I've noticed a significant drop in activity in most all of the forums I participate. This thread drop is probably seasonal as mentioned. We are outdoors or on vacation the next couple months.
Nearly every other forum, of totally different interests, often descends into polital or virus discussion arguments by just a few members thus turning the regulars off and scaring newbies away.
This site has been great at avoiding that stuff. Thanks guys!
This is the only forum that I post anything on. I am a year round modeler, but I don't post a lot because I don't have much to say!
Chuck - Modeling in HO scale and anything narrow gauge
I frequent at least five different fora daily. They have all suffered lower participation. The Canadian Model Train Forum just switched their software a few weeks back and still haven’t come close to their previous activity.
Each of us makes careful, but also emotional, choices in this hobby, and we don’t like hearing others tear them down about running qualities, incorrect details, mismatched paints compared to Brand A’s truly excellent and accurate version (which they just happen to own). Goya often devolve to argumentation and hot tempers, and soon to ad hominem when they run out of cogent logic or facts.
i like it here, and on the other places. Some stick it out, as they do I in less-than-perfect marriages. The best of us b..tech and try to get some things to change. The worst seek greener pastures, but will often offer nothing much of themselves, or too much, over there.
i add my thanks to our hosts, to Steve, and to Tom who is doing his second shift as a volunteer.
The secret to facebook is to unfriend anyone who wants to post daily political comments. Even if they are the same political persuasion, you will get sucked into arguments with their friends on the other side.
Unfriend anyone who constantly sends these stupid games where your favorite color and number determines what type of person you are.
We all know people whose life revolves around complaining, unfriend them.
Realize Facebook algorithms control who and what you see, and don't see. Liking organizations or businesses doesn't necessarily mean you will see their posts. Sometimes you still have to search them out.
Join or follow groups that you will learn something. I try to follow
The last 3 are groups you can join, the first 4 are hit or miss as to whether you see some all or none of their posts, but there are interesting pics to be seen in the historical pages.
I physically have to go to Rapido, Bowser, MR facebook pages to see their posts,
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
I’m older than dirt and with that comes declining health. When all I can do is sit at my workbench/computer workstation the MR Forum fills in the gaps. Thanks guys and gals!
SeeYou190 I have found a home at the Model Railroader forums. The moderation that Steve-O provides is what keeps me here. I will never join the insanity at Face Book. Let me say in closing, another well deserved "Thank You" to Steven Otte and the team at Model Railroader and Kalmbach Media. -Kevin
I have found a home at the Model Railroader forums. The moderation that Steve-O provides is what keeps me here. I will never join the insanity at Face Book.
Let me say in closing, another well deserved "Thank You" to Steven Otte and the team at Model Railroader and Kalmbach Media.
-Kevin
Like Kevin to me Face Book is total insanity . . . . I too have found a home at the Model Railroader Forum.Hats off to Steven Otte, Tom (tstage) and Kalmbach for making the Forum available to me.
THANK YOU Kalmbach!!!
Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
Also back to original subject, I accually enjoy when things go off topic, people get into their lives and how they feel, just like in real life, instead of a structured convesation. And telling us not to discuse the virus is like excluding what the whole world is talking about, train forum or not.
PRR8259Respectfully submitted-- John
John, you sound very bitter. Unfortunately what you discussed summarizes much of the vagaries of social media. I've been on forums since I was college freshman in 1977 and have found over the years you need a thick skin. It's only gotten worse as social media has expanded. Of course it helps if moderation is fairly strict to keep things to a dull roar. For some, best thing to do is find a place of like minded people, which helps minimize conflict over differing philosophies and hopefully fewer trolls.
My wife was a FB member of a British ex-patriot chat group because she wanted to read and talk about things of England, food, jokes whatever. But the people there were all a bunch of complainer and were extremely negative all the time to the point where it was a major downer. She found another same type group that was moderated well and it's been a nice place to hangout. Anyone who is mean or distruptive is fairly quickly banned. Moderation is a big part of how pleasant or unpleasant a forums or chat group can be for sure.
As for the accusations of shill, I could never take those posts seriously. They seem like nothing but 100% troll comments. There is a saying: "Never argue with an idiot/troll. They'll only bring you down to their level and beat you with experiece." Trolls exist to bait people and draw them into getting defenesive and reacting. They crave attention. Nothing is worse for a troll than to be ignored. So ignore them. Or, if social media is too difficult to deal with, walk away. I have to do that with somethings at times; but I don't necessarily stop participating all together.
As to the subject here, yes, summer tends to be a slow time for participation as the hobby is somehwat seasonal. There may be other factors that have added to it as well, which other have mentioned.
