What are your opinions of the quality and running characterisics of the Bachmann HO locomotives?
You might want to be more specific. Are you saying those sold new today by Bachmann?
Simon
Most run quite well. I have some steamers. Couple diesels. The geared steamers have had cracked gears, some new out of the box. You can see that here and at the Bachmann forums.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Depends on when they were made. I have 21 Bachmann engines, steam and diesel, including two Spectrum models, in HO scale, and all run. My new and newer engines with can motors run smooth and quiet, I have no complaints about them other than my GS4, which tends to derail on the slightest track imperfection. Three of my Bachmann engines have the old pancake motors, and two of them run quite well for what they are, albeit somewhat noisy. The third runs a bit on the rough side, but it still runs. Hope this helps.
richg1998 The geared steamers have had cracked gears, some new out of the box. You can see that here and at the Bachmann forums. Rich
The geared steamers have had cracked gears, some new out of the box. You can see that here and at the Bachmann forums.
I've had a few that had that problem, but I was able to repair them all with a little bit of CA. I think there was a "how to" video on Bachmann gear repair on YouTube.
caldreamer What are your opinions of the quality and running characterisics of the Bachmann HO locomotives?
It depends on how you define quality.
And it depends on how old of Bachmann products you are referring to.
Bachmann is a company that makes trains for entry level, intermediate, and advanced level modelers. Not every product will suit every customer.
Some people define the word "quality" based on how well the intended product is assembled, painted, and how mechanically reliable it is.
Other people expect that, as well as a specific level of detail or prototype accuracy attached to the word quality.
About 30 years ago under the leadership of a gentleman named Lee Riley, Bachmann began a program of quality improvement away from just making inexpensive train set items and into lines of products aimed at more advanced modelers.
There has been a steady improvement in their products since that time.
Today, while not all their products are highly detailed, the operational quality of their products is quite good.
There have been bumps in the road over those 30 years. Not every product was perfect or trouble free, but that can be said about EVERY company in this industry.
Today even their "train set" items are operationally reliable, while they may not suit the detail or scale model accuracy requirements of some modelers.
Their line of Spectrum brand steam locos which have been offered over the last 25-30 years consists of many models that are extreemly good runners and well detailed for the price.
Their diesel locomotive models vary somewhat in detail level, but most from the last 10-15 years are good runners, as is most of the rolling stock.
If you have an interest in specific items, myself or others will be happy to offer our thoughts on specific items.
I personally have about 40 Bachmann/Spectrum steam locos made over the last 25 years and am very happy with all of them.
And I do have some of their other items as well.
Some examples of my Bachmann fleet, many of which have been kit bashed or modified for a specific look:
Sheldon
I've a couple. An SD70ACe and a Berkshire. Red box ones less than five years old.
Both have seen significant run time at shows. No issues of any kind.
I don't have any Bachmann locomotives but I did see a Spectrum 2-8-0 run a few years back it was VERY smooth. Like other manufacturers, Bachmann comes in various "lines". This usually (but not always) transfers to the quality or detail within a given line so that you get an idea of what to expect.
And every manufacture has their studs and duds so it's usually best to take them on a case-by-case basis. Is there a particular Bachmann locomotive you are interested in?
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I was asking about the current versions of the Bachmann diesels. What about the Athearn and Roundhouse now Walthers diesels? The reason that I am asking is I am considering changing to HO gauge. I know Atlas and Kato are quite good. BLI seems overpriced. Information on other manufacturers of HO locomotives would also be appreciated.
caldreamer I was asking about the current versions of the Bachmann diesels. What about the Athearn and Roundhouse now Walthers diesels? The reason that I am asking is I am considering changing to HO gauge. I know Atlas and Kato are quite good. BLI seems overpriced. Information on other manufacturers of HO locomotives would also be appreciated.
Based on what I hear from friends the latest Bachmann diesels run nice, but what I said still applies, some are more detailed than others. Some are a little "basic" in terms of detail.
I model the 1950's, so I only by models of older prototype diesels. I have LOTS of older, 20-25 years ago, LifeLike Proto2000 diesels, from before Walthers took over Proto2000. I am very happy with them.
DISCLAIMER - I run DC, no sound, no decoders, factory installed or otherwise.
I also have Athearn Genesis, Intermountain, and few newer Walthers produced Proto2000 diesel locos. They are all excellent.
