Locomotives:
7 Amtrak (3 SDP40F, 2 F40PH, 2 P40)19 Freight (various models and road names)
Freight cars:
25 Bi-Level autoracks (2 articulated, 2 partly enclosed, 21 fully enclosed)27 Tri-Level autoracks (3 open, 24 fully enclosed)26 Boxcars24 Covered Hoppers (various sizes/models)12 Cusion Coil5 Gondolas22 Intermodal cars (11 89-foot flatcars, 8 Front Runners, 3 Athearn 5-unit Impacks)62 TripleCrown RoadRailers (40 configured for rail service, 22 configured for road/terminal service)13 Tankers (various sizes/models)7 Cabooses
Passenger cars:
9 MHC (3 Con-Cor, 6 Walthers)3 Heritage Baggage4 Heritage Sleepers (2 Slumbercoaches, 2 10-6 Sleepers)1 Heritage Lounge1 Amfleet II Lounge1 Heritage Diner2 Heritage Coaches3 Amfleet II Coaches2 Amfleet I Cafe6 Amfleet I Coaches
Kevin
http://chatanuga.org/RailPage.html
http://chatanuga.org/WLMR.html
chorister I am finding that like the prototype my railroad has more covered hoppers in operation than box cars. Anybody else discover this?
I am finding that like the prototype my railroad has more covered hoppers in operation than box cars. Anybody else discover this?
My railroad is set in the 1950-1957 time range with Southern Pacific and is based upon the perishable fruit industry of Southern California. As such I do not have but a handful of covered hoppers. I have tried to keep a high percentage (probably 80 percent or more) of Espee freight cars with the others mostly western railroads such as WP, UP, ATSF and GN.
As I enjoy modeling the perishable fruit industry I mostly have ice reefers (PFE), with a smaller percentage of box cars, flat cars, gondolas and tank cars. I own a few covered hoppers but I don't use them much, they are only seen on through trains for the most part.
It really depends on the location that your model railroad is supposed to represent, as well as the era. For my modelled location/era covered hoppers do not have a large representation.
Jeff B
KitbashOn30 Speaking of that, (and in all the post formatting tools in the three grey toolbars at the top of the write a post box I find nothing to click for designating quotes)
To quote from the posts of others (or your own), you need to "REPLY" to the post that you wish to quote: simply left-click on the portion you wish to quote, and drag the cursor over the portion you wish to quote, in order to highlight it, then click on the "Add Quote to your Post" box at the bottom of that post.If you wish to quote other excerpts from the same post, simply repeat the process. If you wish to include quotes from other contributors, simply open a new tab of the same original topic (or other related topics) and repeat the same operations, then "Copy & Paste" them into your original submission.
Wayne
DSchmitt The overall distribution of car types on the railroad you model is a starting point but note the distribution of types is probably very different on any given line. For instance: On a line that serves the grain industry covered hoppers will predominate. A line serving the auto industry - auto racks and autoparts boxcars.
The overall distribution of car types on the railroad you model is a starting point but note the distribution of types is probably very different on any given line.
For instance:
On a line that serves the grain industry covered hoppers will predominate.
A line serving the auto industry - auto racks and autoparts boxcars.
And on my railroad, a wilderness resource hauler, none of the above. Most cars are hoppers, flatcars, and gondolas. Some limited overhead traffic of boxcars and covered hoppers, but my railroad owned none of these cars themselves, except for some non-revenue/company service boxes.
Chris van der Heide
My Algoma Central Railway Modeling Blog
My layout is set in the late 1930's - mid-1940's, in Wyoming.
Major car types are ice bunker reefers (layout predates mechanical reefers), since Casper had a major icing facility for through trains; stock cars since a lot of livestock was shipped out of and through this area; tank cars since there were refineries in many of the towns I model (two on the layout - Standard Oil in Casper and Husky Oil in Cody); and the ubiquitous box car for most everything else.
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
I set my layout in 1960, and a branch line. With little through traffic, car types are dictated by what the industries need. Everything except from one industry is shipped in boxcars. The iron ore mine of course uses ore cars. Very few raw materials travel by covered hopper.
All this being said, I have more 40' boxcars than anything else.
Also, although I notice what I see in dvd's etc. at the end of the day, it is my railroad, and I'm going to run what makes me happy.
