PRR8259 Rio Grande 5761-- Well, they (Lombard) are probably working from the standpoint of an average price for all packages, and $14 in today's money would be about right. I agree that the $14 shipping is high on a small item; apparently they are using an older computer system and they just want to keep the shipping simple on their end.
Rio Grande 5761--
Well, they (Lombard) are probably working from the standpoint of an average price for all packages, and $14 in today's money would be about right.
I agree that the $14 shipping is high on a small item; apparently they are using an older computer system and they just want to keep the shipping simple on their end.
I spoke with someone who knew the staff several years ago and was told the owner was handicapped and due to it, shipped (at that time anyway) only UPS and did not use USPS. Apparently it was more managable to ship that way. UPS is generally higher cost and that was at the root of the somewhat higher pricing I was told at that time.
I do not understand the stupid, moronic imbeciles who are incapable of something so basic as simply keeping their word (I was raised that your word and your handshake are or should be as good as gold)
You only have to read the news and social media to come to the conclusion that generations since us have been poorly raised and we see the evidence of it all too often these days.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Well, on Ebay I never charge a penny more than my (USPS billed) shipping cost, because people complain routinely (as if I have authority to set shipping rates). I almost always ship Priority Mail; first class usually isn't worth it anyway. I also don't send parcel post (I think in my area they discourage that anyway). If I say it ships Priority Mail, then that is how it ships.
I do not understand the stupid, moronic imbeciles who are incapable of something so basic as simply keeping their word (I was raised that your word and your handshake are or should be as good as gold): Packing it well and shipping it in the manner advertised in the listing. To do anything less is shooting your own foot off.
If the item gets broken enroute to buyer, then I am NOT happy.
John
Well, they (Lombard) are probably working from the standpoint of an average price for all packages, and $14 in today's money would be about right. To their credit, it looks like two people were involved in packing my order, and one inspected the engine prior to shipping. So there is more labor there than what other places are likely involving. I received a great looking black widow RS-11 unit, and today ordered another of the same from them.
DoughlessKind of a gray area, but not so good for customer relations.
Yep! That's the down side the seller may either be blind to or discounting the importance of repeat business. I've often seen people can be their own worst enemy.
spe3376 riogrande5761 Yes. I've had some Ebay sellers do that, or refund me the overage, rather than pocket it. Things like that will encourage repeat business and good feedback. Things like charging $25 when it was actually a fraction of that, would be burning bridges with customers. In my particular instance, I did wait for the invoice, and I did complain about the difference after the fact. The seller claimed that his time was a large component of the shipping charges, and that the parcel post was the same time in transit as First Class so I shouldn't have been complaining. Ebay didn't care because I agreed to the shipping charges when I accepted the invoice. For Priority Mail or First Class, those charges were reasonable - not parcel post, and definitely not poorly packaged.
riogrande5761 Yes. I've had some Ebay sellers do that, or refund me the overage, rather than pocket it. Things like that will encourage repeat business and good feedback. Things like charging $25 when it was actually a fraction of that, would be burning bridges with customers.
Yes. I've had some Ebay sellers do that, or refund me the overage, rather than pocket it. Things like that will encourage repeat business and good feedback. Things like charging $25 when it was actually a fraction of that, would be burning bridges with customers.
In my particular instance, I did wait for the invoice, and I did complain about the difference after the fact. The seller claimed that his time was a large component of the shipping charges, and that the parcel post was the same time in transit as First Class so I shouldn't have been complaining. Ebay didn't care because I agreed to the shipping charges when I accepted the invoice. For Priority Mail or First Class, those charges were reasonable - not parcel post, and definitely not poorly packaged.
He may have also thought that the winning bid was exceptionally low and that the excessive shipping charges helped to offset that. Not saying its appropriate, but if a seller sets the minimum bid low hoping to entice a bidding war that never arrives, the item sells for a low price. High shipping charge makes up for it.
Say he gets a high price for the item, he may adjust shipping charges down. If he gets a low price, he keeps the shipping price as disclosed.
If he felt that you got a good deal overall, he may not budge from the disclosed shipping charge.
Kind of a gray area, but not so good for customer relations.
