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To Renew Or Not To Renew

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Posted by NHTX on Sunday, February 6, 2022 12:41 AM

     I've been on the fence about this discussion since it began.  I have to admit, I intentionally let my subscription to MR expire, with no intent to renew.

     My introduction to MR came about in 1959 and, I bought it for years in hobby shops.  As hobby shops began to disappear, subscription was the way to go.  After a lot of thought, I had to pull the plug.  There are myriad reasons for my decision including the switch to a darker, more grey paper.  Then the pictures seem muddy, almost like watercolors, in many instances.  Could this be the result of the change in paper?  There is almost zero prototype content, and what there is, is accompanied by a photo that is usually a little larger than a postage stamp.  As a very unscientific evaluation, I went through the February 2022 issue, looking for prototype, photographic content, no matter where it may be found, or the subject.  On the inside cover, there were three photos of rail equipment that were about half the size of a business card-in an ad.  On page 11, Hatton's had a picture of their building in their ad.  A picture (also small) of the hind end of Southern Pacific's "Del Monte" appeared on page 16-in an ad.  Page 18 has the first picture of a piece of real rail equipment, a crane, that is not in an ad.  Page 21 has a skeleton log car-in an ad.  Page 24 has a cement silo off in the distance of a picture (also very small)of the laker S.S. Alpena.                                  

    Onward to page 36, where we are treated to a business card sized photograph of a two footer being "sparked".  Page 45 brings us to the conclusion of the Severna Park club layout article and, we have another one of those small prototype photos; of their club building!  The next page treats us to a larger picture--of a derelict coach riding piggyback on a flatcar.  Page 50 has a photo that is so large it overlaps onto the adjoining page--with absolutely nothing rail related at all, of a street scene, somewhere on this planet!  Finally, on page 60, we have a train picture!  And, its bigger than a business card.  Page 62 is the keeper, with a pair of Santa Fe geeps shuffling stock cars!  I guess this is what made the magazine worth $7.99.  But wait!  As a bonus, on p.74, there is a picture of a real prototype-wait for it-man.  With a model locomotive.  In a postcard sized photo.

    After being a dedicated reader and once the hobby shops died, subscriber who chased down back issues and bought the archives disc when it became available, I'm bewildered in one way, and a bit peeved in others.  Sitting in the files that Kalmbach has probably amassed over the decades, is this the best you've got?  Articles on how to cut, ream, paint and weather a piece of tubing so it looks like a rusty piece of pipe?  An urban street scene from only the Creator knows where?

     During the 70s, 80s and 90s, I every subscribed to every model and most of the prototype magazines in print.  During those years, we were fed information on the prototype to bring realism into our creation and what we want it to be.  I don't need a magazine to get a 3 car train set and run it on the kitchen floor.  If I was into sound and DCC, maybe MR would have some value but, I'm not and it doesn't as currently being presented.  

    As far as this forum goes, if it becomes a subscription operation and the price doesn't exceed the subscription price for the magazine--I'll go forum only.  I learn a lot, occasionally comment on something I have knowledge about but scratch my head wondering how many of these simple, newbie questions  on this forum, could be used to generate better content than street scenes from far-away, mysterious places?  I hope Kalmbach puts the "railroad" back into that "Railroader".  Until then, it will be RMC for me.

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Posted by Bayway Terminal on Saturday, February 5, 2022 8:30 PM

I renewed MR for 2022 only becuse i was offerd a one year subscription for $27.00 together with a free 12 month gift subscription for a friend. I have been reading MR for over 30 yrs. and have been very disapointed over the last 5 years or so. I also receive Model Railroad Craftsman and find it to be more helpfull overall for the type of detailed modeling i enjoy such as scratch building and kit bashing, notwitstanding the print quality and well written articles compared to MR. Unfortunately something seems to have gone wrong in MR's front office at a time when the hobby has become more popuar than ever?   Bayway Terminal  NJ

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Posted by doctorwayne on Saturday, February 5, 2022 5:10 PM

mbinsewi

I just had to go read your article Wayne.

Mike.

Your comment is much appreciated, Mike.

Part of my reason for submitting that to Model Railroader was my desire to be able to stop painting locomotives for others, in that paint scheme.

