wjstix As a long-time Chevrolet owner, raised in a Chevy/GM family, I think of referring to Bachmann's best products as being "Chevy quality" is being a compliment! Ya my Bachmann GP-30s "Sound Value" decoders don't offer all the options of a full Tsunami decoder, but the options that are there sound great and the engine runs very well - rugged and reliable. I figure the money I save with those engines can be used towards adding sound decoders to my "oddball" diesels (like Baldwins or F-Ms) where the only way to get the correct sounds are with a more expensive TCS or Loksound decoder.
As a long-time Chevrolet owner, raised in a Chevy/GM family, I think of referring to Bachmann's best products as being "Chevy quality" is being a compliment! Ya my Bachmann GP-30s "Sound Value" decoders don't offer all the options of a full Tsunami decoder, but the options that are there sound great and the engine runs very well - rugged and reliable. I figure the money I save with those engines can be used towards adding sound decoders to my "oddball" diesels (like Baldwins or F-Ms) where the only way to get the correct sounds are with a more expensive TCS or Loksound decoder.
And that in many ways is the point I have been trying to make. QUALITY and high end features are two different things.
But there is a group of modelers/collectors/buyers who use the word "quality" to describe "prototype accuracy perfection" almost without regard for other aspects of performance or value.
And again, many cannot seem to understand that Bachmann makes products at various price and detail levels for different parts of the market.
Of course I suspect the rivet counting crowd fails to understand why anyone would, even consider those "lessor" products.
Happy to no longer be a rivet counter, having so much more fun with my trains.
Sheldon
I have several Bachmanns and have been pretty happy with them.
My favorites were a set of FA/FBs. I bought 3 with sound and an FB silent. Great models with seperate handrails and no numbers. But getting the four to run nicely together was a little tricky. Sadly those were stolen out of my car in December... end of an era.
I inherited some high-mileage Bachmann RS-3s that look good but can have contact problems from time to time -- I spend a lot of time cleanign them. Ditto a Bachmann Doodlebug I have. (Planning on wiring up a jumper to the trailer car.)
My biggest complaint about the Bachmanns (particularly the electrics and steamers) is they don't pull as much as I'd like. But the sound from the Sound Value locos is pretty damn good. I've bought several SV diesels under <$75 and electric/steamers <$100 and you cannot beat that price.
I have one old blue-box GP40 with no detail that is a bit crappy but well worth the $40 I paid for it. We use it as a helper engine at my club for people who try to send their trains up the 2% without enough power at the head end. We call it the Bachmann Penn Central GP40 Of Shame. Once people see it at the head of their expensive brass Hiawatha, they don't make that mistake again
Basically my opinion of Bachmanns is that you can't beat the value. Some of their locos are better than others but all are good value for the money. I would buy them again but generally not for single-engine use.
Incidentally I understand Bachmann is huge in the UK. I visited a hobby shop in London, the guy told me when they mention Bachmann to Americans we groan and the Brits don't understand why.
Aaron
Kevin, Sheldon,
Thanks for your comments.
As I've mentioned a while back before; I bought this with a skeptical "Well, I hope that it's a decent runner" attitude which thankfully it is. I was especially pleased that it was available in the Brunswick Green with the single stripe version, as the majority of them were in this scheme just before the Penn Central merger. My focus is on SCL's NY to FL passenger trains so I wanted to have. at least, one GG1.
Re: Photos.
One glaring error that I am willing to live with ( at the moment) is the color of the "PRR" lettering and border stripe in the Keystone heralds, which should be white, not yellow. But I realized that, in limiting the number of colors for this scheme, this was a compromise Bachmann may have made to keep costs down.
I'll replace the EZ Mate couplers with Kadee Whiskers and add light weathering washes to the underframe.
(first photo mine, 2nd photo: credit to the photographer)
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
SeeYou190 AntonioFP45 GG1. Couldn't afford the BLI versions on Ebay ($350+) at the time so I reluctantly bought a Bachmann version. I admit that with this unit, I was pleasantly surprised in that she's a "Brick Heavy" smooth runner! Everyone I know with a Bachmann GG1 is in love with it. -Kevin
AntonioFP45 GG1. Couldn't afford the BLI versions on Ebay ($350+) at the time so I reluctantly bought a Bachmann version. I admit that with this unit, I was pleasantly surprised in that she's a "Brick Heavy" smooth runner!