- Douglas
riogrande5761 Yep. Academic. Doughless I will say this in the seller's defense, and it may not be a good defense with most folks. He may have put a high shipping price in the listing to make sure that he doesn't get screwed over by a winner from Alaska or Hawaii. Whenever I put a low fixed rate shipping charge on a listing, I inevitably get some wise guy from California or Washington winning the sale and screwing me over for about $9 on shipping. What the seller should have done is to discount the shipping upon sending you an invoice....but....you have to request an invoice and message him to do so, not just pay right away (which is what the wise guys from the Left coast do..pay immediately so I can't adjust shipping. My loss for not keeping shipping costs high in the listing). Yes. I've had some Ebay sellers do that, or refund me the overage, rather than pocket it. Things like that will encourage repeat business and good feedback. Things like charging $25 when it was actually a fraction of that, would be burning bridges with customers.
Yep. Academic.
Doughless I will say this in the seller's defense, and it may not be a good defense with most folks. He may have put a high shipping price in the listing to make sure that he doesn't get screwed over by a winner from Alaska or Hawaii. Whenever I put a low fixed rate shipping charge on a listing, I inevitably get some wise guy from California or Washington winning the sale and screwing me over for about $9 on shipping. What the seller should have done is to discount the shipping upon sending you an invoice....but....you have to request an invoice and message him to do so, not just pay right away (which is what the wise guys from the Left coast do..pay immediately so I can't adjust shipping. My loss for not keeping shipping costs high in the listing).
He may have put a high shipping price in the listing to make sure that he doesn't get screwed over by a winner from Alaska or Hawaii. Whenever I put a low fixed rate shipping charge on a listing, I inevitably get some wise guy from California or Washington winning the sale and screwing me over for about $9 on shipping.
What the seller should have done is to discount the shipping upon sending you an invoice....but....you have to request an invoice and message him to do so, not just pay right away (which is what the wise guys from the Left coast do..pay immediately so I can't adjust shipping. My loss for not keeping shipping costs high in the listing).
Agreed Jim, just to be clear about my point. The seller may not have been trying to pull a fast one here. If the buyer paid immediately with a known $25 shipping charge, the seller may not be savy enough to figure out how to do a partial refund. And the will to learn how to figure it out is minimized when he disclosed that shpping was $25 for anybody who won.
IMO, the responsibility here is for the buyer to request an invoice before paying. In doing so, ebay provides a line by line item for the seller that allows for adjustments to shipping or even to discount the item. When a buyer pays immediately, those options for the seller aren't there.
Bottom line; as a buyer, ask for an invoice and ask the seller to adjust shipping. That way if he doesn't you know that he is a bit of a crook. Otherwise its just a guess.
Edit: I see that the buyer responded to you saying that he requested an invoice.
I use eBay frequently, but on any items that are current production, I always cross check with a known vendor because eBay prices are not always the best. If it's an auction, I look at the shipping and bid accordingly. If someone outbids me, oh well, there will be another - there is ALWAYS another.
I will as a general rule not shop somewhere that does not disclose the shipping at some point before I have completed the purchase. Somethings this means going through the whole process right to the end where there is one final "submit" button, but as long as I know before I reach the stage where I cannot back out, it's good. I have yet to see anything for salew at FDT that I want, and non-BLI stuff being sold there, I can get cheaper elsewhere for the most part. So I have never purchased anythign there and if they will not disclose shipping charges prior to the completion of the sale - well, I guess I will NEVER shop there.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I only use eBay for out of date items no longer available from other sources. I don't have a brick and mortar within 40 miles so I buy a fair amount of stuff online. I try and wait till I need at least $200 worth of goddies to help defray the shipping. When I am in the vicinity of a actual store I try and spend some of my discretionary funds.
spe3376 In my particular instance, I did wait for the invoice, and I did complain about the difference after the fact. The seller claimed that his time was a large component of the shipping charges, and that the parcel post was the same time in transit as First Class so I shouldn't have been complaining. Ebay didn't care because I agreed to the shipping charges when I accepted the invoice. For Priority Mail or First Class, those charges were reasonable - not parcel post, and definitely not poorly packaged.