There are days in real railroading, when I pass Enola Yard (which is all the time) where traffic types seem to vary widely. Some days there are virtually no regular general service 50' boxcars to be found; other days there are long cuts of them (many looking rough at this late date). It just depends. Other days there may be long cuts of relatively new TTX 50' and 60' high cube boxcars (the general purpose cars of tomorrow once the IPD 1970's leftovers become outlawed).
So I'm trying to generally stick to modern or post-2000 era and the freight cars that were surviving then (also since my motive power is exclusively SD40-2's).
John
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
Cars on my railroad I seldom if ever run: TOFC flat cars, auto racks, empty flats, empty bulkhead flats, a depressed center flat with a transformer on it. These are old cars with no industries supporting them on my layout. There's a Toy R Us boxcar and a Vlassic pickle boxcar from LifeLike which are just too toy like. My sister gave them to me.
I like a few one-of-a-kind cars, even if they're just passing through. Some day I will build those pickle vats because I have a couple of those cars.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Out west most of the traffic is container cars, next automobile cars, then tankers, then covered hoppers and the rest are few and far between. In urban areas you still see boxcars.
NHTXand yes, there probably is a shortage of suitable cars to meet the demand for them but,
Speaking of that, (and in all the post formatting tools in the three grey toolbars at the top of the write a post box I find nothing to click for designating quotes)
"The boxcar fleet has shrunk by 33% in the past 10 years, and thousands more cars are projected to fall out within the next five. As the Surface Transportation Board Railroad-Shipper Advisory Council (RSTAC) was informed last August, we could start to see boxcar shortages as early as 2022.
We believe that a significant constraint on investment in newly built boxcars by leasing companies is the current car-hire system which does not adequately compensate private railcar owners for use of these assets. That system sets a “default rate” for new railcars in the absence of a negotiated rate, but it is set at the lowest negotiated rate from the previous quarter. The consequence of low default rates is an environment in which there is little incentive for a railroad to negotiate a higher, compensatory rate. The result is that there is little to no investment in newly built boxcars by leasing companies.
...
That is why members of the ELC are working with The Association of American Railroads to explore changes to the current car-hire system that would incentivize investment in new boxcars. We want to avoid a shortage that would adversely impact everyone, particularly those shippers who rely heavily on boxcars to get their products to market. Private investment has been a key driver of the rail industry’s success since passage of the Staggers Act in 1980, and we want to continue building on that success."
From: https://www.railwayage.com/financeleasing/rsi-joins-the-boxcar-blues-chorus/?RAchannel=home
And,
"Some parties remain optimistic. Year after year, I have listened to top railroad executives selectively speaking optimistically of their corporate boxcar fleet plans, but the rate of replacement with new-builds has, in metrics, been frankly rather anemic.
On the demand side, economically, the fundamental market fact is that today a pretty small hard core of shippers still depend on the boxcar. Most of them are a class of large corporate paper, pulp and wood-type commodities. They’re still dependent because, in most cases, their physical plants have logistics doors and shipment dimensions that fit into a 50-foot or a 60-some-foot boxcar at much better cubic capacity utilization than a truck offers.
There is also a group of perishables shippers that can use a modern 70-foot or longer high-cube refrigerated boxcar."
From: https://www.railwayage.com/freight/im-singin-the-boxcar-blues/
Also from above,
"The PSR Era Market Hurdle
Here are a few harsh strategic realities that should not be ignored:
1) In the era now of the push for financial returns from PSR (Precision Scheduled Railroading), the amount of internal corporate railroad management energy available to resolve and restructure and then resupply the boxcar segment frankly isn’t there.
2) What Chief Financial Officer at the “Big Seven” Class I railroads is going to write a boxcar-requirement capex check when the target ROI assets pretax is likely in the 20% range? ...
3) Every 10,000 new boxcars is about a $1.3 billion investment added to the PSR balance sheet. That kind of money represents a huge leap of market turnaround faith. Which PSR railroads are so inclined?
6) A Georgia rail colleague commented this week, “Is watching the break-bulk boxcar business with pallet freight like watching the last ocean break-bulk freighters resist containerization? He is an engineer. But that is a flat-out great marketing question. Break-bulk boxcar loading can be so disruptive of PSR local train pickup and delivery that one U.S. Class I is on a campaign to discipline shippers to clean up their boxcar side track operations. Boxcar pickup and delivery on a PSR schedule is often inefficient.
