Intermodal

[cv_acr]

Lastspikemike

Road trailers were not standardized for all modes of transport. 

Trailer hitches and king posts are very much standardized.

But not as versatile as containers which can be stacked and shipped on boats, which trailers obviously can't.

[Overmod]

SeeYou190

That is a great picture of early intermodal train equipment.

There is a National Geographic article from 1928 that contains a picture very much like it, together with an account of the operation.

[SeeYou190]

DSchmitt

So was the New York Central

That is a great picture of early intermodal train equipment.

I had not seen it before. Thank you for sharing.

-Kevin

[DSchmitt]

BEAUSABRE

Intermodal goes surprisingly far back. The PRR was hauling containers in the 1930's

Prototype Railroad Topics: Pennsylvania Railroad FM Flat Car Modeling (prototopics.blogspot.com)

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/topic/what-is-this-prr-flat-car-carrying

https://www.ebay.com/itm/313095823741

 

 

 

So was the New York Central

[BNSF UP and others modeler]

Overmod

 

 

BNSF UP and others modeler

...I would highly suggest looking into getting your container fleet 3D-printed. Many of mine are, and they cost me pennies (granted I own a resin 3d printer).

 

 

How much would you quote him via PM for whatever number of containers he wants, shipped to his address? 

 

 

 

I'm guessing you're being funny, (and I'm not selling anything currently) but mine cost me like 75 cents or less to print.

 

Dwell on that next time you browse shapeways considering making model purchases...

[Overmod]

I'm surprised you don't model the ATSF approach in the 1960s, which was to use four special containers on a repurposed heavyweight car chassis.  Easy adaptive reuse of assets otherwise suitable mostly for work-train service... got the heat & signal lines for head-end use.

Ed will have pix.  

[SeeYou190]

Well, to get away from baiting and childish insults, and back to the topic of INTERMODAL.

Here is an attempt I made to model something that might have looked like container-on-flatcar service equipment if that had been a thing in the 1950s.

I would love to see other models of intermodal equipment. That is what this thread is about.

Please share your pictures.

-Kevin

[SeeYou190]

Lastspikemike

Of course I prefer the OED, it's a British thing but M-W should work.....

The OED is only useful if you want to know the root, origin, or history of a word.

If you want a clear definition of the most common usage of a word, it is nugatory and nebulous.

-Kevin

[jmilleratp]

I am doing it! Thanks again, Caldreamer!

[caldreamer]

John:

  I have another site with hundreds of containers.  Please email me at [e-mail] and I will send you the link.

                Caldreamer

[maxman]

Lastspikemike

Your explanations qualify as tendentious and fail to distinguish between denoting and connoting. Context can change a connotation to a denotation as it routinely does in specialized language use.

Can I get a Merriam-Webster to go with that?

[SeeYou190]

BEAUSABRE

Since you model 1954, PRR was still offering container service - primarily in bulk (for such things as cement) rather then LCL containers. So maybe you could justify a car showing up on your railroad occasionally. Bowser offers a LCL car

I have a pack of resin containers from Funaro And Camerlengo stashed away for just that reason.

Eventually... I will have one intermodal container car in the fleet.

-Kevin

[caldreamer]

Kevin:

  Thank you for your compliment about this ORIGINALLY being an interesting topic.

    Caldreamer

[7j43k]

SeeYou190

So, if I hollow out a giant watermelon, fill it full of all my posessions, put it on a trailer, and then put that trailer on a flat car... THAT would be intermodal! 

 

Well, yeah.  Are you SURE you want all your stuff covered with watermelon juice, though?

 

Don't forget that it was in 1884 that Long Island Railroad started hauled wagons on their freight trains.  Do ya suppose any of those wagons were loaded with mellons grown on Long Island, aimed for New Yawk Citee?

Naahhhhh.....

 

Ed

[SeeYou190]

7j43k

intermodal:  involving two or more different modes of transportation in conveying goods. A trailer on a flat is intermodal.

So, if I hollow out a giant watermelon, fill it full of all my posessions, put it on a trailer, and then put that trailer on a flat car... THAT would be intermodal!

Got it.

Track fiddler

Ignore a fool and he shall leave!  Feed a fool and he shall stick around forever.

-Kevin

[7j43k]

Thanks for the advice and the proverb, TF.

'Preciate it.

 

Ed

[SeeYou190]

Lastspikemike

Amazing by how much you missed my point

No one missed your non-existent point.

Just the usual baiting modus operandi we have have been forced to tolerate.

Lastspikemike

Makes me wonder how much I could mislead you if I actually tried to.

You couldn't.

Most of the people here are real experts, and the rest of us are very good at detecting people who are not.

Though, it is a shame you ruined another interesting thread.

