I am placing a large "lifetime supply" order with <Edit> Northeastern Scale Lumber </Edit> Products.
I plan to scratchbuild a few buildings, but not many. It has been a long time since I assembled a wooden craftsman kit or scratchbuilt a structure.
I do not have anything to compare to, so I need some advice.
What spacing is correct for HO scale clapboard siding? 1/8" sounds right to me, but I don't want to make a mistake.
What about scribed siding spacing?
Also, should I buy "beadboard" or "board and batten" siding?
Are there any Midwest products I might not be aware of how useful they are that I should also order?
All advice is appreciated. Thanks.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Kevin,
I love to scratch build using scale wood products. I have built many wood structures for my current layout. I rarely buy Midwest products because they don’t offer scale sizes. Rather than trying to convert from dimensional sizes like 1/8” X 1/8”, I prefer to think in scale dimensions like an HO scale 12” X 12”. I have always found it easier to think that way especially when scratch building. I use Mt. Albert or Kappler scale strip wood products.
I don’t use wood products for clapboard siding, I prefer plastic because it is easier to work with and wont warp as easily as sheet wood products. RE size of the clapboard: 1/8” scales out to around a foot wide boards in HO scale – maybe a tad wide for most clapboard I’ve seen here on the west coast.
As for buying a lifetime supply, I find that difficult personally due to the wide variety of sizes one might need and the quantities involved. For example, I needed about 70 24” scale 2 X 12 strips for my stamp mill model – I would have burnt through my stock rather quickly and had to order extra if I was doing the lifetime supply thing…
Have fun,
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
To determine the scale of fractional inch lumber, find it's decimal measurement, and devide by 87.
1/8 inch = 0.125 inch. 0.125x87 = 10.875, about 11 inches. How would HO 11 inch clapboard look? I really like the look of it, but I wouldn't go any larger.
1/16 in = 0.0625. x 87 = 5.44 in, looks good as planed 6 inch lumber.
3/32 would look good as about 8 inch. It scales to 8.16 inch in HO, a tad large, but looks good anyway.
Scribed 1/16 looks good too for siding on some buildings.
Some scale lumber is actual 1/87 dimensions (Kappler, I think). I have a cache of scale lumber, some in 1/87 and some fractional. Unless you're down there measuring with calipers, the difference won't really be discernable on most structures.
I'm not familiar with Northeastern's full line of products, so I don't know on that question.
1/8 x1/8 strip = 10.875 inches in HO. bigger than a 10x10, smaller than a 12x12. Again 1/16 square looks good for 6x6. I hope this gives you something to work with. Dan
Early in my model train years, in the mid-'50s, I used basswood from Northeastern. In addition to the basswood strip material in a variety of sizes, they also offered sheet material representing clapboard and board & batten siding, along with wood sheets of corrugated steel siding, and an array of structural strip wood which included angle iron, I-beams, H-columns and Z-bar, too.However, when Evergreen showed up with similar offerings in styrene, that pretty-well ended my interest in working with wood, at least for HO scale structures and rolling stock. There's a much wider range of strip material, both in strip dimensions and shapes, and also in sheet material, including a variety of siding widths and styles, and an equally wide array of scribed siding for rolling stock.
The real plus, though (at least for me), is the ease with which styrene pieces can be put together, as solvent-type cements bond styrene together in seconds, usually with no need for clamps.
My last big job using wood was over 30 years ago, building the house in which I'm still living. Beyond that, I've built some simple furniture for myself, and a couple of large (and somewhat unique) desks for one of my daughters.
Pretty-well all of my stripwood has either been hacked-up as abandonned dunnage in freight cars, or given away to friends who still model using wood.
Wayne
Basswood is too soft, go with Northeaster or Kapler or Mt Albert (now owned by fast tracks.
Wouldn't it be better to order a few sizes to try & play with first so that it gives you the hands-on information you need before purchasing a "lifetime supply"? Even after gleaning good information here, I would want to see and try it for myself; not just take other people's word. That way you mitigate as many unexpectged surprises and unknowns as you can.
FWIW...