The only Bachmann diesels I have are little switchers, GE 44tonners, GE 70 tonners. They are fine.
But it will depend a lot on what era you want to model as to which companies will offer the best products for your needs.
I don't have any Broadway diesels. I have always felt they lacked detail for their high prices and that they are more about selling the "sound experiance".
Atlantic Central:
I model the BNSF, so that would include BN abd ATSF locomotives. The GE 44 and 70 ton locomotives will work well in my steel mill working the blast furnace. Some older locomotives that these railroads had or have may be included as well.
caldreamer Atlantic Central: I model the BNSF, so that would include BN abd ATSF locomotives. The GE 44 and 70 ton locomotives will work well in my steel mill working the blast furnace. Some older locomotives that these railroads had or have may be included as well.
OK, beyond that you will need some suggestions from some others because I don't know much about more modern stuff that would be correct for BNSF.
As I said, I model the 50's, but more importantly I don't really keep up with present day railroading, or even railroading 25 years ago when BNSF was formed.
I have only a thirteen Bachmann locomotives, all steamers, and have no complaints about any of them. They're smooth runners and decent pullers, too. And like Sheldon's, all are straight DC - no sound, all strictly business.
Wayne
The newest are great but the detail on some is less than others. Like was said, they make all qualitys and many scales.
My idea of "quality".
I will use automobiles for my example.
A car company builds two different "models", a basic version, and a luxury version, on the same chassis, using the same engine and drive line.
This chassis proves to be extreemly durable and reliable for many miles, with very low repair costs for the owners.
The "basic" model lacks features like heated power seats, in dash navagation, sunroof, etc.
The luxury version has all that and more, all the latest stuff, plus extra appearance upgrades, fancy expensive wheels, better styling, etc.
Both cars are built from the exact same mechanical parts on the same assembly line.
Is the luxury version of higher "quality" than the basic version? Not in my mind.
Both are of the same "quailty", the luxury version simply has more "features".
So for me, when it comes to models, higher detail, or even higher prototype accuracy, is not something I would use the word "quality" to describe.
Just my view.......
Now, if the more correct or more detailed model also has a better motor, or better driveline, than it may well be of higher quality.......
I have two Sound Value S4 switchers, one Sound Value 2-6-0 Mogul and one DCC On Board 2-8-0. The Sound Value locos are wonderful performers. However, the 2-8-0 is nearly a shelf queen. Not being able to afford one of the Spectrum 2-8-0 locos, I finally found an affordable on-line price for the DCC equipped "standard" version a couple years ago. The first one ran so poorly that I sent it back. The second loco was better but still nowhere near as smooth as the Sound Value 2-6-0. I had read that most of the problem was due to the basic DCC decoder Bachmann installed and so I replaced it with a sound decoder, changing out the abysmal headlight and adding a back-up light at the same time. It runs better now but I think I'm going to have to find a quartering tool to get this thing to run smoothly. BIG disappointment for what originally was a "Model of the Year."
Hornblower
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
snjroy caldreamer I was asking about the current versions of the Bachmann diesels. What about the Athearn and Roundhouse now Walthers diesels? The reason that I am asking is I am considering changing to HO gauge. I know Atlas and Kato are quite good. BLI seems overpriced. Information on other manufacturers of HO locomotives would also be appreciated. I am not aware of any duds among the diesels of the above makers. Athearn offers the Roundhouse line, which is less detailed but solid running. Bachmanns are also solid and smooth, but below Atlas silver and gold lines. I think Walthers are in the same category as Bachmann. Athearn is one notch above. You generally get what you pay for... Simon
I am not aware of any duds among the diesels of the above makers. Athearn offers the Roundhouse line, which is less detailed but solid running. Bachmanns are also solid and smooth, but below Atlas silver and gold lines. I think Walthers are in the same category as Bachmann. Athearn is one notch above. You generally get what you pay for...
