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Intermodal

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Posted by jmilleratp on Monday, July 12, 2021 2:44 AM

Caldreamer, Thank you again! I appreciate it. John

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Sunday, July 11, 2021 8:46 PM

NittanyLion
functionally an intermodal rail-marine cargo system. 

The debate on whether or not the Diolkos was a railway has been going on for generations.

I will not share my stance on the subject, but my view is very entrenched and not subject to being changed.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by NittanyLion on Sunday, July 11, 2021 8:25 PM

If you want to get picky, the Diolkos back in 600BCE was functionally an intermodal rail-marine cargo system. 

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Posted by BEAUSABRE on Sunday, July 11, 2021 7:28 PM
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Posted by caldreamer on Sunday, July 11, 2021 1:02 PM

John:

  You can purchase lead weights at your local hobby shop, or as I do go to your nearest Walmart and get an exceptional variety of fishing weights very inexpensively.  I also get used car wheel weights which I get from my local tire shop.  I cut them down and use them as well.

 

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Posted by jmilleratp on Sunday, July 11, 2021 12:13 PM

Caldreamer, Thank you again, very much, for the answers. Using weights sounds good, and I will follow the suggestions for how to do it that you included. Do you recommend a certain kind of weight? And, do you have a suggestion as to where I could buy those weights? I am lining up cardboard containers to buy at https://cardkitmodels.com/. It is great that, with cardboard, you can get the latest containers, like Amazon. Thanks again! John

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Posted by caldreamer on Sunday, July 11, 2021 11:24 AM

True, BUT you have to purchase the Kato containers.  The paper containers are free.  I use them stacked in my intermodal yard as well as on my well cars.  Also, I always weigh my 20 ft containers since they are always on the bottom.

According the UMLER (Uniform Machine Language Equipment Register) data specifications for containers. Just about any combination of containers can be used.  See the following link and go intermodal flat. Go to stackability and you will see the loading types. https://public.railinc.com/sites/default/files/documents/UmlerDataSpecs.pdf

 

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Posted by 7j43k on Sunday, July 11, 2021 11:20 AM

Lastspikemike

Bear in mind the intended or modelled traffic of your railroad.

International container traffic is almost exclusively 20' and 40'. Something like 90%.

That's probably closer to 97%, with the rest being 45'.  Also, keep in mind that there are both standard height 40's (8'-6") and hi-cube 40's (9'-6").

North American internal traffic uses 53' pretty commonly but the other less common sizes are also seen:45', 48' and even 56'. 

 

There are no 56' containers.  There are 56' well cars.

I've gone through some photos of domestic intermodal trains.  Containers are all 53', except for perhaps 1 or 2 48's.  

40's and the occasional 45' show in these trains sometimes.  I'm not sure whether they're in domestic service with the 53's, or international service, and filling out the train. 

One of my faves (in domestic service) was a 5-unit well car with 40' wells.  In the lower position, it was all 40' (of course).  In the upper, it was 53-40-53-40-53.  Keep in mind that most of the rest of the train was either 53' containers in 53' wells, or trailers on spine cars.  A "domestic" train.

 

Ed

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  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
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Posted by SeeYou190 on Sunday, July 11, 2021 10:03 AM

caldreamer
You can detach the top container rub off the rubber cement.  There is no damage to the conttainer and you will not even know that it had any glue on it.

Rubber cement is almost a perfect temporary adhesive.

Good tip.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by caldreamer on Sunday, July 11, 2021 8:28 AM

Yes to both questions.  What I do is to permenently glue enough weight to the bottom of the container so that when stacked and put in a car the car weight equals the NMRA standard.  I mark the bottom of the containers that contain weight and use unweighted ones on top.  I use rubber cement to attach the top container to the lower one(s).  You can detach the top container rub off the rubber cement.  There is no damage to the conttainer and you will not even know that it had any glue on it.

 

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Posted by jmilleratp on Sunday, July 11, 2021 3:35 AM

Great video, Neal! Thank you. It is great to see these cars in action. John

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Posted by jmilleratp on Saturday, July 10, 2021 9:38 PM

Caldreamer, Thank you very much! This is very cool. Have you stacked the cardboard containers? And, would it be good to take or glue small weights inside to give them a little bit of heft? Thank you for your answers! John

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Posted by caldreamer on Saturday, July 10, 2021 8:53 PM

If you go to https://www.krafttrains.com/Paper_Struchers_for_Trains/HO/Containers-(HO)/HO_Containers.htm you can download 1072 free containers that you print out on 110 pound card stock paper.  Just print the ones you want, cut them out fold and glue.  One trick that I have found is to lightly score along the lines before folding.  This makes it easier to get nice square corners.

