Douglas--
Your original post is absolutely correct. Beginning last summer, I stopped selling anything on Ebay, and narrowly missed last year's limit of $1200 in sales for some states to generate the 1099 (didn't know if that would apply to me or not at the time.)
It has most certainly affected my buying and my selling. Who keeps all receipts to be able to prove the cost basis? Certainly not me.
Now my local store is selling the lightly used but basically mint trains on consignment to walk-in store customers. We cannot ask as much money for them, but they take care of everything. All I have to do is drop the models off. The downside is I'm getting less money than in the past, and it mostly goes to store credit toward my pre-ordered models. Also, there are more than 16 unsold locos there right now tying up some nice cash.
I have had to take a very hard look at my roster, what I want to keep, and what I might want to buy in the future. I'm only keeping those items that I just absolutely fall in love with, as everything these days is expensive, it seems.
One could reasonably argue that in the past I was a bit irresponsible with my money. Now I just cannot be. It is much more difficult to sell anything I don't need. That means I will only buy it if I absolutely positively have to have it, and the only items that fit that category right now are a handful of ATSF Kodachrome paint scheme units that are really nice models. Everything else I already have or already have on pre-order.
I'm down to 3 diesels that will most likely stay, and two of those are in the mail to me and not here yet.
John
BEAUSABRE When I was a grad student, I proctored some undergrad tests as a favor to friends and got a small amount (something like $10) as beer money. After I had graduated, I got a letter from the town demanding the taxes I owed them. It amounted to, I am not making this up, seventeen cents. I shudder to think of how much taxpayer money was spent (even postage must have more) to collect that munificent sum.
When I was a grad student, I proctored some undergrad tests as a favor to friends and got a small amount (something like $10) as beer money. After I had graduated, I got a letter from the town demanding the taxes I owed them. It amounted to, I am not making this up, seventeen cents. I shudder to think of how much taxpayer money was spent (even postage must have more) to collect that munificent sum.
Your story reminds me of when I graduated college and started real work and had to do my taxes the following year. So due to some changes in the law where I went to college, I now had to pay state taxes on the income I made working the dining hall as part of my financial aid package. So my tax peparer tells me that I owe Indiana $5. OK, I thought it would be worse. Then he tells me, I owe him an extra $100 because he had to prepare a separate form for the Indiana state taxes.
My mom was an antique dealer on the side, had to have a dealer tax ID number (renewable annually, for a fee), had to charge sales tax when she did a show and send the amount to the government at the end of the year. What a pain in the derriere. She had to keep a record of each and every sale she made, no matter how small.
Here is a pretty good commentary on this latest tax folly.
https://www.journalofaccountancy.com/news/2022/mar/new-lower-form-1099-k-threshold-cautions-criticisms.html
Rich
Alton Junction
For me, the issue is not the tax return prep, its that if you go over the $600 for the year (I hit that threshold in 2 months), Ebay requires your social security number on the account because they have to send out the 1099. If you stay below $600, you can operate the account disclosing only the last 4 digits, which is enough info to do the managed payments thing with a bank account.
They cut you off from selling once you hit the 600 and dont supply the full soc. They really have no choice given the current threshold.
The low threshold matters to me, because I don't want to disclose my personal soc number....and if I recall correctly, a person who already has a soc number cannot also have a tax ID number, only a business.
- Douglas
It doesn't surprise me at all. For years the state department of revenue would send agents to train shows on the weekends looking for people not collecting taxes on sales. $600 is not much. One brass locomotive and your over. Maybe items will be less expensive to try to stay below.
Pete.