I tend to gravitate to forums where discussion is of more interest to me, model trains and prototypes as well. Here it is a bit more of a social club / coffee klutch for many of the longer term members - not my bag, nor is the whimsical stuff only tenuously related to trains (cleverlycrafted that way to avoid being deleted). I wonder if that has something to do with the observed lack of interested by MR staff, and if anything a tolerated irritation for the sake of "good will". I could be wrong. Then we have the occasional new member who has some odd and randome ideas to banter about. Some are hyper active. It's an interesting place to be sure.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
PRR8259 With Ebay degenerating all the time, Facebook provides other opportunities for willing buyers and willing sellers to connect without having to pay ANY FEES. So those of you who hate the very concept of Facebook might want to reconsider it as a place where people are trading trains now, outside of Ebay. There is a perception that "only the junk dealers" are still on Ebay. Maybe that is why my personal stuff is just not selling anymore like it once did. John
With Ebay degenerating all the time, Facebook provides other opportunities for willing buyers and willing sellers to connect without having to pay ANY FEES.
So those of you who hate the very concept of Facebook might want to reconsider it as a place where people are trading trains now, outside of Ebay.
There is a perception that "only the junk dealers" are still on Ebay. Maybe that is why my personal stuff is just not selling anymore like it once did.
John
PRR8259I for one am sick and tired of dealing with certain people who always have to have the last word, even on a topic in which they should have little or no interest, in a discussion that really doesn't or shouldn't involve them at all, since again, it (the topic) lies outside their interest.
That can be a little annoying for sure, when a topic turns into a lively discussion between two people that actually know very little about the topic that is being discussed.
What annoys me (and this happens on EVERY forum, this is not about Kalmbach) are the folks that post replies as though they are experts about something they actually do not understand.
I am an expert in one thing. Seriously, I am recognized by the State of Florida as a witness that can testify in court as an expert on this one subject. Every so often someone posts something that is completely wrong on the one thing I truly have a depth of knowledge about. They usually use big words and nonsense theories to sound like they know what they are saying, but it is obvious that they are either recycling a lie they read somewhere else or just making things up.
Other than that, I am very happy here. I have found a home at the Model Railroader forums. The moderation that Steve-O provides is what keeps me here. I will never join the insanity at Face Book.
Before I was here, I had a home on the Warseer forums for ten years, but they kicked me out, so I searched for a new home, and landed here.
I was a moderator on two forums back in the early (pre-Warseer) days, and I know what a terrible job that is. I would not want to do it again.
Living the dream.
Tinplate Toddler Better nothing than just anything, which hardly works.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Tinplate Toddler is the lack of interest our host seems to display, as said before. You're right, but does it really help to bite the hand of the host?? Better something than nothing. the Bear.
Tinplate Toddler
is the lack of interest our host seems to display, as said before.
You're right, but does it really help to bite the hand of the host?? Better something than nothing.
the Bear.
Wrong answer - a forum with ever declining usage and malfunctioning software behind is certainly not giving our host the image he derserves. Better nothing than just anything, which hardly works.
Don´t forget, we have been promised an upgraded, updated software for way too long a time by now.
Happy times!
Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)
"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"
mlehmanIf a hungry, hungry bear has that advice, it's probably good to not just chew at things. Kalmbach has been a pretty good host compared to many over a longer time than most. It's their privilege to run things as suits their needs and goals.he tend to run a pretty family-oriented operation and I think that drives their aversion to some of the rougher edges that some would prefer.
Mike,
I sent you a couple of PMs on a different topic.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Tinplate Toddler is the lack of interest our host seems to display, as said before.
If a hungry, hungry bear has that advice, it's probably good to not just chew at things. Kalmbach has been a pretty good host compared to many over a longer time than most. It's their privilege to run things as suits their needs and goals. They tend to run a pretty family-oriented operation and I think that drives their aversion to some of the rougher edges that some would prefer. As has already been discussed in this thread, there's plenty of places to find that on the internet, so I think MR offers something different by the way they moderate.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Hi Bear!
I totally agree!! Be glad for what you have!!
I enjoy the forums very much. I look forward to visiting them every day. I will do my best to support them and participate in them. I really hope that Kalmbach will continue to support them. I'd be a bit lost, especially during the Covid-19 crisis, if they were to end.
I will say that it would be very enjoyable to have Cody and the rest of the gang participate, as others have suggested.
dirtyd79 A lot of it is that social media sites are taking over a lot of the functions forums and chatrooms did back in the day. In the case of model railroading places like facebook and reddit are where more and more younger modelers are going when they want to talk about model trains. It's much easier to find groups and discussions about the stuff they're interested in than on a traditional message board. They're also on Pinterest, Instagram, and Youtube since those places are more geared to showing off their work. They go to those places because that's where other young people are. All those places have a hipper, much more exciting vibe to them whereas messageboards are pretty much the grumpy old men's club.
