I was curious about what drives the price on used locomotives and rolling stock beyond the quality of the model.
Here are some examples of what I am getting at. Take the Atlas S4 of which there have been many runs and I would say thousands sold. Which are likely to bring a higher price - those with common road names or those with the obscure roads? How does repainting (assuming it was done well) impact the price? Finally, what about weathering?
Now consider a locomotive that did not have as many produced as the S4. How does that impact the value?
Rick
For the most part, it is a crapshoot.
I will limit my comments to eBay where I buy and sell somewhat often.
Repaints and weathering do not increase prices. If anything, they turn away some interested buyers.
A lot depends upon the time of the year, the road name, the type of locomotive or rolling stock and the number of interested, potential buyers.
The best months to sell are December through March, and the least productive months are May through October.
Obscure road names sell slowly and the most well known road names take a little more time than the less well known road names. Road names such as NYC, PRR, ATSF and UP for example are popular, but eBay is flooded with those road names.
Freight diesels sell better than passenger diesels or switchers. Steam locomotives still sell quite well.
In terms of rolling stock, cabooses linger on eBay forever. Boxcars flood the eBay listings, as do tank cars. Hoppers, gondolas, reefers and covered hopper sell well.
One other issue is brand. Atlas is a good name and sells well. Athearn is popular as well. Bachmann sells well especially the Spectrum line. Broadway Limited Imports do well with certains lines but not so well with other lines. Then, there is Walthers, Walthers Proto, the old Life Like Proto 2000, etc.
Of course, price is king. If it is overpriced, it lingers. If it is underpriced, usually something is wrong with the item. Auctions sell faster than Buy It Now, but usually return a lower price than Buy It Now, except where two bidders compete and jack up the price. Seller feedback rating is crucial.
This is all based upon my experience. If this thread goes on long enough, you will get one hundred different opinions.
As I say, it is all a crapshoot.
Rich
Alton Junction
Thanks. I had a recent post about a re-paint shortcut. I originally considered using one of my ATSF Atlas S4s for the project, but I thought that down the road that locomotive would sell better as ATSF than USS. I also had a blue box switcher that has been sitting around unused for years that I considered putting a decoder in and repainting, but I wanted a better running unit.
I have so many projects in the job jar that can take precidence over weathering locomitives and rolling stock that I will put that off until I am in need of a project for something to do.
Rick,
Using eBay as an example: It's whatever the seller wants to sell it for and what price the buyer is willing to buy it at. It doesn't matter how old/rare/vintage the item is....or if it's NIB, used, or non-running...a seller will choose a price that they think the item is worth or what they would like to get for it.
Availablity, rarity, name, numbers of runs, condition, etc. can have an impact on value but not always. I've seen two "new" essentially identical items posted on eBay - the SAME day! - asking less than MSRP and twice MSRP. I've seen beautiful brass engines being sold for a song and heavily tarnished ones (some with missing pieces) go for well-over what they are worth.
Some folks will pay out the nose for a good weathering job while others want the paint on their locomotive or rolling stock pristine or undecorated - as in the case of some brass. It's difficult to predict what the impact will be on an item's value in a buyer's eye. I do think a bad weather job or paint job will definitely detract from the value of an item.
If why you are asking the question is for determining resale value at a later time then the determining factor is "when". If you are talking about the near future (<5 yrs) then you may want to be conservative on what you do (or not do) to your locomotives and rolling stock. If your talking 20-30 years (or longer) then I'd say "love 'em & run 'em" and don't overthink their value. The market for used MRRing in 20-30 years could be complete bust. Enjoy them now how you'd like them to be...
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
tstage If why you are asking the question is for determining resale value at a later time then the determining factor is "when". If you are talking about the near future (<5 yrs) then you may want to be conservative on what you do (or not do) to your locomotives and rolling stock. If your talking 20-30 years (or longer) then I'd say "love 'em & run 'em" and don't overthink their value. The market for used MRRing in 20-30 years could be complete bust. Enjoy them now how you'd like them to be... Tom
It is all supply and demand at its finist. Bought a bag of stuff at a train show and a peice was thrown in, that peice was sold on e-bay for $35 and I have paid for stuff that was well done but would not sell, like no buyers. Time has a lot to do with it and not so much wealth but attitude. Knew a guy of means who would not budge on price on a train item but turn arround and buy lunch for the group which cost him way more.
