PRR8259I for one am sick and tired of dealing with certain people who always have to have the last word, even on a topic in which they should have little or no interest, in a discussion that really doesn't or shouldn't involve them at all, since again, it (the topic) lies outside their interest.
That can be a little annoying for sure, when a topic turns into a lively discussion between two people that actually know very little about the topic that is being discussed.
What annoys me (and this happens on EVERY forum, this is not about Kalmbach) are the folks that post replies as though they are experts about something they actually do not understand.
I am an expert in one thing. Seriously, I am recognized by the State of Florida as a witness that can testify in court as an expert on this one subject. Every so often someone posts something that is completely wrong on the one thing I truly have a depth of knowledge about. They usually use big words and nonsense theories to sound like they know what they are saying, but it is obvious that they are either recycling a lie they read somewhere else or just making things up.
Other than that, I am very happy here. I have found a home at the Model Railroader forums. The moderation that Steve-O provides is what keeps me here. I will never join the insanity at Face Book.
Before I was here, I had a home on the Warseer forums for ten years, but they kicked me out, so I searched for a new home, and landed here.
I was a moderator on two forums back in the early (pre-Warseer) days, and I know what a terrible job that is. I would not want to do it again.
Let me say in closing, another well deserved "Thank You" to Steven Otte and the team at Model Railroader and Kalmbach Media.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
PRR8259 With Ebay degenerating all the time, Facebook provides other opportunities for willing buyers and willing sellers to connect without having to pay ANY FEES. So those of you who hate the very concept of Facebook might want to reconsider it as a place where people are trading trains now, outside of Ebay. There is a perception that "only the junk dealers" are still on Ebay. Maybe that is why my personal stuff is just not selling anymore like it once did. John
With Ebay degenerating all the time, Facebook provides other opportunities for willing buyers and willing sellers to connect without having to pay ANY FEES.
So those of you who hate the very concept of Facebook might want to reconsider it as a place where people are trading trains now, outside of Ebay.
There is a perception that "only the junk dealers" are still on Ebay. Maybe that is why my personal stuff is just not selling anymore like it once did.
John
PRR8259Respectfully submitted-- John
John, you sound very bitter. Unfortunately what you discussed summarizes much of the vagaries of social media. I've been on forums since I was college freshman in 1977 and have found over the years you need a thick skin. It's only gotten worse as social media has expanded. Of course it helps if moderation is fairly strict to keep things to a dull roar. For some, best thing to do is find a place of like minded people, which helps minimize conflict over differing philosophies and hopefully fewer trolls.
My wife was a FB member of a British ex-patriot chat group because she wanted to read and talk about things of England, food, jokes whatever. But the people there were all a bunch of complainer and were extremely negative all the time to the point where it was a major downer. She found another same type group that was moderated well and it's been a nice place to hangout. Anyone who is mean or distruptive is fairly quickly banned. Moderation is a big part of how pleasant or unpleasant a forums or chat group can be for sure.
As for the accusations of shill, I could never take those posts seriously. They seem like nothing but 100% troll comments. There is a saying: "Never argue with an idiot/troll. They'll only bring you down to their level and beat you with experiece." Trolls exist to bait people and draw them into getting defenesive and reacting. They crave attention. Nothing is worse for a troll than to be ignored. So ignore them. Or, if social media is too difficult to deal with, walk away. I have to do that with somethings at times; but I don't necessarily stop participating all together.
As to the subject here, yes, summer tends to be a slow time for participation as the hobby is somehwat seasonal. There may be other factors that have added to it as well, which other have mentioned.
I tend to gravitate to forums where discussion is of more interest to me, model trains and prototypes as well. Here it is a bit more of a social club / coffee klutch for many of the longer term members - not my bag, nor is the whimsical stuff only tenuously related to trains (cleverlycrafted that way to avoid being deleted). I wonder if that has something to do with the observed lack of interested by MR staff, and if anything a tolerated irritation for the sake of "good will". I could be wrong. Then we have the occasional new member who has some odd and randome ideas to banter about. Some are hyper active. It's an interesting place to be sure.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Also back to original subject, I accually enjoy when things go off topic, people get into their lives and how they feel, just like in real life, instead of a structured convesation. And telling us not to discuse the virus is like excluding what the whole world is talking about, train forum or not.
I’m older than dirt and with that comes declining health. When all I can do is sit at my workbench/computer workstation the MR Forum fills in the gaps. Thanks guys and gals!
SeeYou190 I have found a home at the Model Railroader forums. The moderation that Steve-O provides is what keeps me here. I will never join the insanity at Face Book. Let me say in closing, another well deserved "Thank You" to Steven Otte and the team at Model Railroader and Kalmbach Media. -Kevin
I have found a home at the Model Railroader forums. The moderation that Steve-O provides is what keeps me here. I will never join the insanity at Face Book.
