In 40 years in the hobby, I haven't found much need to complain about shopping for items. If I don't like the way one company does something, I use one of the other 12 or the array of private sellers on ebay.
Right now, I can find kadee couplers, ranging from the 20 bulk pack to a package of 2 with shipping charges of: $7, $5.55, $3.29, free, free; some having slightly lower item prices than others. Ranging from $32 for the 20 to $9 for the 2 (ouch).
Boxes of Atlas rail joiners with a price of $3.99 or $4.99 with shipping charges $3.50 and $3.49. Tons more.
I've never had a problem finding a variety of retailers with which to shop around.
But, as I've said in other threads, I'm not waiting for that one special loco or boxcar to appear on the market. But if I was, I would be so happy that I got my one beloved item that I've been waiting for to gladly spend $25 shipping. Rare and precious is expensive, even if its just rare and precious to one person, but I've never approached trains like any one item was rare and precious. Maybe that's the difference.
And if your online shopping trip ends up buying just one box of rail joiners, think of back in the day what you spent on time and gas to go to the LHS just to buy one box of rail joiners. You did the shipping to your house. Now UPS does the shipping to your house. Back in the day, most folks understood the concept of going to the LHS when they were out running other errands to disburse the cost of the gas.
Buying one thing at a time costs more money to get the item to the house than if you bought other things with that same transportation cost. Always has.
- Douglas
SeeYou190 If you charge $14.00 for shipping, you better not drop it in a bubble mailer and send it First Class USPS for $4.00 and pocket the difference.
If you charge $14.00 for shipping, you better not drop it in a bubble mailer and send it First Class USPS for $4.00 and pocket the difference.
I get this problem all the time on eBay. I had one instance where I won a lot of cabooses and the shipping charges, based on the size of the lot I had won, seemed reasonable ($25). But to receive the box and notice that the seller shipped parcel post and that the actual postage was only $8, and he used wadded up grocery bags for packing material, I was pretty ticked off.
On the side, I also collect some postcards and ephemera, and this type of shipping discrepancy is very prevalent there. It's not uncommon to make an eBay or other vendor purchase and pay $4-$5 for shipping and get your item in a simple letter envelope with a single forever stamp, or if the vendor gets cute and mails your envelope franked with several vintage stamps.
spe3376 I get this problem all the time on eBay. I had one instance where I won a lot of cabooses and the shipping charges, based on the size of the lot I had won, seemed reasonable ($25). But to receive the box and notice that the seller shipped parcel post and that the actual postage was only $8, and he used wadded up grocery bags for packing material, I was pretty ticked off.
I will say this in the seller's defense, and it may not be a good defense with most folks.
He may have put a high shipping price in the listing to make sure that he doesn't get screwed over by a winner from Alaska or Hawaii. Whenever I put a low fixed rate shipping charge on a listing, I inevitably get some wise guy from California or Washington winning the sale and screwing me over for about $9 on shipping.
What the seller should have done is to discount the shipping upon sending you an invoice....but....you have to request an invoice and message him to do so, not just pay right away (which is what the wise guys from the Left coast do..pay immediately so I can't adjust shipping. My loss for not keeping shipping costs high in the listing).
Also, if he clearly listed the item with a flat $25 shipping charge, then he may figure that the bidders are taking that into account when making their bids and it was understood that final costs would be $25 higher than the winning bid, because that's what the listing said.
And usually, the type of shipping is disclosed as part of the ddtails of the listing. If he listed it as Priority but then shipped it parcel post, regular ground to get the cheaper shipping cost, then the listing was wrong and you could possibly file a claim through ebay and get refunded the difference.
No excuses for poor packing however.
spe3376or if the vendor gets cute and mails your envelope franked with several vintage stamps.
There are eBay sellers who do business selling "$100" (or more) in old postage stamps for a discounted price -- I recently got north of $117 for under $80. If you do lots of business shipping USPS (and you have the time and precious bodily fluids to apply large numbers of stamps to your meter-weighed small box) this is almost like coining money...