I guess this vendor got profit, made his claim and burned his bridges. You know, I've bought trains from vendors and it says (someone you have bought from before) quite often. That makes me a repeat customer. But this guy decided make his claim and hold his ground, and if it were me, I would say enjoy yourself. That's the last time I will patronize you. Cheers. Some just don't get it and probably figure a few customers are expendible and won't hurt them. Thats them feeling lucky I guess. What did Dirty Harry say? "are you feeling lucky?"
Typically when I am purchasing from EBAY the shipping charges are stated up front, no surprises. With Factory Dirct Hobbies website there is no shipping charge listed. They also do not show a minimum or standard shipping charge like some other vendors.
That would put me off. I never want to buy anything, anything at all, without knowing up front what the charges will be, at least pretty close to what shipping will be. Mystery shipping sounds like being unlucky.
OP here. First, I am surprised at all the comments this generated. Second, I would like to say that I see EBAY purchases quite differently. Typically when I am purchasing from EBAY the shipping charges are stated up front, no surprises. With Factory Dirct Hobbies website there is no shipping charge listed. They also do not show a minimum or standard shipping charge like some other vendors. If you search enough you can find a place at the very bottom of their page to click on shipping policy. Here they state "Shipments are charged by item weight and size excluding applicable sales tax." So, how does it cost $19.09 (over $30 if I want it quickly) to ship two small plastic items from their location in North Carolina to me in the metro St. Louis area? I have been reading all of the comments and cannot see how any of them defend this type of overcharging. I am not rying to rant here, I just feel that some people are missing the point. So, I really do appreciate all of the feedback, good, bad, or indifferent. This forum is very important to me because I really don't have anywhere to go around here for model railroading information. Thanks to all. wdcrvr
I recently bought a loco from Trainworld. Shipping was $12.99. That's not unreasonable at all - if you think so, take a look at current USPS rates. An HO loco won't fit safely in the small flat rate box, you have to go up to medium, which is the size box they shipped it to me in, and for the average person just buying one to ship something - that costs $15.05.
I think we've become jaded by 'free' shipping such as Amazn prime - but that cost is baked into the price you pay. You can get the same item cheaper elsewhere, without the Prime shipping, but then you have to pay actual shipping.
Yes, there are sellers out there really gouging on shipping, but $12-$15 for a powered loco are not outrageous amounts or examples of this.
Doughless In 40 years in the hobby, I haven't found much need to complain about shopping for items. If I don't like the way one company does something, I use one of the other 12 or the array of private sellers on ebay. Right now, I can find kadee couplers, ranging from the 20 bulk pack to a package of 2 with shipping charges of: $7, $5.55, $3.29, free, free; some having slightly lower item prices than others. Ranging from $32 for the 20 to $9 for the 2 (ouch). Boxes of Atlas rail joiners with a price of $3.99 or $4.99 with shipping charges $3.50 and $3.49. Tons more. I've never had a problem finding a variety of retailers with which to shop around. But, as I've said in other threads, I'm not waiting for that one special loco or boxcar to appear on the market. But if I was, I would be so happy that I got my one beloved item that I've been waiting for to gladly spend $25 shipping. Rare and precious is expensive, even if its just rare and precious to one person, but I've never approached trains like any one item was rare and precious. Maybe that's the difference. And if your online shopping trip ends up buying just one box of rail joiners, think of back in the day what you spent on time and gas to go to the LHS just to buy one box of rail joiners. You did the shipping to your house. Now UPS does the shipping to your house. Back in the day, most folks understood the concept of going to the LHS when they were out running other errands to disburse the cost of the gas. Buying one thing at a time costs more money to get the item to the house than if you bought other things with that same transportation cost. Always has.
In 40 years in the hobby, I haven't found much need to complain about shopping for items. If I don't like the way one company does something, I use one of the other 12 or the array of private sellers on ebay.
Right now, I can find kadee couplers, ranging from the 20 bulk pack to a package of 2 with shipping charges of: $7, $5.55, $3.29, free, free; some having slightly lower item prices than others. Ranging from $32 for the 20 to $9 for the 2 (ouch).
Boxes of Atlas rail joiners with a price of $3.99 or $4.99 with shipping charges $3.50 and $3.49. Tons more.