 

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Posted by mlehman on Saturday, July 10, 2021 10:38 AM

You can just take the intermodal ball, run with it, and adapt it to you needs. In my case, intermodal helps the narrowgauge to survive and remain relevant. We can handle up to 40' vans and containers.

It makes sense for the NG to focus on 20' containers, due to rolling stock limitations and the limits of the road infrastructure once off the rails.

 

 

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, July 8, 2021 10:58 PM

ucf_knight
Unfortunately I already had plans out-of-town so won't be able to attend the Golden Spike show.

OK, thank you for responding.

I will be at the Golden Spike show, and am very excited about a train show... again... finally.

Back to our regularly scheduled topic.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by ucf_knight on Thursday, July 8, 2021 1:23 PM

SeeYou190
Hey UCF Knight: Sorry for not sending you a PM... when I clicked your name I did not get the "Start Conversation" button. Are you in/near Oviedo? If so, are you planning on going to the Golden Spike Train Show in DeLand this weekend? -Kevin

I'm in Volusia County and am actually closer to DeLand than I am to Oviedo. Unfortunately I already had plans out-of-town so won't be able to attend the Golden Spike show.

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Posted by 7j43k on Thursday, July 8, 2021 12:19 PM

If a freelancer was thinking about copying a New Haven 50' trailer flat and lettering it for his own road, he could:

get some dimensions

get the size of the series, to see how "significant" they were

use numbers from that series to help him find photos of similar cars

see if that New Haven car was running in his time period, perhaps making it more appropriate--or less

very occasionally, get some special loading instructions

 

 

Ed

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Posted by NittanyLion on Thursday, July 8, 2021 11:38 AM

SeeYou190

 

 
NittanyLion
I have a 2008 ORER. 

 

I have the ORER from my era, and I have found it not to be useful at all.

What do you use it for? What am I missing?

-Kevin

 

Given your fully freelanced layout, that's not a major surprise. 

I use it to crosscheck pre and post 2008 data.  For instance, the Bessemer & Lake Erie used to have 3-bay covered hoppers it used for a single online lime producer and they were in service well past 2000.  Accurail even produced them, don't have to decal my own.  Photos of them are very rare.  In fact, the only one on RR Picture Archive is from 2010, and the information says that it is in company service.  This car is not mentioned in the 2008 listing for B&LE, meaning that it is not available for interchange.  While I model the Pittsburgh area and it would be common for B&LE hoppers and gons to appear on the line I do model, this covered hopper could not.

Likewise, I use it for cross referencing whether or not certain cars had moved into lease fleets for patch jobs.

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Posted by 7j43k on Thursday, July 8, 2021 11:12 AM

jmilleratp

7j43k,

"Thank you" for your snippy responses. Much "appreciated." Truly a great way to welcome people into the hobby. Keep it up.

 

 

Snippy it was.  I get tired of beginners (not you, of course) who don't want to get books and learn about the subject.  Perhaps I over-reacted in your case.

Anyway, when your books arrive, I think you'll be very happy with all the useful info they contain.

I wasn't trying to welcome you to the hobby.  I was trying to give you sources of information to educate yourself on your chosen subject.

Welcome!

 

Ed

 

PS:  My name's not 7j43k.  My name's Ed (see immediately above).  What's yours?

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Posted by jmilleratp on Thursday, July 8, 2021 10:16 AM

7j43k,

"Thank you" for your snippy responses. Much "appreciated." Truly a great way to welcome people into the hobby. Keep it up.

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Posted by nealknows on Thursday, July 8, 2021 8:55 AM

John,

Here's a video of my Intermodal trains and Intermodal Yard on my layout. It's not a large one, but works very well for my operating sessions.

https://youtu.be/Arp75isZe30

Since this video was made, I now have 3 Intermodal trains that can be run. This means that you wont see the same two trains at every session.

My staging yards are on the lower level of the layout, so all trains originate from the lower level.

Enjoy!

Neal

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  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, July 8, 2021 8:50 AM

NittanyLion
I have a 2008 ORER. 

I have the ORER from my era, and I have found it not to be useful at all.

What do you use it for? What am I missing?

-Kevin

Living the dream.

  • Member since
    May 2004
  • 7,500 posts
Posted by 7j43k on Wednesday, July 7, 2021 11:02 PM

jmilleratp

I watch a fair amount of Virtual Railfan's La Plata cam, and specifically want to model modern-day mainline intermodal. 53' containers are fine with me.