I took the originals in to my local hobbyshop, basically just to be able to show someone what I had done, as I knew almost no one in model railroading at that time. 
The guy behind the counter asked if I would mind leaving them there for a few days, as he thought that some of his other customers might enjoy seeing them on display.
I was a little hesitant, but when he assured me that no one would be touching them, I agreed.
A week-or-so later, I dropped in to pick them up, and as I was putting them back into their custom-made box, the counter-guy bent down below the counter, then popped-up with a dozen boxed and undecorated Athearn geeps.  "Can ya paint these?"
I was somewhat taken aback, but at the same time flattered, too, so I agreed, along with a warning that it would take some time, as the process was multiple coats of brush-applied paints and lettering done using dry transfers as masking devices.
In due time I returned with the 12 painted locos, only to be presented with another dozen undecs.
If I recall correctly, it was after 3 dozen-or-so that he talked me into buying an airbrush with my painting earnings, and that opened-up a whole new learning curve for me.

Just for the TH&B diesels, I painted 15 switchers (one in brass and another in N scale), and another 51 geeps (two in brass, and another two in a slightly darker maroon, by request).
Each new batch left me hoping for it to end, so I began jacking-up the price by a few dollars....I don't think that it was much of a deterrent, as I had no inkling of what a professional painter might charge....I don't think my price went any higher than $30.00, and that, of course included modifications and details for the body shells, along with the paint and lettering.
When Atlas released their version of a TH&B loco, I was almost ready to write them a "Thank you" note, for rescuing me.  I've often wondered if those paint jobs helped to persuade Atlas to make that release...TH&B fans are well-known as being fanatical about their hometown railroad, especially in Hamilton, Ontario, and Buffalo, New York. 
Not too long after that, Proto came along with their version of the TH&B diesels, too, which were also a big hit.
My originals were one-powered and one-dummy, but I later re-motored both of them with Mashima can motors, and added a bunch of weight, too.
They don't see a lot of use on my late '30s-era layout, but I've no intention of parting with them.
I still do custom painting for a very small circle of friends, along with detail work and repairs, too.

Wayne

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Posted by Seeker_CNY on Saturday, February 5, 2022 12:30 PM

I just let my subscription expire this month. I still want to subscribe to the print magazine, but I wanted to drop archive access. Mailings and emails came reminding me to renew, but all renewal offerings still included the archive access. I tried calling customer service to cancel just my archive access but just sat on hold for over and hour on three separate occasions. I tried the email route. I received an acknowledgement that they received the email and was told a response was forthcoming... still waiting for that. So the only solution I could come up with was to let my current subscription lapse and then start a new print only subscription. I hope these problems are temporary as I like the magazine and the forums and hope my future experiences with both are pleasant once again.

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Posted by mbinsewi on Saturday, February 5, 2022 9:34 AM

doctorwayne
In due time, I received payment (as I recall, it was somewhat over $100.00), and then saw my effort in the February issue in 1980.

I just had to go read your article Wayne.  Yes

Mike.

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Posted by doctorwayne on Friday, February 4, 2022 10:16 PM

I have never subscribed to Model Railroader, but from the early '60s, bought it faithfully from the many hobbyshops which once existed in this area.  I did the same with Trains, and Classic Trains, too, when it became available.

I also bought RMC, and, when there was an article of particular interest, Mainline Modeler, too.

I also submitted a short article (about three pages, which include a photo and several non-related ads) to MR's "Paint Shop".
I had also sent, I think, three pictures (slides), and received a letter from MR indicating that they liked my write-up, but would appreciate it if I could provide better photos, so I shot a few more and sent them.

In due time, I received payment (as I recall, it was somewhat over $100.00), and then saw my effort in the February issue in 1980.
I was pleasantly surprised by the payment, but early in 1981, also received a hardcover volume of the entire run of MR for 1980.

In, I think, 2013, I submitted a cd to RMC, which included both a written article and illustrative photos, but never heard from them, as they folded-up in 2014. 

When White River assumed ownership, I did subscribe for a couple of years, but didn't care for their style, especially when compared to that of the Carstens offerings.

I do enjoy the MR Forums, but tend to concentrate more on the topics that are of interest to me, whether to learn something or to offer advice to fellow modellers, whether newbies or skilled longtimers.  I enjoy learning, as well as teaching.

Wayne

 

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Posted by peahrens on Friday, February 4, 2022 6:43 PM

I'll admit I haven't read all the replys.

