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Scale Lumber And Siding Questions

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Monday, October 25, 2021 10:28 AM

The order of scale stripwood and siding has arrived. I am 100% positive I have enough for several projects, and 99% sure I will have all the supplies on hand I will need for the rest of my life.

I ordered 25 8" clear tubes and red end caps from U-Line to store the stripwood.

I rigged up a makeshift chopper to cut the stripwood into eight inch lengths that would fit in the tube. It took about a hour to cutup all the stripwood pieces.

The plastic tubes are perfect for me to hold the stripwood. They do not take up too much space, provide good protection, and they can be tossed into a drawer when they are not being used.

I want to again thank everyone that helped out with information so I could make a good purchase. One more lifetime supply can be checked off of the list.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Monday, October 25, 2021 10:28 AM

drgwcs
To stain I use stain markers- there are two types one more like a paint pen and one more like a marker. I use the marker types- I had gotten some at Home Depot and Dollar Tree. Quite easy- non warping and quick drying.

I have used the Minwax stain pens on some wooden building projects with excellent results.

-Kevin

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Posted by drgwcs on Saturday, October 23, 2021 7:00 PM

To stain I use stain markers- there are two types one more like a paint pen and one more like a marker. I use the marker types- I had gotten some at Home Depot and Dollar Tree. Quite easy- non warping and quick drying.

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Friday, October 22, 2021 4:17 AM

HO-Velo
The late Harold Minkwitz's website is still up and contains a wealth of info. about making styrene look like wood. www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com

I loved his stuff. It inspired me when I was starting out. 

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Friday, October 22, 2021 1:54 AM

trainnut1250
I’m sure others have methods that have worked well for them over the years – just some ideas for you to consider.

Guy, Thank you for all of that information and ideas. There was a lot there.

Your post really could be its own thread. I appreciate you taking time to share it all.

-Kevin

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Posted by trainnut1250 on Wednesday, October 20, 2021 5:58 PM

Kevin,

A few ideas about using wood to build models:

Storage: Here are three classic storage methods ..

Method one is to hang the plastic bags on a rack like you see them at the LHS (what’s that?). Advantage is not having to process the wood when you buy – just hang it up. Drawback is the space it takes up in the modeling area.

Method two: Store it in a box rack: Advantage easy to find items. Drawback: having to process wood and cut it up to store it – also means no long pieces.

 

Method three: Store it in a pull-out drawer in tubes. This drawer is vertical and leans out from under the counter when you pull the handle.: Advantage very easy to access Drawback: having to process wood and cut it up to store it – also means no long pieces.

 

Cutting exact lengths quickly: Next thing to consider is chopping lots of pieces exactly the same length. You will do lots of this in board-by-board construction and for items like flat car decks and loading dock decks.

Low budget method: glue a stop block square on a cutting surface and then mark the cutting point on the surface. Slide the wood snug to the block and cut at the mark easy and cheap but a bit tedious for lots of pieces.

 

More Expensive – buy the NWSL chopper. Mine is beat and still works great.

 

Dealing with loose ends and left overs:  You will soon end up with a pile of odds and ends such as the drawer below. I have several boxes as well as this drawer. I don’t spend huge amounts of time sorting through for multiples (life is too short) but it is nice when you just need a single piece and don’t want to cut a long strip.

 

 

Weathering: Staining wood to create weathered wood effects: You might want to use weathering solutions to create weathered wood items such as car decks etc.

Solutions and containers: I use a couple of big bottles (for larger pieces) to stain the strips. The pipe contraption is for staining very long pieces for bridges and other models where I want long weathered pieces.

 

The box lid is for drying out stained pieces along with my dedicated staining fork for fishing pieces out of the bottles (thrift store item)

I’m sure others have methods that have worked well for them over the years – just some ideas for you to consider.

 

Guy

see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Wednesday, October 20, 2021 10:31 AM

Southgate
This thread has been an education

Yes it has. I have been very happy with how this thread has developed. I learned a lot, and I think I ordered the right materials for my future projects.

Southgate 2
Kevin, in that inventory, are those individual strips of scale stick lumber, or packages? 

