Track Cleaning Cars

[Jetrock]

I typically give my track a quick once-over with a gum eraser, and then sand the black gunk off the eraser at the end of the cleaning operation, once every couple of months if I haven't been operating much. Occasional runs with a John Allen car with masonite block and Wahl clipper oil. Regular operation helps keep things flowing.

[Wolf359]

I find that the "John Allen" technique of a freight car with a masonite pad works quite well for my needs. I have two boxcars that I modified for this task, and I plan to make a few more. (For different eras) The key is to make sure that the rough side of the masonite makes contact with the rails. There's even an article on building them in the "How To" section under "Tips & Projects".

[HO-Velo]

As Mr. B said, regulation of the drip rate is important with the CMX car, especially so when using lacquer thinner, though with repeated passes the surface of plastic rerailers may suffer some degree of crazing regardless.

Regards, Peter 

[Heartland Division CB&Q]

I have a train of three track cleaning cars I use in long tunnels. 

Walthers boxcar with abrasive pad under it. CMX car with lacquer thinner in it. Centerline car. 

For track that is within reach, I use lacquer thinner on a cloth rag. and I sue a bight boy track cleaner. 

 

 

I include the Walthers boxcar in the consist of regular freight trains on the mainline, and I rarely need to clean the mainline tracks with anything else. 

[Overmod]

Dorassoc1

what happens to the 'masonite pad' on turnout frogs?

It slides right over them.  Part of the point of the Masonite is that it does not form deep or defined grooves around the railheads like the Woodland Scenics pads; the frogs and point rails just contact slightly cleaner 'rough back side' fibers...

Does anyone still use Bright Boy or the Woodland Scenics product?

General consensus appeared to be that a Bright Boy is too coarse and it tends to gouge the rail beyond what can be burnished out; this might produce some of the surface effect of burnishing but down in the scratches, where the benefit might be less.

I have not tried the Woodland Scenics product, but I believe some on here have and liked it.  It looks as if it would do roughly the same as the pre-burnish progressive-grit reshaping that 'gleaming' does, but I would question just a bit that it only works longitudinally, in the limited spaces molded in the blocks, and perhaps needs more consistent pressure than 'elbow grease' via the handle would provide -- I would gin up some sort of weight system.

I've had some luck using Wahl's oil but I'm concerned it leaves a dust-collecting film on the rails.

The question appears to be whether the 'dust-collecting' aspect outweighs the nonoxidizing aspect -- I suspect much depends on local conditions.

Any of the 'top-of-rail' treatments should work best on previously-cleaned, and ideally 'gleamed' rail, as they depend somewhat on an absence of pitting or other potential cause of microarcing.  The film is not 'conductive' in its composition but it is thin enough not to impede track current; it may also suspend any 'burned' oil from arc plasma that does occur. I am tempted to say you should use Masonite cleaning every so often followed by re-establishing the thin clipper oil if you want to 'top-dress' ... but I would shape and clean the railhead before applying the oil, and I would carefully watch for buildup on your wheels and any tendency to get under or swell traction tires.  (I note Woodland Scenics has a product for wheel cleaning that is 'powered' for locomotives -- who has had experience with it?)[/quote]

[peahrens]

Dorassoc1

what happens to the 'masonite pad' on turnout frogs?

The masonite pad is quite flat, so is intended to float over frogs, points, crossings, bridge guardrails. etc.  It is fine if there are no vertical protrusions.  My track being slightly imperfect, I just put a very slight bevel at the front & back edges, to keep a square edge from catching.

[Dorassoc1]

what happens to the 'masonite pad' on turnout frogs?

Does anyone still use Bright Boy or the Woodland Scenics product?I've had some luck using Wahl's oil but I'm concerned it leaves a dust-collecting fim on the rails.

Opinions welcome.

[MisterBeasley]

I got to see the Gulliver's Gate exhibit a few years back, before they suspended operations.  Each area represented a continent, and each continent had a loop of HO track with a freight train running, all DCC controlled, by the way.

Each train represented actual trains of their lands, but I noticed a couple of anomalies.  I kept seeing Rio Grande and Canadian National boxcars everywhere on these trains, South America, Europe, Asia and so on.  I resolved to ask why.  It took a while, but I finally got to talk with their Train Guy.  That was a great opportunity, as he was thrilled to have another model railroader to show around "his" layout, and we spent quite a bit of time.