I started my layout in 2012 and started MR subscription a couple of years before as I considered actually building a retirement layout and then getting into planning.  The Forum was something that for earlier model railroading experiences did not exist.  It's hard to overstate the learning value and enjoyment the Forum provided; e.g., many questions answered and enjoying perticipating in threads where my experiences allowed commenting.  The Forum became part of my modelling enjoyment; both intake and contributing.

We are moving this year so I have Sad demolished my layout.  In my case, a new layout is not very likely, though I may join a module oriented club at our new destination and possibly build a module (or not).  I will remain interested, at least near term.

I actually just skim the MR magazine when it arrives; my subscription expires next year.  My current inclination is to extend my subscrition when the time comes.  One consideration will be to support Kalmbach in appreciatiion of the value the Forum brings to the modelling community.  It was a huge assistance to me, and much valued. 

EDIT: I went back and visited some of the prior threads.  The post is most constructive IMHO and I appreciate all the viewpoints.  Kudos to Steve's allowing, and commenting on, the frank discussion.  I am not 100% aligned with every aspect of many opinions (my comments were gut reaction) but I believe the dialogue is very constructive.  The times are, as always, a-changing and this is part of it.  A positive  / constructive approach by everyone will hopefully enable the best future.

Paul

Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent

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Posted by rrebell on Friday, February 4, 2022 4:43 PM

Hey, I could be wrong, I could be right, it was a long, long time ago, sorry if I am wrong, about the article thing, that is.

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Posted by Fisker on Friday, February 4, 2022 3:30 PM

After being a long time subscriber (since 1973 except for a 4 year period when i was an indergrad), I have let my Model railroader subscription lapse with the Dec 2021 issue.

The reason for this action is the constant erosion of content for the "regular" print subscriber.  First, as the price hjas gone up the amount of content in each monthly issue has gone donwn.  Then with the advent of Model Railroader  video plus, certain electronic content was walled off.  Then it became more expensive to get a paper copy of the magazine. (The default monthly subscription was now the eletonic version. you have to apy more for the paper copy.)

Finally, almost all electronic content was cut off to the regular subscriber with the start of Trains.com. So contnet that I use to have access to like layout visits including those videos supplied by the subscribers was no longer available. One could argue that Trains.com provides much more content (at a much higher price) but it's hard not to feel that my regular subscription has been devalues and that I'm being cheated out of what I paid for.

This plus the rapid increase in the prices of all aspects of model railroading has soured me on the hobby.  Maybe it's time to look at other pursuits.

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Posted by selector on Friday, February 4, 2022 11:49 AM

I would think a subscriber to any of the publications, or at least to the relevant one for the forum, would be coded exempt from ads.  We all know what we want or need, and we know where to find it.  And more, almost all of us do shop at one of the advertisers in the magazine, but not all of them.  I don't need to see their ads. 

I also get bombarded with emails from Kalmbach daily, and also from the three main etailers from whom I order products.  I don't need to see their ads.

I do use an ad blocker, and am quite happy with its performance.  Lots of white space on this page.

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Posted by rrebell on Friday, February 4, 2022 10:53 AM

Steven Otte

 

 
rrebell

They kinda killed the contribute thing years ago, have you ever tried to submit stuff? Also they used to file stuff they liked but would not give a clue if they would ever use it and wanted to basicaly own the content even if you don't get paid till it is published. Now maybe those rules have changed, anyone try to submit lately?

 

 

I'm willing to let opinions go by, including those I disagree with, even if I think those opinions are uninformed. But when people state falsehoods, I feel the need to correct the record.

Model Railroader has, for as long as I've worked there (and likely for a long time before), paid for articles on acceptance. That means we pay the contributor as soon as we decide we want the article, even though we don't know when it will be published, even if it never gets published. (The exception is Trackside Photos, which are paid upon publication.) In my experience, that's very unusual in the periodical publication business. 

As for the Forums, they bring us practically no revenue. I personally don't know why we continue to host them; they're definitely money-losers for Kalmbach. If you think the ads support the cost, ask yourself: Do you ever see ads on the Forums, or are you using an ad blocker? What proportion of people who come to the Forums do you think use ad blockers? Look at any of the many threads that have been posted over the years complaining about some ad or another, and see how many replies are from people claiming some kind of intellectual superiority over the OP because they're smart enough to use an ad blocker, and you'll have your answer. People are actually proud of it.