They are individual strips 24 inches long. When they arrive I will cut them into 8 inch long pieces and store them in PVC pipes. I have found this to be an easy system that keeps the pieces seperated and easy to access. It also prevents damage.

If I ever need strips longer than 8 inches I will be out of luck.

ATLANTIC CENTRAL
If you really want something that looks like a railroad caboose, there are other choices. I will post some choices later.

No need for any more information. The caboose project is at least two years away, and my wife might change her mind before then.

Thank you for all the information.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Wednesday, October 20, 2021 6:24 AM

Kevin,

I am very familiar with the fiber cement 4x8 sheets you are referring to. They are simply a fiber cement replacement for T-111 plywood siding, which is intended to look like rustic barn siding.

We use lots of fiber cement clapboard siding made by that same company, James Hardie. We use the smooth version of their fiber cement clapboard. It too is very good for storm environments.

If you really want something that looks like a railroad caboose, there are other choices. I will post some choices later.

Sheldon 

    

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Posted by Southgate 2 on Wednesday, October 20, 2021 1:37 AM

Um, Hi back, Dan.Whistling (Can't post pix from the phone...)

I showed my wife that house too. We both love the colors. 

Kevin, in that inventory, are those individual strips of scale stick lumber, or packages? 

Just for kicks, how about combining styrene and wood? This is a WIP I'm on currently. Kind of an experiment. It uses the strength of a styrene structure, rock solid, with the detail and texture of Northeastern and other woods.  I use Gorrilla clear glue to lam the wood sheathing onto the styrene. Not the glue you have to wet.

   

   

Here's an angle shot of the real structure, a fuzzy picture of a fuzzy picture:  

   

And that area on the model so far:  

   

The plywood sheets on that one extension are just 1/32 scribed sheet turned backwards, plain side out.  I don't know that I'll repeat this technique. It's super strong, yes. But what forces will be wrought upon it on the layout, right? Dan

 

 

 

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Posted by Southgate on Wednesday, October 20, 2021 12:53 AM

This thread has been an education. Sheldon, you certainly know how to substantiate your points, both about grain and lap siding. In my first reply I said i thought 1/8 clapboard looks good. Now I can see it is out of scale, at least for milled lumber in HO. We had a house in Coos Bay, OR, that had about 10 inch lap siding, but I know it was plywood. No grain showed on that either by the way.

Off topic now, I logged in by accident under my original Southgate--not 2-- on my phone,  something I couldn't do to save my life a few months ago.(note crane in avatar on this post). Tried to log out on my computer from S'2. It won't let me. It's wierd to be logged in as Southgate 2 on the 'puter, and see ol' Southgate on there too! (Hi Dan) hmm. I have 2 accounts.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Tuesday, October 19, 2021 10:31 PM

Thank you!

I appreciate all the help I received putting this parts list together.

I have placed the order with Northeastern.

I ordered:

1/16 clapboard: 4 pieces

3/32 clapbaord: 3 pieces

1/8 clapboard: 1 piece

3/64 scribed: 2 pieces

1/16 scribed: 2 pieces

3/32 scribed: 1 piece

1/8 scribed: 1 piece

1/8 beaded: 1 piece

3/16 board & batten: 1 piece

Lots of stripwood:

20 10 x 10s

30 8 x 8s

30 6 x 6s

30 4 x 4s

20 4 x 6s

20 4 x 8s

10 2 x 12s

20 2 x 10s

20 2 x 8s

20 2 x 6s

40 2 x 4s

30 2 x 2s

6 corner posts

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Tuesday, October 19, 2021 10:25 PM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL
Kevin, what does "looks like wood " mean?

ATLANTIC CENTRAL
Molded in wood grain is what looks fake.

That describes the product best... molded in wood grain and it looks fake. I don't know exactly what it is called, but it is "fiber cement", comes in 4 by 8 sheets, and is supposed to be immune to insects, water, and will stand up to a hurricane.

But, as I said, it looks terrible.

My backyard caboose will be a fakey looking nightmare, but it might be where I take shelter in the next CAT-3 storm!

