Over the weekend, I bought my very first brass locomotive from a guy I know locally, (he gave me a good deal on it too!) and I need some help finding a good match for Russia Iron boiler jacketing. It's an MEW Colorado Midland class-93 4-6-0 in as delivered configuration. I know the color palette I want, which is a black tender and cab, Russia Iron boiler jacket, and silver-ish smokebox. But, I'm just not sure what a good match for the Russia Iron would be. I've read on previous threads about Russia Iron that the UP 119 and Jupiter replicas' boiler jacketing is a good match for it. I like this color, and want to find something close to it. Does anyone have any suggestions of a paint brand and color that would be a good match and is easy to find and work with? (Like Testors or Tamiya, for example) I prefer either enamels or acrylics. No lacquers please, I've not had good luck with them. Here's a couple of links to good photos of these engines that shows the color I want to match: Here's one of the Jupiter viewed from the side https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/locomotive/images/4/45/1391129534-bFnT4RdQwCXGg4LfRRJyMLbKZhJHxLprgL9jcXRM.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20180512220624 and here's a close-up of the UP 119's sand dome with a good view of the jacketing below it https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/locomotive/images/e/ea/Photo300886o.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20180905232750 As always any and all help is greatly appreciated.
Neither true Russian iron or the 'planished' American product that is supposed to be a 'native' simplification are that even gray cast-iron color. The 'real thing' has mottling where the mechanical carbiding of the surface has taken place, which in the 'gray' variety might be produced with one of those metalizing 'antiquing' kits sold at Lowe's or HD for things like mirror frames or woodwork. There are some very good threads that describe the historical processes to make Russia iron, and I think you should work backward from the description of what is done to make a particular kind to arrive at the likely appearance.
I'm tempted to note that you could actually produce thin planished iron by traditional techniques and carefully work it up into boiler cladding pieces for perhaps the ultimate in fidelity. But that might be an awful lot of work.
Seems to me that many shades of metallic gray or 'metalizer' would be suitable to imitate the material, the hard part being to get the right surface reflection for unpainted planished iron. It is also possible that a fake technique -- putting a semi-matte finish on the right color of stainless steel of some kind -- could be duplicated for a model by very fine ruby blasting, of the kind now used on watch cases.
This is going to be a rough one...
The best match I know of is the OLD floquil color "gunmetal", but they changed the color about 20 years ago to be more silver.
You need to find a really old bottle.
I might have some at home, but I am not sure. Send me a PM in a couple of weeks and I will check.
EDIT: Also take a look at all the metallic colours at TurboDork Dot Com, they have three pages of various metallic colours. I have never used one, but have read good reviews of them.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Try Testors non-buffing Gunmetal metalizer paint .
It should be just about right.
Rust...... It's a good thing !
Little Timmy Try Testors non-buffing Gunmetal metalizer paint . It should be just about right.
That fits in with what I was thinking, because I did some research of my own, and I'm wondering if anyone thinks any of these paints I found might be a good fit. Some of my top contenders are: Testors Graphite Gray 1253T-3 (spray), Testors Graphite Gray Metallic 1153TT (bottle), Tamiya TS-42 Light Gun Metal (spray), Tamiya Acrylic X-10 Gun Metal (bottle), and Tamiya Acrylic XF-56 Metallic Gray (bottle). These are both brands that are easily obtainable for me. Does anyone have any opinions on the viability of any of these paints? I use both brands frequently and usually have pretty good luck finding what I need in them.
SeeYou190 This is going to be a rough one... The best match I know of is the OLD floquil color "gunmetal", but they changed the color about 20 years ago to be more silver. You need to find a really old bottle. I might have some at home, but I am not sure. Send me a PM in a couple of weeks and I will check.
Thank you for your kind offer. Unfortunately PM doesn't work for me, as my browser is FireFox. I can put the subject in, but it won't let me do anything with the body of the post itself. Do you know of any other way I could possibly acquire this paint if it's what I decide to go with? Also, do you know what the part number is for it? As I'm typing this post I just remembered a couple of local places that may have it. They both have a lot of new old stock products, including paints.
Many years ago In Model Railroader, I'm thinking the 1960s, it was suggested that Volkswagon "polar silver" paint was a good match for Russia Iron. And that was from an era where there were modelers and railfans who still remembered Russia iron boiler jackets etc.
Be aware that VW now has a color called polo silver which is not the same thing at all.
Dave Nelson
Over the years, there's been several discussions about duplicating Russian iron in the Narrow Gauge and Short Line Gazette. Check by searching the magazine database here at Kalmbach found under the Resources menu at the top right of this page.
EDIT: My memory came back to me a little on this. IIRC, the late Boone Morrison discussed Russian iron finishes in his series on modeling the South Pacific Coast narrowgauge.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
The 1996 "Model Railroad Paint Formula Guide" book shows six ways to use Floquil paints. Hope it helps.
BN7150 The 1996 "Model Railroad Paint Formula Guide" book shows six ways to use Floquil paints. Hope it helps.
Wow. That should be pretty handy. Thank you for posting that.
dknelsonMany years ago In Model Railroader, I'm thinking the 1960s, it was suggested that Volkswagen "polar silver" paint was a good match for Russia Iron.
You have to watch this. The original Glasurit was characterized as a 'pale cyan blue' but was notoriously fragile in weathering; the 'replacement' that was provided to 'victims' whose paint started to degrade has always seemed a bit too plain gray to me.