Thinking outside the box is challenging. If the business model is broken, and the continued asset investment looks perilous, it’s time to seriously consider changing the business model.
How? One way is for break-bulk, cubic-capacity-oriented shippers and receivers to buy out the boxcar assets and hire a limited box car pool manager. Sounds drastic? Maybe. But such a bold move might then secure their niche market use for the long term.
..."
I agree the boxcar is not totally extinct, and yes, there probably is a shortage of suitable cars to meet the demand for them but, the boxcar is nowhere near as prevalent as it was, even 25 years ago. A mixed manifest of today might have as few as a half dozen boxcars out of 120 total cars, depending on the railroad and location. There are many, many locals that don't have any at all. A good indicator of how short the boxcar supply is the number of battered, former incentive per diem cars out there, now on their fifth or sixth set of reporting marks. I live in Texas and see solid trains of these cars bearing BKTY marks traveling to Spofford, a junction on the former SP. This is where they earn their little dayglo green stickers reading "This car cleaned at Kinney Texas". The last time I saw one of these trains, it consisted of a single V-12 powered GE something, running long hood forward pulling a solid string of 110 such boxcars, headed to Spofford.
The paper industry is among the few that demand boxcars. In today's world, most shippers are industrial developements that are not rail served or haven't seen service in years. Besides, the mega-railroads don't want to be bothered with loose car railroading. they would much rather haul it in a container, right past where your spur used to be, to a terminal 150 miles away and have it trucked back to you. Count the number of industry tracks on the former SP Sunset Route, between San Antonio and El Paso, almost 600 miles, and get back to me. This does NOT include bad order setouts or company material tracks.
I agree with Doughless, they let the boxcar fleet die of old age with no thought of replacements. Now they have learned the intermodal container is not the right vehicle for every shipment. My son is an OTR trucker who used to drive 53 foot dry boxes and, he hated hauling rolls of paper which everyone concerned agreed belonged in boxcars which, just weren't available. Did somebody say something about hindsight being 20-20?
I'm biased in favor of the kind of boxcar railroading of the 1950s where a kid could get to know the crew on the switcher that worked his hometown and, get short rides in the cab or, the caboose, and collect railroad paper. Now, they don't even slow down and in a lot of places they don't even blow the horn anymore. I quit railfanning in 1989.
NittanyLionDon't forget that a lot of lumber is moving in boxcars.
Yes, that's what I was saying above. I read where over 50% of the contents of present day boxcars is lumber products/production and paper products/production. And yet there are shortages of boxcars.
There was a paper mill in GA that had to run minimal shifts for a few days because the railroad could not supply enough boxcars.
Basically, there has not been enough boxcar production by the car producers to replace the older cars. Seems like they thought the trends against boxcars was moving faster than it is.
- Douglas
NHTXThe local freight now exists mainly to serve industries that produce and consume mostly low-value, bulk cargoes in everything EXCEPT, boxcars. How many of you live in towns with no rail served industries at all? No RAILS at all?
On the other hand, the local in my neck of the woods sees at least two boxcar served businesses and one with reefers.
Don't forget that a lot of lumber is moving in boxcars.
Transition Era:
40' Boxcars
34' Hoppers
50' Flatcars (few have loads)
8,000 or 10,000 Tankers
50' Gondolas
40' Flatcars (few have loads)
PS2 2003 Covered Hopper
Cupola Caboose
Outside Braced Wooden caboose
Wooden Blind End/Side Door Caboose
Custom Wooden Caboose (2 or 4 Window)
Present Day:
50 PS Boxcar
50' FMC Boxcar
23,000 Tankers
ACF Centerflow Hoppers
Mini ACF Centerflow Hoppers
60' Flatcars (few have loads)
60' Bulkhead Flatcars (few have loads)
52' Mill Gondola
50' DD Boxcars
PS FMC 54' Hopper
16,000 Gallon Tanker
Intermodal:
Maxi Well III 5-Unit Sets
Maxi Well All Purpose Husky Stack
57' Trinity Spine Car 3-Unit Set
All Purpose Spine Car 5-Unit Set
50' Front Runner Flatcar
89' Flush Deck Flatcar Twin 45'
89' F89F flatcar Twin 28'
NHTXHow many of you live in towns with no rail served industries at all? No RAILS at all?