I've got a Mikado, an 0-6-0 tank engine, a Peter Witt trolley and a GG-1. All of them work fine. I have replaced a number of the junk box couplers that the engines came with, but I have to do that with most engines.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
rrebell snjroy caldreamer I was asking about the current versions of the Bachmann diesels. What about the Athearn and Roundhouse now Walthers diesels? The reason that I am asking is I am considering changing to HO gauge. I know Atlas and Kato are quite good. BLI seems overpriced. Information on other manufacturers of HO locomotives would also be appreciated. I am not aware of any duds among the diesels of the above makers. Athearn offers the Roundhouse line, which is less detailed but solid running. Bachmanns are also solid and smooth, but below Atlas silver and gold lines. I think Walthers are in the same category as Bachmann. Athearn is one notch above. You generally get what you pay for... Simon Wrong, what someone is willing to pay has little correlation to the quality, especially in trains. Just look at when Ertl entered the market, premium price, premium detail, 2nd hand graphics and proubly the worst wheels for accually running, plus other issues. I could go on and on, just in model railroading, let alone the 1-1 world.
Wrong, what someone is willing to pay has little correlation to the quality, especially in trains. Just look at when Ertl entered the market, premium price, premium detail, 2nd hand graphics and proubly the worst wheels for accually running, plus other issues. I could go on and on, just in model railroading, let alone the 1-1 world.
I think a better way to look at Simon's point is this.
If you compare MSRP pricing, it generally reflects "cost to produce" plus normal markups aross most manufacturers. So better products often start out with higher manufacturer asking prices and correspondingly higher wholesale and street prices.
That does not mean the product will be successful, that does not mean the manufacturer did not screw up something, and that does not mean that it will not be available at some sort of "bottom feeding" deal some where at some time.
Not everyone spends a lot of searching and waiting for the outlier "deal" from a distressed seller.
Lots of people just pay the "fair market price" for stuff. As they value their time and attention differently.
I bought a high end garden tractor brand new in 1996. It was expensive even with the customary discount. Today those tractors are somewhat sought after, but prices on units needing some attention can be low.
My tractor is still in great condition and would bring a higher price than one needing work, but some in that hobby think they are all only worth those "disposal" prices.
To which I say this, if people like me never saw the value in the product when new, there would not be any to buy used now at any price.
And, if I evaluate the tractors utility and consider how many "lessor" tractors I would have worn out and purchased in 25 years, I am ahead.
Model trains are not much different. Mostly, you do get what you pay for, or, you take advantage of someone, be it a dealer or consumer, taking a big loss.
I'm guilty, I have a large fleet of Proto2000 diesels, most bought at "clearance" prices. But I don't kid myself into thinking that no Proto2000 diesel is worth more than $50 just becuase that is all I paid for a lot of them.
Heck, I have Spectrum USRA 2-6-6-2's I only paid $75 for. Get your hands on one in mint condition for less than $200 today - hard to do.
As for Ertl, that was a unique situation, a product that was not actually made by Ertl, who knew nothing about trains, and a product they got from a company that was new and strugling at that time. Not a guide to buying model trains.
And then there was Thumper.
I don't know what Bachmann's "customer service" is like today, but back around 10 years ago, I sent in a Bachmann Spectrum 4-8-2 Light Mountain for repair. Not long after I bought it, it developed a highly noticeable and audible "thump" in the driver wheels.
Bachmann called back and said it couldn't be repaired, no spare parts in stock, so pick something else. Something else? I wanted Thumper back. They told me to shut up and pick something, quickly. Trouble was, they had no Mountains to pick from, Light or Heavy. So, I picked something that I didn't want and sold it on eBay.
I never got to see Thumper one final time. No decent burial, no nothing.
Over the years, I sent in two other steamers to Bachmann for repair, never to see them again. Pick something else, they told me. I wound up selling the replacement picks on eBay.
I finally sold the rest of my Spectrums, save one, a Spectrum 2-6-6-2. I really do like that Mallet. So, out of 8 Spectrums that I owned at one time, only one was worth keeping.
If you want a good steam engine, buy a BLI. You get what you pay for.
Alton Junction
Hello All,
caldreamerI was asking about the current versions of the Bachmann diesels.
Are you running DCC or DC?
My limited experience with Bachmann HO diesel motive power is...
It depends.
The one huge drawback with the DCC units is the limited functions of the O.E.M. non-sound decoders.
From what I can glean these decoders are the most basic of Lenz decoders rebranded as Bachmann.
They are two-function decoders (Bachmann #36-553) that don't support CVs 5 or 6 along with 19 & 21.
Speed matching or Advanced Consisting is not possible.
Also, the plastic drive train couplers between the metal worm gear shaft and the dogbones are prone to failure.
There are two per diesel unit.
On my fleet of seven GP30s & 40s I have replaced 12 of these couplers.