Ever watch Pawn Stars? I have seen plenty of times when someone found something old and polished it up which ruined the value.
I want to avoid stupid mistakes like that. Sounds like that isn't an issue here.
richhotrainFor the most part, it is a crapshoot.
I agree, Rich.
When I decided to backdate my layout, I offered some locos and rolling stock to other modellers on another forum, and got good responses due to realistic pricing.
I also took a lot of locos and rolling stock to a nearby hobbyshop, each piece with my asking price, and told the store owner that he could raise the price as much as he thought suitable, as he was also entitled to make some money himself.
A week-or-so later, I dropped by to pick up some Kadee couplers, and was surprised to see that all of my offerings had been bought...I was told that they were gone in only a few days.
Most of those items were custom painted and lettered, and the majority of them weathered, too. The store's owner apparently made enough off the sale to share some of his earnings with me, both of us well-satisfied with the outcome, and based on the quickness of the selling, I'd guess the buyers to be satisfied, too.
In the event of my demise, I've arranged with a couple of longtime friends to pick out a few items for themselves, and then sell the rest at realistic prices, the proceeds going to my survivors.
Due to my decision to backdate my layout to the late '30s, I'm guessing that there'll be less interest in what will be on-offer.
Wayne
doctorwayne In the event of my demise, I've arranged with a couple of longtime friends to pick out a few items for themselves
In the event of my demise, I've arranged with a couple of longtime friends to pick out a few items for themselves
Your Longtime Friend,
Much of it is a 'greater fool' thing where there is no actual guarantee at all that you'll find a greater fool when you want one.
And anyone else who would buy it will likely be cutthroat about paying bottom dollar, like that guy who liked to 'dicker' in Needful Things.
I think even Mr. Fast has said that brass, or even production rarities, aren't "investments" as a sure store of value for your heirs. I was watching with some interest to see how the Hattons strategy in Britain would translate over to the American market... I'm still watching, but haven't seen evidence or discussion that it has meant much.
There have been some examples of induced demand -- that Rapido E unit with the one-off Amtrak scheme, or the Hornby LNER 'hush-hush' high-pressure locomotive. But how long will the perceived value be supported by 'supply and demand'?
Hi,
Just over a year ago I auctioned off most all of my HO items - about 120 or so auctions on Ebay. My locos were Santa Fe with a few Illinois Central. Passenger cars were also Santa fe and Illinois Central. Freight cars were a mix.
The Santa Fe items sold nicely as they were with original boxes, higher quality, and like new. No locos were weathered, nor were passenger cars. Freight cars had weathering on trucks and couplers only.
The biggest positive surprise by far was the 9 Walthers IC streamlined passenger cars (lightweights). The only negative surprise was for the high end car kits - which sold for listing price or not much more. Shouldn't be much of a surprise, for few folks build car kits these days.
Oh, DCC components, vehicles, figures, and turnouts sold well too.
If I were buying, I would be leery of repaints and weathered items - unless done extremely well.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
tstage Rick, Using eBay as an example: It's whatever the seller wants to sell it for and what price the buyer is willing to buy it at. It doesn't matter how old/rare/vintage the item is....or if it's NIB, used, or non-running...a seller will choose a price that they think the item is worth or what they would like to get for it.
I would argue the true value of something is entirely dependent on what a buyer is willing to pay for it. The seller can set an asking price but it doesn't mean a thing if someone isn't willing to pay that price.
I remember our Sunday newspaper had a real estate section with an advice column. One reader had written in lamenting that his house had been on the market for almost a year. He said he couldn't afford to lower his asking price because he needed to get X-amount of dollars out of the sale. The person giving the advice had to tell him that his needs doesn't increase what the buying public is willing to pay for his house. So it is with any commodity. The seller might have an idea what he thinks his item is worth, but if that isn't in line with what a buyer is willing to pay for it, he's not going to get his asking price.