We also did a survey a number of years back asking what proportion of Forum users subscribe to any of our magazines, and it was a disappointingly low percentage. You, personally, the one reading this post right now, may be an exception, I don't know. But the vast majority of Forum users don't do a thing to support this company whose products and services you all claim to enjoy so much. 

 

Sorry but I did not say this was current information, wish I had kept the paper I was given and I was talking the mid 1990's (didn't relize it was that long ago, boy time flys). And yes I have personally had a subsciption many times and the more recent times I have done so because of the forum, or I would have forgotten about MR. The main reason I don't now (because I can well afford it) is it is hard to read regular print with my eye conditions and the way the mag shows on my computer is not pleasing and I have a modern laptop. The other things I talk about are only secondary. Yes I have previus forum experiance but it was before the ad-blocker craze. Also the ads you have here are rairly even hobby related, sometimes I wonder where the algorithm's come up with ads on many sites. They think because you looked at an item once out of curiosity that you were interested in other like items and don't give credence to what you look at all the time. I know it is all a great big balancing act and I know you are not responsable for decision made higher up but to us you are the face of the company. Last, you can block or deleat this thread but it will go away anyway in time whether or not you do anything but do you think it is just our voices, so few even bother to resond to any threads but they are part of your bottom line anyway and the lingerers need to be brought into the equation as  a digital presance is needed these days to survive and you need something to drive them to a site and as they say, any news is good news.

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Friday, February 4, 2022 9:34 AM

Steven Otte
As for the Forums, they bring us practically no revenue. I personally don't know why we continue to host them; they're definitely money-losers for Kalmbach. If you think the ads support the cost, ask yourself: Do you ever see ads on the Forums, or are you using an ad blocker? What proportion of people who come to the Forums do you think use ad blockers? Look at any of the many threads that have been posted over the years complaining about some ad or another, and see how many replies are from people claiming some kind of intellectual superiority over the OP because they're smart enough to use an ad blocker, and you'll have your answer. People are actually proud of it.

 

Whale... da LION is guilty of ad blocking... But then him thought you had to be a subscriber to use the forum. One of the reasons why I re-subscribed. My reason for considering dropping my subscription was the lack of use that I have been putting into my train room and train layout. Interest fading away a bit with old age and the inabillity to climb stairs.

But I was thinking to switch my subscription to Trains. Well I ordered a single copy to examine it (I know of no retailer within 300 miles of me that carries it) So I will consider adding it to my reading stack.

 

(ROAR)

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by Pruitt on Thursday, February 3, 2022 7:06 PM

Steven Otte
Model Railroader has, for as long as I've worked there (and likely for a long time before), paid for articles on acceptance. That means we pay the contributor as soon as we decide we want the article, even though we don't know when it will be published, even if it never gets published. (The exception is Trackside Photos, which are paid upon publication.) 

I'm actually a Model Railroader compensated author. Back in the early 1990's I wrote an essay titled "Beyond Railscope." It appeared in the March 1992 Model Railroader. (My name was Brunton at that time).

I was paid for the essay at the time it was accepted, so what Steve said about articles being paid for upon acceptance extended back well before his tenure at the magazine.

I don't remember which staff member(s) helped me whip the article into its final shape, but they were very patient and helpful through the entire process of writing and editing. It was extremely satisfying to see my name in print in THE magazine of model railroading, believe me! I still remeber that felling of finally having arrived! (And the couple hundred dollars I was paid for my efforts was pretty cool, too.)

I still have the acceptance letter for the essay packed away somewhere. To this day, I'm still very proud to say I'm a published author in Model Railroader, even if it was nearly 30 years ago.

And having said all that, I will be renewing my subscription. Some of the comments folks have made here reminded me of a few things I've forgotten in the day-to-day process of living. Plus, I think not getting the magazine every month would leave an undefined hole in my life.

Model railroading has been the one constant throughout almost my entire life, starting with my first year of high school way back in 1971. Thanks everyone, for reminding me that Model Railroader has been the one constant throughout my model railroading career.

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Thursday, February 3, 2022 6:47 PM

Rich,

As I mentioned early on, the tractor forum I belong to is member owned and free if you don't mind the ads. But if you use it for free they limit the amount of photo hosting and private messages you can use.

For the modest fee of $20 a year, you get no ads, and unlimited photo hosting and private messages.