Doughless In 40 years in the hobby, I haven't found much need to complain about shopping for items. If I don't like the way one company does something, I use one of the other 12 or the array of private sellers on ebay. Right now, I can find kadee couplers, ranging from the 20 bulk pack to a package of 2 with shipping charges of: $7, $5.55, $3.29, free, free; some having slightly lower item prices than others. Ranging from $32 for the 20 to $9 for the 2 (ouch). Boxes of Atlas rail joiners with a price of $3.99 or $4.99 with shipping charges $3.50 and $3.49. Tons more. I've never had a problem finding a variety of retailers with which to shop around. But, as I've said in other threads, I'm not waiting for that one special loco or boxcar to appear on the market. But if I was, I would be so happy that I got my one beloved item that I've been waiting for to gladly spend $25 shipping. Rare and precious is expensive, even if its just rare and precious to one person, but I've never approached trains like any one item was rare and precious. Maybe that's the difference. And if your online shopping trip ends up buying just one box of rail joiners, think of back in the day what you spent on time and gas to go to the LHS just to buy one box of rail joiners. You did the shipping to your house. Now UPS does the shipping to your house. Back in the day, most folks understood the concept of going to the LHS when they were out running other errands to disburse the cost of the gas. Buying one thing at a time costs more money to get the item to the house than if you bought other things with that same transportation cost. Always has.
Yep. Academic.
DoughlessI will say this in the seller's defense, and it may not be a good defense with most folks. He may have put a high shipping price in the listing to make sure that he doesn't get screwed over by a winner from Alaska or Hawaii. Whenever I put a low fixed rate shipping charge on a listing, I inevitably get some wise guy from California or Washington winning the sale and screwing me over for about $9 on shipping. What the seller should have done is to discount the shipping upon sending you an invoice....but....you have to request an invoice and message him to do so, not just pay right away (which is what the wise guys from the Left coast do..pay immediately so I can't adjust shipping. My loss for not keeping shipping costs high in the listing).
Yes. I've had some Ebay sellers do that, or refund me the overage, rather than pocket it. Things like that will encourage repeat business and good feedback. Things like charging $25 when it was actually a fraction of that, would be burning bridges with customers.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
I recently bought a loco from Trainworld. Shipping was $12.99. That's not unreasonable at all - if you think so, take a look at current USPS rates. An HO loco won't fit safely in the small flat rate box, you have to go up to medium, which is the size box they shipped it to me in, and for the average person just buying one to ship something - that costs $15.05.
I think we've become jaded by 'free' shipping such as Amazn prime - but that cost is baked into the price you pay. You can get the same item cheaper elsewhere, without the Prime shipping, but then you have to pay actual shipping.
Yes, there are sellers out there really gouging on shipping, but $12-$15 for a powered loco are not outrageous amounts or examples of this.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
riogrande5761 Yes. I've had some Ebay sellers do that, or refund me the overage, rather than pocket it. Things like that will encourage repeat business and good feedback. Things like charging $25 when it was actually a fraction of that, would be burning bridges with customers.
In my particular instance, I did wait for the invoice, and I did complain about the difference after the fact. The seller claimed that his time was a large component of the shipping charges, and that the parcel post was the same time in transit as First Class so I shouldn't have been complaining. Ebay didn't care because I agreed to the shipping charges when I accepted the invoice. For Priority Mail or First Class, those charges were reasonable - not parcel post, and definitely not poorly packaged.