It all comes down to supply and demand. If there is a demand for the item you are selling, you can get a good price for it. On an auction, if you have multiple bidders, you are going to come close to getting true value for what you are selling. Bidders will drive up the price until either there is only one bidder left or time runs out on the auction.
On the other hand, if there is only one person bidding, you won't get more than your original asking price and if that is too high, you won't even get that one bidder.
You can check past sales on similar items to get an idea what your items will sell for, but that is no guarantee you will get those prices. It could be a situation in which only one person was interested in an item and they already bought one.
I've never sold on ebay but I am looking into selling my vintage (1980s) Rivarossi UP steamers. I don't have the original boxes but past sales indicate they might sell in the $150-200 range. Maybe I'll get lucky and they will sell for a little more. Time will tell.
hbgatsf Ever watch Pawn Stars? I have seen plenty of times when someone found something old and polished it up which ruined the value. I want to avoid stupid mistakes like that. Sounds like that isn't an issue here. Rick
I don't think cleaning up an item will hurt the resale value as long as you are careful not to damage it in the process. Weathering or repainting is another matter. If done poorly, it could bring the price down. A lot depends on whether the buyer is a collector or wants the item to run on his layout. Collectors usually want the item to be as close to original condition as possible which means no after market painting or weathering. They also value having the orignal box. On the other hand, someone who wants the item for their layout might appreciate weathering or painting provided it is done well. If it were me, I wouldn't do anything other than to clean an item up and maybe a little lube job to make sure it runs well.
I agree eBay is a crapshoot, but I'm not a seller, just a frequent buyer. Here's a story: I got outbid on an Atlas Classic HO Northern Pacific RS-1 (quality item, not rare) in its original box. It started at around $50 and bid up to $150. It looked brand new but was untested because the seller had no way to test it.
The day after that auction ended, a different seller put up the very same item, the very same product number, in the very same condition, in the original box, for the same starting price of $50, only this one had been tested and ran well in both directions. Basically new old stock. This seller also provided a Make Offer option. So I offered the asking price, but told the seller that if I were him I would decline my offer, because the identical item had sold just a week before for thrice that amount and it wasn't even tested. He declined my offer and thanked me for alerting him. But the days ticked down and no one bid on the locomotive at all. I was gobsmacked, nonplussed and dumbfounded and I felt like a fool. I thought it would seem cruelly smug of me to go in at the last second and bid the asking price after telling him he was going to clean up on that item, so I let it time out. He didn't relist it.
This is a lesson I learned long ago in traffic. Take your right of way when you have it. Don't be "nice" and confuse people by yielding when you shouldn't. It causes fender-benders. Likewise, don't try to do sellers favors on eBay. Everybody's a grownup. I should have made my offer and kept my mouth shut.
-Matt
Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.
crossthedog I agree eBay is a crapshoot, but I'm not a seller, just a frequent buyer. Here's a story: I got outbid on an Atlas Classic HO Northern Pacific RS-1 (quality item, not rare) in its original box. It started at around $50 and bid up to $150. It looked brand new but was untested because the seller had no way to test it. The day after that auction ended, a different seller put up the very same item, the very same product number, in the very same condition, in the original box, for the same starting price of $50, only this one had been tested and ran well in both directions. Basically new old stock. This seller also provided a Make Offer option. So I offered the asking price, but told the seller that if I were him I would decline my offer, because the identical item had sold just a week before for thrice that amount and it wasn't even tested. He declined my offer and thanked me for alerting him. But the days ticked down and no one bid on the locomotive at all. I was gobsmacked, nonplussed and dumbfounded and I felt like a fool. I thought it would seem cruelly smug of me to go in at the last second and bid the asking price after telling him he was going to clean up on that item, so I let it time out. He didn't relist it. This is a lesson I learned long ago in traffic. Take your right of way when you have it. Don't be "nice" and confuse people by yielding when you shouldn't. It causes fender-benders. Likewise, don't try to do sellers favors on eBay. Everybody's a grownup. I should have made my offer and kept my mouth shut. -Matt
Whenever I'm buying or selling anything, I am looking out for my self interest. I leave it up to the other party to look after theirs. If somebody is willing to sell me something for less than I think it's worth, I'm taking it. If somebody is willing to pay me more for something that I think it's worth, I'm taking his money. I learned this lesson through years of investing in the stock market. If a stock is undervalued, buy it. If it is overvalued, sell it. If it is seriously overvalued, sell it short. Think Enron.
