hon30critter rrebell 1.5 million pageveiws a month costs around $235 plus software if you don't own it, that is a lot of views. But it is not a lot of revenue. Dave
rrebell 1.5 million pageveiws a month costs around $235 plus software if you don't own it, that is a lot of views.
But it is not a lot of revenue.
Dave
Pruitt First, I was really cheezed off by how Kalmbach switched over to Trains.com and just left all the MRVP subscribers twisting in the wind, with almost no new content (and no explanation) for many months. They were diverting content over to the (at the time) "coming soon" Trains.com, and didn't even have the basic business ethics to let subscribers know what was happening. I'm pretty sure this was not the decision of the editorial staff, but of the company owners. At this point I'm thinking "why continue to support people who apparently don't give a rat's patutti about their own subscriber base?"
First, I was really cheezed off by how Kalmbach switched over to Trains.com and just left all the MRVP subscribers twisting in the wind, with almost no new content (and no explanation) for many months. They were diverting content over to the (at the time) "coming soon" Trains.com, and didn't even have the basic business ethics to let subscribers know what was happening. I'm pretty sure this was not the decision of the editorial staff, but of the company owners. At this point I'm thinking "why continue to support people who apparently don't give a rat's patutti about their own subscriber base?"
I have the same challenge with a magazine here in the U.K. I subscribe to.
They are doing all kinds of things to get more subscribers yet are ignoring the ones they already have.
Then I look at other Companies (non-railroading) doing exactly the same. Not caring for the customers they already have until the customers threaten to leave.
Perhaps those in charge of M R could make things easier in sending articles in to them. Keep the subscribers informed of what and why they change things.
Perhaps the subscribers send in articles. Many a time it is said 'My work is not good enough'. So if it is rejected nothing is lost. Maybe the Editor sees it differently ------.
David
To the world you are someone. To someone you are the world
I cannot afford the luxury of a negative thought
Model Railroader informs, inspires, and entertains the model railroading community.
i'm letting my subscription lapse because i feel the magazine markets to newcomers to the hobby and i'm interested in more advanced topics which i read about on these forums.
i am disappointed that their description mentions "entertains"
i find the articles in the NMRA magazine more interesting.
(and yes, i've tried publishing articles i would find interesting in MRer)
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
For some time now it seems as though Fine Scale Modeler is the same issue every time. And since I have left IPMS, both the national and local chapter (I walked away from a local chapter lifetime membership and I served on the national executive board), and I haven't worked on a non-railroad model for a couple of years, I'm considering not renewing it.
rrebell1.5 million pageveiws a month costs around $235 plus software if you don't own it, that is a lot of views.
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
hon30critter Hi Mark, I keep my magazine subscription current if only to support the forums. The forums do not come free. Somebody has to pay the costs. It is obvious that Model Railroader is operating on a very tight budget, but I will do my part to help them last as long as possible, hopefully well into the future. The forums have become a very enjoyable part of my day. Cheers!! Dave
Hi Mark,
I keep my magazine subscription current if only to support the forums. The forums do not come free. Somebody has to pay the costs. It is obvious that Model Railroader is operating on a very tight budget, but I will do my part to help them last as long as possible, hopefully well into the future. The forums have become a very enjoyable part of my day.
Cheers!!
NittanyLion My gripe, insofar as I have one, is that the updates to the digital arm are spotty and sporadic. On the other hand, having archival access to both MR and Trains is worth the price of admission to me.
My gripe, insofar as I have one, is that the updates to the digital arm are spotty and sporadic. On the other hand, having archival access to both MR and Trains is worth the price of admission to me.
This is my feeling too. If MRVP had something approaching a consistent schedule with some of their series I would definitely appreciate it.
I very much feel the same way. One thing I would like to see in MR would be comparisons of the same model produced by different manufacturers. I am aware that MR relies on ads; thus, you cannot give out grades of 28/100 or so as Consumer Reports occasionally does. However, you can give some basic information for the prototype and the models, e.g. comparison of metrics, such as wheel diameter, length,... Furthermore, you can highlight the advantages of each model without being negative, e.g. "if you want sound, buy product A" or "if prototypical but fragile details are important, try product B".
Most of my modeling inspiration I get from the "Warbonnet", the magazine of the Santa Fe Railway Historical and Modeling Society.
Whale... The subscription of the LION is sitting on my desk right now. It too ends with the May Issue.
LION is getting older, and him has not gotten to the train room as him wood want.
My fault, but dat is neither here nor there. I have been thinking of suscribing to TRAINS instead, but wood have to read a copy or two before that decission I make.
But then I already have permission to subscribe to MR, so it is a simple matter of dropping the card in to the box and be covered for the next three years. So yes, I will drop the subscription into the male, but also take a gander at Trains. After all, watt is sauce for the goose has to be sauce for the gander.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Well, it will not get any better if everyone stops buying it.