I've never had a problem finding a variety of retailers with which to shop around.
But, as I've said in other threads, I'm not waiting for that one special loco or boxcar to appear on the market. But if I was, I would be so happy that I got my one beloved item that I've been waiting for to gladly spend $25 shipping. Rare and precious is expensive, even if its just rare and precious to one person, but I've never approached trains like any one item was rare and precious. Maybe that's the difference.
And if your online shopping trip ends up buying just one box of rail joiners, think of back in the day what you spent on time and gas to go to the LHS just to buy one box of rail joiners. You did the shipping to your house. Now UPS does the shipping to your house. Back in the day, most folks understood the concept of going to the LHS when they were out running other errands to disburse the cost of the gas.
Buying one thing at a time costs more money to get the item to the house than if you bought other things with that same transportation cost. Always has.
DoughlessI will say this in the seller's defense, and it may not be a good defense with most folks. He may have put a high shipping price in the listing to make sure that he doesn't get screwed over by a winner from Alaska or Hawaii. Whenever I put a low fixed rate shipping charge on a listing, I inevitably get some wise guy from California or Washington winning the sale and screwing me over for about $9 on shipping. What the seller should have done is to discount the shipping upon sending you an invoice....but....you have to request an invoice and message him to do so, not just pay right away (which is what the wise guys from the Left coast do..pay immediately so I can't adjust shipping. My loss for not keeping shipping costs high in the listing).
spe3376or if the vendor gets cute and mails your envelope franked with several vintage stamps.
There are eBay sellers who do business selling "$100" (or more) in old postage stamps for a discounted price -- I recently got north of $117 for under $80. If you do lots of business shipping USPS (and you have the time and precious bodily fluids to apply large numbers of stamps to your meter-weighed small box) this is almost like coining money...
spe3376 I get this problem all the time on eBay. I had one instance where I won a lot of cabooses and the shipping charges, based on the size of the lot I had won, seemed reasonable ($25). But to receive the box and notice that the seller shipped parcel post and that the actual postage was only $8, and he used wadded up grocery bags for packing material, I was pretty ticked off.
I get this problem all the time on eBay. I had one instance where I won a lot of cabooses and the shipping charges, based on the size of the lot I had won, seemed reasonable ($25). But to receive the box and notice that the seller shipped parcel post and that the actual postage was only $8, and he used wadded up grocery bags for packing material, I was pretty ticked off.
I will say this in the seller's defense, and it may not be a good defense with most folks.
Also, if he clearly listed the item with a flat $25 shipping charge, then he may figure that the bidders are taking that into account when making their bids and it was understood that final costs would be $25 higher than the winning bid, because that's what the listing said.
And usually, the type of shipping is disclosed as part of the ddtails of the listing. If he listed it as Priority but then shipped it parcel post, regular ground to get the cheaper shipping cost, then the listing was wrong and you could possibly file a claim through ebay and get refunded the difference.
No excuses for poor packing however.
SeeYou190 If you charge $14.00 for shipping, you better not drop it in a bubble mailer and send it First Class USPS for $4.00 and pocket the difference.
If you charge $14.00 for shipping, you better not drop it in a bubble mailer and send it First Class USPS for $4.00 and pocket the difference.
On the side, I also collect some postcards and ephemera, and this type of shipping discrepancy is very prevalent there. It's not uncommon to make an eBay or other vendor purchase and pay $4-$5 for shipping and get your item in a simple letter envelope with a single forever stamp, or if the vendor gets cute and mails your envelope franked with several vintage stamps.
PRR8259OK, let's look at Lombard's pricing as an example. ... If they send me a correctly packed, brand new in box unfooled around with model, for $264 (with the $14 shipping some of you are complaining about) then I get a good model at a great price.
At that level, its "ok". Where it is not so ok is if you ordered a boxcar, you'll still be charged that $14 shipping. So Lombards shipping policy is not very flexible and only worth it for orders which can justify it, as I said. I don't think I accused them of price gouging, but for a small order, the $14 shipping is unreasonable when you can order from somoene else and pay much less shipping.