ATLANTIC CENTRAL
Here are some photos of the 1904 house we are currently working on.

That is a very cute house. I showed it to my wife and she loved it.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Tuesday, October 19, 2021 7:47 PM

Here are some photos of the 1904 house we are currently working on. We are doing minor repairs and repainting. We have been working on this house off and on since 1999. Originally we did a major restoration but the home owners did some of the work themselves.

So, do you see any wood grain? Tell me what items on the exterior are original, what has been replaced with wood, and what has been replaced with PVC lumber?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sheldon

    

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Tuesday, October 19, 2021 1:16 PM

Kevin, what does "looks like wood " mean? We use Azek and other brands of PVC "lumber" all the time. Once it is painted it looks like wood. Because finished wood siding and trim is perfectly smooth and so is PVC trim.

Molded in wood grain is what looks fake. I am repainting a 120 year old house right now, with largely its original trim and siding, I can't see any wood grain, and you can't tell the places where we have used modern PVC lumber on this house from the original materials.

I will post some pictures later.

We build all sorts of traditional detailed porches, siding and trim from modern synthetics all the time. Looks just like wood when we are done. No fake wood grain.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Tuesday, October 19, 2021 10:32 AM

drgwcs
Sometimes you have to look at what you are modeling too to compare. I am a little divided as to which is better to use for clapboard styrene or wood. I have both and if I am going for a better maintained look I use the styrene- more weathered I use the wood- Northwestern makes a neat more weatered/ distressed clapboard too.

I use the exact same approach with wood and styrene for scratchbuilding. Thank you for all of your input.

ATLANTIC CENTRAL
In our business, we hate the fake woodgrain look on anything and strongly discourage our customers from such products.

When I ("finally") build my backyard caboose/shed, I am going to use an engineered product that looks like wood for the entire extrerior. This is supposed to be more durable and able to withstands tropical storms.

HO-Velo
Used Northeastern Scale Lumber Products to construct my HO cannery/wharf scene, including 1/16" spaced clapboard siding.

Wow... now that is the look I will be going for with my wooden scratch-builds.

HO-Velo
The late Harold Minkwitz's website is still up and contains a wealth of info. about making styrene look like wood.

Thanks for the link Peter. That was full of great information.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by HO-Velo on Monday, October 18, 2021 9:55 PM

Thanks for the kind words John, much appreciated.

A note on styrene lumber:  The late Harold Minkwitz's website is still up and contains a wealth of info. about making styrene look like wood. www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com

Regards, Peter 

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Posted by York1 on Monday, October 18, 2021 1:46 PM

As always, Peter, amazingly realistic work!  You, Wayneand several others on this forum are an inspiration to us amateurs to keep working on improving our skills.

York1 John       

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Posted by HO-Velo on Monday, October 18, 2021 12:45 PM

Used Northeastern Scale Lumber Products to construct my HO cannery/wharf scene, including 1/16" spaced clapboard siding.

Regards, Peter

 

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Monday, October 18, 2021 11:08 AM

Good point about the look/texture. When new and painted, or even just well maintained for 100 years, clapboard siding is perfectly smooth.

In our business, we hate the fake woodgrain look on anything and strongly discourage our customers from such products.

Cedar shingles are about the only traditional building material intended to show some grain, and in fact even those are baby butt smooth in the versions used for decorative fancy cut painted treatments on Victorian era homes.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by drgwcs on Monday, October 18, 2021 9:29 AM

I understand about lifetime supply- I bought a bunch of stripwood in a deal and I am not sure if I will ever use it all- but I have a stamp mill that is on my to-do list that should exhaust a good portion of it. I organize it in a 5 gallon bucket that has a insert below to keep things straight- I drilled holes in the lid with a paddle bit. (It the midst of this operation our younger son about 12 at the time walks out sees me doing this turns around and announces to my wife "Dad's lost it- he's drilling holes in a bucket") I did a similar 2 gallon bucket to do evergreen styrene strips. I leave them in their original sleaves.

