The underlying assumption is that the data is readily available; and therefore the manufacturer should provide that data.
That may be true for most modern era models, but it certainly isn't true for 19th Century and TOC (not 2000!) models and prototypes. In researching the 1800s and TOC, it quickly becomes apparent that much of the information that is available does not fully correlate at best, and is contradictory at worst. Major rebuilding programs further clouded the issues.
Given the poor state of database maintenance in the US (and in most places), I suspect there will be plenty of modern era data that doesn't matchup as time marches on. The computer databases will be just as suspect as paper records of the past are now.
Random_Idea_Poster_6263 BRAKIE One of the sites I use is Rail Photos.. If you research the railroad car in question the information includes the built date. One surprising photo was of a 40' PFE reefer still in use as of 9/29/76. That must have been quite something and a suprise to see that. I will take a look and use it as a reference guide. Thanks!
BRAKIE One of the sites I use is Rail Photos.. If you research the railroad car in question the information includes the built date. One surprising photo was of a 40' PFE reefer still in use as of 9/29/76.
One of the sites I use is Rail Photos.. If you research the railroad car in question the information includes the built date.
One surprising photo was of a 40' PFE reefer still in use as of 9/29/76.
That must have been quite something and a suprise to see that. I will take a look and use it as a reference guide. Thanks!
I did a little reading up on the old 40' ice PFE reefers, and after ice operations was discontinued in most locations by the early 1970's, some of the ice reefers continued to be used in ventilator service, at least for a few years.
Probably some of the old ice reefers were in relatively good condition when ice service ended, so they were repurposed for a few years and by the late 1970's, retired and scrapped, perhaps some lasted a bit longer.
Here are some comments on ice reefer service:
PFE ended icing service in Sept. 1973. Ice refers were still used as ventilators for crops like onions, grapefruit, oranges and dates Cars in this service would move with hatches open for ventilation rather than refrigeration.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I am not rigid about setting a date for my layout. I do like to research locomotives to make sure they're in the right timeframe. I even bring a spreadsheet to train shows (remember those?) with every road number I have to avoid duplicates. But, if I find an Accurail car I want, I buy it without anyone's doctoral dissertation on it.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I'm a big fan of Bluford Shops. If you go to their website they give you all the information you need to know about a coal hopper or caboose they are producing in that run as to what years or era it fits in as well as the history of that car. They are mostly n scale except for HO cabooses. They also have a railroad history timeline concerning rule changes for freight cars that is very helpful.
Ralph
Can you imagine how hard it would be to be prototype date specific on modern rolling stock.
In the 1950s we have a hard time keeping up with revised paint schemes, reweigh data, etc.
In modern times you need to keep up with urban artists and their additions/modifications to the factory applied paint schemes.
I can just see the nit-pickers of the future...
"Uh, you claim to be modeling Summer of 2021, but the mural on the side of that CSX freight car was not added until Spring of 2022 when it was sitting on a siding South of Atlanta, you should really do better research."
I'll bet the future will be full of these nit-picking-know-it-alls.
You modern-era modellers better take a lot of pictures of the freight cars that will be in your fleet.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Paul3 Still, once nice thing about this modern time is that all manufacturers put out pre-release advertisements on their websites. They either put the era information on the web, or they post art or pictures clear enough to zoom in on the car data. That doesn't help when you're physically shopping at the hobby store, but it makes it much easier for new products.
Still, once nice thing about this modern time is that all manufacturers put out pre-release advertisements on their websites. They either put the era information on the web, or they post art or pictures clear enough to zoom in on the car data. That doesn't help when you're physically shopping at the hobby store, but it makes it much easier for new products.
Yeah, and just adding extra details like ACI and COTS decals changes the era.
http://vanderheide.ca/blog/2017/09/29/dating-via-the-details/
http://vanderheide.ca/blog/2018/03/16/dating-via-the-details-2/
Chris van der Heide
My Algoma Central Railway Modeling Blog
OK... this has been an issue forever.
The BLT date means little. What really matters is when the photograph was taken that the decoration on the model is duplicating.
Cars get repack data, reweigh markings, ACI labels, warning stencils added, special loading instructions painted on, and then the whole car can be repainted, but the BLT date will stay the same.
The only thing a manufacturer can do is "This car appeared in this paint scheme in Autumn of 1973, and was repainted in Summer of 1978" and then you get an idea of when the six year span that car could be used.