Like Kevin to me Face Book is total insanity . . . . I too have found a home at the Model Railroader Forum.Hats off to Steven Otte, Tom (tstage) and Kalmbach for making the Forum available to me.
THANK YOU Kalmbach!!!
Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
The secret to facebook is to unfriend anyone who wants to post daily political comments. Even if they are the same political persuasion, you will get sucked into arguments with their friends on the other side.
Unfriend anyone who constantly sends these stupid games where your favorite color and number determines what type of person you are.
We all know people whose life revolves around complaining, unfriend them.
Realize Facebook algorithms control who and what you see, and don't see. Liking organizations or businesses doesn't necessarily mean you will see their posts. Sometimes you still have to search them out.
Join or follow groups that you will learn something. I try to follow
The last 3 are groups you can join, the first 4 are hit or miss as to whether you see some all or none of their posts, but there are interesting pics to be seen in the historical pages.
I physically have to go to Rapido, Bowser, MR facebook pages to see their posts,
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
I frequent at least five different fora daily. They have all suffered lower participation. The Canadian Model Train Forum just switched their software a few weeks back and still haven’t come close to their previous activity.
Each of us makes careful, but also emotional, choices in this hobby, and we don’t like hearing others tear them down about running qualities, incorrect details, mismatched paints compared to Brand A’s truly excellent and accurate version (which they just happen to own). Goya often devolve to argumentation and hot tempers, and soon to ad hominem when they run out of cogent logic or facts.
i like it here, and on the other places. Some stick it out, as they do I in less-than-perfect marriages. The best of us b..tech and try to get some things to change. The worst seek greener pastures, but will often offer nothing much of themselves, or too much, over there.
i add my thanks to our hosts, to Steve, and to Tom who is doing his second shift as a volunteer.
This is the only forum that I post anything on. I am a year round modeler, but I don't post a lot because I don't have much to say!
Chuck - Modeling in HO scale and anything narrow gauge
I've noticed a significant drop in activity in most all of the forums I participate. This thread drop is probably seasonal as mentioned. We are outdoors or on vacation the next couple months.
Nearly every other forum, of totally different interests, often descends into polital or virus discussion arguments by just a few members thus turning the regulars off and scaring newbies away.
This site has been great at avoiding that stuff. Thanks guys!
I have been here 17 years and like this forum. It is friendly and has alot of very knowledgeable people. I remember years ago we had a troll that was hard to get rid of, this person cussed everyone on here. Also I used to see "regulars" as in the same people everyday like "Space Mouse", "BigBoy4-8-8-4" and some others. I agree with this being somewhat seasonal, but I am old school and enjoy this place.
Like some others, this is the only online forum I read or post to.
I am an ex-Facebook user. I didn't like Facebook deciding what I should see or read.
This forum is like a friend to me. I don't mind some of the threads that involve general topics.
Every-so-often, I get sucked into a political discussion or something else, and I later regret doing so. I'm glad the moderators keep those discussions off the model railroad side of the forum.
It's free, I like the format, I like the topics, I like the help I can get, and I appreciate Kalmbach providing this for us.
York1 John
I asked my doctor if I gave up delicious food and all alcohol, would I live longer? He said, "No, but it will seem longer."
selectorEach of us makes careful, but also emotional, choices in this hobby, and we don’t like hearing others tear them down about running qualities, incorrect details, mismatched paints compared to Brand A’s truly excellent and accurate version (which they just happen to own).
All of that is good to know before buying a locomotive especially at today's prices and I stopped buying locomotives by "eye candy" advertisment photos.
IMHO there is nothing like a wrong shade of (say) Chessie's Vermillion Yellow or a (say) a B&O GP9 numbered for a exC&O GP9 without the C&O details like bell mounted on the short hood and the Chessie C logo on the short hood. The B&O Geeps had either the capitol dome or the Chessie C logo on the end of the long hood.
OTOH if a 70'11" PCF RBL boxcar is only 70' 10" or maybe 71' I am willing to overlook that scale inch since I can't see a scale inch anyway.
In either case with this information in hand a modeler can decide if either model fits their modeling styles..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I have to say that a large number of responses to posts complain about the OP asking a question in the first place and advise them to do a search because that was answered over and over again starting back in 2005. And then if someone adds to a post on an old thread they are sometimes admonished for necroposting. You cant win. That combined with the decades of information already gathered here leaves less need to make a post. I must say I would have asked innumerable questions but they were often already answered so I did not need to ask.Research and advice forums such as this can become a victim of their own success, but just because there are fewer new posts, does not necessarily mean there are fewer people reading them.
restoratorThat combined with the decades of information already gathered here leaves less need to make a post. I must say I would have asked innumerable questions but they were often already answered so I did not need to ask.