Fortunately I didn't listen to the people 25 years ago who told me Amazon was seriously overvalued. I wish I had listened to the people who told me it was undervalued.
John-NYBW crossthedog I agree eBay is a crapshoot, but I'm not a seller, just a frequent buyer. Here's a story: I got outbid on an Atlas Classic HO Northern Pacific RS-1 (quality item, not rare) in its original box. It started at around $50 and bid up to $150. It looked brand new but was untested because the seller had no way to test it. The day after that auction ended, a different seller put up the very same item, the very same product number, in the very same condition, in the original box, for the same starting price of $50, only this one had been tested and ran well in both directions. Basically new old stock. This seller also provided a Make Offer option. So I offered the asking price, but told the seller that if I were him I would decline my offer, because the identical item had sold just a week before for thrice that amount and it wasn't even tested. He declined my offer and thanked me for alerting him. But the days ticked down and no one bid on the locomotive at all. I was gobsmacked, nonplussed and dumbfounded and I felt like a fool. I thought it would seem cruelly smug of me to go in at the last second and bid the asking price after telling him he was going to clean up on that item, so I let it time out. He didn't relist it. This is a lesson I learned long ago in traffic. Take your right of way when you have it. Don't be "nice" and confuse people by yielding when you shouldn't. It causes fender-benders. Likewise, don't try to do sellers favors on eBay. Everybody's a grownup. I should have made my offer and kept my mouth shut. -Matt Whenever I'm buying or selling anything, I am looking out for my self interest. I leave it up to the other party to look after theirs. If somebody is willing to sell me something for less than I think it's worth, I'm taking it. If somebody is willing to pay me more for something that I think it's worth, I'm taking his money. I learned this lesson through years of investing in the stock market. If a stock is undervalued, buy it. If it is overvalued, sell it. If it is seriously overvalued, sell it short. Think Enron. Fortunately I didn't listen to the people 25 years ago who told me Amazon was seriously overvalued. I wish I had listened to the people who told me it was undervalued.
Hello hbgatsf (Rick)--
How did I miss this? Guess I wasn't paying attention. A Santa Fe fan in Harrisburg, PA? There aren't that many of us. I live in Marysville, PA. Maybe pm me or sent me an email johndmock at yahoo dot com Thank you!
Unfortunately on ebay I've learned the hard way that most sellers do not seem to be very interested in whatever "suggestions" I might have, even or especially if something might be wrong with their item description.
I agree that buying off ebay can be a challenge. There are some absolutely wonderful, reasonably honest and trustworthy sellers, and some that are just not, and some that are really trying to make a whole lot of money on each and every item. If in looking at the pictures of an item it seems to me that it was altered in some way, like painting black trucks silver, I will usually pass on that item at any price. I do not trust the guy who is saying he tests items out on his layout to be sure they work before putting them on sale. That really translates into "I am cherry picking the best items for myself and selling you the ones I don't like". His Santa Fe stuff is way overpriced and you can do much better elsewhere.
I must add the following caution: For every allegedly brand new, condition 9 or 10 Santa Fe locomotive that is on ebay, I can usually find the exact same item on sale brand new in box and usually at a MUCH better price at: Hiawatha Hobbies, Lombard Hobby, and Spring Creek Hobbies, or refurbished BLI stuff directly from their website. Or even direct brand new from ScaleTrains. There are dealers taking new Tangent, ScaleTrains, etc. items and just marking them up above MSRP on ebay, I guess because enough people don't shop hard enough and buy from them. I've been able to turn around and order directly brand new from ST and save money over ebay pricing.
Many but not all of the remaining vendors on ebay are price gouging for those new Santa Fe locomotives.