Cape Coral, Florida has no rails at all.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Hello All,
My entire pike is based on the Tyco 34-foot operating hopper.
It is a freelance coal mining branch loop set in the 1970s to 1980s below the south side of the Grand Mesa of Colorado.
There are 25 operating hoppers, 9 are covered for hauling rock dust to line the mine.
After that, probably the most numerous cars are flatcars. Many are heavy-duty 6-axle and depressed center to haul the oversized loads of machinery for mining operations.
There are a few boxcars, and tankers for fuel oil, and gasoline.
Because of the elevation; 6,000' (1830m), the MOW train has snowplows on each end, a steam generator car, a transfer caboose for the crew, and a flatcar with snow removal equipment.
I also have a motorized DAPOL track cleaning car. The "motorized" function refers to the vacuum impeller that picks up debris on the track.
There is also an Olde Tyme excursion train composed of a 42-foot combine car, two 42-foot passenger cars, a 28-foot gondola converted to open-air passenger seating, and a bobber caboose.
Because of the remote location of the mine and tipple; there is no road access, so a doodlebug was brought in to shuttle the workers from the maintenance area to the worksite.
On a whim, the mine bought 4 covered steel coil gondolas. These haul loads to the turn of the 19th-century coal-fired power plant that provides power to the mine.
Hope this helps.
Post Script:
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
If having more LO (covered hopper) than X (box) cars is a problem, you need to answer some questions for yourself:
1.) What railroad are you modeling?
2.) What era?
3.) Where?
The railroad that influences your modeling efforts should be a prime influence on the makeup of your rolling stock roster. Norfolk and Western had way more open hoppers than anything else. Great Northern had more boxcars than anything else. Up until the late 1950s, the boxcar was the king of the rails. In the 1950s, covered hoppers began to be used for more than just dry chemicals and cement, when the efficiency in loading, unloading, and lack of coopering was realized in the movement of grain.
The rise of piggyback and containerization in the 1960s further diminished the national boxcar fleet. Automobiles left boxcars for auto racks while lumber moved onto flatcars, with and without bulkheads. For the boxcar, its been all downhill from there.
As the boxcar hit the skids, many of the cargos that had been shipped in bags and barrels, could be shipped much more efficiently in bulk, in covered hoppers. The same demise also hit the refrigerator car. The icers disappeared in the early 1970s, when the last icing facilities closed. Even the mechanical reefer began to vanish in the 1980s after faster handling of perishables in improved truck trailers on the interstate highway system took them off the rails.
The where applies to where you are on the railroad of your choice. The New York Central between Albany and Buffalo was not the same as the New York Central between Chicago and Detroit. Different industries in different parts of the country, served by the same railroad, means the more common car types found in each region will be different. An excellent example would be the Norfolk and Western after merging with the Wabash, Nickel Plate and Akron, Canton and Youngstown in 1964. Until it expanded beyond the Appalachian coal fields, the N&W was a hopper car railroad. After 1964 it became industrialized and agrarian west of Portsmouth, OH, its old western terminus. The Southern Pacific across the "chemical coast" of Louisiana and Texas, was nothing like the SP of northern California and Oregon. Same railroad, VERY different car types.
As others have said, if you are modeling the last quarter century, you should expect to have more LOs than Xs. Our industrial base has shifted from the manufacture of goods that used to travel in boxcars to importing them. This stuff now rides in containers that fill all of the double stacks that haul them from major terminus to major terminus. The local freight now exists mainly to serve industries that produce and consume mostly low-value, bulk cargoes in everything EXCEPT, boxcars.
How many of you live in towns with no rail served industries at all? No RAILS at all?
The Bucyrus Erie factory was the largest (but not the only) rail served industry in my hometown, and I model that hometown (South Milwaukee WI) with staging yards at either end. A friend of mine wrote a two part article on Bucyrus Erie for Railroad Model Craftsman and found and gave me a copy of a month's report of loads and empties. My reaction was "I need more flatcars and more gondolas." The manifest trains going by had a more usual mix of cars in the 1960s but for the local switcher, a disproportionate number of gons and flats are needed.