-Kevin

[Track fiddler]

Lastspikemike

 

 

7j43k

 

 

Lastspikemike

The key feature of container traffic is the intermodal concept. 

A boxcar is a shipping container, it just happens to sit on its own set of wheels.

A barrel is an intermodal shipping container.

 

 

 

And a cardboard box is then an intermodal shipping container.  Sure, it's not round and metal.  But don't forget that barrels can be wood.  And cardboard is sorta wood.

And an envelope is then an intermodal shipping container.  It's a flat cardboard box, utilizing lightweight non-corrugated high quality cardboard.

 

 

Intermodal refers to the standardization of the containers making them suitable for transport by rail and by truck by moving the whole thing from one to the other.

 

 

 

intermodal:  involving two or more different modes of transportation in conveying goods.

A trailer on a flat is intermodal.

 

 

For transport and handling by sea the container itself needed to be standardized. Interlocking fittings and internal structures are standardized. 

 

 

 

So that barrel you referred to as an "intermodal shipping container", if shipped by sea, should be standardized.  I suppose.  They stack a lot better that way.  Same for cardboard boxes.

Intermodal does NOT refer to the standardization of the containers.  See above definition.  Not a WORD about standardization of containers.

 

Ed

 

 

 

 

 

 

Amazing by how much you missed my point. Makes me wonder how much I could mislead you if I actually tried to.

Among many, many examples readily available on the internet here's just one company actually in the business describing intermodal freight logistics:

https://www.intekfreight-logistics.com/the-complete-guide-intermodal-transportation

 

 

 

Years ago there was a ski shop about 7 miles from me in St Louis Park called Trollhaugen.  I loved that place when I skied but it is not there anymore

Ed,  Let me be Frank here even though I'm John

I've always loved you and people like you because people like you are the sort of people that make the world keep working.  That was a big compliment and I don't give those out very often

Opinionated you are but usually you are right 97.2% of the time

I never need to argue with an intelligent man and neither do you.  But I do need to tell you to quit dinking around with arguments where they don't belong or get anywhere and I already know you're an intelligent enough man to already know that.

 

I think a successful company had a successful business calling this kind of crap fiddle-faddle.

Last I looked in the stores there is no Cracker Jack anymore Ed.  Not by the checkout counters anyhow and if it is somewhere else you don't have to go look for it because you already have it!

 

There's an old proverb that I really like and I would like to share it with you

 

Ignore a fool and he shall leave!  Feed a fool and he shall stick around forever

 

 

 

TF

[7j43k]

Lastspikemike

Amazing by how much you missed my point. 

 

 

 

Let me help you out on that.  

 

I think your first sentence was very close to being that point:

 

"The key feature of container traffic is the intermodal concept."

 

Except I think you also should have added "...and standardization of containers."  Which you sort of attempted to do later.  BUT you should have put it in the first sentence because it's equally important.

 

Thus:

 

"The key feature of container traffic is the intermodal concept and standarization of containers."

 

From there you could explain the two concepts a bit:

 

"Intermodal means transporting freight by two or more methods.  By using different types, you can get the best of each; and thus become more efficient than if you just stayed with one type.

 

But.  Moving freight between the various types must be done, yes, efficiently.  By using standardized containers, it's possible to do that very quickly and reliably."

 

 

Point made and backed up.  

 

Unless, of course, I missed the point.  If I did, I hope you'll point that out.

 

Ed

 

 

[7j43k]

Lastspikemike

 

Amazing by how much you missed my point.

Not really.  You didn't have one.  You made up your own definitions, and did not build a logical structure--you meandered almost randomly.

Makes me wonder how much I could mislead you if I actually tried to.

But you didn't mislead me.  You simply failed to make a coherent point.

Among many, many examples readily available on the internet here's just one company actually in the business describing intermodal freight logistics:

https://www.intekfreight-logistics.com/the-complete-guide-intermodal-transportation

And, you see, your own example says that trailers on flat cars is intermodal.  Trailers are not standardized containers.

Again:  "Intermodal" does not mean "standardized containers".  See, instead, the definition I posted.

Barrels?  BARRELS?  Precious!

 

Ed

 

 

 

 

 

[7j43k]

Lastspikemike

The key feature of container traffic is the intermodal concept. 

A boxcar is a shipping container, it just happens to sit on its own set of wheels.

A barrel is an intermodal shipping container.

And a cardboard box is then an intermodal shipping container.  Sure, it's not round and metal.  But don't forget that barrels can be wood.  And cardboard is sorta wood.

And an envelope is then an intermodal shipping container.  It's a flat cardboard box, utilizing lightweight non-corrugated high quality cardboard.

Intermodal refers to the standardization of the containers making them suitable for transport by rail and by truck by moving the whole thing from one to the other.

intermodal:  involving two or more different modes of transportation in conveying goods.