When I was in N Scale Micro Trains put out a monthly newsletter that had all this information. It was not on the package labeling. Kadee does a very good job in HO.
Overall, I think this would mostly just open up manufacturers to aggravation and nitpicking from self appointed experts that think they know everything, and love to boast on the internet about what train geniuses they are.
"That car was actually repainted on May 7th, 1978, which, as any smart person knows is in the Spring, not Summer. I can't believe XYZ manufacturer was so irresponsible not to do the proper research. You would think with all the people they employ they could get it right. I am so smart and they are so dumb."
I do not see any reason for them to do this because it would most likely cut down on sales and just make problems for themselves.
dehusman There are also the cases where a company letters a car but the actual car was a different car. For example Athearn make ONE truss rod boxcar. Therefore EVERY single truss rod boxcar they make is on that one car. Doesn't matter whether it actually looked like that car or any of the details are correct. For example if they letter a 36 ft truss rod boxcar for the PRR Union Line with a build date of 1901, is that really helpful? The Athearn car is really a 1910-1920 era car, it has the wrong doors for a PRR car and they open the wrong direction.
There are also the cases where a company letters a car but the actual car was a different car.
For example Athearn make ONE truss rod boxcar. Therefore EVERY single truss rod boxcar they make is on that one car. Doesn't matter whether it actually looked like that car or any of the details are correct.
For example if they letter a 36 ft truss rod boxcar for the PRR Union Line with a build date of 1901, is that really helpful? The Athearn car is really a 1910-1920 era car, it has the wrong doors for a PRR car and they open the wrong direction.
This happens quite a bit, especially in a minority scale in S. I don't mind it, because I figure the it's a way to hold costs down.
What I do like to know is what actual railroad car and year the model is based on.
Paul
riogrande5761 Micro-Trains (N Scale) has Prototype Data on their boxes. Which helps exactly or little information depending on car Example: Pennsylvania Railroad 50' Double Door Boxcar w/o roofwalk. #84916 Series: 84499-84999 Built: 1948 Trucks: Bettendorf Region: East Era: 1967-1980s On the model on the boxcar on the left side it reads PRR 3-67 as the rebuilt number and the right still has the original year 5-47. To me there is a sight problem. What happened to this car after the merge of PC. Did it get repainted or kept the same paint? Sit in the yard for repairs for years? Then you're wondering if Conrail repainted early or later in the 80s as the car data applies. I've done some looking at Microtrains freight cars in recent months as I've been collecting some N scale rolling stock, and another slight problem is the company that the freight car represents, such as Gunderson, Berwick, PC&F, Pullman Standard etc. is missing. I've learned to identify freight cars by appearance and by builder name and model. Due to this, I"ve actually avoided buying some Microtrains freight cars and leaned to buying mostly Trainworx, which are very nice and identify the freight car builder and type as well. Back in the 80's I was impressed with Microtrains by the high level of detail and printing but in recent years, now that I care more about finding models that match real freight cars, they aren't helping me in that department so I tend to steer away from MT unless I happen to know the freight car well by eye.
Micro-Trains (N Scale) has Prototype Data on their boxes. Which helps exactly or little information depending on car Example: Pennsylvania Railroad 50' Double Door Boxcar w/o roofwalk. #84916 Series: 84499-84999 Built: 1948 Trucks: Bettendorf Region: East Era: 1967-1980s On the model on the boxcar on the left side it reads PRR 3-67 as the rebuilt number and the right still has the original year 5-47. To me there is a sight problem. What happened to this car after the merge of PC. Did it get repainted or kept the same paint? Sit in the yard for repairs for years? Then you're wondering if Conrail repainted early or later in the 80s as the car data applies.
Example:
Pennsylvania Railroad 50' Double Door Boxcar w/o roofwalk. #84916
Series: 84499-84999
Built: 1948
Trucks: Bettendorf
Region: East
Era: 1967-1980s
On the model on the boxcar on the left side it reads PRR 3-67 as the rebuilt number and the right still has the original year 5-47.
To me there is a sight problem. What happened to this car after the merge of PC. Did it get repainted or kept the same paint? Sit in the yard for repairs for years? Then you're wondering if Conrail repainted early or later in the 80s as the car data applies.
