colors (hey, it ran on the NH!), maybe an P&W M-420Rs or two. But no buses! I gotta draw the line somewhere...
Here is my Rapido family portrait with a few more passenger cars out of the frame.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
SeeYou190I am weak with this topic...
Me too...my Rapido acquisitions are comprised of this reefer...
....an undecorated kit which I bought at a nearby hobbyshop (now long gone), at a fairly decent price...I think that it was discounted because most folks were more interested in r-t-r.Later, just prior to the shop's closing, I picked-up four of Rapido's motor-driven turnout controls, at a very good price. Here's one of them...
...and another...
...and these two...
...which I wired to a single switch on the layout's fascia. A flip of the switch moves both sets of points either as through tracks, or as a crossover.I did take a look at their doublesheathed boxcars, but the ones I had from Accurail were almost as nice, and after adding a few details, pretty much as nice as the Rapido ones, but much more affordable.
Were I modelling a more modern era, I might have picked-up some of their diesels (especially the SW1200RS, versions, probably my favourite EMD/GMD prototypes), but the PA would not be on my buyers list - I wasn't a big fan of the prototype, but was much more enamoured of FAs and FBs...I have 7 or 8 of them from Model Power...but also not much use on a late '30s-era layout.
Wayne
I have one B36-7 Conrail unit that is beautiful.
I'm pondering the C30-7, would ponder the U25B if it was in yellowbonnet, and the jury for me is out on getting a PA-1. It was one of the engines I always loved and wanted...but I don't quite know what I'd do with it if I had one right now, and might even lean toward a Rio Grande version.
Rapido freight cars: I have two of the SP B-100-40 (riding on Athearn trucks) and one of the early version Trailer Train flat cars (riding on Moloco Code 88 wheelsets). I do not like Rapido's wheelsets and simply replace them or the entire truck.
The tank cars were very neat, but not really a great fit on ATSF for me, and kinda the same with the covered hoppers--not too many made it to the Southwest. I do have 8 of the late paint scheme (Circle Cross herald) ATSF mechanical reefers on pre-order which is a significant purchase for me. The Rapido gondolas are pretty nice, but I've opted for the Tangent PRR/PC/CR G43 series gons which also went everywhere for my not-home-road gons.
richhotrain SeeYou190 My entire Rapido roster is an RDC, three boxcars, and a mather meat reefer. I have no Rapido locomotives, but I do have 15 passenger cars because Rapido did cover a lot of my railroads with their Super Continental line. I have 5 each of Erie, GTW, and C&EI. I would have had 5 more - - Monon coaches, but I procrastinated a bit too long and now they are not to be found anywhere. Rich
SeeYou190 My entire Rapido roster is an RDC, three boxcars, and a mather meat reefer.
My entire Rapido roster is an RDC, three boxcars, and a mather meat reefer.
I have no Rapido locomotives, but I do have 15 passenger cars because Rapido did cover a lot of my railroads with their Super Continental line. I have 5 each of Erie, GTW, and C&EI. I would have had 5 more - - Monon coaches, but I procrastinated a bit too long and now they are not to be found anywhere.
I'm really weak here, 3 piggyback flat car kits..... It was hard to justify any more than that, I already have more than 100 piggyback flat cars.....
Sheldon