A trailer on a flat is intermodal.

For transport and handling by sea the container itself needed to be standardized. Interlocking fittings and internal structures are standardized. 

So that barrel you referred to as an "intermodal shipping container", if shipped by sea, should be standardized.  I suppose.  They stack a lot better that way.  Same for cardboard boxes.

Intermodal does NOT refer to the standardization of the containers.  See above definition.  Not a WORD about standardization of containers.

 

Ed

 

[Overmod]

BEAUSABRE

When L&NE went belly up...

Lehign & New England never got poor and died.  They were predominantly mining interests that owned a railroad to serve their concerns, and with anthracite demand falling off, they made an executive decision to close the railroad.

Not like the Old &Weary -- as far as I knew L&NE ran first-class to the last day.

[BEAUSABRE]

SeeYou190

Well... I actually saw one of those near a rail line out West last month, and it did not occur to me what it was, and I did not get a picture.

Since you model 1954, PRR was still offering container service - primarily in bulk (for such things as cement) rather then LCL containers. So maybe you could justify a car showing up on your railroad occasionally. Bowser offers a LCL car

English's Model Railroad HO LCL Container, PRR HB4 (2 pcs) (bowserorders.com)

and Westerfeld a bulk car

PRR G22 Gondola with HB1a Bulk Service Containers photo - John Frantz photos at pbase.com

Ya want the dirty details of PRR's container and container car fleet, get a copy of The Keystone, Spring 1985 - still available from the PRRT&HS

The LV offered "canister" service

Lehigh Valley RR Cement Gondola | Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine (model-railroad-hobbyist.com)

as did DL&W and NYC (that I know of)

ny-2.jpg (1600×1209) (canadasouthern.com)

Question about Gondola Load - Trains Magazine - Trains News Wire, Railroad News, Railroad Industry News, Web Cams, and Forms

Commodity Flows of Portland Cement | modeling the CNW in Milwaukee, 1957 (cnwmodeling.blogspot.com)

I have a hunch the CNJ, L&HR and L&NE - all of which served the "Cement Belt" - got involved as well. When L&NE went belly up, the CNJ bought serveral of its branches and a bunch of its covered hoppers at the estate sale to serve this traffic.

 

 

 

[Overmod]

BNSF UP and others modeler

...I would highly suggest looking into getting your container fleet 3D-printed. Many of mine are, and they cost me pennies (granted I own a resin 3d printer).

How much would you quote him via PM for whatever number of containers he wants, shipped to his address? 

[SeeYou190]

cv_acr

It lists all the freight cars in interchange service at that time, so you can use it to look up car series and verify whether it was in service in your time frame.

Since I am freelancing everything, the useful parts of the ORER are very limited.

I am sure others have found the information very useful.

-Kevin

[BNSF UP and others modeler]

jmilleratp

Caldreamer, Thank you very much! This is very cool. Have you stacked the cardboard containers? And, would it be good to take or glue small weights inside to give them a little bit of heft? Thank you for your answers! John

 

Careful careful!

I've tried those containers. While they look very nice on the website, I've been very dissapointed with real life results. You see, they aren't designed so that you can fold the container corrugations into a 3d shape. They are "printed" on, which means all of your shipping containers will have flat sides, and it looks EXTREMELY tacky. The exception is the few they have on the website that are models of smooth sided prototypes. Those look passable. However, since these are made of paper, its almost impossible to make the square and striaght, unless you cut blocks of wood to stick inside... (haven't tried, but seems like would work).

I have no idea what your budget or standard for model appearance is, but I would highly suggest looking into getting your container fleet 3d printed. Many of mine are, and they cost me pennies (granted I own a resin 3d printer). Much cheaper than a pack of 3 for $35 - $40 from a commercial manufacturer.

Food for thought...

[cv_acr]

SeeYou190

 

 

NittanyLion

I have a 2008 ORER. 

 

 

I have the ORER from my era, and I have found it not to be useful at all.

What do you use it for? What am I missing?

-Kevin

 

 

It lists all the freight cars in interchange service at that time, so you can use it to look up car series and verify whether it was in service in your time frame.

It WON'T tell you paint scheme or builder information, but has detailed dimensional information (which sometimes you can infer the design from the capacity and size).

[SeeYou190]

zugmann

What's amazing is that some of those containers can still be found in old railyards.

Well... I actually saw one of those near a rail line out West last month, and it did not occur to me what it was, and I did not get a picture.

-Kevin

[zugmann]

BEAUSABRE

Intermodal goes surprisingly far back. The PRR was hauling containers in the 1930's

What's amazing is that some of those containers can still be found in old railyards (although some have been lost in recent years - incl. this one).