I've done some looking at Microtrains freight cars in recent months as I've been collecting some N scale rolling stock, and another slight problem is the company that the freight car represents, such as Gunderson, Berwick, PC&F, Pullman Standard etc. is missing.
I've learned to identify freight cars by appearance and by builder name and model. Due to this, I"ve actually avoided buying some Microtrains freight cars and leaned to buying mostly Trainworx, which are very nice and identify the freight car builder and type as well. Back in the 80's I was impressed with Microtrains by the high level of detail and printing but in recent years, now that I care more about finding models that match real freight cars, they aren't helping me in that department so I tend to steer away from MT unless I happen to know the freight car well by eye.
I don't like getting Micro-Trains either, but if it's close enough to the picture of the prototype fright car I'll get it.
Amtrak America, 1971-Present.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Trouble with listing era run is people are continualy saying something was gone by a certain date only to find a pic they were wrong or that x road never had x whatever just to see one found that the road aquired but forgot about, yes I have seen that happen.
Attuvian...Are there not already sufficient inconveniences in being more particular about these kind of fit-your-year details?....
That's why I letter the majority of my rolling stock using either decals or dry transfers, and reference to the prototype in photos.
Wayne
Yeah, I also support the OP's request. And, yeah, I could do the research, but that's sometimes a lot of time spent in the weeds, if indeed you can find the right clump of weeds to look in. But it's not just the build date that's important. If there is one, a reweigh or repaint date (if there is one on the car) is important, too. Say I model Espee in 1955 and I buy a covered hopper with a build date of 1948. That's fine and dandy until I open it up and spy a reweigh date of 1962 on it. All of a sudden I'm faced with having to either remove the El Paso reweigh notice altogether or re-decal the date to 1954. Are there not already sufficient inconveniences in being more particular about these kind of fit-your-year details?
Mini-rant is over.
John
Due to the changes in any given car over its service life, the built date by itself doesn't necessarily help much. Let's say I model 1980 and am interested in the Red Caboose R-70-15 refrigerator car (all images from the Intermountain Railway site https://www.intermountain-railway.com/ho/horeefers.htm).
Here's the more or less as-built appearance of the car, with a 1968 reweigh date. It retains a running board, and lacks any stenciling showing continued service through the 1970s (including the change to reporting marks of SPFE based on the underframe specified), or the PFE breakup in 1978. Probably not too useful as-is for 1980.
This is more like it. The running board has been removed, the car now has SPFE reporting marks, an ACI label, consolidated stencils, and a U-1 inspection symbol. The paint job is newer with orange ends (although it retains the NEW date as typical for PFE 1970s repaints), and the UP herald is covered with a sticker. This model is 1978 or later, so is good for 1980 as-is.
This last one doesn't work. It's a 1996 repaint, with paint and lettering that didn;t exist in my era.
If the manufacturer provides the build date for the above cars, it doesn't help a whole lot without knowing other information. In service dates are more useful for modelers who may not know all the changes to paint or other details.
Rob Spangler
Intermountain lists build dates on their website too.
I don't care one way or the other. I'm doing my own research anyhow.
kasskaboose Perhaps I'm playing Devil's Advocate here by mentioning that some don't care about BLT information. Intead, they are fine with cars regardless.
Perhaps I'm playing Devil's Advocate here by mentioning that some don't care about BLT information. Intead, they are fine with cars regardless.
True. Some don't care and just want models that look generally like real freight cars, and there is room in the hobby however people want to enjoy it. But I'm guessing the OP asked because he is trying use freight cars that fit a time period. You know, it's a slippery slope and pretty soon only accurate cars will do!
tstageTangent is one of the few manufacturers that supply a BLT & usage "era" on their product boxes end panels.
Not all ...
But many/most do.
I've found two model companies really feed us with a spoon, and show us models and the real freight cars they are minitures of. That's Tangent and Moloco.
But the original poster sounds like a beginner so I'm not sure how many Tangent and Moloco freight cars he would be buying at $45 to $56 a pop. But they are nice models with a great deal of the research done for us, and highly detailed and accurate models.
maxmanriogrande5761 I can't remember if I have ever seen build dates on the box label. Branchline Trains Blueprint Series. Box end I'm looking at right now says:
Yeah, never bought any Branchline Blueprint series so ...