Unfortunately, Bachmann doesn't sell these drive train couplers individually.
You have to purchase the entire gear tower, and then- -either replace the entire gear tower or harvest the worm gear/coupler and install it in the failed unit.
I have had to do this in diesel units that are less than 5-years old.
A GE 70-ton unit I have was sent to Bachmann under warranty.
Happily, it was serviced and returned, at no charge, along with some maintenance suggestions by the factory technician.
It ran well for about two sessions and then the same problems arose, even after following the technicians' maintenance suggestions.
After finally reaching the point of frustration to throw this unit against the wall I decided to rebuild it myself.
I marked the frame in the "forward" direction to match the designation on the O.E.M. DCC P.C.B.
All the wiring was replaced and upgraded to NMRA standards.
The clip-type connections to the P.C.B. were replaced and soldered in place along with the wires to the motor and wheel pickups.
The reason I did not replace the O.E.M. DCC P.C.B. decoder is the board holds the mounts to the headlights. Yea, a bad excuse for not installing LEDs in the cab interior.
After all that work this Bachmann GE 70-ton unit runs like a champ.
The problem is I had to re-build this unit from the wheels up.
In Bachmann's favor...
Once you get these diesel units refitted with aftermarket decoders they perform admirably.
Most recent units are "DCC Ready" with an NMRA 8-pin socket (Or a configuration for other decoders) pre-installed.
For non-sound DCC decoders, I use the Digitrax DH126 & DH166 series.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
The other issue with these products, Bachmann and others, are needs and expectons vs the product offered.
I did cover this regarding Bachmann in my first post......not every product is going to suit the needs or wants of every modeler.
I run DC, I remove decoders if they come with locos. Most of the Bachmann locos I have, which I am happy with came DC, or with not sound DCC decoders that were quickly removed.
So, I'm not the person to comment on Bachmann and decoders. Many people who use DCC are not remotely concened with advanced features and say their Bachmann decoders work fine. Others hate them......
Yes, Rich is correct, Bachmann's warranty policy is more "replacement" than repair. No question this can be frustrating when they don't have a direct replacement for your loco. I have only had to send two out of 40 back, I was lucker than Rich, they had suitable replacements. Although with one they did not have the correct roadname - so they sent me a complete new loco, and my old locomotive shells.
I have few Broadway locos, but because my needs are different than Rich, or many other modelers, I'm not so impressed with that company in total.
I am happy with the 7 Broadway locos I have - BUT - I had to do more work to remove the sound decoders so they would run on my system, I don't consider the detail "exceptional" considering the higher prices, and mechanically I had serious problems with two of them that Broadway was unable to help with - why? - because they did not have those parts.........
I rebuilt them from the ground up and modified "incorrect" parts that Broadway sold me, so that I could fix them. They run great now.
And, the list of offerings from Broadway does not tempt me to buy anything else from them.
As for their diesels, I think the detail is really lacking for the price - it's all about sound with them...... so if your about sound, Broadway might be the product for you.
I did say in my first post that Bachmann did have a few bumps on this road to better quality. I have fixed/improved some minor issues on my fleet of Bachmann steamers - I even posted those tips on this forum many years ago.
Everyone finds their own balance of price, features, detail level, mechanical quality, and models/roadnames offered.
That part is what it is.
I laugh every time someone says "I only buy KATO and Atlas because they are the best". Really? I would not be in this hobby anymore if I had to restrict my modeling choices to locos made by KATO and Atlas.
They have never made a model of 80% of the locos I have - the locos I have are the prototypes I want.
So buy or don't buy, my trains run good, I'm a happy customer of Bachmann, Athearn, Proto, Intermountain, and a list of others.
Lastspikemike Actually, the correct expression of value for money is you never get what you don't pay for. Pricing based on supply and demand is predicated upon a transparent market. Buyer knows what the seller knows and vice versa. Since that is never true in real markets there is always friction in the supply and demand determination of prices. It is most usually the case that the vendor knows everything about what it is he or she wants to sell. That is rarely the case for the buyer. More precisely, the vendor always knows (or discovers) the value of what it is he or she has to sell. If the achievable price is too low the vendor doesn't sell, by definition. Therefore, it is axiomatic that a buyer almost always pays more than he or she could get away with, if only he or she knew what the vendor knows. Therefore, a buyer always pays more than the item or service is worth, if only slightly.
