Specifically the adjective form, not as a noun.
I do not understand why people insist on calling every model railroading item made more than 10 years ago "Vintage". Just saw an eBay item. "Walthers Trainline Great northern stock car, Vintage!" No it's not! The thing is NIB from a run barely 10 years old. The tyco listings really get me going. Tyco flatcar, vintage!!!!!!! Just stop, please. Your Lionel trainset from 1956? Vintage. Your Bachmann train set from 1996? NOT VINTAGE! So yeah, that's my post.
So, what really grinds your gears in the model railroading world? You might as well get it off your chest.
JJF
Prototypically modeling the Great Northern in Minnesota with just a hint of freelancing.
Yesterday is History.
Tomorrow is a Mystery.
But today is a Gift, that is why it is called the Present.
But Jdawg, if it is an old train, it must be worth big bucks. Especially if it is "vintage".
Trying to find some original railroad memorabilia, I found the word "vintage" meaningless.
On Ebay, even the word "original" doesn't mean what it seems to mean. "Authentic"? Forget that. It may be an original, authentic 1910 sign that was made three years ago.
York1 John
This is what we have come up with this side of the pond -- and what they mean
David
To the world you are someone. To someone you are the world
I cannot afford the luxury of a negative thought
"Vintage" is the most overused word on eBay, with "Rare" 2nd. It's just a way for sellers to add credence for overcharging what they want to sell - both "common" items and garbage.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
It's kinda how Ebay or other sellers work. It's the same with guitars, an electric guitar that when new in 1981 sold for $300 - and was considered a piece of garbage - now sells for $2000 because it's "vintage" and young buyers don't know any better.
JDawg Specifically the adjective form, not as a noun. I do not understand why people insist on calling every model railroading item made more than 10 years ago "Vintage". Just saw an eBay item. "Walthers Trainline Great northern stock car, Vintage!" No it's not! The thing is NIB from a run barely 10 years old. The tyco listings really get me going. Tyco flatcar, vintage!!!!!!! Just stop, please. Your Lionel trainset from 1956? Vintage. Your Bachmann train set from 1996? NOT VINTAGE! So yeah, that's my post. So, what really grinds your gears in the model railroading world? You might as well get it off your chest.
I hear you, but lest I be pointed to the corner for saying it, we are bound to discard terms like female and male. Our language is, in a word, mutable. It is in a constant evolution, and it is being assailed on all fronts, including from the influx of foreign words (that much is not new. English was heavily changed during the Norman Conquest and just afterwards).
Just as our nearest friendly virus is easily changed due to the densities of pockets harbouring it (Canadian spulling), the increasing uses and mixing from zillions posting to fora across the entire internet means all languages are gaining speed in the Great Regression to the Mean. I read a few years ago that an anthropologist answered a question put to him about where the human race was headed. He replied, "Look at the folks in Brazil. We'll all look like that in 150 years."
Want to know what vintage means? Axe a Brazilian.
selectorAxe a Brazilian
Now that's not nice.
Vintage means that it still has its original horn-hooks.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Accually many old items have gone down in value, seems antiques have lost their luster as more and more thing pop out of the woodwork. Brass model trains have dropped in value by half or more for a lot of older stuff, FSM kits are way cheaper than they used to be.
Someone gave me this "vintage" train set from their fathers' Estate. They thought they were doing me a favour. It is not worth enough to spend my time trying to sell yet I can't make myself toss it. The engine is powered by one truck and the transformer sounds like it is about to go critical. It is a real piece of crap.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Yes, a friend of mine came across one of those vintage Lionel set while cleaning out an attic. He thought he had found Bluebeard's treasure hoard. It had an atomic waste car, a helicopter car and a giraffe car. I took it to a show and got $ 20 for it.
good for practicing weathering techniques and painting/masking
SHane
A pessimist sees a dark tunnel
An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel
A realist sees a frieght train
An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space
As far as eBay sellers are concerned, that Rapido SW1200 MRR just reviewed is now old enough to be vintage. A day out of the factory? Wow, so ancient!
Even worse is when things are being sold for too high of a price. I've seen broken AHM C-LINERS listed for over $100 before.
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And on occasion I have seen items sell for outrageous prices and of course real cheap too.
Not restricting myself to model railroading
People who call a railroad herald a "logo"
Banjo music to the accompany any and all train videos - no matter what the location or time period. During the glory years, trains were anything but a rural thing (despite Lucius Beebe and "Mixed Train Daily"), but symbols of industrialization and a way to escape the back woods
Announcers and banjo players on tourist lines - is it too much to ask for one silent coach whose passengers just want to sit back, look at the scenery and enjoy the ride?
Tourist lines who sell their souls with "train robberies", "Arctic Express" and "Thomas" events - I know they bring in money, but once a year, please
I'm sure I have more, but that's enough for now
BEAUSABRE Not restricting myself to model railroading People who call a railroad herald a "logo" Banjo music to the accompany any and all train videos - no matter what the location or time period. During the glory years, trains were anything but a rural thing (despite Lucius Beebe and "Mixed Train Daily"), but symbols of industrialization and a way to escape the back woods Announcers and banjo players on tourist lines - is it too much to ask for one silent coach whose passengers just want to sit back, look at the scenery and enjoy the ride? Tourist lines who sell their souls with "train robberies", "Arctic Express" and "Thomas" events - I know they bring in money, but once a year, please I'm sure I have more, but that's enough for now
One of my favorites on E-Bay was 10 Tyco Couplers for $39.95!