A lot of it is that social media sites are taking over a lot of the functions forums and chatrooms did back in the day. In the case of model railroading places like facebook and reddit are where more and more younger modelers are going when they want to talk about model trains. It's much easier to find groups and discussions about the stuff they're interested in than on a traditional message board. They're also on Pinterest, Instagram, and Youtube since those places are more geared to showing off their work. They go to those places because that's where other young people are. All those places have a hipper, much more exciting vibe to them whereas messageboards are pretty much the grumpy old men's club.
richhotrainOur host definitely seems to have lost interest in the forums. The deterioration of the forum software is well documented. Nothing seems to work anymore. And, the forum has become so heavily moderated that I sometimes feel that I am back in grammar school. Threads seems to get locked and deleted for no good reason. Forum members get scolded for reasons that escape me.
Rich - you took the words right out of my mouth!
While there has always been a certain slow down in forum activity in the summer months, the forum in general has a lot less usage compared to, say, 10 years ago (don´t let my "member since" date fool you - I joined in 2009, got out and re-joined). The forums have lost a number of key participants, which quite often acted as a driving force. Some of them sadly passed away, others chose not to visit this place any longer, some were banned for reasons not always comprehendable.
Like others have already stated, should MR to give up these forums and migrate to FB, I´ll be out. Nothing in the world can make me join that platform!
Dear OP--
This is definitely not directed at you, so please please please do not take it that way. Imo the (very real) decline in train forums and probably some other forums as well reflects a general lack of civility in American culture and specifically amongst the various forum participants. The old Atlas model railroad forum had some very heated "discussions" indeed, that led to Atlas ultimately pulling the plug, but all these years later those of us participating in multiple train forums have apparently not learned our lesson, that we should have learned, and I think in some cases things have actually gotten worse than anything that happened back in the day.
I for one am sick and tired of dealing with certain people who always have to have the last word, even on a topic in which they should have little or no interest, in a discussion that really doesn't or shouldn't involve them at all, since again, it (the topic) lies outside their interest.
I am also sick and tired of pople on various train forums calling me a "paid shill" on behalf of some manufacturer, when I have not been paid by ANY manufacturer to do anything for 28+ years now, but I have actually worked in this industry and I did do the hot, dirty work of casting, milling, drilling, turning motor armatures, bead blasting all day long, and of course loading/unloading truckloads of product (120 or more cases at a time), and finally retail and mail order sales. So I have seen a lot.
I have been called a "paid shill" (shill being a word I never even heard of in my entire life until participating in model train forums) for being an HO guy that said MTH products actually do what they say they will do, and they do (or did) it well. And for actually LIKING the MTH controller (again it actually works--and for simpletons like me--it actually can work better than MRC's latest dc controllers in some ways).
Other people didn't like that I actually liked the Proto 2000 F units and felt that the Proto 2000 plated/clearcoated ATSF finishes actually held up better in actual use, in the real world, than some Genesis models.
(Commandment #1 - Thou shalt not criticize anything Athearn Genesis. Or if you do some people get highly, highly ticked off, even if what you say is 100% true).
(Commandment #2 - In HO scale it is a mortal sin to like anything MTH ever does/or did).
(Commandment #3 - It is completely unacceptable to criticize certain other manufacturers that I'll leave nameless, especially when they give an online sanitized version of "their side" of a story, to which there might actually be another side that completely disagrees. But if one disagrees with said manufacturer's version of events, one gets called out by the manufacturer for being a liar on these and other train forums).
So in various online forums including these I've been called a liar and a paid shill when neither were ever true, and the story I provided about a certain dealer being rudely cut off by an importer was absolutely 100% the truth as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow (sales manager at said dealer is lifelong friend going back more than 30 years, and I absolutely trust his word on any subject). Oh--and the elitist comments directed at any of us who like to play with brass trains really really suck too. Brass is just another material, sometimes more durable to handling, and sometimes not.
I was as passionate as anyone with some of my opinions about products...but so what, to what avail? It is a chasing after the wind.
I for one, at age 52, am practically, for all intents and purposes, done with posting on any model train forums. I have nothing else to say and nothing else to offer. I don't like the need of some people to repeatedly put others of us "in our place" as though somehow their way of doing things is so utterly superior to our own.
I have only responded here to the OP, since the person asked a legitimate question, that I wish more people would actually be asking. Over on other forums, there have been excellent modelers indeed that were "driven off" by the inane ramblings of some few.