 

 

As I said, I suggest you educate yourself with a couple of books.  How's it going with that?

I'm glad that 53' containers are fine with you.

 

 

Ed

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Posted by NittanyLion on Wednesday, July 7, 2021 10:30 PM

My layout (still under construction) was once planned to be 2008, because I have a 2008 ORER.  Then I moved it up to 2011 so I could have NS and Amtrak heritage units.

Now I want to move it up to 2018 so I can have magenta ONE containers.  Nothing on the road or rails stands out like they do.

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Posted by jmilleratp on Wednesday, July 7, 2021 10:19 PM

I watch a fair amount of Virtual Railfan's La Plata cam, and specifically want to model modern-day mainline intermodal. 53' containers are fine with me.

  • Member since
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  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
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Posted by SeeYou190 on Wednesday, July 7, 2021 8:39 PM

ucf_knight
I need to try to lubricate that connection to see if it frees up the articulating motion. The wheels also don't roll that well.

Hey UCF Knight:

Sorry for not sending you a PM... when I clicked your name I did not get the "Start Conversation" button.

Are you in/near Oviedo? If so, are you planning on going to the Golden Spike Train Show in DeLand this weekend?

-Kevin

Living the dream.

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
  • 18,255 posts
Posted by SeeYou190 on Wednesday, July 7, 2021 8:36 PM

7j43k
Nice lookin', Kevin!  Very railroady.

Thank you. I am pretty proud of my custom built T.O.F.C. fleet.

This is my latest addition.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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    May 2004
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Posted by 7j43k on Wednesday, July 7, 2021 7:46 PM

45' containers CAN'T be very common, because they can't be stored below decks.  If they WERE very common, container ships would be built to different dimensions.

However.  Just past the middle of 2010, which puts us in the "window", I photographed a container train that had 19 40' Hyundai containers and 16 45' Hyundai containers.  There were other companies present, but I'm just looking at the ratio of the two sizes shipped by Hyundai.

Pretty close to be equally represented, I'd say.

So if I want to model that train, and I do, I will keep this ratio in mind.

 

 

It's certainly true that the ratio I note does not hold true in much of the rest of the industry, but it did in THAT train.

 

I have a few extra minutes before dinner still, so I checked into what I had from 2015, a lot more in the middle of The Window.

I checked an ocean intermodal train from August of 2015.  I found 7 Hyundai 40' and 8 Hyundai 45'.  I also found serveral 45's for both OOCL and NYK, plus one each for ZIM and TEX (I used to own a piece of TEX--did NOT get rich of of that).

 I noticed that different carriers are different.  Surprise.  I found that Evergreen has 40 non-hi-cube boxes almost exclusively.  I see a few hi-cubes, and very few 45's and refrigerators.  

A neat thing about Evergreen is that they haven't yet stuck their web address on their boxes, so my collection is valid for decades.  I've also got a bunch of Hyundai and Hanjin.  THEY stuck their web address on their boxes, so I need a "before" set and and "after" set.

Ed

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Posted by NittanyLion on Wednesday, July 7, 2021 6:58 PM

ucf_knight

 

 
NittanyLion
For instance, the 28, 45, and 48 foot containers have all but vanished in the 2010-2021 window. 

 

Might depend on where you live. I see tons of Crowley 45' containers running around Florida these days. Looks like they are making big investments in that size:

Crowley buying 1500 45' containers in 2019

 

Even so, they're not very common.  They're practically a specialty size for specific uses, in Crowley's case for the Caribbean produce trade.

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Posted by ucf_knight on Wednesday, July 7, 2021 6:36 PM

Lastspikemike
I bought a set of five articulated well cars also Walthers Mainline I do not like quite as much. They don't run well as a five car unit due to the articulated common trucks on anything under 24" radius. 

Is that, perchance, the Thrall 5 Unit Rebuilt 40' Well Cars? I recently got a set of those and they track horribly. They look OK for the price and are nice and hefty, but the connectors between the articulating cars fit poorly and bind up regularly causing derailments. This typically happens coming off a 30" radius curve into a straightaway. I need to try to lubricate that connection to see if it frees up the articulating motion. The wheels also don't roll that well.

My Kato 3-unit 53' articulated cars, on the other hand, are far superior in operation. They track beautifully and the articulating connections between the cars swing very nicely with no binding whatsoever. The wheels are also free rolling.

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