Has anyone else noticed that the number of people that participate in forums for model railroading has declined and not just model railroading too.
It's been a seasonal thing for as long as I remember. The months coinciding with warmer weather in the northern hemisphere are always slow. There's also a ton of model railroad content on other social media (Instagram, FB, etc.) that retains somewhat more active participation when it's reduced on the modeling-specific forums like this one.
Rob Spangler
I'm more of a "seasonal participant", as I have been since I joined in 2010. Many others are, as well.
I don't mind the status of being a "part time model railroader". I have way too many other projects going on in the summer, such as working on old garden tractors, (currently a Simplicity 7016) and working on our property in the north woods.
I'm back every fall, winter and early spring for full time model railroading.
I still ocassionally chime in when I take a scroll through the forums.
Happy 4th!
Mike.
My You Tube
The participation here has gone down over the years. When I joined this was the place to come for help, however FB has sooooo many MRR groups and more important specialty groups where you can learn so much and there are thousands of participants. I chat with the gang from Rapido on FB and join in their crazy banter, it is all fun. Jasons visits here have seemed to come to an end. I use to post his crazy latest video and it would be quickly removed so I stopped. They all get posted on FB though and brighten the day, which makes a visit worth while.
On some of the FB sites I chat with some who are here as well, though I have a completely different alias on FB.
This site is more like a small club now, along with its share of grumpy old men. I am surprised it attracts newcomers at all and I would not be surprised to see it come to an end in the near future.
I will likely hang out here until its demise.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
rrebell Has anyone else noticed that the number of people that participate in forums for model railroading has declined and not just model railroading too.
Yes and it doesn't appear to be seasonal like before. I suspect many has moved on to the modeling, layout ,operation and prototype SIGs found on Facebook or the more serious modeling forums.
The reason is simple how many times has a question been ask repeatedly?
IMHO the modeling world is changing from generic modeling to more prototype modeling and thus forums that doesn't meet that change will fade away.
For those that doubt this change just look at the prototyical cars and locomotives we have today.
This change started years ago with Life Like's line of P2K locomotives.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
It used to be that if you created a new post of a morning, by that night it was usually on page 3. Now it's likely still on page 1 and pretty near the top.
When this website - and this Forum - was bright and new, the other popular thing to do for those of us on AOL (and most of us were on AOL) was ... chat rooms. I belonged to some on music and some on, if memory serves, Star Trek. For most of us, having a PC or a laptop or both was also bright and new. YouTube was a different experience back then too. And because access was via PC or laptop you had to set aside a bit of time to fire up the computer and take part. It was addictive but it also asked for active involvement in the process. So you felt you had something invested in the time spent on a Forum or in a chat room.
But here is the thing. The technology and the capabilities were all bright and new, but we the human element were still old fashioned types who craved human interaction and involvement. We were not self absorbed automatons staring at a screen or playing a video game while driving. So what we had then for a brief while was the ideal combination of technology/content and the desire to utilize and exploit the new ability to have conversations and interaction with an entirely new set of folks outside of our day to day life. I suspect there were many railfans and model railroaders and toy train types who had never really had so many like minded people to "talk to" all of a sudden. So there was pent up excitement and involvement. That has now diminished
When these Forums were new Erik Bergstrom was Kalmbach's assigned Forum master and he played an active role in the discussions. We'd arrange Forum member get togethers at train shows and events like Galesburg's Railroad Days, etc. And we had "Forum Member" T-shirts that had the logos of the various Kalmbach magazines aimed at trains or model trains. The staff members of the magazines played a more active role in the discussions as well. It was new and different and exciting.
Now it's all ho-hum. Things have moved on. People have moved on. I don't think it is just seasonal disinterest although that likely plays a role. And yeah things that made sense on a PC or laptop screen make less sense on a device with a small screen, which accounts for some of the changes on YouTube. But another thing has changed, too: these Forums could be shut down tomorrow and somewhere in the thousand and thousands of threads, and thousands and thousand of things written on those threads, doesn't it seem like all the topics have been pretty much covered? How often is it that something really new is talked about? The only sad thing is that many fine photos that illustrated some very thorough tutorials have disappeared forever - together with the modeler him or her self -- because of the way the Forums were set up for photo sharing.
And at the risk of being just another grumpy geezer, I think to a certain extent MR/Kalmbach act like they are tired of the Forums as well. I think they could have made posting pictures easier if they had sincerely wanted to. I think they could have done a better job with the "all magazine" index that they purchased from the original creators some years ago
I also think they failed to learn from the lessons that snake bit them in the early years of VHS videos - MR jumped in with special content for videos but foolishly they assumed people would pay $70 or so for a VHS tape of layout tours! Then they tried renting them but even that was too much money. They have tried to monetize everything from MR Video Plus - yet still post free videos -- and the all acesss pass to the complete set of back issues (complete except for the single issue they left out which nobody at Kalmbach seems to know anything about based on a recent inquiry to "Ask MR Video Plus"). So here is MR trying to charge for stuff that others are giving away for free. And the free stuff used to be crap but now much of it is good.