Well, it will not get any better if everyone stops buying it.
Truer words were never spoken.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Youtube - not for me, most of those guys drive me nuts in 4 minutes. ... Sheldon
Youtube - not for me, most of those guys drive me nuts in 4 minutes.
...
Sheldon
Youtube has some good content, a bit of it is excellent, but most of it is nothing but narcissism and posturing. Most videos, even the excellent ones, are about twice as long as they should be. This is what irritates me about many how-tos; they often contain great information, it's just that you have to watch 12 minutes of video in order to get 96 seconds of what you need.
Doughless ATLANTIC CENTRAL Just tired of all the cynical negative Nancy's in the world who think every business is out to take advantage of them. I worked in a hobby shop selling trains from age 14 to 22, at the end of which I was managing a train department. Most people look at this hobby from their own set of interests, I have seen the big picture of exactly how diverse this hobby is. Do this hobby how ever you like, but stop complaining, about prices, products, media, organizations, etc. Sheldon Agreed. Now, I haven't noticed TF being any more guilty of that than anybody else. In fact, I think he's one of the more jolly fellows here. Producers make different products for slightly different situations. Not every thing is going to work as well in a given situation than another brand's will. Pointing out errors or flaws is okay. It can be informative. Expecting there to not be errors or flaws is unreasonable given the realities of economics, IMO.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Just tired of all the cynical negative Nancy's in the world who think every business is out to take advantage of them. I worked in a hobby shop selling trains from age 14 to 22, at the end of which I was managing a train department. Most people look at this hobby from their own set of interests, I have seen the big picture of exactly how diverse this hobby is. Do this hobby how ever you like, but stop complaining, about prices, products, media, organizations, etc. Sheldon
Just tired of all the cynical negative Nancy's in the world who think every business is out to take advantage of them.
I worked in a hobby shop selling trains from age 14 to 22, at the end of which I was managing a train department. Most people look at this hobby from their own set of interests, I have seen the big picture of exactly how diverse this hobby is.
Do this hobby how ever you like, but stop complaining, about prices, products, media, organizations, etc.
Agreed. Now, I haven't noticed TF being any more guilty of that than anybody else. In fact, I think he's one of the more jolly fellows here.
Producers make different products for slightly different situations. Not every thing is going to work as well in a given situation than another brand's will.
Pointing out errors or flaws is okay. It can be informative.
Expecting there to not be errors or flaws is unreasonable given the realities of economics, IMO.
? None of my frustration is with Track Fiddler.
John, I feel much the same way. My hat is off to those who have developed fine skills and vision, and who have lovingly crafted publish-worthy layouts. Even more, they wrote it up and offered it up to our hosts. It takes a lot of motivation.
I have been published, and each time I declined the payment. I feel the intrinsic value of being published is 'reward' enough for me, and it's sufficient validation. Also, it helped the bottom line of the publisher, which was important to me.
RMC subscriber too here, yes. RMC with Steve and Otto et. al. has been on a winning streak these last few years. A good friend of mine got his 1870's boxcars published in an article there lately. Jason Schron's monthly column is a peak behind the curtain. RMC has had regular articles on vintage trains, interurban and traction modeling, lots of diagrams, scratchbuilding tips, product reviews, etc. that just make it a better read than MR currently is.
MR has developed a stereotype of being TT&TO Appalachian coal railroads in the transition era, the same DCC decoder installation tutorial and lots of yammering about car cards and operating schemes. It's not bad... but its gotten repetitive and stale.
In RMC I expect to get a vintage passenger car diagram, a scratch built Victorian station AND a detailed history of commuter rail sometimes in the same magazine. Justin Franz had an article the other month that was short but detailed research on the milk industry and railroads in RMC. Next month could be a modern BNSF pike or a steam era winter in Canada, or a CSX spur in Miami. RMC is fun, and hard to predict what each month's issue may contain. MR acts like we need yet another "how to install a DCC decoder" article and the magazine suffers by repetition.
I can't afford two magazine subscriptions only one, rent is to high to allow me to subscribe to both... so RMC gets my money on merit and quality alone. MR needs serious strides to up their game before I consider resubscribing.
maxman Well, the magazine subsidizes the forum, so if enough people drop the magazine then I assume that the forum goes away.
Well, the magazine subsidizes the forum, so if enough people drop the magazine then I assume that the forum goes away.
Yupper, and that is well understood by our hosts who have seen the wild fire coming at them for years. Hence, their new business model, and who could blame them....really. If they can keep a staff, publish good content, and subsidize this forum as a result, it would be worth it for me.
