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Brass Model Bummer

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Sunday, February 28, 2021 2:28 PM

tstage
Yea, and the road number and herald in the prototype photo posted by Kevin are backwards.  No wonder they only made one of them.

Laugh

I flipped the image so it was in the same profile as the model.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by tstage on Sunday, February 28, 2021 12:52 PM

Yea, and the road number and herald in the prototype photo posted by Kevin are backwards.  No wonder they only made one of them. Wink

Tom

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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Posted by dknelson on Sunday, February 28, 2021 12:12 PM

The old saying that the best is the enemy of the good finds its model train equivalent here.  Most of us without so intense an interest in the prototype as Kevin might be tempted to say, the trucks looks right, the general outline looks similar - go for it.  On that basis we buy Whitcombs when our prototype was Plymouth or vice versa.  Close enough.  But if you really know more about what you seek then each variance -- and the height difference of the two hoods as they reach the cab windows is immediately obvious here -- is a reason not to buy. 

It's one of the interesting oddities of our hobby that if you'd always been looking for a certain structure as a kit or ready built, and one was found which was this "sort of/squint hard" close to the original in general outline you might well say oh well I'm unlikely to do any better.  It seems we have different standards for structures than for rolling stock, perhaps because we already accept so many compromises for structures anyway but for rolling stock we COULD if we are lucky hit the bull's eye.

I do have vague recollections of a kitbash in one or another of the major magazines that looked a bit like the CB&Q original -- again "looks like" to the unfussy eye -- involving two Athearn Hustler shells if memory serves.

Dave Nelson

 

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, February 28, 2021 11:04 AM

So, is there no way that you would consider that loco on eBay?

It is such shame to think that for the past 20 years, it has been #1 on your wish list, and you are still no closer to getting it.

Rich

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Posted by mbinsewi on Sunday, February 28, 2021 10:59 AM

The prototype loco in your first picture is on the CB&Q roster as:

Cummins 90t.  Ex WV 101.  and aquired in the FW&D take over.

I can't find any other pictures of it.

Mike.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Sunday, February 28, 2021 10:21 AM

Thank you to everyone that replied.

Ed's picture pretty well shows that the brass model is of a different prototype. My information was wrong.

Apparently there may never have been a model made of the prototype that I am looking for since this one is obviously a different, but similar, prototype. This is the only brass model made of a CB&Q center cab that shows up on brass lists I have found.

The one I was seeking is a one-of-a-kind locomotive built in the 1930s.

Thank you for all the input, and a big thank you to Ed for the prototype photo that cleared up the situation.

gmpullman
Maybe you are looking for the Whitcomb 9120 (nee 112)? CB&Q Whitcomb # 101 (later 9101) was the first 12* ton Whitcomb on the railroad.

The model I am looking for was powered by two Cummins model VL-12 500 hp naturally aspirated engines. I have not found a lot of information about the prototype. It was marketed as a Cummins locomotive, and had the Cummins name cast into the radiator shrouds.

From the Cummins 100th anniversary history project from 2019, the locomotive was identified as a Cummins Model 1000.

richhotrain
As I recall, you were toying with paying $4,500 for a piece of crap steam engine a few years back.

That was an old hand made folk art model of a mikado about 4 feet long that weighed several hundred pounds. The seller was asking $4,500.00, but in the end I offered him less than $500.00, which he refused.

A year later I saw the same locomotive, still in the same shop. It had obviously hit the floor at least once, most of the details were broken, and it the finish was scratched up. That is a shame, I had the perfect place to display it.

trwroute
The model is of a different prototype.

Yes. My information was wrong, and it is a pretty good looking model of the prototype photo Ed provided.

-Kevin

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Posted by hardcoalcase on Sunday, February 28, 2021 10:00 AM

The most obvious difference appears to be the height of the cab windows, so if you borrow a technique from hot rodders and do a "chop and channel job" on the cab roof (cut the windows and roof off at the sill, remove a short section of the pillars and re-attach it to the body) you might get a "close enough" model.

Jim

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Posted by mbinsewi on Sunday, February 28, 2021 9:28 AM

SeeYou190
I am not going to buy it, and I cannot tell you how badly I wanted this. -Kevin

So, I'am getting confused with everyone's post,

In Kevins pictures, the top picture is what he's looking for?

And the second picture is what he was looking to buy?

It's pretty obvious to me that these are two different locomotives, and I agree with Chuck.  

Mike.