There is a sense in which things are better. When the entire notion of an internet Forum was new, there were so many immature (and perhaps one could even say, ill and troubled) people who posted junk just to get a rise out of people -- and predictably, people took their bait every time. Unmoderated weekends were particularly to be dreaded. That era at least is over and not missed.
Dave Nelson
Clicks are revenue these days. I don't know what the math is for putting a magazine 100% online but if everytime I click on an article or photo they get paid, I would really be heading in that direction. I don't think ad blockers work for FB (at least they don't on my computer)
Having a complete interface of forum and magazine would be great. Is MRR the big boy on the block as far as this hobby goes? I have no idea.
Having a bunch of photos to go along with each article would be great and the cost to the magazine is nothing except more clicks when you enlarge them. Having to select one or two good pics because of cost in this day and age doesn't make sense.
I like photos and videos, especially when it comes to "how to" articles, there are no shortages of either on FB.
I like having a magazine in my hand, especially one I have been holding onto over the years. But sometimes you have to leave the train behind and get on an airplane.
There are a lot of how I did it articles on this forum submitted by we the participants, Kalmbach would be getting click revenue if those were on FB.
MRR has a FB page but maybe the forums should be formatted there along with more content, a one stop shop.
I'm still around, I also joined a few other forums but it's all the same. Talk or don't talk if the interest isn't fascinating or worthwhile.
Amtrak America, 1971-Present.
BATMANMRR has a FB page but maybe the forums should be formatted there along with more content, a one stop shop.
If it was only accessible via FB, they'd lose me. I'm here, at least in part, because I don't do FB. I'm sure I'm not the only one. I won't turn this into a bash FB reply, but FB has "issues" I can do without.
Like many, I've long anticipated an updated forum, but like all things that costs money. Our hosts may be choosing to put that off to see where things are going or because it's simply too expensive, but adding in featiures and capabilities plus a spiffy new look could bring back higher levels of participation. It will never be like when it first came online, because there are just too many options for those looking to engage with fellow readers. But I think the forum or other place for focused reader engagement remains an essential feature that FB just can't deliver.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Well I like coming here, I think everybody here is great, and I find lots of help, and always learning new things.
Just back in Dec. there were a lot of people here posting, lots of newbies.
MRR does need to get a new forum website. This one must date back to 1999? It is not even that much money, like $6,000. They have no reason not to. Every other forum website I go to, constantly upgrade their forums.
I don't like using Facebook. But the model railroad community on YouTube is great. Layout builds, DCC help, layout tours, Locomotive reviews. I like watching Ken Patterson Whats neat this week on Youtube.
There is just a ton of Youtube channels for ModelRailroads. Its surprising actually I didn't know this hobby was that big.
Michael
CEO- Mile-HI-RailroadPrototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989
I agree that FB isn't perfect, I have the friends thing switched off and that makes it tolerable. I do use the FB PM thing though and have good conversations on there.
Im not sure how long I've been a member of this forum, but it seems like a good bit, to me anyway. With not getting home on a regular basis, my modeling is highly sporadic, and as such don't have a lot to contribute. I am also a member of 2 FB groups, but they are pretty specialized in nature dealing with older brass.
I have asked a few questions and the help and assistance has always been spot on, for that I am extremely grateful. I have also gained alot of knowledge and ideas from this forum. It has also helped fine tune my focus a bit on what I really desire out of this hobby.
I browse through pretty much every night as it seems to "declutter" my mind and helps me sleep.
There is a core group of folks that contribute regularly, and yes it seems like things can get "cantankerous" at times, but I have no desire to look elsewhere for info.
Kev
My hope is that if Kalmbach gets a new forum, they don't use Disqus or one of the other 'canned' forums. Those take a lot of the personality out of postings.
York1 John
I sometimes wonder if we might have lost prospective members.
For the last few yeras I have noticed many new people post questions in
Even though they are told this is not the proper forum.
I got tried of leading them by the hand and now cannot post there anymore.
I suppose some have moved on. Why bother.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
What drew me to the last forum I was on all the time was that you could post right to the porum for pics, no third party needed. Also no one told you what to discuse, if you you wanted to bring your dog into the conversation, moderators would not close the discusion, and you know the trolls and others didn't stay very long. Only once was there talk about intervention and they decied not to and it ended fine, without any problems. I do have to say that the most annoying things on this forum are no spell check and no notifications.