It is VERY well moderated - no BS is tolerated.

It is a large forum, with separate pages for every brand, other special related subjects, etc. It has a for sale section, and the software works PERFECTLY.

Traffic on the GRAVELY portion has dropped off some in recent years as many people in that hobby have moved to several facebook private groups, but the forums on there are doing just fine overall.

Each primary page has a sticky section filled with tech info. My own ongoing thread about my improvements to my tractor is now 12 years running, over 1000 posts, nearly 200,000 views, and seldom fall farther back than page 2 or 3, and people comment all the time how useful my info is and how helpful everyone on the forum is.

Trouble makers are dispatched quickly......

It is a model of what any hobby forum should be like.

If Kalmbach could get even close to how that is run, it would be an asset that would bring business to their door.

Not trying to be critical of the OP, or anyone else on here, but I remain amazed at the short sighted self involved view that a magazine, or a web site, can somehow always deliver exactly what you are interested in all the time. Or that somehow they are your advocate against the evil hobby industry out to steal your money.

And then this silly notion that the internet is free. 25 years ago I installed electrical switchgear and built a computer server room in a downtown office building that was just a tiny piece of the then up and coming internet. It cost a million dollars, in 1996 dollars.

Somebody pays the electric bills for all these servers, somebody keeps them running, somebody builds the satilites, the towers, runs the fiber optic cables, and writes the software that makes it all talk to each other - the money comes from somewhere - and we are paying.

The only choice is are the costs shown to us upfront, or hidden in increaded prices of other things we buy?

I'm happy to pay my Photobucket membership up front rather than thru the back door of other things I buy.

And I happy to buy from Kalmbach the products that interest me to support their entire operational platform.

And one other thing. I don't have enough interest in current railroading to subscribe to Trains magazine, but if I get the all in thing on the website, I will be able to look at it electronicly, then I might take a look now and then. That may well be worth the few extra dollars.

We all have budgets. Travis says he can only afford one magazine, OK, I was young once too.

I get five magazines, two are build into memberships, the NMRA and the GTCOA.

The other three I happily pay for - MR, RMC and the Old House Journal.

If I can afford these hobbies, I can afford these subscriptions.

BUT, I will admit, my lifestyle likely lacks a LOT of things others consider normal or necessary. I have NEVER taken a vacation with a five figure price tag. I have only taken a few with serious four figure price tags. I don't eat meals in resturants with three figure checks for two people.......

The point is I choose to aford model trains on my own terms.

I have several simple mottos, one is "I was once well rounded until I learned what I really like" - and I am focused on what I like.

And I don't spend time looking for something to be wrong with everything..... I look for what is right about things.

Sheldon

 

    

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, February 3, 2022 5:40 PM

Steven Otte
 
As for the Forums, they bring us practically no revenue. I personally don't know why we continue to host them; they're definitely money-losers for Kalmbach. 
 

When I read this from the Forum Administrator, I conclude that there is little, if any, hope for the long-term future of this forum. At the risk of overstating things, it is sorta like Roger Goodell saying that he doesn't know why we even have an NFL. 
 
Steven Otte
 

We also did a survey a number of years back asking what proportion of Forum users subscribe to any of our magazines, and it was a disappointingly low percentage. You, personally, the one reading this post right now, may be an exception, I don't know. But the vast majority of Forum users don't do a thing to support this company whose products and services you all claim to enjoy so much.  

Ouch!

When I got into HO scale back in January 2004, I did so almost exclusively because of a chance visit to my LHS. The owner and his sidekick took a liking to me for some reason and decided to tutor me on the essentials, and later the fine points, of model railroading. I owe most of what I know today to those two guys.

In September of that year, the owner suggested that I register to become a member of this forum, and I did so. At the time, I had never even heard of Kalmbach, had no reason to do so. But the LHS had a magazine and book rack that I starting browsing, and I picked up my first issues of Model Railroader, Classic Trains, and Trains magazine. I soon became a subscriber to all three magazines. I also started buying Kalmbach books, and today I own about two dozen of them.

Until the past few years or so, I have never really associated the forum with a need to support Kalmbach. I guess that I just have taken the forum for granted. I used to belong to the Atlas forum as well, and for truly technical assistance, I am also a member of the NCE-DCC forum and the Wiring for DCC forum. None of those forums charge a fee to be a member, so I never thought about this forum being fee based. But, now, I really begin to wonder about this whole issue.