OP here. First, I am surprised at all the comments this generated. Second, I would like to say that I see EBAY purchases quite differently. Typically when I am purchasing from EBAY the shipping charges are stated up front, no surprises. With Factory Dirct Hobbies website there is no shipping charge listed. They also do not show a minimum or standard shipping charge like some other vendors. If you search enough you can find a place at the very bottom of their page to click on shipping policy. Here they state "Shipments are charged by item weight and size excluding applicable sales tax." So, how does it cost $19.09 (over $30 if I want it quickly) to ship two small plastic items from their location in North Carolina to me in the metro St. Louis area? I have been reading all of the comments and cannot see how any of them defend this type of overcharging. I am not rying to rant here, I just feel that some people are missing the point. So, I really do appreciate all of the feedback, good, bad, or indifferent. This forum is very important to me because I really don't have anywhere to go around here for model railroading information. Thanks to all. wdcrvr
spe3376 In my particular instance, I did wait for the invoice, and I did complain about the difference after the fact. The seller claimed that his time was a large component of the shipping charges, and that the parcel post was the same time in transit as First Class so I shouldn't have been complaining. Ebay didn't care because I agreed to the shipping charges when I accepted the invoice. For Priority Mail or First Class, those charges were reasonable - not parcel post, and definitely not poorly packaged.
I guess this vendor got profit, made his claim and burned his bridges. You know, I've bought trains from vendors and it says (someone you have bought from before) quite often. That makes me a repeat customer. But this guy decided make his claim and hold his ground, and if it were me, I would say enjoy yourself. That's the last time I will patronize you. Cheers. Some just don't get it and probably figure a few customers are expendible and won't hurt them. Thats them feeling lucky I guess. What did Dirty Harry say? "are you feeling lucky?"
Typically when I am purchasing from EBAY the shipping charges are stated up front, no surprises. With Factory Dirct Hobbies website there is no shipping charge listed. They also do not show a minimum or standard shipping charge like some other vendors.
That would put me off. I never want to buy anything, anything at all, without knowing up front what the charges will be, at least pretty close to what shipping will be. Mystery shipping sounds like being unlucky.
I only use eBay for out of date items no longer available from other sources. I don't have a brick and mortar within 40 miles so I buy a fair amount of stuff online. I try and wait till I need at least $200 worth of goddies to help defray the shipping. When I am in the vicinity of a actual store I try and spend some of my discretionary funds.
I use eBay frequently, but on any items that are current production, I always cross check with a known vendor because eBay prices are not always the best. If it's an auction, I look at the shipping and bid accordingly. If someone outbids me, oh well, there will be another - there is ALWAYS another.
I will as a general rule not shop somewhere that does not disclose the shipping at some point before I have completed the purchase. Somethings this means going through the whole process right to the end where there is one final "submit" button, but as long as I know before I reach the stage where I cannot back out, it's good. I have yet to see anything for salew at FDT that I want, and non-BLI stuff being sold there, I can get cheaper elsewhere for the most part. So I have never purchased anythign there and if they will not disclose shipping charges prior to the completion of the sale - well, I guess I will NEVER shop there.
riogrande5761 Yep. Academic. Doughless I will say this in the seller's defense, and it may not be a good defense with most folks. He may have put a high shipping price in the listing to make sure that he doesn't get screwed over by a winner from Alaska or Hawaii. Whenever I put a low fixed rate shipping charge on a listing, I inevitably get some wise guy from California or Washington winning the sale and screwing me over for about $9 on shipping. What the seller should have done is to discount the shipping upon sending you an invoice....but....you have to request an invoice and message him to do so, not just pay right away (which is what the wise guys from the Left coast do..pay immediately so I can't adjust shipping. My loss for not keeping shipping costs high in the listing). Yes. I've had some Ebay sellers do that, or refund me the overage, rather than pocket it. Things like that will encourage repeat business and good feedback. Things like charging $25 when it was actually a fraction of that, would be burning bridges with customers.
Doughless I will say this in the seller's defense, and it may not be a good defense with most folks. He may have put a high shipping price in the listing to make sure that he doesn't get screwed over by a winner from Alaska or Hawaii. Whenever I put a low fixed rate shipping charge on a listing, I inevitably get some wise guy from California or Washington winning the sale and screwing me over for about $9 on shipping. What the seller should have done is to discount the shipping upon sending you an invoice....but....you have to request an invoice and message him to do so, not just pay right away (which is what the wise guys from the Left coast do..pay immediately so I can't adjust shipping. My loss for not keeping shipping costs high in the listing).