As for those boxcars?  After he told me, I immediately recognized them as standard Walthers track cleaning cars.  They hadn't gotten around to repainting them yet.  But, this was their chosen system for keeping their track clean.  With a cleaning car running all the time on every loop, they had good success.

[Dick Friedman]

Yes they do.  I made a masonite track cleaner for my N-scale RR, and I made a similar one for my Large Scale RR.  I used them dry and wet.  Wet, I used a bunch of different solvents before settling on an idea I borrowed from HO scale clubs.  I just put a small pool of Dextron III automatic transmission fluid on the rails and then ran the car through it and around the layout a couple of times.  Great stuff, AND cheap.  A quart lasts a long long time.

 

[snjroy]

I agree about the washing aspect. I use the John Allen Boxcar, and I wipe the pad with rag/alcohol. It's better to wipe it after the cleaning operation, not before: the pad gets sticky after wiping and creates a lot of drag if wet. 

While cleaning the track is important, I've focussed more on ensuring that all my locos have maximum wheel powerpickup, including my steamers. My older steamers don't have power pickups on all the drivers, but most have full power pickup on the tender wheels. I added weight on some of the tenders to maximize the power pickup. 

Simon

[BATMAN]

gfewster

Another vote for the CMX track cleaning car.  I use laquer thinner in it, have not tried much else.  I also think that it helps to change the pad frequently.  From CMX, the flannel for the cleaning pad is pricey.  I took a sample of it to my local Foams and Fabric store, and got 3 yards or so of the same material for about $7

I just wash mine (pad) with Dawn in warm water and it comes out like new. I have about 350' of track (including sidings) and run the CMX about once a year going over it all twice, changing the pad in between.

I am glad my trainroom does not require all this special cleaning for the rails as I would find that quite discouraging. 

[RR_Mel]

This entire topic on gleaming seems so strange to me.  Maybe it’s because my layout is small with only 125’ or so of a mix of code 100 (hidden areas) and code 83 flex track mainline.  I haven’t ever had any problems with dirty track other than a thin layer of dirt after a long period of non use.  I simply push my CMX with ACT-6006 around for two passes and it’s good to go.  As mentioned above the CMX is heavy and I push it with a pair of E7 power house diesels (8 oz drawbar each) up my 3½% grades

Before I bought the CMX I had a cheapie Bachmann cleaner that worked OK too, not as nice as the CMX but it did work, probably because the extra weigh of the CMX.  

I can’t remember ever having problems with nickel silver track.  I used brass flex for years on two earlier layouts of similar size and I can’t remember having problems with it either.

When I first started in HO scale (1951) I had iron rails, now that had problems out the kazoo.  200 grit all the time.

I’ve never had more than about 120’ of track on any of my four layouts and other than my first layout with iron rail no problems.

My first two layouts were in the southwest, El Paso TX & Alamogordo NM high heat low humidity tons of sandstorms.

Third was in Ogden UT, no heat to speak of some cool times high humidity.

And now in Bakersfield (Bako) CA, very high heat low humidity (not this summer) and tons and tons of dried smog from the Bay Area.  The dried smog is terrible, it will eat the paint off your car if not washed often.  It is impossible to keep it out of your house.  Everything has to be vacuumed constantly to remove the brown layer of smog.  With all that the CMX with ACT-6006 keep my trains running smoothly with a couple of passes a month, never any track problems.  

Living in the southern end of the California San Joaquin Valley has to be one of the dirtiest places in the US because of the 24/7 dried smog fallout and no track problems.    ????


Mel


 
My Model Railroad   
http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

[gfewster]

Another vote for the CMX track cleaning car.  I use laquer thinner in it, have not tried much else.  I also think that it helps to change the pad frequently.  From CMX, the flannel for the cleaning pad is pricey.  I took a sample of it to my local Foams and Fabric store, and got 3 yards or so of the same material for about $7, which should be a lifetime supply. For the initial cleaning and when the layout has not been run for a long time, I may start wet sanding with a 600 grit wet or dry paper, then the CMX car.  Not sure if that is too coarse, have also some 1200 grit, but the 600 seems to work with no bad effects that I can recognize.  Last step is a very light wipe with LaBelle 105 track conditioner.  Note that this procedure is only needed when things get really bad.  Normally, I just take a couple passes with the CMX car when there seems to be contact issues.  The CMX car usually gets pushed by two or three diesel units.