I don't mean to be harsh, but what is it that Kalmbach wants from us? Fees? Mandatory subscriptions? Maybe that is not such a bad idea. If you want to be a member of this forum, you must subscribe to Model Railroader magazine. If you want to be a member of the Classic Trains forum, you must subscribe to Classic Trains magazine. Would that be enough?

I will close with this. I am willing to abide by the above terms. I might even be willing to pay an annual forum fee in addition. But, in return, give me a workable forum software. And, as a dues paying member, so to speak, give me a voice in who inhabits this forum.

Over the 17+ plus years that I have been a member of this forum, there has always seemed to be one guy, someone different every year or so, who disrupts the forum, spreads misinformation, and generally enjoys being a nuisance. Fortunately, those few come and go. But, can we as dues paying members enjoy the company of only those who actually love and respect this hobby?

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by selector on Thursday, February 3, 2022 4:04 PM

I'll pop in to offer a comment that I hope won't be taken as patronizing....I'm genuinely grateful to see people commenting who essentially never do.  It's good to hear from you.  I also appreciate the collegial tone and frankness that has given this thread its legs and its value.  

I recall that Andy Sperandeo used to pop in regularly and comment.  I think that was like photo-bombing, almost never unwelcome, and usually very informative if not corrective.  I agree that there could be more of that from our silent hosts, Steven excepted. 

Thanks, everyone. This could be a highly useful thread if we keep it up and try to find a consensus that our hosts can use looking forward.

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Posted by whitroth on Thursday, February 3, 2022 3:40 PM

I've been a subscriber for a long time, but most of my interest is in the layout pictures. When my subscription runs out the end of this year, though, I'm going to go online only, given that I'm in a split-level house, and I have no more room for bookcases, much less many feet of shelf space for the paper Model RR.

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Thursday, February 3, 2022 3:20 PM

Steven Otte

 

 
ATLANTIC CENTRAL

I would just like to see one thing - a good working search index for the archive.

 

 

https://rrmagazineindex.org/

 

Thank you! I did not know anything like that was back up and running!

Sheldon

    

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Posted by Steven Otte on Thursday, February 3, 2022 3:04 PM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

I would just like to see one thing - a good working search index for the archive.

https://rrmagazineindex.org/

--
Steven Otte, Model Railroader senior associate editor
sotte@kalmbach.com

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, February 3, 2022 2:59 PM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL
In fact, the only ads on this site that I find a little annoying, are the popups from the bottom of the screen.

Yes 

ATLANTIC CENTRAL
The page banner ads, the side bar ads, don't bother me at all. But mostly I am looking at this page on a 24" desktop monitor, not phone......

Yes Yes 

ATLANTIC CENTRAL
MR is much better now than it was just a few years ago.

Yes Yes Yes 

ATLANTIC CENTRAL
I would just like to see one thing - a good working search index for the archive.

Yes Yes Yes Yes 

Thank you for another great post Sheldon.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Thursday, February 3, 2022 2:57 PM

Steven Otte

 

 
rrebell

They kinda killed the contribute thing years ago, have you ever tried to submit stuff? Also they used to file stuff they liked but would not give a clue if they would ever use it and wanted to basicaly own the content even if you don't get paid till it is published. Now maybe those rules have changed, anyone try to submit lately?

 

 

I'm willing to let opinions go by, including those I disagree with, even if I think those opinions are uninformed. But when people state falsehoods, I feel the need to correct the record.

Model Railroader has, for as long as I've worked there (and likely for a long time before), paid for articles on acceptance. That means we pay the contributor as soon as we decide we want the article, even though we don't know when it will be published, even if it never gets published. (The exception is Trackside Photos, which are paid upon publication.) In my experience, that's very unusual in the periodical publication business. 

As for the Forums, they bring us practically no revenue. I personally don't know why we continue to host them; they're definitely money-losers for Kalmbach. If you think the ads support the cost, ask yourself: Do you ever see ads on the Forums, or are you using an ad blocker? What proportion of people who come to the Forums do you think use ad blockers? Look at any of the many threads that have been posted over the years complaining about some ad or another, and see how many replies are from people claiming some kind of intellectual superiority over the OP because they're smart enough to use an ad blocker, and you'll have your answer. People are actually proud of it.