Rick Jesionowski
Rule 1: This is my railroad.
Rule 2: I make the rules.
Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!
rrebell Accually many old items have gone down in value, seems antiques have lost their luster as more and more thing pop out of the woodwork. Brass model trains have dropped in value by half or more for a lot of older stuff, FSM kits are way cheaper than they used to be.
This is true, but for the "non-model train world" the perception is still "old trains = big bucks". My brother-in-law showed me a box of old trains, I said I would sell on Ebay. Gave him $100.00 (and just about broke even). He, however, thinks I make a fortune. The box included first generation Bachman N, an Athearn Blue Box with a bad motor and some other misc. old stuff.
Yeah "vintage" is misused for sure but it is partly the word's fault, or rather it has come to be used for something it does not mean.
Speaking as a model railroader and as a wine drinker (and being unquestionably more skilled at the wine drinking), if I buy a bottle of Veuve Cliquot from 1934 that is unquestionably vintage wine. Agreed? But a wine made this last March and bottled in June is also a vintage wine. Vintage 2021.
The word vintage just means the year produced, so yes all those new-ish trains are "vintage." In common parlance, including in the wine world, vintage has come to mean rare or valuable, with the implication that great age is what gives it rarity and value. But again turning to the wine world, if a wine made in a really great season has come to have value it is "vintage" in the secondary meaning of rarity and value. 2020 is said to be a great year for wine so now 2020 is a precious vintage for collectors.
But age has nothing to do with it.
Sometimes change more than age makes for vintage. High fashion clothes become vintage rather quickly. When Lionel introduced plastic trains around 1946, the older metal ones became vintage immediately. Athearn switched from metal kits to plastic in the 1950s, and I wouldn't quibble over the use of vintage to describe the metal kits almost as soon as the switchover happened. The space of just a couple of years made all the difference.
Dave Nelson
I like this explanation. I am 35 years from being an antique and 45 years into vintage.
What exactly is vintage?
BEAUSABRENot restricting myself to model railroading People who call a railroad herald a "logo"
That one bugs me too.
In TV news stories, 21st century diesels go "chugging" through town while "blowing the whistle"...often pulling a train of "flatbed cars" and "tanker cars".
A herald is a logo. Railroad logos are referred to as heralds, but that doesn't make them not logos.
Trying to find any common definition for terms like antique and vintage is a fool's errand. You know it when you see it and, as much as it reminds us of our own aging, it is a rolling window. A 1976 Corvette Stringray is an antique, as far as the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania is concerned, for instance.
Definition creep seems to have also infected lumber. Luan used to refer to plywood made from tropocal wood from the Philippines. Then the name started to applied to many tropical wood plywoods. Now the term seems be used for any 1/4 inch plywood.
Marketing people.
Sell the sizzle, not the steak.
Snake oil remedies, Madison Avenue "spin doctors".
Remember, only Certs has Retsin! (why? because we made up the name retsin).
1946 ... smoking tastes of doctors! by James Vaughan, on Flickr
Hype sells.
[edit] I just finished an article about people who spent $825 on a Chanel "Limited Edition" Advent calendar with goodies behind each compartment. Oh Boy! Stickers!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q98aB2tRl3A
Regards, Ed
I got fooled on ebay and I have no one to blame but myself. I failed to read the listing closely. I was looking for the Walthers doodlebug that was discontinued a few years ago. I saw a number of listings and opted for one that was selling one complete bug and one shell. I figured it might be good for spare parts. When I opened the box my first thought was it was the Bachmann bug which is much longer than the Walthers bug. On closer inspection I could tell it was much heavier than the Bachmann bug. The body is made of metal. I went back to ebay to check out the listing and it had the word VINTAGE plain as day. I don't know how old these are but I don't remember seeing Walthers offer this doodlebug so I'm guessing it's pre-1980, maybe older. They weren't terribly expensive so it was a fairly cheap lesson. From now on I'm going to read the ebay listings much more carefully.
When you say, "metal" do you mean brass or something like zamac? I know Suydam imported a Brill Gas-Electric in the Paleolithic Age of The Hobby and Hallmark imported one in the Neolithic Era. Sounds like it really is "Vintage". Could you post a picture so we may marvel at this beast from a by gone time?
"It's like a relic from a different age, Could be, Oooh-eee"
"
BEAUSABRE When you say, "metal" do you mean brass or something like zamac? I know Suydam imported a Brill Gas-Electric in the Paleolithic Age of The Hobby and Hallmark imported one in the Neolithic Era. Sounds like it really is "Vintage". Could you post a picture so we may marvel at this beast from a by gone time? "It's like a relic from a different age, Could be, Oooh-eee" "
walthers doodlebug vintage in Toys and Hobbies | eBay
My purchase is the one on November 22. Definitely not brass. Looks to be the type of metal used on those small Woodland Scenics structures if you are familiar with those. It is somewhat flexible in that I can squeeze the sides but not malleable like lead.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Walthers made wood-and-metal "craftsman kit" passenger cars - including as I recall a 'doodlebug' - from maybe the 1930s to at least the late seventies / early eighties. Looks like that's what the Ebayer was selling and describing. That someone assumed they meant the more recent Walthers plastic doodlebug isn't the seller's fault.
NittanyLionA herald is a logo. Railroad logos are referred to as heralds, but that doesn't make them not logos.
However, the symbols railroads use have been called 'heralds' for maybe a century or more. It's only been the last decade or so that people (mostly younger/new-to-the-hobby people) have called them 'logos'.