[Overmod]

ROBERT PETRICK

My thoughts regarding a 90% silver 10% copper 'gleamer' as a device to remove thin coats of gunk and oxidation on 'nickel silver' rails were to remove stubborn bits of gunk and oxidation from the rails, not to fix/remove/repair imperfections in the rail the manufacturer could not.

I think it would do that, but not as well as a Masonite pad; I think the observed value has more to do with transfer of alloyed silver.  I would have no hesitation recommending periodic post-gleaming with either .900 coin or .925 sterling to improve running conductivity and possibly reduce the effect of any arcing that does develop... and I think as a last step, after cleaning residue from any previous polishing or 'funk removal.

I know a guy who uses a polished agate disk as a gleamer. My idea is to find a round agate or torquoise 'button' about the size of a quarter, a cabachon polished flat with a slight dome on one side. Should work. Might work. Any problems widat

The cabochon is a good idea for sure, just as using the radius on the washer is; you get the inward coning effect in the burnish.  Using a stone that does not have any propensity for fine cutting, and ideally neatly matches what the Mohs hardness of rail nickel silver would be, should work nicely even if the effect of microwelding to move metal into surface asperities is no present.  This is yet another thing that should be tested and documented with photomicrographs to show precisely what the effect is.  I apologize again for being lazy and not doing so myself.

[ROBERT PETRICK]

Oiy . . . why is it so difficult to have a conversation on public forums (fora)?

In a previous life, I made carat gold jewelry for fun. A lady friend said she was alergic to gold (commercial 10K, 14K, and 18K, obviously). I made her a 24K gold ring (.9999). Has anybody here ever seen a 24K daily-wear ring? They don't look like you think they'd look.

My thoughts regarding a 90% silver 10% copper 'gleamer' as a device to remove thin coats of gunk and oxidation on 'nickel silver' rails were to remove stubborn bits of gunk and oxidation from the rails, not to fix/remove/repair imperfections in the rail the manufacturer could not.

I know a guy who uses a polished agate disk as a gleamer. My idea is to find a round agate or torquoise 'button' about the size of a quarter, a cabachon polished flat with a slight dome on one side. Round disk (no corners to catch on anything). Should work. Might work. Any problems widat?

Robert 

[Overmod]

SeeYou190

I did not suggest a theory, I was describing an application

Look, if you don't want to learn why something works, just turn the page.  Ignorance is not stupidity, but if you revel in it too much, people might start to get suspicious

The point didn't involve you by name, it involved someone who decided to use your 'last step' as the, as he put it, 'gleamer'.  And a piece of coin silver, work-hardened or not, will NOT burnish the nickel silver as the inventor of gleaming said his last step should.

I tried to point out an alternative reason why rubbing with a silver coin might approximate the 'washer trick' for someone skipping the polishing steps, but it won't take enough of the defects in the nickel silver out as the 'trick' would.

That it is a useful thing in place of hard burnishing if you polish the rails with 4000 grit final is an interesting topic for discussion -- I would continue to believe it helps, including for the reasons I gave.  On the other hand I do still -- perhaps mistakenly -- think that the hard burnishing is an advantage even after progressive abrasive polishing, and even when you post-gleam with .900 fine.

[SeeYou190]

Overmod

The coin silver is a different theory: that by rubbing along the railhead you are smearing a thin layer of silver/10% copper onto, and ostensibly filling asperities and scratches in, the nickel silver metal.

I did not suggest a theory, I was describing an application.

All I can do is relay my actual real world experiences. I know nothing of metallurgy or chemistry, or even words like "ostensibly".

The silver coin method has served me well, but it might not be doing anything at all. Maybe just sanding with 4,000 grit to a polished shine and running the masonite JA special is doing all the work.

I will gladly share my methods and my results in a truthful manner, and even post pictures of my process, but that is the depth of my ability to participate.

-Kevin

[Overmod]

ROBERT PETRICK

One thing I also might try is to take Kevin's idea of using an old 90% silver quarter as the gleamer, and attaching it to the roofing nail with a small glop of contact cement the same way the Masonite pad is housed. Seems like that might work.

The only problem is that coin silver won't burnish nickel silver -- which is about six times as hard as coin silver, perhaps harder in the as-drawn state in model-railroad rail metal.  To burnish that you need something harder than Rockwell B 65 or so -- hence the stainless washer that work-hardens as you use it.

The coin silver is a different theory: that by rubbing along the railhead you are smearing a thin layer of silver/10% copper onto, and ostensibly filling asperities and scratches in, the nickel silver metal.  I was made fun of for suggesting direct plate on wheels of a thicker layer than this would likely provide... not that I'm saying it wouldn't work.  But do the actual gleaming with a hard burnish before using the silver rub.