Just so I'm being clear, I've been seeing at recent train shows that there are also local "dealers" who are cherry picking items for themselves and then putting out the rejects for sale. I got bitten with an Atlas engine that doesn't run very well at all (has a gear problem), and I've seen allegedly brand new BLI stuff that was clearly taken out of the box, played with, grills mishandled and dented, and then put back into the box for sale to john q. public. The other dealers' BLI engines were all in perfect condition and not at all like his (same dealer who sold me the Atlas Gold Santa Fe RSD5)...Also said "dealer" admitted during casual conversation that that was what he was doing...screening items for his personal collection.
If I sell it as mint it is every bit as good as brand new (sometimes better than brand new as I fix minor items), and I call out any defects in my ebay listings. I would rather get less money when I sell something than to mis-represent something. I cannot sleep at night if I would cheat anyone.
John
PRR8259 Hello hbgatsf (Rick)-- How did I miss this? Guess I wasn't paying attention. A Santa Fe fan in Harrisburg, PA? There aren't that many of us. I live in Marysville, PA. Maybe pm me or sent me an email johndmock at yahoo dot com Thank you!
Email sent.
rrebell John-NYBW Whenever I'm buying or selling anything, I am looking out for my self interest. I leave it up to the other party to look after theirs. If somebody is willing to sell me something for less than I think it's worth, I'm taking it. If somebody is willing to pay me more for something that I think it's worth, I'm taking his money. I learned this lesson through years of investing in the stock market. If a stock is undervalued, buy it. If it is overvalued, sell it. If it is seriously overvalued, sell it short. Think Enron. Fortunately I didn't listen to the people 25 years ago who told me Amazon was seriously overvalued. I wish I had listened to the people who told me it was undervalued. As far as the markets go, you have to fiqure in your long time costs. Any time you don't make a return on investment you are losing money if you could have made a return.
John-NYBW Whenever I'm buying or selling anything, I am looking out for my self interest. I leave it up to the other party to look after theirs. If somebody is willing to sell me something for less than I think it's worth, I'm taking it. If somebody is willing to pay me more for something that I think it's worth, I'm taking his money. I learned this lesson through years of investing in the stock market. If a stock is undervalued, buy it. If it is overvalued, sell it. If it is seriously overvalued, sell it short. Think Enron. Fortunately I didn't listen to the people 25 years ago who told me Amazon was seriously overvalued. I wish I had listened to the people who told me it was undervalued.
As far as the markets go, you have to fiqure in your long time costs. Any time you don't make a return on investment you are losing money if you could have made a return.
The true return on any investment is what you earn over inflation. If you earned 5% on your money this past year, you lost money. A lot of people look on their house as an investment but as an investment, it performs rather poorly. On average, a house only appreciates on average about 2% per year which is lower than inflation. Of course it goes in cycles where it outperforms inflation but in the long run, a house is going to be worth less in actual dollars than what you paid for it and that doesn't even figure in the interest you paid on the mortage, taxes, insurance, and how much you spent to maintain it. My first house cost $36,000 and I sold it 22 years later for $80,000. I didn't make any money on it. The cost of living more than doubled in the time. My inflation calculator tells me if the value had just kept up with inflation, it would have been worth $87,768. I actually lost $7,768 on the sale. Factor in the interest payments, taxes, insurance and what I spent in upkeep, that is what I paid for shelter for 22 years. So I didn't make money on my house but I did get something of value for my money.
I don't, and never have, consider the trains as an investment. Same with the boats and fishing gear.
Having said that there is value there that can be of benefit to my estate. My reason for starting this thread was to avoid mistakes that could ruin that value.
hbgatsf I don't, and never have, consider the trains as an investment. Same with the boats and fishing gear. Having said that there is value there that can be of benefit to my estate. My reason for starting this thread was to avoid mistakes that could ruin that value. Rick
I think most people who are into collectibles do it primarily for the enjoyment it brings and the monetary value is secondary. Using collectibles as an investment is risky business because it's so easy for the bottom to fall out.
I don't expect my collection to bring in more than pennies on the dollar. The locos and rolling stock will have value but people who shop at estate sales are bargain hunters. If the executor wants to go to the trouble of selling it piecemeal, it might fetch a bit more. The structures might bring a few bucks provided they are carefully removed. The electrical elements will have some value but again, pennies on the dollar. The scenery and the track will mostly end up in the dumpster along with a lot of sweat equity. I'm not too concerned about it. I've told my heirs my plan is to die penniless but that requires perfect timing.