Mark, I have been in the hobby, and joined here, in Jan '05. Never did more than to purchase maybe 15 editions, and then only locally when it arrived. Two Christmasses ago I decided to give it a go and have been getting it ever since. I enjoy the magazine. It's a good quality production. I think it has improved over the past five years or so and that this might be because people posting here began to offer unsolicited advice and complaints about the content of the magazine. It's almost as if they took notice....bless their hearts.
I can't advise you, except that you can re-up any time. Take a year off, and see if you can stand it...?
rrebellThey kinda killed the contribute thing years ago, have you ever tried to submit stuff? Also they used to file stuff they liked but would not give a clue if they would ever use it and wanted to basicaly own the content even if you don't get paid till it is published. Now maybe those rules have changed, anyone try to submit lately?
No, I've never tried to submit anything. I just started the hobby four years ago, and I don't have any kind of expertise to write for a publication.
Payment? I had never considered payment. I don't know the general magazine publishing world, but I know something about educational publishing. In that area, very seldom is a person paid for submitted content even if it is published.
I had honestly not considered payment for a submission. I would think most model railroaders who submit material would consider the publishing to be the honor, not how much they will earn.
I would guess that an international publication like Model Railroader would have lots of requirements for articles and photos to be published. They put out a professional product, and would not want an amateur article.
I would bet that if an article was submitted and the editors thought the subject or the photos were worthy of publication, they would work with the author to get the quality they want.
Disclaimer: I know nothing of Model Railroader's policies, and I know nothing of magazine publishing in general (other than educational publications). I'm just commenting on a forum.
York1 John
York1 As far as the amount of content in MR, I know that a while back Stephen Otte said they needed modelers to contribute. It's not a simple process, so some of us probably back off when thinking of content we can submit. Some people have the mistaken belief that Kalmbach is a massive operation, taking up floors of some building somewhere, with rich publishing families owning the company. They, like most magazines today, are running on a very slim profit margin, and they have editors who are working three or four different jobs to keep things going. The alternative is no magazine, which I would find unacceptable. My two cents: I hope everyone renews their subscription, and I hope that when you're through with the magazine, if you don't want to keep it, give it to an interested person. They may become interested, subscribe themselves, and that helps everyone.
As far as the amount of content in MR, I know that a while back Stephen Otte said they needed modelers to contribute. It's not a simple process, so some of us probably back off when thinking of content we can submit.
Some people have the mistaken belief that Kalmbach is a massive operation, taking up floors of some building somewhere, with rich publishing families owning the company.
They, like most magazines today, are running on a very slim profit margin, and they have editors who are working three or four different jobs to keep things going.
The alternative is no magazine, which I would find unacceptable.
My two cents: I hope everyone renews their subscription, and I hope that when you're through with the magazine, if you don't want to keep it, give it to an interested person. They may become interested, subscribe themselves, and that helps everyone.
I subscribe to both MR and RMC, and RMC right now is a better product. MR seems to be half DCC/Arduino/High Tech articles and the yearly project layout-plus a bunch of Walthers ads. RMC is mostly "craftsman" articles on how to build/modify stuff, like locos, cars, structures, scenery, etc., plus a layout of the month.
I have subscribed to MR since about 1977. I still recall how excited I was at the age of 12 to find MR and RMC in a candy store magazine rack. I had no idea that an adult hobby existed around model trains. Yes, the last dozen years or so have been less than exciting (remember the Gorre and Daphetid article in March 63?) but then several years ago there was that article on Arduinos that lit a fire under me. To me MR is a tradition. A comfort food if you will. Yes, smaller and maybe not as earth shattering as it was to a 12 year old way back when. I do wish there were more videos on Trains.com but then let's face it, Covid has put a lot of things on hold. At this point in life, as I try to simplify, MR is not one of those things I will sacrifice.
Once again, I made the decision to renew MR for one more year. I've been a reader since my dad bought me my first issue in June 1957 while visiting his favorite newstand. I started my first HO layout that fall. It lasted until 65 when I got my drivers liscense, my first car and noticed girls! My first house (with a basement)in 73 brought me back on board. I've been a subscriber since. Kalmbach's direction lately has been very disappointing. The Trains.com site is terrible. Hard to navagate, lots of useless content, no timely posts for many of the video series, and a complete lack of communication from the suits to the subscribers. Many posts urge one not to punish the publication for the digital problems. BUNK! Both have Kalmbach in their title and should be painted with the same brush.
- Douglas
Track fiddler ATLANTIC CENTRAL I get it, my whole life is about me, and we are all that way - what's in it for me? There ya go. Respectfully stating (not all) and definitely not me. There was a lot of other good content in your prior post that you were even getting High Fives for. And even the one after that was kinda nice. I'm quite dumbfounded your current post is the difference between Night and Day. What happened? It seems like you just snapped and I don't see any reason for it??? TF
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I get it, my whole life is about me, and we are all that way - what's in it for me?
I get it, my whole life is about me, and we are all that way - what's in it for me?
There ya go.