We also did a survey a number of years back asking what proportion of Forum users subscribe to any of our magazines, and it was a disappointingly low percentage. You, personally, the one reading this post right now, may be an exception, I don't know. But the vast majority of Forum users don't do a thing to support this company whose products and services you all claim to enjoy so much. 

 

Well said Steven.

As a 50 plus year MR subscriber (and I still have them all to prove it), and a Classic Trains subscriber, I will offer a few more thoughts.

I will just say, as it relates to me, I don't bother with any ad blocker software, I don't spend enough time on the web, on the kind of sites that have ads, to worry about it. In fact, the only ads on this site that I find a little annoying, are the popups from the bottom of the screen.

The page banner ads, the side bar ads, don't bother me at all. But mostly I am looking at this page on a 24" desktop monitor, not phone......

As I commented earlier, I feel that MR is much better now than it was just a few years ago. Slim, leaner, but better content, less "fluff" content.

AGAIN, I would pay for a forum with better software and picture hosting. I don't need free picture hosting, it is just easier as the user. And I would pay a small fee for that even as I am spending less time on here.

While others are complaining about the new website and the changes, and complaining about the magazines, I am seriously considering the full subscription to the new website.

I would just like to see one thing - a good working search index for the archive.

Anybody, who as ever paid someone to work on a computer, should understand there is NOTHING free abou the internet.......

Sheldon

 

    

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
  • 18,255 posts
Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, February 3, 2022 2:55 PM

josephbw
The simple reason was the price increase was in direct proportion to less content in the magazine.

I do not mean any disrespect to our host with this comment...

The two best hobby magazines I subscribe to are Tamiya Model Magazine International and Wargames Illustrated.

They are also both owned by hobby manufacturers. Tamiya obviously for TMMI, and Battlefront Miniatures for WI.

Both of these magazines are about the size of Model Railroader and cost over $100.00 per year for subscriptions. They have fewer ads and better articles, but they are subscriber funded, not advertisement funded.

That is the other option. Model Railroader is a bargain by comparission.

I wish Kalmbach published a Tabletop Wargaming magazine.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

  • Member since
    May 2010
  • From: SE. WI.
  • 8,253 posts
Posted by mbinsewi on Thursday, February 3, 2022 2:53 PM

Wow, what a thread!

I renewed, print and archives combo.  I have no problems with it. 

I did let a couple of other mags go, but at the same time, I joined 2 historical associations, the SOO and the MILW.  Both are great resources.

Mike.

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
  • 18,255 posts
Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, February 3, 2022 2:47 PM

Steven Otte
I personally don't know why we continue to host them; they're definitely money-losers for Kalmbach.

An internet search for virually any model railroading how-to question leads to these forums for answers, even if it is a very old thread.

That has to have value for Kalmbach for getting new people to your web site and exposed to your products.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
  • 18,255 posts
Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, February 3, 2022 2:41 PM

Steven Otte
As for the Forums, they bring us practically no revenue.

Is there a way they could generate revenue?

Personally, I believe more participation from the Model Railroader editorial staff would attract far more participants. You guys are like the rock stars of the Model Train world.

One post a day from each of the editors would certainly be something people would drop by and see. Even if it is just a simple comment like "Good job on that scene", or "Nice of you to share that advice" would sure drive interest.

My previous employer required everyone in the public eye to post once per day on the public forums, and it did drive a lot of visits to the forums.

Your diminished presence is noticed and you have been missed. I cannot remember the last time Eric stopped in.

I subscribe to MR, CT, and FSM. I do not use adblocker.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

Moderator
  • Member since
    May 2009
  • From: Waukesha, WI
  • 1,764 posts
Posted by Steven Otte on Thursday, February 3, 2022 2:34 PM

rrebell

They kinda killed the contribute thing years ago, have you ever tried to submit stuff? Also they used to file stuff they liked but would not give a clue if they would ever use it and wanted to basicaly own the content even if you don't get paid till it is published. Now maybe those rules have changed, anyone try to submit lately?

I'm willing to let opinions go by, including those I disagree with, even if I think those opinions are uninformed. But when people state falsehoods, I feel the need to correct the record.

Model Railroader has, for as long as I've worked there (and likely for a long time before), paid for articles on acceptance. That means we pay the contributor as soon as we decide we want the article, even though we don't know when it will be published, even if it never gets published. (The exception is Trackside Photos, which are paid upon publication.) In my experience, that's very unusual in the periodical publication business. 