[MisterBeasley]

starman

Thanks to all who replied to my question.  It looks like a CMX car is in my future.

When I got into models railroading, I told my wife it was a fairly inexpensive hobby and it would keep me home in retirement.  No problem with the staying at home part because there is little left over after paying for this “inexpensive” hobby!!  LOL

Jack

A hockey friend was getting berated by his wife for spending so much time at the rink.."Would you prefer that I spend my nights with a bunch of smelly guys, or at a gentleman's club with a bunch of smelly girls?" It seems to me that this could be a pretty good excuse for the odor of lacquer thinner in the train room.

By the way, if the lacquer thinner smell is strong, you need to adjust the fluid drip rate down a bit.

[ROBERT PETRICK]

starman

Do track cleaning cars really work?  If so, can you suggest one that works for you.  Thanks.

Jack

I haven't read all of the responses to this post (this topic comes up regularly), but I will add (if not already mentioned) that a cleaning car is only one piece of the cleaning regime arsenal.

Mine starts with a piece of an old t-shirt rolled into a tight ball and dipped into 91% alcohol. I clean all the easily accessible areas, checking the skid marks to see how the gunk is getting picked up and to see where to keep cleaning.

I also have a CMX tank car filled with alcohol that I run all over the layout in both directions.

I also have an Aztec Centerline cleaning car. It is a low-wall gondola with the floor cut out, and has a series of brass drums that protrude through the floor like a depressed center flat car. One drum is covered with a hard plastic mesh sort of thing and acts as a scrubbing pad. Another drum is covered with strips of handi-wipes, and you follow those around with a bottle of alcohol and an eyedropper adding a few drops every once in awhile; kinda like a semi-automatic version of the CMX car. A third drum is covered with a rubbery abrasive material similar to a bright boy. So, one technique is to run the CMX car followed by the Centerline car with the drum covered with dry handy wipes.

I don't have the Masonite pad style car, but that seems easy enough to construct and I might try it out one of these days.

One thing I also might try is to take Kevin's idea of using an old 90% silver quarter as the gleamer, and attaching it to the roofing nail with a small glop of contact cement the same way the Masonite pad is housed. Seems like that might work.

Robert 

[SeeYou190]

starman

No problem with the staying at home part because there is little left over after paying for this “inexpensive” hobby!! 

It wasn't me that told you that!

As long as you are having fun, it is always worth it.

-Kevin

[starman]

Thanks to all who replied to my question.  It looks like a CMX car is in my future.

When I got into models railroading, I told my wife it was a fairly inexpensive hobby and it would keep me home in retirement.  No problem with the staying at home part because there is little left over after paying for this “inexpensive” hobby!!  LOL

Jack

[rrebell]

CMX car, really it is a TTX which owned the tooling before. The currant owners are great too, sent me new seals. I have tried a bunch of cars but the CMX is best.

[cowman]

Got my CMX car off ebay for less than 2/3 retail.  Set up a saved search and was notified anytme one came up on the site.  Have seen one other go for about the same price.  Yes,  it's used and tarnished (brass), but that doesn't seem to effect it's work.  

Had a new modeler (Lionel type) stop in today.  Hadn't run a train for awhile.  Didn't put any cleaner on the pad, first time around a couple of stall spots, after that no problems.  The car is heavy, so it takes some horse power to push or pull it around, other than that, works great.

Have a Bachmann tank car with pad, certainly helps, but only on the tracks were it runs regularly.  As Mr B mentioned, the CMX is good on sidings and staging, with it's weight push in, pull out and done.  

Goof luck,

Richard

[Overmod]

BigDaddy

Oddly enough I just received a short information video from another publication which claims that micro arcing between the wheels and the track are the cause of dirty track.  The solution is to treat the track with something to prevent microarcing.

Nothing 'new' about this so-called revelation; it's been understood as one of the chief reasons for the 'improved' version of gleaming for a long time, as well as an explanation for where the black gunk comes from.