I almost commented on this thread Saturday, but thought better of it. Not sure why I am commenting now.
Rick, you are kidding yourself if you think your model trains will have any measurable value for your heirs.
Model trains, and lots of other hobbies, should be bought with what I call "restaurant money", you know, like the money you spend eating out, or going on vacation. Do you have plan to "cash out" on any of that money spent?
If I ever gave one minutes thought to recovering a dime I have spend on model trains, I would sell it all tomorrow and get out of this hobby.
Because the very nature of your question would spoil the hobby for me. I have never, and will never, make a modeling choice based on the future value of the model.
I build model trains to escape these kinds of thoughts, not to be controlled by them.
When I'm gone, my trains go to my son or my grandson, if they don't want them it matters not what happens to them.
But two things are for sure, my surviving heirs will not need the money, and I am not getting rid of them in advance of my death to save someone some "inconvenience". But if they manage to get a few dollars for the "inconvenience", good for them.
And John is right about real estate. Rentals are a good return, people paid me lots of money over the 25 years we owned those houses. And we bought them with cash, to make money not avoid taxes.
But the house you live in, not so much. As he points out, you have won if you live in nice surroundings for a fraction of what others pay to live that well. I'm 65 years old, and never had a mortgage on the house I live in, and only had a few very short term ones on investment properties.
Have fun with your trains........
Sheldon
hbgatsfI was curious about what drives the price on used locomotives and rolling stock beyond the quality of the model.
PHOTOGRAPHS!
If you are going to sell used odel trains on eBay, include enough good photographs. Show all the handrails, fragile details, and fiddly bits to let the buyer know it is in good condition.
If you only show one side, the buyer will assume the other side is marred.
If it is weathered, photograph it to make the weathering look good. Play with the camera settings to see what looks best.
I cannot stress this enough. Time invested in photographing the model you are selling always pays dividends.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
I bought my current house in 1996 when I was still single and we just had a developer offer us 11 times what I paid for it.
I also have never had a mortgage on a house I lived in. At age 19 I started buying rental properties that were mostly 100% mortgaged. At age 40 I was out of the rental game having sold them all and moved on to investments where I did not have to deal with tenants. I was more than set for life by then and fully retired at 52.
When we go my kids will call the auction house to empty the place and take whatever cash that comes from that. They both are or will be too highly paid to be wasting time selling our junk. I told them to donate what MRR stuff there is to a local club to use or sell for the clubs' benefit.
My only money regret is our wedding rings, they were a chunk of change and neither one of us wears them and they have been in the drawer for most of our marriage. Even the wife admits it was a waste buying them as our work prevented us from ever wearing them for safety or practical reasons. I am not sure what the return on jewelry is since 1997 but I bet it is not great.
I am the executor of an Estate and was left to deal with a house and its contents. After removing the important documents and three or four interesting items the house was sold to a developer contents included. He knocked it down and took it all to the dump. There was food in the fridge and cupboards, all the clothes were still in the closets and drawers, china in the china cabinet. The economics of dealing with it any other way did not make sense.
If my trains go in the dumpster I could care less, I'm dead.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Brent,
I have just one comment, the real estate market where you are is not "typical" by any means.
After 25 years our rentals were worth about 2.5 times what we paid.
The big blue Victorian only brought about 35% more than we invested to purchase and restore it.
House flipping here only nets about 15% to 20% of the sales price as profit. That's why I never did that. I make more money doing the rehab work for those who do flips.
Your house would maybe bring $600,000 in this market, $1,000,000 buys some really swanky places. And $400,000 buys a very comfortable home.
The townhouses of the masses sell for $225,000 to $275,000.
The pandemic has raised prices a little, maybe 10%, but that is already going away.
Resale value and price are two different things. Resale value is determined solely by the buyer: What he is willing to pay for an item in a given condition. Ergo, sometimes the box is worth more thanthe model.