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I took a different approach. I got a Micro Lux saw from MicroMark and use it to cut popsicle sticks and coffee stirrers. If I need larger stock I either use paint stirrers, or wooden rulers which you can buy for around 10 cents at art supply stores.
Saves a lot of time waiting for wood pieces to come in the mail, and satisfies my need to be extremely frugal.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
trainnut1250I prefer to think in scale dimensions like an HO scale 12” X 12”. I have always found it easier to think that way especially when scratch building. I use Mt. Albert or Kappler scale strip wood products.
Sorry, I meant to say I am ordering from Northeastern. They are the brand I have used mostly in the past, and they offer HO scale dimensional lumber, and those super-handy corner posts.
I have never used Mt Albert or Kappler.
trainnut1250As for buying a lifetime supply, I find that difficult personally due to the wide variety of sizes one might need and the quantities involved. For example, I needed about 70 24” scale 2 X 12 strips for my stamp mill model
I only anticipate scratch-building a handful of smaller structures. If I do take on a bog project, that would require a seperate order. I am just looking to keep a good supply on hand so I can build when the urge strikes me.
Southgate 21/8 inch = 0.125 inch. 0.125x87 = 10.875, about 11 inches. How would HO 11 inch clapboard look? I really like the look of it, but I wouldn't go any larger. 1/16 in = 0.0625. x 87 = 5.44 in, looks good as planed 6 inch lumber. 3/32 would look good as about 8 inch. It scales to 8.16 inch in HO, a tad large, but looks good anyway. Scribed 1/16 looks good too for siding on some buildings.
Thank you. This is all very useful information.
I appreciate the time you took to type this for me.
doctorwayneHowever, when Evergreen showed up with similar offerings in styrene, that pretty-well ended my interest in working with wood, at least for HO scale structures and rolling stock.
I have only built one wooden train car. I definitely prefer plastic for freight cars. I already have a very-thorough supply of Evergreen and Plastruct on hand.
Some structures, to me, are just meant to be modeled from wood.
rrebellBasswood is too soft.
Really? I have not had a problem using it. I thought Campbell and AMB kits were basswood, and I have built a few of those.
What problems come from basswood, and what do the other manufacturers make their HO scale dimensional lumber from?
tstageWouldn't it be better to order a few sizes to try & play with first so that it gives you the hands-on information you need before purchasing a "lifetime supply"?
I am just trying to avoid ordering product that I cannot use.
I know 1/4" clapboard would be unsuitable, but I was not sure about the smaller sizes.
SpaceMouseI took a different approach. I got a Micro Lux saw from MicroMark and use it to cut popsicle sticks and coffee stirrers. If I need larger stock I either use paint stirrers, or wooden rulers which you can buy for around 10 cents at art supply stores.
Chip, I was a big admirer of your structure build threads. Your work was amazing.
I just do not have the ambition to make my own wood materials. I know that result in unstarted projects.
Have you tried Builders In Scale ?
woodoneHave you tried Builders In Scale ?
No, I have not. I will check them out.
Well, this is kind of frustrating.
I had my cart loaded at Northeastern, just waiting for some details from this thread, and now the cart is empty. I am still logged in. I guess the cart does not store on their site.
Oh well, their loss... off to check out Builders In Scale.
My source for scale lumber was Kapler Mill & Lumber Company.
I just checked their website, and it is temporaily shut down. They say they will resume operations in November.
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
The Builders In Scale website states that they are running at limited capacity for the time being.
Heartland Division CB&QMy source for scale lumber was Kapler Mill & Lumber Company. I just checked their website, and it is temporaily shut down.
I just saw the same thing.
It looks like the order will need to be with Northeastern. I hope the cart issues do not frustrate me too much.
SeeYou190Chip, I was a big admirer of your structure build threads. Your work was amazing.
Hey, I'm not quite dead yet.
SpaceMouse SeeYou190 Chip, I was a big admirer of your structure build threads. Your work was amazing. Hey, I'm not quite dead yet.
SeeYou190 Chip, I was a big admirer of your structure build threads. Your work was amazing.
I did not want to pressure you into sharing more build threads if you were not ready to.