Respectfully stating (not all) and definitely not me.
There was a lot of other good content in your prior post that you were even getting High Fives for. And even the one after that was kinda nice. I'm quite dumbfounded your current post is the difference between Night and Day. What happened? It seems like you just snapped and I don't see any reason for it???
TF
ATLANTIC CENTRALSame goes for the NMRA, it is a volunteer organization. I don't have the time or personal situation to allow me to volunteer, so I pay the money to provide tools for those who can. By all accounts only one in twenty (or less) active modelers belongs to the NMRA - imagine what they could be doing if everyone belonged.
I wholeheartedly agree with this Remember, standards for track, wheels, and such wouldn't be around without the NMRA. Ditto for DCC. Can you imagine a world without DDC and sound decoders? DCC and now LCC standards continue to be defined and supported by the NMRA. If the organization dies because people don't support it, Interoperability dies too.
Greg Shindledecker Modeling the =WM= Thomas Sub in the mid-70s
I, personally, don't think I am going to renew an in-print version of any of the Kalmbach publications in the near future. The trains.com unlimited is quite nice with the archive access, and I am quite happy to read digitally. However, I know some people prefer reading physical media, and I am very happy for model railroader to continue providing that.
As far as the free resources out there, while they definitely exist, I find that quality wise they can be hit or miss. A nice thing about model railraoder, over the other resources available, is that often it brings some nice stuff across that I wouldn't have thought of even looking up. The AskMR section continues to be quite good, and as a major publisher MR can afford to not just review new rolling stock and locomotives consistently, but also publish articles about how to install and work with new systems (for instance, the lighting system from the March 2022 issue).
It's ultimately a personal issue, but as someone who is still looking forward towards a lifetime of rail modelling, I believe that it is a worthwhile resource.
Well Mark, I guess my expectations, or my needs, are different from yours. Regarding both the NMRA and MR.
I know this will sound arrogant, but after 54 years at this I don't need MR, the NMRA, or some guy on YouTube to help me build model trains. I know what works for me and have mastered those skills for the most part. So what I am expecting is a little different I guess. Maybe after the layout is well underway, and I slow down the work pace, I will see if MR is interested in what I might want to write about for their magazine?
I like the NMRA website and the renewed efforts in the data sheet program. I get all the emails from out local region and division, wish I could make time for some of those events, but honestly, I not up for long drives and overnight stays for that sort of stuff.
I guess I'm a glass half full kind of person, and not so cynical about businesses and their motives (maybe that comes from being self employed most of my life).
So do what you feel is right for you. Just another example of how I feel less and less connected to this form or the broader social side of this hobby.
Time for me to build the layout, gather up 8 or 10 guys to help me play with it, and stop wasting my time here, or Facebook, etc.
ATLANTIC CENTRALWell, it will not get any better if everyone stops buying it.
...MR is not perfect, the hobby, the market, and the media business in general have changed and continue to change - give them a chance, they are not Apple or Microsoft, or even Ford, GM or Toyota.
MR used to "police" the hobby, to some extent. They would call out, in print, an organization or a company that was doing the hobby a disservice. On several occasions they actually called out the NMRA in the past. When is the last time they did that (and the NMRA certainly has things to be called out on. They've been mentioned many times on threads in this very forum.)? When's the last time you recall MR saying anything negative about an advertiser, or anyone else for that matter? Now they're not much about service to the hobby anymore - they're all about service to their bottom line.
The economic realities of publishing in the modern era may be such that a print magazine is no longer viable. But constant rductions in product value is certainly not the way to keep it going.
Same goes for the NMRA, it is a volunteer organization. I don't have the time or personal situation to allow me to volunteer, so I pay the money to provide tools for those who can. By all accounts only one in twenty (or less) active modelers belongs to the NMRA - imagine what they could be doing if everyone belonged. They did important stuff back in the day - if I can afford this hobby I can afford to support their efforts. I'm not really the convention type, but I still belong, 52 years now.
For example, here in Wyoming the northern division is completely inactive. Doesn't have to be, but the superintendent apparently is only interested in holding the title, and not in actually running the division. I volunteered to help out and, other than a couple emails, was ignored. Complaining to the Region or National about the situation accomplishes nothing (ask me how I know).
So yeah, it would be great to be a subscriber at MR's 100th anniversary. But the way they're going, there's not going to be much left by then. Time to cut my losses?
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
richhotrain maxman Well, the magazine subsidizes the forum, so if enough people drop the magazine then I assume that the forum goes away. Do you know for a fact that the magazine subsidizes the forum? Rich
Do you know for a fact that the magazine subsidizes the forum?
Rich
100% certain? Not much is 100%, except possibly death and taxes.
On the other hand, someone paid for the forum upgrade. And it wasn’t me and it wasn’t you.
Whether or not that was money well spent is a whole different topic.