Perhaps I'm playing Devil's Advocate here by mentioning that some don't care about BLT information. Intead, they are fine with cars regardless. They could argue that it's similar to not listing calories on menus.
There is the expense issue of adding (or not) BLT dates, but also the time. The two are obviously related. I hate wasting time zooming to look at cars trying to read BLT dates. My vote is to include them.
"BLT & Era of the particular model and livery/markings would be helpful. These should be on Boxes & websites". Paul
"It's the South Shore Line, Jim - but not as we know it".
Micro-Trains (N Scale) has Prototype Data on their boxes. Which helps exactly or little information depending on car.
The more information and detail the better from a consumers point of view. But as been stated not sure there is much incentive for the manufacturers to do this. Having said that some manufacturers do provide good information on their websites, like Rapido Trains for example. They have a good write-ups, provide dates and usually a number of how many of them were built.
Maybe the key info on that Branchline Trains box was not just the BLT date but that this is the "delivery scheme." A BLT date might be perfect for your layout but the paint and lettering scheme might still be wrong. In other words there is still stuff you need to know about the model and your prototype.
But knowing a BLT date would allow you to avoid gross errors, I agree. By the way you cannot rely on the BLT date painted on the model car itself. Sometimes manufacturers have used lettering info that has nothing to do with the car they slap it on.
Dave Nelson
riogrande5761I can't remember if I have ever seen build dates on the box label.
Branchline Trains Blueprint Series. Box end I'm looking at right now says:
HO 50' AAR Boxcar
Single Door
1024 (kit #) Peoria & Eastern
Car #4503 Built 1959, Delivery Scheme, Jade Green, Large Herald
Tangent is one of the few manufacturers that supply a BLT & usage "era" on their product boxes end panels. The Branchline Blueprint Series kits generally included an era date on the box end planel. (I don't know if Atlas continued that practice with their Branchline RTRs boxes.) Accurail has BLT/rebuilt dates posted for each individual kit on their website.
Personally, I like knowing that information, as it helps me make more informative choices when purchasing rolling stock for my particular layout era.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
riogrande5761As nice as it would be for manufacturers to spoon feed us information, I don't expect manufacturers to start putting built dates on model packaging labels. Best thing to do is learn how to research models vs. prototype.
That's it in an nutshell.
Putting the BLT date prominently on the packaging/marketing materials tends to discourage sales, often as much through someone ignorance of its meaning than theough its correct interpretation. As has been discussed, the only thing that BLT really tells you is that an item may be too young for your prototype cut-off date.
In other words, it's more a crutch for those unwilling to do the research than it is a help. If you are concerned about not knowing enough to assess whether it fits or not, then you should do the research to remove your ignorance about such things. You'll also likely learn more about the car's use as part of the process, which can help in other ways.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Paul3 One problem is that the build date isn't always the indicator of era. Some are rebuilt (or serviced) and have later dates than the build (or new) date on them. So it wouldn't always be the NEW or BLT data on the box label.
One problem is that the build date isn't always the indicator of era. Some are rebuilt (or serviced) and have later dates than the build (or new) date on them. So it wouldn't always be the NEW or BLT data on the box label.
Some specific designs may have been built over a long period, so one car might be built in 1960 and another identical car in 1965. If you strictly model 1963 one is good, the other is not.
Or the car might be built in 1961 but was repainted in a new paint scheme that wasn't introduced until 1985.
Or the real cars were were built in the 1950s but short lived and sold off to another railroad by 1960 which you'd only be able to know by detailed research. Official Railway Equipment Registers for the year(s) you model are a good check for what was actually rostered at that point in time, though it won't tell you any history of where cars went or came from. Just numbers, quantity, and dimensional information. Still a very useful tool as a snapshot.
*Sometimes* if there's a known introduction date for a repaint scheme, the manufacturer may label/name the specific product version as "Norfolk Southern (2012+)" but the end of the box labels/stickers don't really have a lot of room for a custom block of statistics and history for each different car. IF they even go to the step of designing a new box for the model, and not a common box for all their products, they could only print the "general" information about the type of car or engine they're making, not road/number specific.
And heck, that's just a lot of research effort for the manufacturer, which they could still get wrong and then get blasted for that. How many mistakes and stand-in paint schemes on entirely wrong cars are already out there....
When it does come down to it, if you're one who's into making sure everything is actually accurate, you have to do a lot of your own research.