Dave Nelson
My railroad contains the following
60% Red boxcars
10% Other colored boxcars
15% Hoppers
10% Gondolas and Flats
5% A big mish-mash of various types of cars.
JJF
Prototypically modeling the Great Northern in Minnesota with just a hint of freelancing.
Yesterday is History.
Tomorrow is a Mystery.
But today is a Gift, that is why it is called the Present.
Ablebakercharlie the type of industry being modeled dictates a lot about what type of cars one would have on their pike.
Since I want a variety of freight cars, my three largest "industries" (places to put freight cars) will be two interchange tracks and a carfloat. These can take almost any car with almost any load.
As a few have already said, the type of industry being modeled dictates a lot about what type of cars one would have on their pike.
For me, a new comer, I am modeling the coal, dairy and meatpacking industries so open hoppers, reefers and cattle cars are more in my lineup than covered hoppers.
charles
riogrande5761 chorister I am finding that like the prototype my railroad has more covered hoppers in operation than box cars. Anybody else discover this? The more you learn about a RR of interest, the better you can represent it in model form.
The more you learn about a RR of interest, the better you can represent it in model form.
How true, also there are many types of covered hoppers, for example I have a raft of Ann Arbor 2 bay covered hoppers as the Ann Arbor shipped 20 cars of sand from Yuma, MI to the Ford Engine plant in Brookpark, OH over AA and PC/CR trackage. The D&TSL shipped many carloads of silica sand from Rockport MI, to the glass factories in Toledo in 2 bay Covered Hoppers. And many railroads shipped cement in the 2 bay Covered Hoppers/
A number of the Three Bay small (2893CF) Covered hoppers were in Potash and Soda Ash service on lots of railroads, some were also used in shipping granuals that were used to make roofing tiles.
And while most of the larger cars were used for grain, there were some that hauled plastic pellets, salt, and in the case of the GN 5250's they hauled vermiculite from the Northwest to the Scott's Plant in Columbus to making fertilizer and potting soil.
And while I have a number of Covered Hoppers, I am modeling the era when the IPD boxcars were just coming in and I also have a lot of the stretched 40' to 50' cars that were done by the railroads, along with rebuilt 40' boxcars that were refurbished and leased out by Evans. Also since I model the DT&I Auto Parts cars in the 60' and 96' catergory are prevalent.
Rick Jesionowsk
Rule 1: This is my railroad.
Rule 2: I make the rules.
Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!
I model 1900-1905 so covered hoppers don't exist yet.
As with any territory the mix of cars depends on the area it serves. The classic example I give is Tower 55 in Ft Worth . A north-south route of the UP crosses an east-west route of the UP and even thugh they are the same railroad in the same location they are two completely different mixes of cars. On the N-S route there will be unit coal and grain trains and it will be heavy on tank cars. On the E-W route there will be intermodal and automotive business.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Geography matters.
Farm country and coal county will produce lots of hoppers, covered or open.
In modern times, I read where paper and lumber products account for over 50% of the contents of boxcars today, and railroads are having a shortage of boxcars due to the decline of their use influencing the projected future decline (lack of new boxcar production over the years)
While the demand for print material is declining, Amazon, ebay, et AL produces demand for paper based packaging products. And paper towels, tissue paper, etc. are in demand as much as ever.
A place like southern Georgia or the SE in general, or the pacific NW, where there is not a lot of grain farming as a percentage of land but has many paper product mills, might generate many more boxcars than covered hoppers.
My shortline layout runs cement, vegetable oil, corn syrup, and paper products; so its covered hoppers, tank cars, and then box cars.
If you model a specific railroad in a specific time period your best friend is an Official Railroad Equipment Register or ORER for your time period. Published quarterly the railroads just throw the old ones away. They are a 4" thick phone book that lists every car in interchange serviceby railroad, the car numbers and quantity and dimensions and type. Thus will tell you the quantity of each car is prototypical for your home road and interchange cars from connecting railroads. Many rr historical sites list their cars by decade. The info is out there for you.
Have never given such a thought to the OPs question.
I have a mix of different freight wagons to compliment the different industries on the layout.
David
To the world you are someone. To someone you are the world
I cannot afford the luxury of a negative thought