The price on the otter hand (and otters alway have two hands) is set by the seller, take it or leave it. This is why eBay works. Buyers compete with each other for the item in question.
LION (not being on a cash ekomony) will trade ten pounds of freshly caugh wildebeest for your left-handed smoke-shifter.
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
John-NYBW rrebell John-NYBW Whenever I'm buying or selling anything, I am looking out for my self interest. I leave it up to the other party to look after theirs. If somebody is willing to sell me something for less than I think it's worth, I'm taking it. If somebody is willing to pay me more for something that I think it's worth, I'm taking his money. I learned this lesson through years of investing in the stock market. If a stock is undervalued, buy it. If it is overvalued, sell it. If it is seriously overvalued, sell it short. Think Enron. Fortunately I didn't listen to the people 25 years ago who told me Amazon was seriously overvalued. I wish I had listened to the people who told me it was undervalued. As far as the markets go, you have to fiqure in your long time costs. Any time you don't make a return on investment you are losing money if you could have made a return. The true return on any investment is what you earn over inflation. If you earned 5% on your money this past year, you lost money. A lot of people look on their house as an investment but as an investment, it performs rather poorly. On average, a house only appreciates on average about 2% per year which is lower than inflation. Of course it goes in cycles where it outperforms inflation but in the long run, a house is going to be worth less in actual dollars than what you paid for it and that doesn't even figure in the interest you paid on the mortage, taxes, insurance, and how much you spent to maintain it. My first house cost $36,000 and I sold it 22 years later for $80,000. I didn't make any money on it. The cost of living more than doubled in the time. My inflation calculator tells me if the value had just kept up with inflation, it would have been worth $87,768. I actually lost $7,768 on the sale. Factor in the interest payments, taxes, insurance and what I spent in upkeep, that is what I paid for shelter for 22 years. So I didn't make money on my house but I did get something of value for my money.
Fundamentally, I say don't even think about resale value when deciding whether to purchase something you want, or repaint it, letter it or weather it the way you want. Be selfish and think only of yourself for those things and let something like resale value take care of itself. I mean, you buy toothbrushes knowing the resale is guaranteed to be zero. Because you really want the toothbrush.
Now, by all means refrain from repainting, decaling, or weathering something until you know what you're doing. That's not what I'm saying. But you refrain for your own benefit not some future owner's.
One thing about resale value is that it does tend to be geographic. A few years ago there was a very large collection of reasonably nice trains being sold at various local (Wisconsin) train shows, almost all lettered for the Monon. It wasn't moving and at each show you'd see the price go down or the seller (not the original owner, who I think had lived in Indiana) be more willing to cut a deal. Similarly, when I go to distant train shows in Galesburg IL or Davenport IA, I have seen C&NW and Milwaukee Road stuff selling cheap that would be highly sought after closer to Milwaukee and Chicago. In Davenport, Rock Island stuff seemed to be favored which makes sense.
And then there are special cases where fairly ordinary trains for whatever reason have acquired a bit of a collector cache. Plasticville particularly the O/S scale line. Herkimer passenger cars. Jordan vehicles and wagons have started to be like that. As of yet it does not appear the old Walthers passenger car kits of stamped tin and wood have formed a collector interest, except for their interurbans and gas electics. The Plasticville things might be based partly on nostalgia; the Jordan and Walthers because in many cases nobody has brought out better versions so they remain the only game in town.
On the few cases where I have paid for a table at a swap meet I have one over-riding goal: to come home empty handed. I price accordingly, even when I know some of my customers are resale sharks.
Dave Nelson
dknelsonWhere I have paid for a table at a swap meet I have one over-riding goal: to come home empty handed.
When I pay for a table at a Train Show, my only goal is to be in the building four hours before the doors open and snap up all the good deals before the herd of turtles comes inside!
Worth every penny!
The picture shows a typical Kevin train show table. Not much on it, and all over-priced. I am just there to hang out and grab bargains. If I sell a model for too much money, that is OK too.
SeeYou190When I pay for a table at a Train Show, my only goal is to be in the building four hours before the doors open and snap up all the good deals before the herd of turtles comes inside!
As Captain Kirk would say, "officer thinking Mr. Parson".