I think that Atlantic Central's accessment is pretty close. Sometimes you have to look at what you are modeling too to compare. I am a little divided as to which is better to use for clapboard styrene or wood. I have both and if I am going for a better maintained look I use the styrene- more weathered I use the wood- Northwestern makes a neat more weatered/ distressed clapboard too. This street is a mix of the two. The tan storefront and the white hotel on the end are styrene. The slanted roof duplex in between them is wood. (The brick Gilpin hotel and the one next to it are kitbashes) Styrene tends to be a bit stronger for low relief buildings. Sometimes for me it is a mood issue- what do I feel like working with? As an aside you never know what strange scratchbuilding supplies you will find- the stations "stone" is textured scrapbooking paper.

 

 

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Monday, October 18, 2021 7:20 AM

York1
Windows are the worst part of scratchbuilding for me.  It's the cutting the openings that takes me so long and is difficult for me.

Me too. That is why I have no plans to scratchbuild any large structures.

Colorado Ray
Those styrene planks are amazing.  Worthy of an article on how you did it,

I agree.

ATLANTIC CENTRAL
In 1890, or 1910, most clapboard buildings would have had a siding exposure of 4" to 6" max, or about .069" max for HO scale. By the late 1920's as housing styles changed, exposures increased into the 7" to 8" range. Craftsman and Colonial Revival styles of the first half of the 20th Century would have been mostly the larger 7" to 8" exposures, but other styles of houses were still built using the smaller exposures. Modern vinyl siding is often sized to simulate older styles of siding and is often around 5" exposure, but 8" exposure products do exist. In my view, as a trained architectural design professional, and a restoration consultant, 1/8" is way too big for HO siding. 1/16' would be a better general size for HO, scaling out to about 5-1/2".

THANK YOU!

This is exactly what I needed to know about clapboard construction. We have no clapboard buildings down here, just a few with vinyl siding.

A appreciate the time you took to write this description for me.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Monday, October 18, 2021 7:16 AM

doctorwayne
While I realise that not all Forum members are fond of an excess of photos,

I love seeing pictures of your layout.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Sunday, October 17, 2021 10:03 PM

Kevin,

In 1890, or 1910, most clapboard buildings would have had a siding exposure of 4" to 6" max, or about .069" max for HO scale.

By the late 1920's as housing styles changed, exposures increased into the 7" to 8" range.

Craftsman and Colonial Revival styles of the first half of the 20th Century would have been mostly the larger 7" to 8" exposures, but other styles of houses were still built using the smaller exposures.

Modern vinyl siding is often sized to simulate older styles of siding and is often around 5" exposure, but 8" exposure products do exist.

In my view, as a trained architectural design professional, and a restoration consultant, 1/8" is way too big for HO siding. 1/16' would be a better general size for HO, scaling out to about 5-1/2".

As for the current products available, I have not kept up. I guess when I get to that on the new layout, I will be searching too.

Sheldon  

    

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Posted by Colorado Ray on Sunday, October 17, 2021 5:09 PM

Those styrene planks are amazing.  Worthy of an article on how you did it,

 

Ray

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Posted by NorthBrit on Sunday, October 17, 2021 7:29 AM

York1

Wayne, I don't think anyone will complain about the photos of your amazing work.

 

I agree.  Excellent modelling by  Wayne.

 

David

To the world you are someone.    To someone you are the world

I cannot afford the luxury of a negative thought

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Posted by York1 on Sunday, October 17, 2021 7:21 AM

Wayne, I don't think anyone will complain about the photos of your amazing work.

I am using N Scale, and I scratch build most of my structures from styrene.

I'm commenting because the last structure you show has so many windows.  Windows are the worst part of scratchbuilding for me.  It's the cutting the openings that takes me so long and is difficult for me.

Great work.

York1 John       

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Posted by doctorwayne on Sunday, October 17, 2021 12:21 AM

doctorwayne
..some other photos are still missing, too.

These pictures are ones that I thought to be most demonstrative...this elevator may have been used for grain, or perhaps coal, but it's likely going to be an abandonned building, once I have a permanent spot for it on the upper level of my layout.  Other than the Campbell shingles, everything else is styrene...