As for the Forums, they bring us practically no revenue. I personally don't know why we continue to host them; they're definitely money-losers for Kalmbach. If you think the ads support the cost, ask yourself: Do you ever see ads on the Forums, or are you using an ad blocker? What proportion of people who come to the Forums do you think use ad blockers? Look at any of the many threads that have been posted over the years complaining about some ad or another, and see how many replies are from people claiming some kind of intellectual superiority over the OP because they're smart enough to use an ad blocker, and you'll have your answer. People are actually proud of it.

We also did a survey a number of years back asking what proportion of Forum users subscribe to any of our magazines, and it was a disappointingly low percentage. You, personally, the one reading this post right now, may be an exception, I don't know. But the vast majority of Forum users don't do a thing to support this company whose products and services you all claim to enjoy so much. 

--
Steven Otte, Model Railroader senior associate editor
sotte@kalmbach.com

  • Member since
    October 2020
  • 3,604 posts
Posted by NorthBrit on Thursday, February 3, 2022 12:42 PM

This is where we come to the crux of the problem.   No matter how it is put does the magazine provide what we want?

  If it doesn't then we unsubscribe.    If  it does then we carry on.

If it does not,  others that do will be found.

 

Model railroading is forever changing.   In days  gone a lot was done by scratchbuilding.   An art that is fast disappearing.

Some modelers want everything 'on a plate'  and Manufacturers are catering for them?  (At least here in the U.K..)    Days gone a model railroad store wouild have one type of locomotive,  the purchaser would renumbe/rename it.   Now there are eight, nine, or ten of the same locomotive.   Many stores have closed because of the enormous outlay.

 

Model railroading magazine owners must change their ideas as well.  For me to have anything published (in most cases)  I have to use 1980s  technology? 

 

David

 

To the world you are someone.    To someone you are the world

I cannot afford the luxury of a negative thought

  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Culpeper, Va
  • 8,204 posts
Posted by IRONROOSTER on Thursday, February 3, 2022 11:50 AM

I have subscribed to MR and RMC for almost 50 years.  I enjoy both and will continue to subscribe to both.  While the articles don't always apply to what I am doing currently, I am always interested in what is going on in the hobby.

I also have belonged to the NMRA since 1972.  I think their standards are the most important thing they do.  Without them I think the hobby would greatly diminish - not go away, just be fewer hobbyists and products.

Paul

If you're having fun, you're doing it the right way.
  • Member since
    June 2014
  • From: Ohio
  • 231 posts
Posted by josephbw on Thursday, February 3, 2022 11:41 AM

Last year I said I was going to let my subscription expire with my December issue, and that's what I did. The simple reason was the price increase was in direct proportion to less content in the magazine.

I still stop by here once in a while.

Joe

  • Member since
    April 2018
  • From: Northern NY (Think Upstate but even more)
  • 1,306 posts
Posted by Harrison on Thursday, February 3, 2022 11:31 AM

rrebell

 

 
York1

As far as the amount of content in MR, I know that a while back Stephen Otte said they needed modelers to contribute.  It's not a simple process, so some of us probably back off when thinking of content we can submit.

Some people have the mistaken belief that Kalmbach is a massive operation, taking up floors of some building somewhere, with rich publishing families owning the company.

They, like most magazines today, are running on a very slim profit margin, and they have editors who are working three or four different jobs to keep things going.

The alternative is no magazine, which I would find unacceptable.

My two cents:  I hope everyone renews their subscription, and I hope that when you're through with the magazine, if you don't want to keep it, give it to an interested person.  They may become interested, subscribe themselves, and that helps everyone.

 

 

 

They kinda killed the contribute thing years ago, have you ever tried to submit stuff? Also they used to file stuff they liked but would not give a clue if they would ever use it and wanted to basicaly own the content even if you don't get paid till it is published. Now maybe those rules have changed, anyone try to submit lately?

 

 

I have sent several emails expressing interest in articles that, while may take more work to polish and finish than other, more experienced contributors, would've made good articles. Half of my emails were "not delivered", and the other half I received no response about. I've given up, at least I know RMC and MRH will at least respond to me. 

Harrison

Homeschooler living In upstate NY a.k.a Northern NY.

Modeling the D&H in 1978.

Route of the famous "Montreal Limited"

My YouTube

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