I love this forum. It is the only on-line presence I have.
I really appreciate the moderation that Steve-O provides.
The only improvement I would love to see is a little more participation from the MR/Kalmbach staff. That is something no other forum could ever offer.
If Dana, Steve, Eric, and Cody each posted once per day, that might draw a lot more people in.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
For me, it is a seasonal thing, not only forum participation but also the layout itself. I do some serious layout building and modeling from November through April, but then golf season comes around from May through October, leaving no serious time for model railroading.
dknelson And at the risk of being just another grumpy geezer, I think to a certain extent MR/Kalmbach act like they are tired of the Forums as well. I think they could have made posting pictures easier if they had sincerely wanted to. I think they could have done a better job with the "all magazine" index that they purchased from the original creators some years ago
But, I have been a member since September, 2004, so I still participate and I still get answers to my questions, and that keeps me sticking around.
Alton Junction
mlehmanIf it was only accessible via FB, they'd lose me. I'm here, at least in part, because I don't do FB. I'm sure I'm not the only one. I won't turn this into a bash FB reply, but FB has "issues" I can do without.
I won't do FB either.
I have been on this forum a long time and will remain so. I like this forum because most folks here seem to be in the hobby for the fun and enjoyment it brings.
I am on some other forums. Two are specialized with few members, another is a little too serious.
Enjoy
Paul
I think the Facebook groups option has really taken a lot of the forum functions from a lot of places. I am the moderator over on the Colorado and Southern Narrow Gauge group on Facebook. The closest earlier comparison I can give is to the old Denver South Park on Yahoo which is now on groups IO (which I was in starting years back.) We topped their membership in six months and our traffic and interaction is much greater on a daily basis that the highs ever were on Yahoo. Just a basis of comparison.
Jim
Dear OP--
This is definitely not directed at you, so please please please do not take it that way. Imo the (very real) decline in train forums and probably some other forums as well reflects a general lack of civility in American culture and specifically amongst the various forum participants. The old Atlas model railroad forum had some very heated "discussions" indeed, that led to Atlas ultimately pulling the plug, but all these years later those of us participating in multiple train forums have apparently not learned our lesson, that we should have learned, and I think in some cases things have actually gotten worse than anything that happened back in the day.
I for one am sick and tired of dealing with certain people who always have to have the last word, even on a topic in which they should have little or no interest, in a discussion that really doesn't or shouldn't involve them at all, since again, it (the topic) lies outside their interest.
I am also sick and tired of pople on various train forums calling me a "paid shill" on behalf of some manufacturer, when I have not been paid by ANY manufacturer to do anything for 28+ years now, but I have actually worked in this industry and I did do the hot, dirty work of casting, milling, drilling, turning motor armatures, bead blasting all day long, and of course loading/unloading truckloads of product (120 or more cases at a time), and finally retail and mail order sales. So I have seen a lot.
I have been called a "paid shill" (shill being a word I never even heard of in my entire life until participating in model train forums) for being an HO guy that said MTH products actually do what they say they will do, and they do (or did) it well. And for actually LIKING the MTH controller (again it actually works--and for simpletons like me--it actually can work better than MRC's latest dc controllers in some ways).
Other people didn't like that I actually liked the Proto 2000 F units and felt that the Proto 2000 plated/clearcoated ATSF finishes actually held up better in actual use, in the real world, than some Genesis models.
(Commandment #1 - Thou shalt not criticize anything Athearn Genesis. Or if you do some people get highly, highly ticked off, even if what you say is 100% true).
(Commandment #2 - In HO scale it is a mortal sin to like anything MTH ever does/or did).
(Commandment #3 - It is completely unacceptable to criticize certain other manufacturers that I'll leave nameless, especially when they give an online sanitized version of "their side" of a story, to which there might actually be another side that completely disagrees. But if one disagrees with said manufacturer's version of events, one gets called out by the manufacturer for being a liar on these and other train forums).
So in various online forums including these I've been called a liar and a paid shill when neither were ever true, and the story I provided about a certain dealer being rudely cut off by an importer was absolutely 100% the truth as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow (sales manager at said dealer is lifelong friend going back more than 30 years, and I absolutely trust his word on any subject). Oh--and the elitist comments directed at any of us who like to play with brass trains really really suck too. Brass is just another material, sometimes more durable to handling, and sometimes not.
I was as passionate as anyone with some of my opinions about products...but so what, to what avail? It is a chasing after the wind.
I for one, at age 52, am practically, for all intents and purposes, done with posting on any model train forums. I have nothing else to say and nothing else to offer. I don't like the need of some people to repeatedly put others of us "in our place" as though somehow their way of doing things is so utterly superior to our own.