Everyone I know with a Bachmann GG1 is in love with it.
-Kevin
Exactly, it is a great loco at a reasonable price, hard to tell from any more expensive competitors, especially as it zips by at 80 smph with the Jeffersonian.
AntonioFP45GG1. Couldn't afford the BLI versions on Ebay ($350+) at the time so I reluctantly bought a Bachmann version. I admit that with this unit, I was pleasantly surprised in that she's a "Brick Heavy" smooth runner!
Living the dream.
What I am about to suggest, I do not know to be absolute fact. But I did causally know both individuals in question.
Lee Riley, sadly no longer with us, was the force at Bachmann behind the development of the Spectrum line and Bachmann's move toward higher quality.
He started out working at Pro Custom Hobbies in Baltimore in the 1970's, then worked for AHM, then Bachmann.
He had a friend and co-worker at Pro Custom, who seems to want to remain low key, so I will just call him "Mr. LifeLike", because he went to work for LifeLike and was a major force behind the Proto line at the same time.
Now I can't say this is actually what happened, but, Bachmann concentrated on steam locos, with improvements to their line of diesels being slower and less dramatic.
While over at LifeLike, diesels where the main focus of the Proto2000 program, with only 5 steam locos being released in 20 plus years.
Do you think that was coincidence? I don't.
No more so than the lack of product overlap between MDC/Roundhouse and Athearn for many decades. Those two owners had lunch once a week when both companies were in California.......
So Bachmann continued to make mostly "train set Chevy's" when it came to diesels. While Proto went "lite" in the steam department.
Why, because both these guys were old school hobby industry people, and before Mike Wolf and Bob Grubba, that's how this business worked......
All that is different now, Lee Riley is not with us, Mr LifeLike is I believe completely retired, younger blood is running these companies, and Bachmann is making a shift toward better diesels while still trying to be a quality "entry level" or mid grade level product for most people.
Again, in my definition of quality, museum level detail and accuracy is a "feature", not a measure of production "quality".
So maybe that is the real problem, if people don't agree on the definition of terms, it's really hard to have a conversation.
Bachmann still makes mostly "Chevy" level diesels in terms of detail or accuracy, so I get why some don't find them acceptable. For the most part I don't. But I have picked from their line over the last 25 years what I feel are their best products that also fit my needs. And I consider those products to be high quality.
So for the 857th time on this forum in 11 years, I will suggest that it very possible for a company to make some products of exceptional quality, and other products of marginal quality. And in fact that is largely true of most manufacturers in this business - especially since nearly all contract out the actual production.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Again, I would not have a Bachmann GP30 either, its a Chevy in a Cadillac market.
Again, I would not have a Bachmann GP30 either, its a Chevy in a Cadillac market.
Seems to be a common theme with Bachmann.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL But I don't have ANY GP30's, from ANYONE, because I model 1954 and GP30's are still 7 years in the future.
But I don't have ANY GP30's, from ANYONE, because I model 1954 and GP30's are still 7 years in the future.
We get that, however it has nothing to do with the quality of Bachmann's products.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL You see this question in terms of the locos that interest you, I see the question in the terms of the locos that interest me.
You see this question in terms of the locos that interest you, I see the question in the terms of the locos that interest me.
I don't. Bachmann makes, or has made many models that interest me and were owned by the railroad I model. Currently they make the EMD F7, GP9, GP30 and E7. Along with FA1 and S4s. They also sell a K4. They have made some models in the past that I may have purchased, if not for glaring errors.
https://mrr.trains.com/news-reviews/staff-reviews/2008/02/bachmann-ho-scale-rf-16
"A few dimensions, notably the body width and the length of the trucks, are off by several scale inches."
This is not a "Chevy in a Cadillac market" case, it is just a design on the cheap. The days of looking the other way, like many of us did in the 80's at Athearn's wider than scale long hood, are for the most part over. No doubt they are using trucks off of another model, and not researching the body size. The fact is I have not purchased any, not because they are prototypes that do not interest me, but because they are not of the quality that I am looking for. I owned a Spectrum GP30 because, at the time, it was the best plastic model out there. I sold it when it was no longer the case. In some ways, looking at that model, it shows how far the industry has come in 30 years.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL My Bachmann Spectrum steamers are great locos. Your beloved Broadway has yet to make most of the steam I am interested in, and I'm not interested in DCC or sound.