That's a good point.
Unless they add a vastly different feature, Facebook will never replace a dedicate forum. It just doesn't operate ont he same model. There are really no threaded discussions.
I used to be on two other MR forums in addition to this one, but I was spending all my time reading and responding to messages and not enough actually modeling. I basically just dropped off the other two.
I'm on one other forum on a regular basis (I get email digests from a bunch oof DCC and other model railroad related groups from groups.io), that one being an electronics forum. Is their software better than what's here? By light years. BUT - it's ONLY a forum, all the other stuff associated with the site required customized development. The issue remains here that the entire web site and content delivery is integrated, and so they can;t just plop in any forum software no matter how much better it would be. ANd once you're tied to an ecosystem - I suspect the one they chose way back when has not become a powerhouse in the iundustry and it very late with updates, especially outside of the content delivery side. Junking it all and switching requires a signifdicant expenditure, both of money and time to copy all the contend. With print media a dying breed, I doubt it's a priority expediture for Kalmbach. Remember this is NOT just for Model Railroader, it covers all their publications. And IT staff? What IT staff?
Not an excuse - reality. Had they chosen differently in the past, this might be a non-issue. But hindsight is 20/20.
Edit: And this is why I love the software my electronics forum uses - it tells you if someone posts a reply while you were composing yours, and allows you to see the additional replies. So, re the necroposting - I've never understood the absolute hatred some people have for this. IF the new post is adding more information. We're talking here about a hobby where concepts from 60 years ago are still valid, there's not a lot of genuinely new stuff, and there is a HUGE bias against people even trying new methods in this hobby. Yet if someone replies to an old post and adds something, the responses are all "well, I hope by now the OP has solved the problem" as if the OP is the ONLY person to ever experience the issue they posted about. Now, to post at the bottom of a 6 year old thread and say "I have the same problem - help me!" is just lazy, read the old thread, there likely was a solution given. Posting "I had the same problem, but xxxx's suggestion solved it" is a useful addition.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I'm not here to defend Facebook, as I don't like their censorship..., but the honest truth is there actually ARE threaded discussions, just like here. One joins a group dedicated to your particular model train interest (there are a ton of different model train groups on Facebook--at least 4 just for brass models and brass collectors and different aspects of brass model paint and repair--for example). Then one posts a question, thought or topic, and other people reply with comments accordingly. Sometimes they just "like" the photos or individual comments made. The ONLY real difference between Facebook and here is that it's a whole lot easier to upload photos over there. Therefore, people doing "How To" posts have a much more simplistic, faster, easier time of it.
Regarding these forums, I complained to the moderator regarding one specific person, and I was told that although that person can indeed be extremely difficult to get along with, they were not going to moderate the situation. They think the person contributes some value despite sometimes being a total pain where a pill won't reach. If one still believes in "free speech"...well you relatively speaking still do have that here.
However, I have no plans to continue here, and asked that my account be closed, which apparently isn't that simple to do, the moderator may not have access to do that, and it's easier to just "not participate".
If I sound bitter, well going on other forums and reading snide, sarcastic comments that clearly seem to pertain to things that actually happened years ago does kinda remind one that email (and forum posts) actually live forever. There seem to be "new" people who weren't even involved in the original discussions now taking sides, but they obviously have no clue what they are talking about. I have no need to interact with them in any way, and the comments about arguing with idiots have been duly noted.
Also--my interests just run toward ALL steam (maybe I'm one of the last of those dinosaurs), so there is just nothing at all for me to gain from certain forums that have become virtually all diesel all the time.
Best wishes to all of you for happy model railroading, or collecting, or railfanning, or whatever it is that you choose to do.
We do need to bemore accepting of the new people asking the same questions that were asked before. We should welcome them, answer the question, and let them feel part of the group.
I have no problem with any old threads coming back. I enjoy them.
SeeYou190 We do need to bemore accepting of the new people asking the same questions that were asked before. We should welcome them, answer the question, and let them feel part of the group. I have no problem with any old threads coming back. I enjoy them. -Kevin
I think there are a couple of reasons necro threads come back:
As far as being more accepting, probably the best thing to do is model good behavior. There are several active members of the forum who do that, and, unfortunately, several who do not.
Gary
garyaOld threads just appear again on the front page.
I have no objection to new information in a thread, no matter how old it is.
Telling "Anonymous" that you also use caulk, to afix your track ten years later, is not new information.
garyathey just end in the middle-
Absolutely that happens. When it does and the OP reappears he starts a brand new thread. Everyone has to play catch up.
