I have an HO Proto 1000 F3 A&B unit set that I recently got serviced. It will run a little bit and then the wheels will apparently start slipping. I am trying to run it slowly. When it stops, and I increase the speed, I can hear the motor speeding up, but it stays in place. This does not occur in uniform places on the track, so I do not think it is a track issue. It also occurs in both forward and reverse.
Do you think there is a part that needs to be replaced?
Shock Control I have an HO Proto 1000 F3 A&B unit set that I recently got serviced. It will run a little bit and then the wheels will apparently start slipping. I am trying to run it slowly. When it stops, and I increase the speed, I can hear the motor speeding up, but it stays in place. This does not occur in uniform places on the track, so I do not think it is a track issue. It also occurs in both forward and reverse. Do you think there is a part that needs to be replaced?
What kind of service was done? Maybe that will point us in the right direction.
Is it both the A and B unit? Can you run them separately to see if they both do it? Are they pulling anything?
Does it make a clicking or clunking noise? These units were notorious from cracked gears, so that's a possibility.
You have to take the shells off and watch to see what's going on under the hood, so to speak.
Gary
Thanks, and duh, I should have tested them separately before posting. The B unit is running fine. The A is stopping and starting. The slippage was the B trying to push the A while it was stalled.
I don't have a permanent layout right now, but I do a fairly elaborate winter layout under the tree each year. The engines have been in my closet since January, and I took them in for routine cleaning and lubrication.
I have had these for several years. They typically run great.
Check the A unit wheels, if you can easily rotate the wheels with your thumb the axle gears need to be replaced.I use Athearn ATH60024 gears stocked at my LHS. Make sure you gauge the wheels properly after replacing the gears.Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California Turned 84 in July, aging is definitely not for wimps.
Yup! Definitely sounds like a split gear issue. You might be wise to order enough replacement gears to do both locomotives, as many of the Proto locos developed that problem...the B-unit might be next.
Wayne
Thanks all! The A unit wheels do not rotate easily. But if you think the gears are the issue, I will order some.
I have an F7 A unit from Athearn, and another Proto 1000 F3 A unit of another railroad. To get me through the holidays, I will run either the Athearn, or switch shells on the Protos.
Honestly, I'd make sure the wheels are clean. The A-unit may be stalling from dirty wheels, not bad gears. CHeck that first.
garyaHonestly, I'd make sure the wheels are clean. The A-unit may be stalling from dirty wheels, not bad gears. CHeck that first.
Will 99% isopropyl on a Q-tip work?
Shock Control garya Honestly, I'd make sure the wheels are clean. The A-unit may be stalling from dirty wheels, not bad gears. CHeck that first. Will 99% isopropyl on a Q-tip work?
garya Honestly, I'd make sure the wheels are clean. The A-unit may be stalling from dirty wheels, not bad gears. CHeck that first.
Sure. if you can get power to turn the wheels it's even better.
I put my loco on some spare track with power leads, dampen a paper towel with isopropyl or denatured alcohol, place it on the track, put one truck on the towel, hold the loco, and apply power. The wheels will spin themselves clean. I turn it around to get the other truck clean.
This guy uses Goo Gone, but basically the same.
Shock ControlI have had these for several years. They typically run great.
I have several Proto 1000 units, and they run great.
Shock ControlThanks all! The A unit wheels do not rotate easily. But if you think the gears are the issue, I will order some.
I'd take it apart before I started ordering parts. Split gears you can see. It could be gummed up bearings in the driveline, which are easily cleaned with alcohol.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
my first thought is contact issue somewhere in the truck or broke wire. I tend to think if the gear is broke, the b unit would shove it enough for it to grab again. But shock says it completely dies Randomly.
shane
A pessimist sees a dark tunnel
An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel
A realist sees a frieght train
An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space
garyaSure. if you can get power to turn the wheels it's even better. I put my loco on some spare track with power leads, dampen a paper towel with isopropyl or denatured alcohol, place it on the track, put one truck on the towel, hold the loco, and apply power. The wheels will spin themselves clean. I turn it around to get the other truck clean.
Thank you! I just did this and it seems to be pulling the train very evenly. I will run it by itself at slow speeds in forward and reverse just to be sure.
Many thanks!
May as well clean the wheels on the B unit, too. And run the alcohol-dampened towel over the track, too, as long as you're at it.