My Bachmann Spectrum steamers are great locos. Your beloved Broadway has yet to make most of the steam I am interested in, and I'm not interested in DCC or sound.
You have made that fact very clear in all of your posts. The difference is Bachmann HAS made models that I would be interested in, if they were a higher quality product. Having measurements that are off by "several inches" does not fall under that.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL And yes, most of my Diesels are early Proto2000 products, or Genesis and Intermountain products.
And yes, most of my Diesels are early Proto2000 products, or Genesis and Intermountain products.
For the most part, those are good products. Early Proto2000 has had some issues with cracked gears, but that wasn't known until years after release.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL So yes, I laugh at all the blanket statements "Brand X is junk, Brand Y is great". Sheldon
So yes, I laugh at all the blanket statements "Brand X is junk, Brand Y is great".
Looking back over this thread, I don't see anyone saying Bachmann's models are "junk". The worst comment on Bachmann's models that I saw was mine, when I referred to the white box models from the 80's/early 90's as being "toy quality". I stand by that statement. Not junk, they had a purpose, and no doubt got many people involved in this hobby.
I tend to laugh when people get bent out of shape when someone gives their opinion, which is what the OP asked for. I get it, you have a very good opinion of Bachmann, and I am happy for you. I, and it appears some other members of this forum, do not. Why that seems to upset you, I do not know.
An "expensive model collector"
I would say that, in the current state of the hobby manufacturing field, for an entry level model railroader, it's Bachmann or nothing (or, "Bachmann or the train show.")There really is not a lot in the entry-level these days. And most of what there is, is Bachmann. There are probably more Bachmann 0-6-0 steamers out there in the wild, than any other HO steam locomotive now made...
Not a fan of Bachmann's motive power, yet it manufactured models of prototypes that I wanted.
1. The New Haven EF-4 (E-33). Yes, I saw them in action as a kid across the street from my home in NYC. No one else produced a plastic HO model of these ex-Virginian bricks. Sparse in details but, overall, nice looking units that can be spruced up.
2. Amtrak's GE E60. I regret not getting the American GK / Walthers version when tbey were on the market. Hard to find on ebay so I bought a Bachmann DCC version.
Not a bad looking unit, although sparse on detailing. The drive's performance is similar to that of an Athearn BB unit but, according to modelers on other forums, they can be tweaked. If I get it to run smoothly enough, it will also receive a sound decoder/speaker as I've always iiked the sound of the Nathan P-01235 horn emitted by the prototypes.
3. GG1. Couldn't afford the BLI versions on Ebay ($350+) at the time so I reluctantly bought a Bachmann version. I admit that with this unit, I was pleasantly surprised in that she's a "Brick Heavy" smooth runner! The DCC decoder is behaving itself. The onboard sound is minimal, but I'm Ok with that since the prototypes were very quiet. The Leslie A-200 horn's "Ke-onnk" sounds decent with a tiny whisp of reverb.
The Sound Value locomotives can compete with the best in terms of operation and basic sounds. The shells lack added on details, but the basic tooling and handrail thickness is as good as any other brand. They are less expensive because of the lack of details and the stripped down sound features, but are fine.
The plain DCC On Board lineup is buzzy and performs poorly compared to others, IMO. I would avoid that line.
- Douglas
richhotrain Rest in Peace, Thumper. Its untimely demise ended my brief love affair with Bachmann. Rich
Rest in Peace, Thumper.
Its untimely demise ended my brief love affair with Bachmann.
Rich
Yes, poor thumper. I would have liked to had the opportunity to try and save thumper.
At least we were able to save the PA1......
Do you know what is really funny, five of my seven Broadway locos now have Bachmann tenders.
While I think the newest Bachmann steam is very nice for the price, they have moved away from the really high detail of the best Spectrum offerings from a decade ago.
I still judge each piece based on its individual merrits without regard for brand. One example, if I was modeling the PRR, I would have not bought Bachmann K4 locomotives, at least not until the most recent versions.
It was one of their first Spectrum locos, and it had some growing pains.
I don't have the decapod, it just does not fit my theme.
I only have one Bachmann N&W J, I don't model N&W and it is not my first choice for that prototype. But I got it cheap and I am kit bashing it into something else.
Atlas makes great locos, but I don't have any. Proto offered better selection and availablity in my era, I was happy to stick mostly with one brand with lots of interchangeable parts.