It's not that Facebook has simply taken over. There is indeed more to it.
Respectfully submitted--
PS. I am on Facebook only because you can't have a civil and illuminating dialogue about brass here without certain people taking the topic hostage, and over there on Facebook there are talented machinists, in miniature, showing how to get things done. I went where I had to go to learn something more.
I think the Facebook groups option has really taken a lot of the forum functions from a lot of places. I am the moderator over on the Colorado and Southern Narrow Gauge group on Facebook. The closest earlier comparison I can give is to the old Denver South Park on Yahoo which is now on groups IO (which I was in starting years back.) We topped their membership in six months and our traffic and interaction is much greater on a daily basis that the highs ever were on Yahoo. Just a basis of comparison.
Jim
mlehmanIf it was only accessible via FB, they'd lose me. I'm here, at least in part, because I don't do FB. I'm sure I'm not the only one. I won't turn this into a bash FB reply, but FB has "issues" I can do without.
I won't do FB either.
I have been on this forum a long time and will remain so. I like this forum because most folks here seem to be in the hobby for the fun and enjoyment it brings.
I am on some other forums. Two are specialized with few members, another is a little too serious.
Enjoy
Paul
For me, it is a seasonal thing, not only forum participation but also the layout itself. I do some serious layout building and modeling from November through April, but then golf season comes around from May through October, leaving no serious time for model railroading.
dknelson And at the risk of being just another grumpy geezer, I think to a certain extent MR/Kalmbach act like they are tired of the Forums as well. I think they could have made posting pictures easier if they had sincerely wanted to. I think they could have done a better job with the "all magazine" index that they purchased from the original creators some years ago
And at the risk of being just another grumpy geezer, I think to a certain extent MR/Kalmbach act like they are tired of the Forums as well. I think they could have made posting pictures easier if they had sincerely wanted to. I think they could have done a better job with the "all magazine" index that they purchased from the original creators some years ago
But, I have been a member since September, 2004, so I still participate and I still get answers to my questions, and that keeps me sticking around.
Rich
Alton Junction
I love this forum. It is the only on-line presence I have.
I really appreciate the moderation that Steve-O provides.
The only improvement I would love to see is a little more participation from the MR/Kalmbach staff. That is something no other forum could ever offer.
If Dana, Steve, Eric, and Cody each posted once per day, that might draw a lot more people in.
What drew me to the last forum I was on all the time was that you could post right to the porum for pics, no third party needed. Also no one told you what to discuse, if you you wanted to bring your dog into the conversation, moderators would not close the discusion, and you know the trolls and others didn't stay very long. Only once was there talk about intervention and they decied not to and it ended fine, without any problems. I do have to say that the most annoying things on this forum are no spell check and no notifications.
I sometimes wonder if we might have lost prospective members.
For the last few yeras I have noticed many new people post questions in
Even though they are told this is not the proper forum.
I got tried of leading them by the hand and now cannot post there anymore.
I suppose some have moved on. Why bother.
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
My hope is that if Kalmbach gets a new forum, they don't use Disqus or one of the other 'canned' forums. Those take a lot of the personality out of postings.
York1 John
Im not sure how long I've been a member of this forum, but it seems like a good bit, to me anyway. With not getting home on a regular basis, my modeling is highly sporadic, and as such don't have a lot to contribute. I am also a member of 2 FB groups, but they are pretty specialized in nature dealing with older brass.
I have asked a few questions and the help and assistance has always been spot on, for that I am extremely grateful. I have also gained alot of knowledge and ideas from this forum. It has also helped fine tune my focus a bit on what I really desire out of this hobby.
I browse through pretty much every night as it seems to "declutter" my mind and helps me sleep.
There is a core group of folks that contribute regularly, and yes it seems like things can get "cantankerous" at times, but I have no desire to look elsewhere for info.
Kev
I agree that FB isn't perfect, I have the friends thing switched off and that makes it tolerable. I do use the FB PM thing though and have good conversations on there.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Well I like coming here, I think everybody here is great, and I find lots of help, and always learning new things.
Just back in Dec. there were a lot of people here posting, lots of newbies.
MRR does need to get a new forum website. This one must date back to 1999? It is not even that much money, like $6,000. They have no reason not to. Every other forum website I go to, constantly upgrade their forums.
I don't like using Facebook. But the model railroad community on YouTube is great. Layout builds, DCC help, layout tours, Locomotive reviews. I like watching Ken Patterson Whats neat this week on Youtube.
There is just a ton of Youtube channels for ModelRailroads. Its surprising actually I didn't know this hobby was that big.
Michael
CEO- Mile-HI-RailroadPrototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989