As for "correctly packed". I bought a Rapido F40PH from Lombards and it had no padding on several sides. To me, that is not "correctly" packed. Really models should have at least a little padding or cushioning on all sides. Models may survive the shipping without it, but it's a helpful as packages can have rough handling.
PRR8259If it's a cash grab by Ebay, and maybe it is, we sellers have NO control whatsoever over it.
Hi John,
I fully understand that you have no control over what the Global Shipping Program charges the buyer. I should have made that clear in my comments. I'm sorry if I upset you. Their overcharges are not the sellers fault.
If I may suggest, you do have an option which doesn't gouge your Canadian customers. That is to use USPS First Class Mail, or at least offer it as an option. I know that USPS First Class Mail doesn't offer any loss protection, but when I ask a seller in the USA if they will use the USPS, I always offer to accept responsibility if the shipment goes missing. I have made literally hundreds of purchases that were shipped by the USPS and I haven't lost one yet.
I'm glad that I bought most of my rolling stock when the shipping prices were still cheap. I rarely buy anything on eBay these days, and what I do buy has to be desireable enough to me for me to totally ignore common sense!
Take care,
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Dave--
The Ebay seller NEVER SEES the costs of the global shipping program. We ship the package to the center in Kentucky, and THEY ship it to you. WE have NO involvement whatsoever in the prices or the shipping from Erlanger, Kentucky to ANYONE outside the U.S.
If it's a cash grab by Ebay, and maybe it is, we sellers have NO control whatsoever over it.
I recently shipped a BLI Santa Fe 2-10-2 to New South Wales. In that one case I did happen to see the buyer's costs but only because he messaged me and it was somehow included. He paid something like $100 in international shipping costs, insurance, and taxes, over and above my Ebay auction fees (I built my shipping cost into the selling price in that case, and he bid $100 more than I would have sold it for to buy the model).
I prayed he would be happy with the model, and he was thrilled to get it and with the condition and the packaging it arrived in.
I do try to use a modestly sized box, in case they ship it internationally in that box, but I do not skimp on packaging.
hon30critter One of the prime offenders is the Global Shipping Program used by many eBay sellers to calculate the shipping cost to Canada where I live. The Global Shipping Program conveniently takes care of the whole process for shipping out of the USA, but its shipping charges are bogus. Typically they will add an international shipping charge to the initial shipping cost, supposedly to cover import duties. There are no import duties for any model railroad items for less than $100.00 coming into Canada, but the Global Shipping Program will add in $10 or $15 in bogus fees. The worst part is that the seller is not made aware of the bogus fees, nor do they receive and portion of those fees. It is strictly a cash grab by eBay, and it is killing the opportunity for the USA sellers to sell to Canadian customers. Using USPS First Class Mail is much less expensive (I won't say 'cheap'), and it isn't any slower than eBay's shipping program.
One of the prime offenders is the Global Shipping Program used by many eBay sellers to calculate the shipping cost to Canada where I live. The Global Shipping Program conveniently takes care of the whole process for shipping out of the USA, but its shipping charges are bogus. Typically they will add an international shipping charge to the initial shipping cost, supposedly to cover import duties. There are no import duties for any model railroad items for less than $100.00 coming into Canada, but the Global Shipping Program will add in $10 or $15 in bogus fees. The worst part is that the seller is not made aware of the bogus fees, nor do they receive and portion of those fees. It is strictly a cash grab by eBay, and it is killing the opportunity for the USA sellers to sell to Canadian customers. Using USPS First Class Mail is much less expensive (I won't say 'cheap'), and it isn't any slower than eBay's shipping program.
As an Ebay seller, I was not previously aware of this. Thanks for creating awareness on this topic.
Charles
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Modeling the PRR & NYC in HO
Youtube Channel: www.youtube.com/@trainman440
Instagram (where I share projects!): https://www.instagram.com/trainman440
I don't know any real numbers, but we are losing brick & mortar hobby shops here in Florida post-pandemic. I assume it is similar in many other places.
That means for many of us, including myself, that mail-order is now going to be the normal way of buying. No more stopping at Gulf Coast Model Railroading in Sarasota when I drive to Tampa. No more Riverdale Station when I travel to Atlanta. No more popping into Metro Trains in Fort Myers.