I use CRC contact cleaner and spray it on both the wheels and a section of track. Then I put the loco on the track and run it at medium speed while holding in lightly in place. Then I reverse the engine and repeat. I do about ten seconds in each direction. When I'm done, I wipe both the track and wheels clean with a paper towel and invariably there is a black streak on it from all the grime that has come off the wheels.
I have a wheel cleaner that essentially does the same thing but I need replacement cleaning pads and haven't gotten around to ordering them.
I think any track cleaner would work but my choice is CRC.
Yes, I did both!
OK, I have one more follow-up question:
Since cleaning the wheels and track, the engines are running much better. When I run the A unit or B unit inividually, they run smoothly and quietly.
When I run them together, they run smoothly, more or less, but every once in a while I hear what I would describe as a "skidding" sound, for lack of a better adjective.
As they run smoothly individually, do you think there may be places on the track where maybe one engine is briefly pushing or pulling the other, due to either subtle changes in track grade or electrical flow?
I am using Bachmann track with the snap-together roadbed, as this is not a permanent layout.
Thanks in advance!
^^^
Any ideas regarding my previous post about the two units running together?
Two engines, even the same model - same builder - are generally not going to run exactly the same. It's quite likely one engine is going to be a little faster than the other, and/or one start moving before the other one.
Try putting the engines on the track, but not coupled together - keep them as far apart as you can. Then run them and see if one eventually catches up with the other one. On DC, it can be difficult to do anything about that difference, but usually if they're close that is good enough to run them together.
wjstixTwo engines, even the same model - same builder - are generally not going to run exactly the same. It's quite likely one engine is going to be a little faster than the other, and/or one start moving before the other one. Try putting the engines on the track, but not coupled together - keep them as far apart as you can. Then run them and see if one eventually catches up with the other one. On DC, it can be difficult to do anything about that difference, but usually if they're close that is good enough to run them together.
Thanks. Would you think that the occasional sound that I'm hearing is related to push/pull, given that the engines do not produce this sound individually?
I'm pondering whether he has a 'borderline' slipping driveline, which runs fine as 'light engine' but that when coupled to something running at a different speed periodically breaks loose and slips.
If it were mine, I'd take the shells off the units and run the two chassis coupled around and around to observe if I could see what was making the reported noise...
OvermodI'm pondering whether he has a 'borderline' slipping driveline, which runs fine as 'light engine' but that when coupled to something running at a different speed periodically breaks loose and slips. If it were mine, I'd take the shells off the units and run the two chassis coupled around and around to observe if I could see what was making the reported noise...
I will try this, thanks!
Shock Control — do you think there may be places on the track where maybe one engine is briefly pushing or pulling the other, due to either subtle changes in track grade or electrical flow? I am using Bachmann track with the snap-together roadbed, as this is not a permanent layout.
Several questions arise from this revelation. How secure are the rail joiners? I've never looked closely at E-Z Track or whatever Bachmann calls it. The Kato, both HO and N, Uni-Track has fairly robust rail joiners.
If your Bachmann temporary track does not have secure joints, continuity will be compromised. Is the track supported well enough? Any movement will flex the rail joints possibly interrupting power.
How many feeders do you have on your loop of track. Try doubling or even quadrupling them.
As the lead engine "bridges" the joint it will briefly energize the rail on either side of the joint. As it leaves, there might be a brief interruption of the rail joint continuity.
Look for suspect loose joints. Anchor (even with tape or other temporary methods) so there is no flex between track sections.
>>> ADD More Feeders! <<<
Good Luck, Ed
gmpullman Several questions arise from this revelation. How secure are the rail joiners? I've never looked closely at E-Z Track or whatever Bachmann calls it. The Kato, both HO and N, Uni-Track has fairly robust rail joiners. If your Bachmann temporary track does not have secure joints, continuity will be compromised. Is the track supported well enough? Any movement will flex the rail joints possibly interrupting power. How many feeders do you have on your loop of track. Try doubling or even quadrupling them. As the lead engine "bridges" the joint it will briefly energize the rail on either side of the joint. As it leaves, there might be a brief interruption of the rail joint continuity. Look for suspect loose joints. Anchor (even with tape or other temporary methods) so there is no flex between track sections. >>> ADD More Feeders! <<< Good Luck, Ed
The individual track pieces all seem to be joined securely.