We all make choices based on our interests, tastes and experiances.
Few of my locos make it from the box to the layout without some changes, or a paint job, that too effects my choices.
Mostly I have enough locos anyway, and since I'm not selling them off just to buy something else, I don't really have a dog in the "best locomotive brand" fight.
Alton Junction
n012944 richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL So blanket statements like BLI steam is better than Bachmann steam also make me laugh. Bachmann steam wins against Broadway on my layout, 40 to 7. BLI wins 7 to 1 over Bachmann on my layout, past and present. Rich If we are "keeping score", Bachmann motive power has not been represented in my collection since Proto 2000 came out with a GP30 almost 20 years ago.
richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL So blanket statements like BLI steam is better than Bachmann steam also make me laugh. Bachmann steam wins against Broadway on my layout, 40 to 7. BLI wins 7 to 1 over Bachmann on my layout, past and present. Rich
ATLANTIC CENTRAL So blanket statements like BLI steam is better than Bachmann steam also make me laugh. Bachmann steam wins against Broadway on my layout, 40 to 7.
So blanket statements like BLI steam is better than Bachmann steam also make me laugh. Bachmann steam wins against Broadway on my layout, 40 to 7.
BLI wins 7 to 1 over Bachmann on my layout, past and present.
If we are "keeping score", Bachmann motive power has not been represented in my collection since Proto 2000 came out with a GP30 almost 20 years ago.
So as I read these responses, I still can't get over how many people seem to equate "features" with "quality" - even if those loco brands with more features have a similar "dud" rate and need to be returned for service at the same failure rate as Bachmann?.
And why is it such a hard concept that not every product from one company is built to the same "feature" level? Not every car from GM is a loaded Cadillac.
Some of you bought Bachmanns Chevy, thinking it was a Cadillac and were unhappy.
Some of you bought Bachmanns Cadillac and loved it.
Some of you bought the Chevy only expecting a Chevy and loved it.
Some of you bought the Cadillac or the Chevy built on Friday afternoon and had a bad experiance.
I bought 40, mostly Cadillac's, a few Chevy's, and three were duds they replaced with winners.
I did not expect the Chevy's to be Cadillac's, and I hot rodded most of them myself anyway.
For those of you not inclined to "hot rodding", maybe some other brands are a better choice.........
Medina1128 I only have one. It's a Spectrum with a dual-mode, that I run on DC. Personally, I don't think too much of it. The "chuff" sound starts way before the locomotive actually moves. I don't know if their newer models have that problem addressed.
I only have one. It's a Spectrum with a dual-mode, that I run on DC. Personally, I don't think too much of it. The "chuff" sound starts way before the locomotive actually moves. I don't know if their newer models have that problem addressed.
So I really have to ask this question.
How many other DCC sound locos are you running on DC that work perfectly?
Some dual mode decoderrs ar better than others, but in general, sound sucks on DC because of the high starting voltage of the decoders.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
ATLANTIC CENTRALBlanket statements like BLI steam is better than Bachmann steam also make me laugh. Bachmann steam wins against Broadway on my layout, 40 to 7.
I have had no luck with anything from BLI, and attempting to deal with them when there has been a problem has been a nightmare.
My sample-size is too small to make any sort of statement about BLI, but my experience with them has been very poor.
I am glad that they made undecorated models of prototype specific locomotives.
I have the Bachmann NS Heritage collection and a E-7 PRR. They run well, I like the sound, they are not rivet counter detailed but they look good enough for me and easy to program with JMRI. Being they are from the same manufacturer, easy to MU. Good loco for the price in my opinion.
Lets see Bachman...
Well I have 5 DCC on Board and 3 Sound Value. The Sound Value cost a bit more but the better running characteristics make the difference worthwhile In terms of my goto GP-38 locomotives I rank them as follows:
1 NS 5555 Sound Value
2 CSX/Atlas (can't remember the road number
3 NS 5536 MTH
4 Chessie (again road number escapes me) DCC on Board.
So I think the sound value series is competitve with other brands but base DCC on Board not so much.
Joe Staten Island West
From Broadway I have two N&W Class A's, two Reading T-1's, the two infamous USRA Heavy Mikes (not unlike your Bachmann Thumper), and one USRA Heavy Pacfic. And when I look at the prices and the selection, and consider the prospect of having to rewire it, there is nothing in their line that attracts me at all.
