Do track cleaning cars really work? If so, can you suggest one that works for you. Thanks.
Jack
1. CMX car, occasional, with denatured alcohol or lacquer thinner
2. Routine running of "John Allen" masonite par in freight trains. A BB boxcar with weight and pad added. See related YouTube videos on making one. Two shown here:
IMG_7628 by Paul Ahrens, on Flickr
Besides that, I had "gleamed" my track when installed in 2012. Plus add metal wheelsets to most cars. The overall system works well for me.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
I do not have a CMX car, but other than that, I do everything as Paul descibed.
I gleam my track, everything has metal wheels, and just use the home made "John Allen" Masonite car.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
The CMX has worked great for me, I use Aero Car Hobby Lubricants ACT-6006 cleaning fluid in mine. I push it twice around my layout about once a month and in my yard after a dust storm. I have a long hidden siding and the first trip is the mainline the second gets the siding. One pass works very good.I bought two 8 oz bottles of the ACT-6006 ten years ago and the first bottle is about almost gone.Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
In using masonite, how to prevent the wood fibers from getting stuck on the track? This topic has reappeared a few times in various places. Intersting ways others make their own track cleaning cars.
There is not enough weight on the pad to cause it to have fibers come off.
There is a masonite track cleaning car running at Gulf Coast Model Railroading in Sarasota 8 hours a day, 6 days a week, and its pad still has no real visible wear.
On a layout that runs that much, I doubt the track cleaning car is needed.
My CMX works very good but you are correct about it being pricy. I bought mine about 10 or twelve years ago and the price back then wasn’t to bad. I think I gave about $40 for it back then.I tried several cleaners in it and I got the best results using the Auto Car Hobby Lubricants ACT-6006 so I have stuck with it. They claim it has a non slip residual contact film to improve conductivity and it works very good for me.
Here is a link to the John Allen Site.
http://gdlines.org/GDLines/index.htmlMel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
starmanI guess this shows just how new I am to model railroading, but what is “gleaming” your track? I have also searched You Tube, and so far, I have not found anything about a "John Allen" Masonite car. Does anybody have a specific site address for this. I have also found a CMX cleaning car on line. They are a little pricy!
Jack: A masonite track cleaning car is any, preferably not expensive, boxcar.
You drill two holes thru the weight and center sill of a diameter to let a nail slide easily in the holes. Then cut a piece of masonite of a size to fit between the wheels and rest on both rails. Epoxy the nails on the smooth side of the masonite, roungh side to the rails, so that when the car is moved, the pad rubs the rails ligthly. Then just use the car in regular service, so that it goes everywhere. Occasionally rub the masonite with something to remove dirt.
Larger layouts might need more than one car.
As also noted above, the more you operate trains, the less cleaning needed.
I also use a CMX car. I've tried both alcohol and lacquer thinner, but the lacquer thinner works much better.
I had subways, so hand cleaning just wasn't practical. I had always planned on the CMX car, and finally got one. It's a very good product.
It is designed to be pulled around by a locomotive, but for yards, especially with a lot of tracks, just pushing it back and forth by hand is quicker.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
"Gleaming" is carefully polishing and shaping, then burnishing the railheads. We have had a couple of exhaustive review discussions, including a post by the 'inventor' describing where he got the idea, within the past several weeks -- just look for threads with track cleaning in them!
I wonder if the Wahl clipper-oil faction has tried ACT-3753 formula, which I think has more 'lubricant' property.
The two things I regret not buying early on in my return to the hobby are a soldering station and my CMX track cleaner car. To me both were worth every penny. I think the investment in the CMX car can be measured by how much track one has to clean and how often. It was a good move for me.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
starmanwhat is “gleaming” your track?
For track gleaming, see the description by Jeffrey Wimberly about 4 posts down in this thread:
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/212742.aspx
starmanso far, I have not found anything about a "John Allen" Masonite car. Does anybody have a specific site address for this.
For building a masonite pad track cleaning car, here is one video. There are variations that can work; e.g., weighting the pad (from above the car floor) or spring loading it (below the floor).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VslvfBWkVBc
On the CMX car cost, yes, it is pricey but a very good product. If running DCC with sound, brief contact interruptions cause the sound to hiccup (if the loco lacks a keep alive type capacitor), even if the loco continues ahead, quite annoying. It was worth it for me as part of having a robust system.