The best-wisdom answer is to polish the track to remove microabrasions and draw marks on the railhead, then burnish to close any remaining asperities and shape the railhead and fillet contact (and some of the flange face, with a post-burnish polishing, if a perfectionist).  After which you can (1) run the Masonite boxcars regularly to keep any scurf off the metallurgy, or (2) periodically wet-clean eith something that evaporates readily, can address any 'oxidation' of either the nickel silver or any contamination, and causes no deposit itself, or (3) use a TOR treatment that spreads into as thin a dielectric layer as possible to exclude air from the rail metal and keep contaminants from actually bonding and causing contact interruption ... which would be followed by microarcing, probably worse on the power-supply-rail-to-rail swing of DCC track power.  This is what the Wahl oil, ATF, No-ox-id and other stuff sometimes referred to as "nonpolar" do; they don't have that much effect on adhesion but the 'wrong' ones can have a poor effect on traction tires, if present, in a variety of ways.  What I suspect the mystery presentation will try to do is say that their snake oil precludes microarcing without physical track prep -- which is sometimes valid, as far as it goes, but a bit like applying WD40 to keep a bad bearing from squeaking for a while... 

It's fun to watch electrical guys talk about contact cleaner as if the physics in a typical switch were like those of wheel-rail contact in typical scale modeling. It is not that hard to figure out the various things that are likely going on there, including plausible effects of poor contact on the various TOR 'treatments' applied in the absence of proper reshaping and polishing.

Jury is still out on whether it would be better for the 'washer trick' to transfer chromium, or whether a good graphite stick without the wrong binders might make a better TOR treatment, being actually conductive...

Personally I am inclined to the camp of periodic Masonite cleaning followed by thin-film TOR renewal spreading... if you are a TOR proponent.  And while I've tried to get around the need to clean and treat wheels periodically, I just can't shake the idea that you periodically inspect and clean when necessary.

[BigDaddy]

SeeYou190

On a layout that runs that much, I doubt the track cleaning car is needed.

Oddly enough I just received a short information video from another publication which claims that micro arcing between the wheels and the track are the cause of dirty track.  The solution is to treat the track with something to prevent microarcing.

What you ask?  Dunno, it was a teaser video.  Either there is a product to buy or a video to reveal the secret.

[jjdamnit]

Hello All,

I purchased a "motorized" DAPOL HO Track Cleaner (B808) Maintenance Of Way car.

This unit has a reservoir for cleaning fluid that drips onto a piece of foam that presses against the tracks.

It also has a "motorized" function.

The motor does not propel the car. What the motor does is turn a downward-facing spindle. 

From the factory, the car comes equipped with the "vacuum" attachment. This is basically an impeller blade that vacuums the track.

The vacuum attachment can be removed and a spindle with a pad mount can be put in place. Two sets of pads are included with the car along with a tool for removing and attaching the vacuum fan and pad holder.

One set of pads is a coarse fabric and the other is a super-fine grit. These can be used dry or with the proprietary track cleaning fluid (not included). I have not used either of these pads, yet.

You can use this car as a drip-type track cleaner, only the vacuum/polishing function, or both simultaneously. There is an on/off button on the top of the car when running in DC.

An NMRA 8-pin plug is installed so a decoder can be used to control the motor.

One caveat is the maximum voltage for the motor is 9v DC- -as specified by the manufacturer. Overvoltage may result in overheating. Tabs from the wheel pickups to the motor are a "fuse" type that will "break" before any damage to the motor occurs.

Unfortunately, spares are not included and have to be ordered separately.

When running DCC the motor control of the decoder determines the voltage received by the car.

When running 128-speed steps, at speed-step 32- -by ear- -it sounds about right.

Yes, this is an expensive outlay compared to other options.

I can attest that the vacuum function does work. Our cat loves to sleep on the layout which leaves hair that gets caught up in the pickups of the motive power.

After running this car around the layout the amount of cat hair it picks up is significant.

Hope this helps.

["JaBear"]

Gidday Jack, three of my "John Allen" masonite track cleaning cars.

DSCF6492 by Bear, on Flickr

[peahrens]

starman

what is “gleaming” your track?

For track gleaming, see the description by Jeffrey Wimberly about 4 posts down in this thread:

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/212742.aspx

starman

so far, I have not found anything about a "John Allen" Masonite car.  Does anybody have a specific site address for this.

For building a masonite pad track cleaning car, here is one video.  There are variations that can work; e.g., weighting the pad (from above the car floor) or spring loading it (below the floor).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VslvfBWkVBc

On the CMX car cost, yes, it is pricey but a very good product.  If running DCC with sound, brief contact interruptions cause the sound to hiccup (if the loco lacks a keep alive type capacitor), even if the loco continues ahead, quite annoying.  It was worth it for me as part of having a robust system.