Maybe it's my choice, in what groups I follow, but it seems even more common in Groups.io. SOP is for some OP's to start a new thread for every reply. None of the threads have strayed far from the intial post.
PRR8259Regarding these forums, I complained to the moderator regarding one specific person, and I was told that although that person can indeed be extremely difficult to get along with, they were not going to moderate the situation.
Only one?
PRR8259Also--my interests just run toward ALL steam (maybe I'm one of the last of those dinosaurs), so there is just nothing at all for me to gain from certain forums that have become virtually all diesel all the time.
I have never had the impression this forum is virtually all diesel all the time.
Sorry, I'll try to do better.
I am enjoying this discussion as it is offering up food for thought.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
maxman PRR8259 Regarding these forums, I complained to the moderator regarding one specific person, and I was told that although that person can indeed be extremely difficult to get along with, they were not going to moderate the situation. Only one?
PRR8259 Regarding these forums, I complained to the moderator regarding one specific person, and I was told that although that person can indeed be extremely difficult to get along with, they were not going to moderate the situation.
Not to mention, those that don't particularly like a certain brand don't just blast it - they offer alternatives. At least the posts I've seen.
rrinkerNot to mention, those that don't particularly like a certain brand don't just blast it - they offer alternatives.
Randy, Thanks to that Genesis SCL GP9 I would be hard press to buy another Genesis engine of any kind even though I would like a Topeka Cab GP7u. OTOH my Grandson buys them and never have any major issues. All of my Athearn RTR engines except for one CR SW1500(badly warp handrails and cockeyed headlight) was perfect.
Some of my Athearn FMC boxcars had 2-3 of their stirrups laying the the car's tray. My Cadiz FMC boxcar A end truck fell off when I removed it from the tray... The assembler forgot to use a 2-56 screw!
Still I bought several more RTR FMC per diem boxcars after the Cadiz car and the QC/QA seemed improved..
Who knows maybe I will roll the dice on that Genesis GP7u at the right price?
I get it why some people dont like face book but one thing is for sure, there is a ton of hobby content there. Its very easy to post photos. Lots of specialized groups. However within a group, its not very searchable, not very organized. Good or bad, its very "in the moment".
I quit posting on my layout build thread here because its a pain to post photos. Kudos to those still posting photos.
I think it would be cool if Kalmbach took all this great content now buried here and created a searchable organized wiki. An online encyclopedia of model railroading generated by the community. Maybe they would allow some proven dedicated volunteers to help.
I come here every day. I may not actively participate, but I have learned much over the years.
I think Kevin's idea about Kalmbach employees dropping by is a good one. I got to meet Gordon Odegard when he visited my club in Dallas in the mid 80's; and I met Andy Sperandeo at a trade show in 1997. What was probably a "meh" experience for Gordon and Andy was inspiring to me.
Absolutely nothing wrong with bringing up old threads. There's a different mix of people here now than whenever that old thread and replies were first posted, so lots of potential for an old thread to go new and interesting places.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Sorry, but I refuse to ever join FB. Here, If it's not on the fora, I ask. If I get an answer, great. If not, I try the other I belong too.
If it's not on either, I guess I don't need it.
If this forum ended, I would be left to one, which is not much different activity wise. I would still refuse FB.
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
Decline in usage, based on fact or a guess? I understand where you are coming from but if Kalmbach keeps track of satistics and feel the forum is a money loser a good business operation would shut it down.
My feeling is this forum is within parameters set by a bean counter at Kalmbach and it's ok but not enough to have new software, no matter the costs.
Other forums I attend since March 26th when the Governor of Wisconsin rightly closed the state have risen with many more attendees. No actual proof of statistics. Since reopening across the nation in Mid-June I feel visits to the forums are coming down. I presume to think it is because many readers are back to work.
Facebook, scary to many but not if precautions no different then normal online visits if taken. If you don't have anti-virus it doesn't matter where you go, it is Dangerous. Don't accept friends, do not read the occasional add that pops up. Facebook has so much to offer Model Railroaders and is a great resource you are missing. But, I am not trying to convert you, you have your opinions and that is fine. If you like to read adds, you don't belong online, IMO.
Don't keep beating at a free forum on how its corporate sponsor treats you. You might get you desire and Kalmbach closes this forum!
Tom
Partisipation is key in a forum. No partisipation no forum. They get revenue here from ads and from selling content. They are making the ads work to some extent but if partisipation drops off and the veiw drops off and then the ads will too. It is a fine balancing act. Which I feel they have not fully fiqured out yet though they are trying. But I must say sometimes the overseers of the forum treat us like hobby shops do which has not been good in my life. I am often times realy getti ng into a thread only to have them say the subject has been covered, move along, many times before I even have time to comment on something because I wished to make sure all my ducks were in a row.