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Posted by trwroute on Sunday, February 28, 2021 7:59 AM

The model is of a different prototype.  Can't offer much in the way of proof since I don't know anything about the prototype, but there is absolutely no way the brass builder was so 'off' on the finished model.

I wouldn't buy it if it doesn't meet you expectations.

Chuck - Modeling in HO scale and anything narrow gauge

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, February 28, 2021 7:20 AM

SeeYou190

I have been looking for this locomotive for the longest time. This has been #1 on my must-buy list for almost 20 years.

It was only made in brass back in the 1960s, and I have never even seen a picture of the model before.

One came up for sale on eBay, and I felt a thrill run through my body.

Then... I looked at the model. Complete Bummer. Everything is way out of proportion, and it does not look like the prototype at all. Most of the spotting features are there. You cannot see the pilots in the picture, they are OK, but the little cow catchers are missing. The hoods, walkways, handrails, and cab ends are all wrong.

I am not going to buy it, and I cannot tell you how badly I wanted this. 

Now hold on a minute. Really?

I am the furthest thing from a rivet counter that you will ever find. But, I gotta say, to my untrained eye, that looks close enough to the prototype to me.

If it has been #1 on your list for 20 years, I say go for it. As I recall, you were toying with paying $4,500 for a piece of crap steam engine a few years back. And you can't take a $275 flyer on this one? Kevin, you're slipping. You have been house confined too long. Buy it.  Smile, Wink & Grin

Rich

Kevin.jpg

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Posted by gmpullman on Sunday, February 28, 2021 5:32 AM

I don't think the seller is trying to misrepresent anything. The builder and importer must be representing a different locomotive, or at least a variation of this model. The cab and exhaust are definitely not the same as the Burlington photo you provided:

https://brasstrains.com/Classic/Product/Detail/081002/HO-Brass-Model-Oriental-0390-Midwest-Locomotive-Works-CB-Q-Burlington-65-Ton-Center-Cab-Diesel-Switcher-Unpainted

I've seen some of the models produced by Soho or Tenshodo and they have very little resemblance to any real railroad equipment.

The model does look like the 65 ton locomotive produced by the Midwest Locomotive Works (scroll to the bottom)

http://americanindustrialmining.com/mid-west-locomotive-works

Maybe you are looking for the Whitcomb 9120 (nee 112)? CB&Q Whitcomb # 101 (later 9101) was the first 12* ton Whitcomb on the railroad.

 CB&Q Whitcomb 9120 by Chuck Zeiler CB&Q Frt, on Flickr

 

http://www.burlingtonroute.org/Qrailroad/roster/diesels.php

    * That sure looks like a heavier locomotive than a 12 tonner Whistling

Sorry this didn't work out for you.

Regards, Ed

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Posted by hon30critter on Sunday, February 28, 2021 3:45 AM

SeeYou190
I have been looking for this locomotive for the longest time. This has been #1 on my must-buy list for almost 20 years. It was only made in brass back in the 1960s, and I have never even seen a picture of the model before. One came up for sale on eBay, and I felt a thrill run through my body. Then... I looked at the model. Complete Bummer.

Hi Kevin,

I totally agree. The eBay locomotive doesn't look anything like the prototype.

I'm wondering if this is a case of mis-identification. Is the seller actually offering the locomotive that you want or have they got the designation wrong? As you say, the differences are significant. Just to name a few, the model's hoods are sloped whereas the prototypes appear to be horizontal. The model is also missing the cooling slots along the sides of the cowling. You have pointed out other discrepancies as well. I think that you are well advised to pass on this one unless you want to add a different loco to your fleet.

My 2 Cents

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by Southgate 2 on Sunday, February 28, 2021 3:35 AM

Yeah, that looks like a really I'll proportioned toy.  Dan

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Brass Model Bummer
Posted by SeeYou190 on Sunday, February 28, 2021 2:41 AM

I have been looking for this locomotive for the longest time. This has been #1 on my must-buy list for almost 20 years.

It was only made in brass back in the 1960s, and I have never even seen a picture of the model before.

One came up for sale on eBay, and I felt a thrill run through my body.

Then... I looked at the model. Complete Bummer. Everything is way out of proportion, and it does not look like the prototype at all. Most of the spotting features are there. You cannot see the pilots in the picture, they are OK, but the little cow catchers are missing. The hoods, walkways, handrails, and cab ends are all wrong.

I am not going to buy it, and I cannot tell you how badly I wanted this.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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