Agreed Jim, just to be clear about my point. The seller may not have been trying to pull a fast one here. If the buyer paid immediately with a known $25 shipping charge, the seller may not be savy enough to figure out how to do a partial refund. And the will to learn how to figure it out is minimized when he disclosed that shpping was $25 for anybody who won.
IMO, the responsibility here is for the buyer to request an invoice before paying. In doing so, ebay provides a line by line item for the seller that allows for adjustments to shipping or even to discount the item. When a buyer pays immediately, those options for the seller aren't there.
Bottom line; as a buyer, ask for an invoice and ask the seller to adjust shipping. That way if he doesn't you know that he is a bit of a crook. Otherwise its just a guess.
Edit: I see that the buyer responded to you saying that he requested an invoice.
spe3376 riogrande5761 Yes. I've had some Ebay sellers do that, or refund me the overage, rather than pocket it. Things like that will encourage repeat business and good feedback. Things like charging $25 when it was actually a fraction of that, would be burning bridges with customers. In my particular instance, I did wait for the invoice, and I did complain about the difference after the fact. The seller claimed that his time was a large component of the shipping charges, and that the parcel post was the same time in transit as First Class so I shouldn't have been complaining. Ebay didn't care because I agreed to the shipping charges when I accepted the invoice. For Priority Mail or First Class, those charges were reasonable - not parcel post, and definitely not poorly packaged.
He may have also thought that the winning bid was exceptionally low and that the excessive shipping charges helped to offset that. Not saying its appropriate, but if a seller sets the minimum bid low hoping to entice a bidding war that never arrives, the item sells for a low price. High shipping charge makes up for it.
Say he gets a high price for the item, he may adjust shipping charges down. If he gets a low price, he keeps the shipping price as disclosed.
If he felt that you got a good deal overall, he may not budge from the disclosed shipping charge.
Kind of a gray area, but not so good for customer relations.
DoughlessKind of a gray area, but not so good for customer relations.
Yep! That's the down side the seller may either be blind to or discounting the importance of repeat business. I've often seen people can be their own worst enemy.
Rio Grande 5761--
Well, they (Lombard) are probably working from the standpoint of an average price for all packages, and $14 in today's money would be about right. To their credit, it looks like two people were involved in packing my order, and one inspected the engine prior to shipping. So there is more labor there than what other places are likely involving. I received a great looking black widow RS-11 unit, and today ordered another of the same from them.
I agree that the $14 shipping is high on a small item; apparently they are using an older computer system and they just want to keep the shipping simple on their end.
Well, on Ebay I never charge a penny more than my (USPS billed) shipping cost, because people complain routinely (as if I have authority to set shipping rates). I almost always ship Priority Mail; first class usually isn't worth it anyway. I also don't send parcel post (I think in my area they discourage that anyway). If I say it ships Priority Mail, then that is how it ships.
I do not understand the stupid, moronic imbeciles who are incapable of something so basic as simply keeping their word (I was raised that your word and your handshake are or should be as good as gold): Packing it well and shipping it in the manner advertised in the listing. To do anything less is shooting your own foot off.
If the item gets broken enroute to buyer, then I am NOT happy.
John
PRR8259 Rio Grande 5761-- Well, they (Lombard) are probably working from the standpoint of an average price for all packages, and $14 in today's money would be about right. I agree that the $14 shipping is high on a small item; apparently they are using an older computer system and they just want to keep the shipping simple on their end.
Well, they (Lombard) are probably working from the standpoint of an average price for all packages, and $14 in today's money would be about right.
I spoke with someone who knew the staff several years ago and was told the owner was handicapped and due to it, shipped (at that time anyway) only UPS and did not use USPS. Apparently it was more managable to ship that way. UPS is generally higher cost and that was at the root of the somewhat higher pricing I was told at that time.
I do not understand the stupid, moronic imbeciles who are incapable of something so basic as simply keeping their word (I was raised that your word and your handshake are or should be as good as gold)
You only have to read the news and social media to come to the conclusion that generations since us have been poorly raised and we see the evidence of it all too often these days.