This reminds me of issues of venmo under this new policy where if you checked a category and used your account for selling a few items and also used it for a whole lot of dinners and splitting costs with friends personally, you now have to clarify with the IRS what is actually a business transaction. You may have sold $100 in train stuff but was given hundreds maybe thousands in Venmo cash cause you were nice to put dinner on your credit card, your friends paid you back, and now you need to clarify to the IRS that 10% of that was only business income.
richhotrain ... I could care less if I get a 1099-K from eBay. I very seriously doubt that the IRS is going to call me in for an audit when I fail to do anything about the 1099-K on my annual tax return.... Rich
Tempest in a teapot for sure. Let the IRS require all of the 1099-Ks that it wants sent out. It will regret it with all that additional paper showing up on its doorstep. I have sold a lot of used MR stuff and never close to a profit on anything. Everything that I sell, and the quality is good, is still sold at a loss.
In this instance, it is eBay whining because it is more work for them. I could care less if I get a 1099-K from eBay. I very seriously doubt that the IRS is going to call me in for an audit when I fail to do anything about the 1099-K on my annual tax return.
As for eBay, this is directed at their power sellers and retailers, not Joe Blow. I think that it is time for eBay to divide itself into two entities, one for selling new items and one for selling used items.
What really irks me about eBay is a very recent development where they now report Views on listings on a rolling 30-day basis. I have an item up for sale where my Views suddenly dropped in half and the listing is less than 18 days old. If this change accomplishes anything, it will further discourage sellers who are now led to believe that no one is looking at their listings. Idiots!
gmpullmanTempest in a teapot.
I hope so.
I read through the FAQ page you linked to, and realized that I know nothing about any of these payment apps or third party settlements.
The number of model trains auctions on eBay seems to have been steadily declining since shipping costs skyrocketed. I hope it does not drop more, but I certainly buy a lot less than I used to.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
SeeYou190If this change results in fewer sellers, that lowers the liklihood I will find anything to buy.
It is only a reporting threshold for a 1099K to be generated. It mainly stems from "third party settlement" transactions i.e. PayPal, Venmo, Cashapp, etc.
It has no bearing on any "profit" from the sale of used trains.
https://www.irs.gov/payments/general-faqs-on-new-payment-card-reporting-requirements
Tempest in a teapot.
Cheers, Ed
I hope we all can obey the rules of the forum so this topic can be discussed without being locked or deleted.
Have respect for our hosts.
DoughlessI believe that modelers being able to sell trains makes this hobby more enjoyable and expands interest.
More importantly, modelers need to be able to buy trains to enjoy the hobby.
If like me, the trains they want are out-of-production, or hard to locate, eBay is a necessary device. If this change results in fewer sellers, that lowers the liklihood I will find anything to buy.
I don't want to violate forum rules about selling trains or advocating politics, but I received a message in my Ebay account about potential changes to the tax consequences of selling our trains individually through Ebay or other means.
Apparently, there is a proposal to raise the threshold from the current $600 burden.
As background:
Companies like eBay are required to report sales to the IRS using a tax form called a 1099-K. Until recently, you would only get a 1099-K if you sold over $20,000, or more than 200 items. Starting with 2022, new legislation has lowered that threshold to just $600, even if that was from a single sale all year. Where it gets complicated is you’ll get this form even if you don’t owe anything, because not all sales are taxable–for example, if you sell something for less than you paid for it.
Imagine selling an old bike for $800 that cost you $1,500 a few years ago. Since you didn’t make a profit, the IRS doesn’t consider that taxable income. But under this new law, you’re still going to get a 1099-K. And now you’ll have to prove to the IRS that you don’t actually owe any taxes on that sale, which makes for complicated accounting work.
Recently, new legislation was introduced in Congress to raise the threshold and limit the number of sellers getting these unnecessary forms.
The message goes on to provide links for gathering support and expressing a voice for supporting the new proposal. I did not share the links since I do not want to be accused of advocating a political agenda. So if you're interested, you may want to Google to see what suits you.
I'm interested in at least following this possible development, since I believe that modelers being able to sell trains makes this hobby more enjoyable and expands interest. In the past, I have sold off older stuff to be able to buy some of the new products manufacturers are introducing. This year, I have been less interested in purchasing new items or even browsing retail and producers websites since the funds would have to come from general household funds and not train sales proceeds. I didn't expect that not having an easy way to sell trains would have such a material impact on how I look at buying, but it does.