I guess shipping charges will be my reality now. I better get used to it.
Having a convenient place to run into for a bottle of Micro-Sol, a pair of Kadee #500 trucks, and a bottle of Vallejo paint will be sorely missed.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
PRR8259 Wow, this seems pretty harsh and completely totally unreasonable, and completely utterly ignorant of real world basic facts.
I will say "WOW" as well, but not because I agree with you. I don't.
Every business has the same costs that you mention. Nothing is free. However, some businesses seem to be able to keep their shipping costs reasonable and still make a profit, whereas others seem to need to gouge their customers on shipping costs.
Ultimately, it is your choice whether to be gouged or not. I choose to not be gouged.
Rant, rant, rant!!! Thanks for listening!
OK, let's look at Lombard's pricing as an example.
They have Rapido RS-11's in roadnames that are sold out elsewhere, for $250 for full sound/dcc version. Elsewhere, some of the same roadnames are $300 or up.
If they send me a correctly packed, brand new in box unfooled around with model, for $264 (with the $14 shipping some of you are complaining about) then I get a good model at a great price.
I just paid $321 for one from another dealer (including tax and shipping), who packed it horribly, then the USPS badly damaged the model (due to the improper packaging) and I am still waiting to actually clear my refund. The dealer is a name place some folks on these forums have mentioned, and they think they can return their poorly packed and now destroyed (nose) model to Rapido...
If my SP black widow RS-11 arrives mint from Lombard's this week, I'll consider that $14 shipping charge to have been a bargain, compared to the hassle I've had with other dealers lately.
(including 3 defective return engines IN A ROW to various other dealers. Other 2 were steam engines)
No other place that I found is selling Rapido RS-11's for $264 including the shipping, in some of the roadnames that Lombard's actually has multiple units of.
I've only ever bought one or two other items from them, but if they deliver, I can't complain about the shipping price.
When I need a decoder (or two), and perhaps a few couplers, I get them from yankeedabbler. They have a "by weight" flat charge for small items: $3.00.
Shipping charges are part of the overall cost of buying stuff, so I definitely look at it. If it's high for some thing small and inexpensive, it's no deal. It should be somewhat proportional. That's what I don't like about Lombards, although everyone worships them, and yes, they have a good inventory of goodies, but it's that standard $13.99 shipping that only makes it practical for larger orders and why I tend to only order from them occasionally and when I can "justify their" standard shipping.
I usually wait until I have a big enough order to make the shipping worthwhile.
Also I order from discount sites where the discount is more than the shipping.
And when I do an order, I look around for little items to add in.
But if I feel the shipping is too high I just kill the order.
Paul
I have seen this on ebay. A seller will have a BIN price that really looks good until you look at what they are charging for shipping then you can see it's just a ploy to add to the price without making it seem so. Kind of like what some restaurants were doing in our area long BEFORE Covid. Instead of raising food prices they would increase drink prices because a lot of people didn't notice until they got the bill, in fact one restaurant even removed their drink prices from the menu. I became an avid water drinker after that. Just give me your best price, this should include your cost of doing business after all I understand you need to make a profit, but if you try to hide it in shipping it just becomes a shell game.
Ralph
Im not justifying what they are doing, but Im trying to give a reasonable explanation as to why.
nealknows I can't speak for the one the OP mentioned since I think their deals are not that great. Just my opinion. Do your homework on what you want. The legwork is worth it... Neal
I can't speak for the one the OP mentioned since I think their deals are not that great. Just my opinion.
Do your homework on what you want. The legwork is worth it...
Neal
I agree, that's why I dont buy from them , nor trainworld unless I have to. MB clein will always be my go to.
The only way a company could make shipping charges be affected by what you order, is if every item in the inventory has an additional weight/size/shipping charge multiplier value, which in most cases, is a bit too complicated. Large companies like amazon do have that, they always show package weight and dimensions in item description.
Or, its manual, like ebay, when you request an invoice from the seller and they tell you the exact value.
Some companies will charge an upfront cost for shipping, then charge the actual amount to your card/refund the difference. IIRC, Trainworld used to do this at some point.