Kevin now you are in my niche. I love scratch building using scale lumber! Early on I was using a lot of Northeastern Scale lumber. That is Campbell kit source for lumber.I sorta switched over to Midwest for scale mainly because every package has the RR scale size printed on the back. When Northeastern couldn’t supply corner posts I made my own corner posts. It’s faster as well as cheaper to make corner posts.https://melvineperry.blogspot.com/2017/09/september-1-2017-hickory-house-scratch.htmlI went with board and batten for my Mabry Mill.https://melvineperry.blogspot.com/2014/01/january-7-2014-mabry-mill-project.html
We had 7 children so I scratch built a house for each one and a retirement house for Mom and Dad.https://melvineperry.blogspot.com/2013/04/april-13-2013-my-1912-swiss-chalet.htmlThis is our retirement house, Perrydice.Have fun doing your thing, I do.
EDIT:
I thought I would add that every home has room partitions and 20 Grain of Wheat bulbs driven off Arduino Random Lighting Controllers making them look lived in.Mel
My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
Mel,
Very cool Swiss Chalet!
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
I have had good luck with Mt. Albert. Mt. Albert also sells a rotating strip organizer. I haven't taken the plunge, but I will. And they have a really good bulk ordering system. I intend to use the bulk order feature when buying materials for a couple of long scale wooden trestles; one 900' and one 400'.
Kevin, I am with Wayne plastic siding and lumber is easy to work with and finishes up well. There are some interesting structures built from scratch in the old Mainline Modeler magazine where Hundman built them all from styrene.
Rick Jesionowski
Rule 1: This is my railroad.
Rule 2: I make the rules.
Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!
I was lucky years back and bought some one elses collection. What I have found is scale 2x4, 2x6, 2x8, 2x10 and 2x12 along with 4x's of the same are used the most along with 4x4, 6x6, 8x8 and I use 12x12 for bracing. As far as siding scribed is used the most as it can be used for decks too so thiner is prefered here, I have both. Clapboard is great for some structures and I have used a little board and batton too.
Now about Campbell, they have always used sugar pine and northeastern uses a slightly softer wood, I think yellow pine.
I always thought nothing looks more like wood than wood, but I have seen some pretty convincing work done that made it hard believe it was styrene, not wood. Styrene is easier to work with.
I still use wood, mainly since I have about 2x lifetime supply, way more than enough to finish out my planned structures and a ton of little sheds, outbuildings, crates, etc. Also, I don't have the techniques down that makes styrene look like wood, although I need to learn it, and I will, for flatcar decks. Dan
RR_MelKevin now you are in my niche. I love scratch building using scale lumber! Early on I was using a lot of Northeastern Scale lumber.
Mel, thanks for those links. Your work is inspirational.
Back when I was in N scale in the 1980s to the early 1990s I did a lot of scratchbuilding because almost everything available was European prototype style structures.
Unfortunately, this old snapshot from the 1980s is way out of focus, but I scratchbuilt most of these buildings for my first layout.
All the vehicles were European models.
Tin Can II Mt. Albert also sells a rotating strip organizer.
I store all my strip wood in 8" long pieces of 1/2" CPVC pipe with the size written on the side of the pipes. I toss them in a bin when I do not need them.
So far, I have not needed a piece of stripwood longer than 8" for any of my projects!
dti406Kevin, I am with Wayne plastic siding and lumber is easy to work with and finishes up well. There are some interesting structures built from scratch in the old Mainline Modeler magazine where Hundman built them all from styrene.
I use plastic when the structure os going to look neat, well maintained, and painted.
When I am building a heavily weathered or stained/unpainted structure, I prefer to use wood as the building material.
rrebellWhat I have found is scale 2x4, 2x6, 2x8, 2x10 and 2x12 along with 4x's of the same are used the most along with 4x4, 6x6, 8x8 and I use 12x12 for bracing.
Thank you for that useful list. Those are the sizes I will order in bulk.
Southgate 2I still use wood, mainly since I have about 2x lifetime supply, way more than enough to finish out my planned structures and a ton of little sheds, outbuildings, crates, etc
That sounds a lot like my plans. Small buildings really make a scene.
SeeYou190I use plastic when the structure os going to look neat, well maintained, and painted. When I am building a heavily weathered or stained/unpainted structure, I prefer to use wood as the building material.