But right this minute, the situation is not that different with Bachmann. I have a project in mind for a Pacific or two that a Bachmann USRA Light would be good for, and I have considered a couple more Mikados. Other than that, I'm pretty set when it comes to locos except for some stuff only available in brass.
Honestly my Bachmann fleet excludes some of their locos that had known issues, or that simply do not fit my theme. But the ones I have, I have multiples of and all have been good.
I have to say this as well, every company out there has a design dud now and then, and they all have those defects that sneak thru. But when your Bachmann fleet is nine USRA Heavy Mountains, ten 2-8-0's, five 2-6-6-2's, three 2-10-2's, five 2-8-4's (converted to 2-8-2's), four doodle bugs, four GE70 tonners, three 44 tonners, two 4-6-0's, one N&W J (currently being kit bashed into something else) and a couple EM1 2-8-8-4's, and you only have had two or three problems which they took care of, and all these locos run nice, you have to be a happy customer - I'm a happy customer.
jjdamnit Hello All, The OP was about Bachmann diesels. How did this post "morph" to... richhotrain If you want a good steam engine... ??? Hope this helps.
Hello All,
The OP was about Bachmann diesels.
How did this post "morph" to...
richhotrain If you want a good steam engine...
???
Hope this helps.
Also, that brief seven word excerpt that you quoted was at the end of a much longer reply that I made, taking it totally out of context.
??? Hope this helps. It doesn't. Some of your recent replies suggest that you are trying to police the forum.
Well, the OP did take a while to tell us more specifically what kind of locos he was looking for. But these conversations go where they go. It is called "conversation".
I have been in the hobby for about 30 years. I started out with Bachmann, because that is all I could afford at the time. They were the "white box" versions, and for the time they ran okay, not great. I then owned a few spectrum locomotives, some of which I still have. The detail was better and the running ability was also improved. I then switched over the Athearn for all my diesels, and I have to say they have always been like an old chevy truck, run forever, and parts are easy to find. The Genesis versions really have great detail and run very smooth. Some modelers have had light bulb issues, but I consider that to be minor.
I have really not been impressed with some of Bachmanns newest locomotives. The detail is either molded in or is very clunky. I thought they did a terrible job on the ES44AC and SD70ACE Norfolk Southern Heritage units.
As far as Broadway Limited. I own about 25 locomotive, all steam, and have never had a problem. I run all my trains. They don't just sit in the box or on a shelf.
n012944 richhotrain If you want a good steam engine, buy a BLI. You get what you pay for. This! Don't get me wrong, Bachmann's products are far better than they used to be. 30 years ago, they were more of a toy than a model. The Spectrum line helped, but looking back at the original Spectrum GP30, and it looks crude compared to today's standards. BLI is the best when it comes to HO steam, and is a on a different level that Bachmann. Even comparing diesels, take a look at Bachmann's vs BLI's shark. The BLI is a much better model, and the sound quality is great, as opposed to Bachmann's just being there.
richhotrain If you want a good steam engine, buy a BLI. You get what you pay for.
If you want a good steam engine, buy a BLI. You get what you pay for.
This! Don't get me wrong, Bachmann's products are far better than they used to be. 30 years ago, they were more of a toy than a model. The Spectrum line helped, but looking back at the original Spectrum GP30, and it looks crude compared to today's standards. BLI is the best when it comes to HO steam, and is a on a different level that Bachmann.
Even comparing diesels, take a look at Bachmann's vs BLI's shark. The BLI is a much better model, and the sound quality is great, as opposed to Bachmann's just being there.
In my opinion, Bachmann diesels, in any box, have never had detail levels I consider exceptional.
For GE switchers, that is fine. For other diesel locos I go in other directions. As for GP30's, I will never be in the market for one - from anybody.
As for steam, be it Bachmann or Broadway, or whoever, I have found you have to judge each model on its own merrits, regardless of brand.
As a percentage of unit I own, I have had way more trouble with Broadway than Bachmann.
See, this is the problem, every modelers needs and tastes are different. Some like me are very era and roadname specific in what they buy.
So opinions are based on those experiances, good or bad.
It does not matter how many bad experiances somebody has with a product I will never buy. Yet I may have nothing but good experiances with different products from that same company.
richhotrainIf you want a good steam engine...
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"