When you say feeders, I can run an additional wire from the transformer to the terminal track? Can I feed a wire into both connectors on either side of the same piece of terminal track?
Shock ControlWhen you say feeders, I can run an additional wire from the transformer to the terminal track?
I'm saying add more "terminal tracks". Pay attention to maintaining Rail A - B continuity.
If you don't want to buy Bachmann terminal track pieces, I believe Atlas makes rail joiners with wire already attached. These MAY be able to replace the joiner in the E-Z Track sections.
At a minimum add a second feeder about 180° (or about half-way) across from your present one.
gmpullmanI'm saying add more "terminal tracks". Pay attention to maintaining Rail A - B continuity. If you don't want to buy Bachmann terminal track pieces, I believe Atlas makes rail joiners with wire already attached. These MAY be able to replace the joiner in the E-Z Track sections. Good Luck, Ed
OK, but these would be wired to the same two screws on the transformer, correct?
I have several terminal tracks, but only one is wired. I don't know if there is an easy way to identify continuity with the wires that I have. Will I fry an engine if the two terminal tracks are oppositely wired?
Thank you!
Shock Control ^^^ Any ideas regarding my previous post about the two units running together?
My guess is you improved the performance of your A unit with the cleaning but it could use a bit more cleaning. Also you might still have a few dirty spots on your track. Either or both could cause a momentary stall but the B unit pushes the A unit throught the dirty spot and both engines run again. Dirty track, dirty wheels, and inadequate feeders can all contribute to stalling and if you have more than one of the three, your problems will be more frequent. I try to have one feeder to every other rail joiner. I solder the wire to the joiner and the joiner to the outside of the rail. That means ever section of track is getting electricity directly from a feeder wire rather than an adjacent section of track.
John-NYBW My guess is you improved the performance of your A unit with the cleaning but it could use a bit more cleaning. Also you might still have a few dirty spots on your track. Either or both could cause a momentary stall but the B unit pushes the A unit throught the dirty spot and both engines run again. Dirty track, dirty wheels, and inadequate feeders can all contribute to stalling and if you have more than one of the three, your problems will be more frequent. I try to have one feeder to every other rail joiner. I solder the wire to the joiner and the joiner to the outside of the rail. That means ever section of track is getting electricity directly from a feeder wire rather than an adjacent section of track.
Thanks. The track and wheels have been thoroughly cleaned with 99% isopropyl.
I need to run the two engines without their shells to look for any interior visual cues as to what may be the issue.
This is a temporary holiday layout, so a wire from the transformer to the terminal track is how it is powered. I will be happy to try running two wires from the transformer to two terminal tracks, but as there is no way to visually differentiate the two wires in each pair, I wouldn't want to fry an engine if that is a possibility.
Shock ControlThe track and wheels have been thoroughly cleaned with 99% isopropyl.
I wouldn't use 90% (99%?). Use 70%. Some use the 90% as a paint remover. Affects some paints and not others. You don't want to find out the hard way if some of the alcohol sloshes or spills on the model.
Shock ControlWill I fry an engine if the two terminal tracks are oppositely wired?
Good practice is to remove the locomotives while making changes to the wiring.
Shock ControlOK, but these would be wired to the same two screws on the transformer, correct?
Yes, but to avoid trying to cram too many wires under those closely-spaced screws run each pair from the terminal track(s) to a splice or joint where you would join three wires for each rail (do you have wirenuts?) then one pair going to the transformer.
Do you have an ohmmeter or continuity tester? Simple matter to check if you have wires reversed to each terminal track.
Alternately, after joining the wires temporarily, slowly turn up the rheostat on the transformer WITHOUT the engines on the track. If you have them reversed the overload protection will kick in. Switch one pair. You have a 50/50 chance of getting it right.
DC-basic-Wiring by Edmund, on Flickr
Still, you SHOULD be able to see which rail is connected to which plug on the terminal track. Use a red Sharpie pen to mark one rail side of each terminal track and keep them the same all the way back to the transformer screws.
Think it through.
Regards, Ed
maxman I wouldn't use 90% (99%?). Use 70%. Some use the 90% as a paint remover. Affects some paints and not others. You don't want to find out the hard way if some of the alcohol sloshes or spills on the model.
I've been told elsewhere to avoid 70%. I can't win.