I've built a lot of small structures using plastic, and all were done in a manner so that they looked well-maintained, even if they were very plain in appearance...
...and a number of these hose & hydrant sheds...
This coal dealer's structure was built mostly using styrene shapes for the steel work, sheet material for the bins, and Campbell's corrugated aluminum siding for the roof and sheathing...
For the slightly larger structures, in this case mostly railroad-owned, there's usually a few more details, and a paint scheme adhering to company standards...
I scratchbuilt, (except for the doors and windows) a couple of these...
...and several more of these....
...there are a few more scratchbuilt "company" structures on the layout, but several more will be required for the partial upper level...
This is close to being the last structure I built using wood, a model of a real blast furnace, using blueprints of the real one...
...the corrugated siding is basswood, as are the structural "steel" H-columns, the roof trusses, and the partially visible two-track skip bridge, at upper right.
Here's a partial view of the latter (which was over 3' in length) temporarily in-place...
The "concrete" wall with the notches for the slag runners was cast in dental plaster
I soon realised that building the entire facility would take up more room than was available, and more money, too, so it was, over time, reluctantly dismantled and scrapped.I still have some of the roof trusses, and did have some of the corrugated siding left over, so I used it to make this enclosed stairway (and shelter for the electrical equipment) for the yard crane...
The crane, which was originally intended to be one of two that were located in the casthouse, was scratchbuilt using styrene sheet material for the bridge, trolley, cab and... walkways, while the angle iron and handrails are basswood shapes. Some of the handrails were later replaced with styrene angles.
The crane is an amalgam, based on several that I operated in the mill in which I worked...
...and all of the structural "steel" of the crane's runway is styrene, including the collector rails.
Note:
I've replaced several of the photos which disappeared while I was attempting to get them from photobucket and insert them here, and/or while trying to cope with the glitches in this forum. While I realise that not all Forum members are fond of an excess of photos, this post will, hopefully, curb my preference for lots of photos, as it has taken me over 3 hours to compose it...some other photos are still missing, too.
doctorwayne..some other photos are still missing, too.
These pictures are ones that I thought to be most demonstrative...this elevator may have been used for grain, or perhaps coal, but it's likely going to be an abandonned building, once I have a permanent spot for it on the upper level of my layout. Other than the Campbell shingles, everything else is styrene...
...and these styrene "planks" are my first attempt at making styrene look like used wood. I think that creating creosoted "wood" for a planned trestle should be much easier, and more realistic, too...
I think this one, below, is closer to the other end of the scratchbuilding-with-styrene spectrum...
...other than the windows, which were left-overs from a couple of Walthers' kits, and some structural styrene for the butterfly sheds, this combination station and post office is nothing but .060" sheet styrene, cut-out and scribed with a utility knife, and painted by airbrush, using Pollyscale paint.
Wayne, I don't think anyone will complain about the photos of your amazing work.
I am using N Scale, and I scratch build most of my structures from styrene.
I'm commenting because the last structure you show has so many windows. Windows are the worst part of scratchbuilding for me. It's the cutting the openings that takes me so long and is difficult for me.
Great work.
York1 John
York1 Wayne, I don't think anyone will complain about the photos of your amazing work.
I agree. Excellent modelling by Wayne.
David
To the world you are someone. To someone you are the world
I cannot afford the luxury of a negative thought
Those styrene planks are amazing. Worthy of an article on how you did it,
Ray
In 1890, or 1910, most clapboard buildings would have had a siding exposure of 4" to 6" max, or about .069" max for HO scale.
By the late 1920's as housing styles changed, exposures increased into the 7" to 8" range.
Craftsman and Colonial Revival styles of the first half of the 20th Century would have been mostly the larger 7" to 8" exposures, but other styles of houses were still built using the smaller exposures.
Modern vinyl siding is often sized to simulate older styles of siding and is often around 5" exposure, but 8" exposure products do exist.
In my view, as a trained architectural design professional, and a restoration consultant, 1/8" is way too big for HO siding. 1/16' would be a better general size for HO, scaling out to about 5-1/2".
As for the current products available, I have not kept up. I guess when I get to that on the new layout, I will be searching too.
Sheldon