Actually, the correct expression of value for money is you never get what you don't pay for.
Pricing based on supply and demand is predicated upon a transparent market. Buyer knows what the seller knows and vice versa.
Since that is never true in real markets there is always friction in the supply and demand determination of prices.
It is most usually the case that the vendor knows everything about what it is he or she wants to sell. That is rarely the case for the buyer.
More precisely, the vendor always knows (or discovers) the value of what it is he or she has to sell. If the achievable price is too low the vendor doesn't sell, by definition.
Therefore, it is axiomatic that a buyer almost always pays more than he or she could get away with, if only he or she knew what the vendor knows.
Therefore, a buyer always pays more than the item or service is worth, if only slightly.
A knowledgeable seller will usually have the advantage over an unknowledgeable buyer. But, a knowledgeable buyer will usually have the advantage over an unknowledgeable seller. In the case of a knowledgeable seller dealing with a knowledgeable buyer, neither has the advantage. And the same is true when both seller and buyer are unknowledgeable.
The expression, you always get what you pay for, is a socio-economic idiom. It is a critical expression aimed at a buyer who assumes that you can pay a lesser amount for an item and get the same quality as a higher amount paid for a similar, yet different, item.
richhotrain If you want a good steam engine, buy a BLI. You get what you pay for.
This! Don't get me wrong, Bachmann's products are far better than they used to be. 30 years ago, they were more of a toy than a model. The Spectrum line helped, but looking back at the original Spectrum GP30, and it looks crude compared to today's standards. BLI is the best when it comes to HO steam, and is a on a different level that Bachmann.
Even comparing diesels, take a look at Bachmann's vs BLI's shark. The BLI is a much better model, and the sound quality is great, as opposed to Bachmann's just being there.
An "expensive model collector"
The OP was about Bachmann diesels.
How did this post "morph" to...
richhotrainIf you want a good steam engine...
n012944 richhotrain If you want a good steam engine, buy a BLI. You get what you pay for. This! Don't get me wrong, Bachmann's products are far better than they used to be. 30 years ago, they were more of a toy than a model. The Spectrum line helped, but looking back at the original Spectrum GP30, and it looks crude compared to today's standards. BLI is the best when it comes to HO steam, and is a on a different level that Bachmann. Even comparing diesels, take a look at Bachmann's vs BLI's shark. The BLI is a much better model, and the sound quality is great, as opposed to Bachmann's just being there.
In my opinion, Bachmann diesels, in any box, have never had detail levels I consider exceptional.
For GE switchers, that is fine. For other diesel locos I go in other directions. As for GP30's, I will never be in the market for one - from anybody.
As for steam, be it Bachmann or Broadway, or whoever, I have found you have to judge each model on its own merrits, regardless of brand.
As a percentage of unit I own, I have had way more trouble with Broadway than Bachmann.
See, this is the problem, every modelers needs and tastes are different. Some like me are very era and roadname specific in what they buy.
So opinions are based on those experiances, good or bad.
It does not matter how many bad experiances somebody has with a product I will never buy. Yet I may have nothing but good experiances with different products from that same company.
So blanket statements like BLI steam is better than Bachmann steam also make me laugh. Bachmann steam wins against Broadway on my layout, 40 to 7.
I have been in the hobby for about 30 years. I started out with Bachmann, because that is all I could afford at the time. They were the "white box" versions, and for the time they ran okay, not great. I then owned a few spectrum locomotives, some of which I still have. The detail was better and the running ability was also improved. I then switched over the Athearn for all my diesels, and I have to say they have always been like an old chevy truck, run forever, and parts are easy to find. The Genesis versions really have great detail and run very smooth. Some modelers have had light bulb issues, but I consider that to be minor.
I have really not been impressed with some of Bachmanns newest locomotives. The detail is either molded in or is very clunky. I thought they did a terrible job on the ES44AC and SD70ACE Norfolk Southern Heritage units.
As far as Broadway Limited. I own about 25 locomotive, all steam, and have never had a problem. I run all my trains. They don't just sit in the box or on a shelf.
jjdamnit Hello All, The OP was about Bachmann diesels. How did this post "morph" to... richhotrain If you want a good steam engine... ??? Hope this helps.
richhotrain If you want a good steam engine...
???
Well, the OP did take a while to tell us more specifically what kind of locos he was looking for. But these conversations go where they go. It is called "conversation".