Gidday Jack, three of my "John Allen" masonite track cleaning cars.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Hello All,
I purchased a "motorized" DAPOL HO Track Cleaner (B808) Maintenance Of Way car.
This unit has a reservoir for cleaning fluid that drips onto a piece of foam that presses against the tracks.
It also has a "motorized" function.
The motor does not propel the car. What the motor does is turn a downward-facing spindle.
From the factory, the car comes equipped with the "vacuum" attachment. This is basically an impeller blade that vacuums the track.
The vacuum attachment can be removed and a spindle with a pad mount can be put in place. Two sets of pads are included with the car along with a tool for removing and attaching the vacuum fan and pad holder.
One set of pads is a coarse fabric and the other is a super-fine grit. These can be used dry or with the proprietary track cleaning fluid (not included). I have not used either of these pads, yet.
You can use this car as a drip-type track cleaner, only the vacuum/polishing function, or both simultaneously. There is an on/off button on the top of the car when running in DC.
An NMRA 8-pin plug is installed so a decoder can be used to control the motor.
One caveat is the maximum voltage for the motor is 9v DC- -as specified by the manufacturer. Overvoltage may result in overheating. Tabs from the wheel pickups to the motor are a "fuse" type that will "break" before any damage to the motor occurs.
Unfortunately, spares are not included and have to be ordered separately.
When running DCC the motor control of the decoder determines the voltage received by the car.
When running 128-speed steps, at speed-step 32- -by ear- -it sounds about right.
Yes, this is an expensive outlay compared to other options.
I can attest that the vacuum function does work. Our cat loves to sleep on the layout which leaves hair that gets caught up in the pickups of the motive power.
After running this car around the layout the amount of cat hair it picks up is significant.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
SeeYou190On a layout that runs that much, I doubt the track cleaning car is needed.
Oddly enough I just received a short information video from another publication which claims that micro arcing between the wheels and the track are the cause of dirty track. The solution is to treat the track with something to prevent microarcing.
What you ask? Dunno, it was a teaser video. Either there is a product to buy or a video to reveal the secret.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
BigDaddyOddly enough I just received a short information video from another publication which claims that micro arcing between the wheels and the track are the cause of dirty track. The solution is to treat the track with something to prevent microarcing.
The best-wisdom answer is to polish the track to remove microabrasions and draw marks on the railhead, then burnish to close any remaining asperities and shape the railhead and fillet contact (and some of the flange face, with a post-burnish polishing, if a perfectionist). After which you can (1) run the Masonite boxcars regularly to keep any scurf off the metallurgy, or (2) periodically wet-clean eith something that evaporates readily, can address any 'oxidation' of either the nickel silver or any contamination, and causes no deposit itself, or (3) use a TOR treatment that spreads into as thin a dielectric layer as possible to exclude air from the rail metal and keep contaminants from actually bonding and causing contact interruption ... which would be followed by microarcing, probably worse on the power-supply-rail-to-rail swing of DCC track power. This is what the Wahl oil, ATF, No-ox-id and other stuff sometimes referred to as "nonpolar" do; they don't have that much effect on adhesion but the 'wrong' ones can have a poor effect on traction tires, if present, in a variety of ways. What I suspect the mystery presentation will try to do is say that their snake oil precludes microarcing without physical track prep -- which is sometimes valid, as far as it goes, but a bit like applying WD40 to keep a bad bearing from squeaking for a while...
It's fun to watch electrical guys talk about contact cleaner as if the physics in a typical switch were like those of wheel-rail contact in typical scale modeling. It is not that hard to figure out the various things that are likely going on there, including plausible effects of poor contact on the various TOR 'treatments' applied in the absence of proper reshaping and polishing.
Jury is still out on whether it would be better for the 'washer trick' to transfer chromium, or whether a good graphite stick without the wrong binders might make a better TOR treatment, being actually conductive...
Personally I am inclined to the camp of periodic Masonite cleaning followed by thin-film TOR renewal spreading... if you are a TOR proponent. And while I've tried to get around the need to clean and treat wheels periodically, I just can't shake the idea that you periodically inspect and clean when necessary.
Got my CMX car off ebay for less than 2/3 retail. Set up a saved search and was notified anytme one came up on the site. Have seen one other go for about the same price. Yes, it's used and tarnished (brass), but that doesn't seem to effect it's work.