Overmod dknelson Many years ago In Model Railroader, I'm thinking the 1960s, it was suggested that Volkswagen "polar silver" paint was a good match for Russia Iron. You have to watch this. The original Glasurit was characterized as a 'pale cyan blue' but was notoriously fragile in weathering; the 'replacement' that was provided to 'victims' whose paint started to degrade has always seemed a bit too plain gray to me.
dknelson Many years ago In Model Railroader, I'm thinking the 1960s, it was suggested that Volkswagen "polar silver" paint was a good match for Russia Iron.
Deano
OT Dean I wondered if the B&O had used some form of it or if they'd just used some sort of paint. Does anybody know for sure?
The whole point of Russia iron is that it provides an impervious cladding, over the boiler lagging of that era, which did not need to be painted. This was a characteristic of its use in metal roofing, too.
The progressive development of 'stainless' steels was in no small part an attempt to achieve the noncorrosive characteristics of mechanical carbiding, for example in the medical industry where normal autoclaving could induce spectacular kinds of corrosion in polished carbon steels. I don't remember offhand any cost-effective 'polished silver' material suitable for boiler jacketing in the early B&O years, although it is possible a material like pewter could be wrought into sheets for the purpose.
Wolf359Also, do you know what the part number is for it?
I will check the bottle when I get home in a few days.
One problem with the "Russian" (or "Prussian") Iron question is that color film was created about the time the last 19th century engines with Russian Iron boilers were being scrapped, so we really don't have reliable evidence...it's basically written descriptions, black and white photos, and a few paintings.
BTW years ago in college I took a class on TV production. The textbook noted that, under the right lighting conditions, the best way to achieve pure white with black and white film or video was to use light green, as actual white often looked light gray. So that black and white photo of a locomotive with an apparently silver or white boiler might in fact have a pale green boiler.
SeeYou190 I will check the bottle when I get home in a few days. -Kevin
wjstixOne problem with the "Russian" (or "Prussian") Iron question is that color film was created about the time the last 19th century engines with Russian Iron boilers were being scrapped, so we really don't have reliable evidence...it's basically written descriptions, black and white photos, and a few paintings.
I'd speculate there were some builders and mechanics who used the 'cheapest' grade (in lieu of paint) while others might carefully select pattern and color for effect on passenger engines. It's fun to talk about this stuff as if it were all one consistent color, like a Polar Silver swatch, but I don't think even the American mass-produced versions were that consistent.
Would it be possible to get an idea of what the colors may have been from historical photos? Here are several of Colorado Midland class 93 engine 23, https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll21/id/9972/rec/6 https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll21/id/12583/rec/22 and engine 25. https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll21/id/6660/rec/147 You might have to zoom in on the one of engine 25. I've never understood how people figure out what the correct colors should be when they colorize black and white photos.
Wolf359I've never understood how people figure out what the correct colors should be when they colorize black and white photos.
Even the 'closest thing' we might have -- one of the early color processes like 'Autochrome'-- will suffer through use of dyes in the print that only are specified by filters of arbitrary color bandpass. We can correct for both, of course, but the work involved can be substantial and, of course, can't correct for information physically lost in the capture, including polarization effects.
Many kinds of black-and-white film are famously not orthochromatically sensitive, leading to the use of what might be severely colored filters to bring up detail in the negative (one famous detail being the absence of sky vs. cloud detail in much B&W train photography shot with fast-enough emulsion). Use of such filters in turn changes the relative appearance of some colors, and while a certain amount of correction can be made using a large number of images of the same known subject together with paint references to its colors, any reconstruction is likely to be at best rough.
The discussion of poished surfaces reflecting sky color, etc. is another often-commented-on concern when interpreting photographs.
I found this article about "Russia Iron" some years ago because I was wondering. Not sure all the links are valid.
http://www.pacificng.com/template.php?page=/ref/russiairon/index.htm
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
richg1998 I found this article about "Russia Iron" some years ago because I was wondering. Not sure all the links are valid. http://www.pacificng.com/template.php?page=/ref/russiairon/index.htm Rich
Thank you. I bookmarked it. There's a lot of interesting color variations on those samples in the photos.
richg1998I found this article about "Russia Iron" some years ago because I was wondering. Not sure all the links are valid. http://www.pacificng.com/template.php?page=/ref/russiairon/index.htm
Interestingly there is a Russian patent (4,163,680, Syrchikov et al. 1979) that seems to indicate the effect can be created by hot-rolling sheet iron in an appropriate controlled atmosphere of ammonium carbamate. That might be something that could be tried at hobby level...
My memory is wrong. The bottle of the bluish Gun Metal is not as old as I thought it was. Floquil gun metal is part number 110108.
You can see, one of them is metallic blue, the other is more like steel.
Does this look like Russian Iron to you?
The Micro Scale Floquil 'equivalent' table gives TS38 (a Tamiya spray-can color) as the replacement of choice for 'Gunmetal'.
I'd like to see someone make up both flat swatches and painted 'boiler jackets' (or similar cylindrical objects) with both these paints and see how they look.
SeeYou190 My memory is wrong. The bottle of the bluish Gun Metal is not as old as I thought it was. Floquil gun metal is part number 110108. You can see, one of them is metallic blue, the other is more like steel. Does this look like Russian Iron to you? -Kevin
Cool. I'm still doing some research on the colors of these engines, but I think that might work. I'll have to keep an eye out for that. Thank you for that information, Kevin.