...and these styrene "planks" are my first attempt at making styrene look like used wood.  I think that creating creosoted "wood" for a planned trestle should be much easier, and more realistic, too...

I think this one, below, is closer to the other end of the scratchbuilding-with-styrene spectrum...

...other than the windows, which were left-overs from a couple of Walthers' kits, and some structural styrene for the butterfly sheds, this combination station and post office is nothing but .060" sheet styrene, cut-out and scribed with a utility knife, and painted by airbrush, using Pollyscale paint.

Wayne

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Posted by doctorwayne on Saturday, October 16, 2021 5:34 PM

SeeYou190
I use plastic when the structure os going to look neat, well maintained, and painted. When I am building a heavily weathered or stained/unpainted structure, I prefer to use wood as the building material.

I've built a lot of small structures using plastic, and all were done in a manner so that they looked well-maintained, even if they were very plain in appearance...

...and a number of these hose & hydrant sheds...

This coal dealer's structure was built mostly using styrene shapes for the steel work, sheet material for the bins, and Campbell's corrugated aluminum siding for the roof and sheathing...

For the slightly larger structures, in this case mostly railroad-owned, there's usually a few more details, and a paint scheme adhering to company standards...

I scratchbuilt, (except for the doors and windows) a couple of these...

...and several more of these....

...there are a few more scratchbuilt "company" structures on the layout, but several more will be required for the partial upper level...

This is close to being the last structure I built using wood, a model of a real blast furnace, using blueprints of the real one...

...the corrugated siding is basswood, as are the structural "steel" H-columns, the roof trusses, and the partially visible two-track skip bridge, at upper right.

Here's a partial view of the latter (which was over 3' in length) temporarily in-place...

The "concrete" wall with the notches for the slag runners was cast in dental plaster

I soon realised that building the entire facility would take up more room than was available, and more money, too, so it was, over time, reluctantly dismantled and scrapped.
I still have some of the roof trusses, and did have some of the corrugated siding left over, so I used it to make this enclosed stairway (and shelter for the electrical equipment) for the yard crane...

The crane, which was originally intended to be one of two that were located in the casthouse, was scratchbuilt using styrene sheet material for the bridge, trolley, cab and... walkways, while the angle iron and handrails are basswood shapes.  Some of the handrails were later replaced with styrene angles.

The crane is an amalgam, based on several that I operated in the mill in which I worked...

 

...and all of the structural "steel" of the crane's runway is styrene, including the collector rails.

Note:

I've replaced several of the photos which disappeared while I was attempting to get them from photobucket and insert them here, and/or while trying to cope with the glitches in this forum.  While I realise that not all Forum members are fond of an excess of photos, this post will, hopefully, curb my preference for lots of photos, as it has taken me over 3 hours to compose it...some other photos are still missing, too.

Wayne

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Saturday, October 16, 2021 12:18 PM

Tin Can II
Mt. Albert also sells a rotating strip organizer. 

I store all my strip wood in 8" long pieces of 1/2" CPVC pipe with the size written on the side of the pipes. I toss them in a bin when I do not need them.

So far, I have not needed a piece of stripwood longer than 8" for any of my projects!

dti406
Kevin, I am with Wayne plastic siding and lumber is easy to work with and finishes up well. There are some interesting structures built from scratch in the old Mainline Modeler magazine where Hundman built them all from styrene.

I use plastic when the structure os going to look neat, well maintained, and painted. 

When I am building a heavily weathered or stained/unpainted structure, I prefer to use wood as the building material.

rrebell
What I have found is scale 2x4, 2x6, 2x8, 2x10 and 2x12 along with 4x's of the same are used the most along with 4x4, 6x6, 8x8  and I use 12x12 for bracing.

Thank you for that useful list. Those are the sizes I will order in bulk.

Southgate 2
I still use wood, mainly since I have about 2x lifetime supply, way more than enough to finish out my planned structures and a ton of little sheds, outbuildings, crates, etc

That sounds a lot like my plans. Small buildings really make a scene.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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