Had a new modeler (Lionel type) stop in today. Hadn't run a train for awhile. Didn't put any cleaner on the pad, first time around a couple of stall spots, after that no problems. The car is heavy, so it takes some horse power to push or pull it around, other than that, works great.
Have a Bachmann tank car with pad, certainly helps, but only on the tracks were it runs regularly. As Mr B mentioned, the CMX is good on sidings and staging, with it's weight push in, pull out and done.
Goof luck,
Richard
CMX car, really it is a TTX which owned the tooling before. The currant owners are great too, sent me new seals. I have tried a bunch of cars but the CMX is best.
starman No problem with the staying at home part because there is little left over after paying for this “inexpensive” hobby!!
It wasn't me that told you that!
As long as you are having fun, it is always worth it.
starman Do track cleaning cars really work? If so, can you suggest one that works for you. Thanks. Jack
I haven't read all of the responses to this post (this topic comes up regularly), but I will add (if not already mentioned) that a cleaning car is only one piece of the cleaning regime arsenal.
Mine starts with a piece of an old t-shirt rolled into a tight ball and dipped into 91% alcohol. I clean all the easily accessible areas, checking the skid marks to see how the gunk is getting picked up and to see where to keep cleaning.
I also have a CMX tank car filled with alcohol that I run all over the layout in both directions.
I also have an Aztec Centerline cleaning car. It is a low-wall gondola with the floor cut out, and has a series of brass drums that protrude through the floor like a depressed center flat car. One drum is covered with a hard plastic mesh sort of thing and acts as a scrubbing pad. Another drum is covered with strips of handi-wipes, and you follow those around with a bottle of alcohol and an eyedropper adding a few drops every once in awhile; kinda like a semi-automatic version of the CMX car. A third drum is covered with a rubbery abrasive material similar to a bright boy. So, one technique is to run the CMX car followed by the Centerline car with the drum covered with dry handy wipes.
I don't have the Masonite pad style car, but that seems easy enough to construct and I might try it out one of these days.
One thing I also might try is to take Kevin's idea of using an old 90% silver quarter as the gleamer, and attaching it to the roofing nail with a small glop of contact cement the same way the Masonite pad is housed. Seems like that might work.
Robert
LINK to SNSR Blog
starman Thanks to all who replied to my question. It looks like a CMX car is in my future. When I got into models railroading, I told my wife it was a fairly inexpensive hobby and it would keep me home in retirement. No problem with the staying at home part because there is little left over after paying for this “inexpensive” hobby!! LOL Jack
A hockey friend was getting berated by his wife for spending so much time at the rink.."Would you prefer that I spend my nights with a bunch of smelly guys, or at a gentleman's club with a bunch of smelly girls?" It seems to me that this could be a pretty good excuse for the odor of lacquer thinner in the train room.
By the way, if the lacquer thinner smell is strong, you need to adjust the fluid drip rate down a bit.
ROBERT PETRICKOne thing I also might try is to take Kevin's idea of using an old 90% silver quarter as the gleamer, and attaching it to the roofing nail with a small glop of contact cement the same way the Masonite pad is housed. Seems like that might work.
The coin silver is a different theory: that by rubbing along the railhead you are smearing a thin layer of silver/10% copper onto, and ostensibly filling asperities and scratches in, the nickel silver metal. I was made fun of for suggesting direct plate on wheels of a thicker layer than this would likely provide... not that I'm saying it wouldn't work. But do the actual gleaming with a hard burnish before using the silver rub.
OvermodThe coin silver is a different theory: that by rubbing along the railhead you are smearing a thin layer of silver/10% copper onto, and ostensibly filling asperities and scratches in, the nickel silver metal.
I did not suggest a theory, I was describing an application.
All I can do is relay my actual real world experiences. I know nothing of metallurgy or chemistry, or even words like "ostensibly".
The silver coin method has served me well, but it might not be doing anything at all. Maybe just sanding with 4,000 grit to a polished shine and running the masonite JA special is doing all the work.
I will gladly share my methods and my results in a truthful manner, and even post pictures of my process, but that is the depth of my ability to participate.
SeeYou190I did not suggest a theory, I was describing an application
The point didn't involve you by name, it involved someone who decided to use your 'last step' as the, as he put it, 'gleamer'. And a piece of coin silver, work-hardened or not, will NOT burnish the nickel silver as the inventor of gleaming said his last step should.