I have only responded here to the OP, since the person asked a legitimate question, that I wish more people would actually be asking. Over on other forums, there have been excellent modelers indeed that were "driven off" by the inane ramblings of some few.
It's not that Facebook has simply taken over. There is indeed more to it.
Respectfully submitted--
John
PS. I am on Facebook only because you can't have a civil and illuminating dialogue about brass here without certain people taking the topic hostage, and over there on Facebook there are talented machinists, in miniature, showing how to get things done. I went where I had to go to learn something more.
richhotrainOur host definitely seems to have lost interest in the forums. The deterioration of the forum software is well documented. Nothing seems to work anymore. And, the forum has become so heavily moderated that I sometimes feel that I am back in grammar school. Threads seems to get locked and deleted for no good reason. Forum members get scolded for reasons that escape me.
Rich - you took the words right out of my mouth!
While there has always been a certain slow down in forum activity in the summer months, the forum in general has a lot less usage compared to, say, 10 years ago (don´t let my "member since" date fool you - I joined in 2009, got out and re-joined). The forums have lost a number of key participants, which quite often acted as a driving force. Some of them sadly passed away, others chose not to visit this place any longer, some were banned for reasons not always comprehendable.
Like others have already stated, should MR to give up these forums and migrate to FB, I´ll be out. Nothing in the world can make me join that platform!
Happy times!
Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)
"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"
With Ebay degenerating all the time, Facebook provides other opportunities for willing buyers and willing sellers to connect without having to pay ANY FEES.
So those of you who hate the very concept of Facebook might want to reconsider it as a place where people are trading trains now, outside of Ebay.
There is a perception that "only the junk dealers" are still on Ebay. Maybe that is why my personal stuff is just not selling anymore like it once did.
A lot of it is that social media sites are taking over a lot of the functions forums and chatrooms did back in the day. In the case of model railroading places like facebook and reddit are where more and more younger modelers are going when they want to talk about model trains. It's much easier to find groups and discussions about the stuff they're interested in than on a traditional message board. They're also on Pinterest, Instagram, and Youtube since those places are more geared to showing off their work. They go to those places because that's where other young people are. All those places have a hipper, much more exciting vibe to them whereas messageboards are pretty much the grumpy old men's club.
dirtyd79 A lot of it is that social media sites are taking over a lot of the functions forums and chatrooms did back in the day. In the case of model railroading places like facebook and reddit are where more and more younger modelers are going when they want to talk about model trains. It's much easier to find groups and discussions about the stuff they're interested in than on a traditional message board. They're also on Pinterest, Instagram, and Youtube since those places are more geared to showing off their work. They go to those places because that's where other young people are. All those places have a hipper, much more exciting vibe to them whereas messageboards are pretty much the grumpy old men's club.
Tinplate Toddler is the lack of interest our host seems to display, as said before.
You're right, but does it really help to bite the hand of the host?? Better something than nothing.
the Bear.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Hi Bear!
I totally agree!! Be glad for what you have!!
I enjoy the forums very much. I look forward to visiting them every day. I will do my best to support them and participate in them. I really hope that Kalmbach will continue to support them. I'd be a bit lost, especially during the Covid-19 crisis, if they were to end.
I will say that it would be very enjoyable to have Cody and the rest of the gang participate, as others have suggested.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Tinplate Toddler is the lack of interest our host seems to display, as said before. You're right, but does it really help to bite the hand of the host?? Better something than nothing. the Bear.
If a hungry, hungry bear has that advice, it's probably good to not just chew at things. Kalmbach has been a pretty good host compared to many over a longer time than most. It's their privilege to run things as suits their needs and goals. They tend to run a pretty family-oriented operation and I think that drives their aversion to some of the rougher edges that some would prefer. As has already been discussed in this thread, there's plenty of places to find that on the internet, so I think MR offers something different by the way they moderate.
mlehmanIf a hungry, hungry bear has that advice, it's probably good to not just chew at things. Kalmbach has been a pretty good host compared to many over a longer time than most. It's their privilege to run things as suits their needs and goals.he tend to run a pretty family-oriented operation and I think that drives their aversion to some of the rougher edges that some would prefer.
Mike,
I sent you a couple of PMs on a different topic.
Tinplate Toddler
is the lack of interest our host seems to display, as said before.
Wrong answer - a forum with ever declining usage and malfunctioning software behind is certainly not giving our host the image he derserves. Better nothing than just anything, which hardly works.
Don´t forget, we have been promised an upgraded, updated software for way too long a time by now.
Tinplate Toddler Better nothing than just anything, which hardly works.