I tried to point out an alternative reason why rubbing with a silver coin might approximate the 'washer trick' for someone skipping the polishing steps, but it won't take enough of the defects in the nickel silver out as the 'trick' would.
That it is a useful thing in place of hard burnishing if you polish the rails with 4000 grit final is an interesting topic for discussion -- I would continue to believe it helps, including for the reasons I gave. On the other hand I do still -- perhaps mistakenly -- think that the hard burnishing is an advantage even after progressive abrasive polishing, and even when you post-gleam with .900 fine.
Oiy . . . why is it so difficult to have a conversation on public forums (fora)?
In a previous life, I made carat gold jewelry for fun. A lady friend said she was alergic to gold (commercial 10K, 14K, and 18K, obviously). I made her a 24K gold ring (.9999). Has anybody here ever seen a 24K daily-wear ring? They don't look like you think they'd look.
My thoughts regarding a 90% silver 10% copper 'gleamer' as a device to remove thin coats of gunk and oxidation on 'nickel silver' rails were to remove stubborn bits of gunk and oxidation from the rails, not to fix/remove/repair imperfections in the rail the manufacturer could not.
I know a guy who uses a polished agate disk as a gleamer. My idea is to find a round agate or torquoise 'button' about the size of a quarter, a cabachon polished flat with a slight dome on one side. Round disk (no corners to catch on anything). Should work. Might work. Any problems widat?
ROBERT PETRICKMy thoughts regarding a 90% silver 10% copper 'gleamer' as a device to remove thin coats of gunk and oxidation on 'nickel silver' rails were to remove stubborn bits of gunk and oxidation from the rails, not to fix/remove/repair imperfections in the rail the manufacturer could not.
I know a guy who uses a polished agate disk as a gleamer. My idea is to find a round agate or torquoise 'button' about the size of a quarter, a cabachon polished flat with a slight dome on one side. Should work. Might work. Any problems widat
Another vote for the CMX track cleaning car. I use laquer thinner in it, have not tried much else. I also think that it helps to change the pad frequently. From CMX, the flannel for the cleaning pad is pricey. I took a sample of it to my local Foams and Fabric store, and got 3 yards or so of the same material for about $7, which should be a lifetime supply. For the initial cleaning and when the layout has not been run for a long time, I may start wet sanding with a 600 grit wet or dry paper, then the CMX car. Not sure if that is too coarse, have also some 1200 grit, but the 600 seems to work with no bad effects that I can recognize. Last step is a very light wipe with LaBelle 105 track conditioner. Note that this procedure is only needed when things get really bad. Normally, I just take a couple passes with the CMX car when there seems to be contact issues. The CMX car usually gets pushed by two or three diesel units.
This entire topic on gleaming seems so strange to me. Maybe it’s because my layout is small with only 125’ or so of a mix of code 100 (hidden areas) and code 83 flex track mainline. I haven’t ever had any problems with dirty track other than a thin layer of dirt after a long period of non use. I simply push my CMX with ACT-6006 around for two passes and it’s good to go. As mentioned above the CMX is heavy and I push it with a pair of E7 power house diesels (8 oz drawbar each) up my 3½% gradesBefore I bought the CMX I had a cheapie Bachmann cleaner that worked OK too, not as nice as the CMX but it did work, probably because the extra weigh of the CMX. I can’t remember ever having problems with nickel silver track. I used brass flex for years on two earlier layouts of similar size and I can’t remember having problems with it either.When I first started in HO scale (1951) I had iron rails, now that had problems out the kazoo. 200 grit all the time.I’ve never had more than about 120’ of track on any of my four layouts and other than my first layout with iron rail no problems.My first two layouts were in the southwest, El Paso TX & Alamogordo NM high heat low humidity tons of sandstorms.Third was in Ogden UT, no heat to speak of some cool times high humidity.And now in Bakersfield (Bako) CA, very high heat low humidity (not this summer) and tons and tons of dried smog from the Bay Area. The dried smog is terrible, it will eat the paint off your car if not washed often. It is impossible to keep it out of your house. Everything has to be vacuumed constantly to remove the brown layer of smog. With all that the CMX with ACT-6006 keep my trains running smoothly with a couple of passes a month, never any track problems. Living in the southern end of the California San Joaquin Valley has to be one of the dirtiest places in the US because of the 24/7 dried smog fallout and no track problems. ???? Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.