I found this very interesting! This is a new feature for HO, I don't think it's been done before!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTDrKpW01xI
I think you're right, John. It is convenient that the whistle on the GS-4s just happens to be right next to the exhaust stack. Not sure if MTH would have bothered if the whistle were further back on the boiler.
Even so, not something that I desire on my layout - even if it were an NYC Mohawk or Hudson.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Hard pass. Smoke units are banned at my club due to the smell, the problems with oily residue all over the place (also making the track dirtier), and the negative effect on people's lungs, eyes, and throats. We had a visiting G-scale portable club set up in our layout room during an open house, and those guys had the smoke turned up to 11. We were coughing, our eyes were watering, and we had scratchy throats after two days of that nonsense (and this is in our 6300+ sq. ft. layout room with 12' ceilings!). That one exhibition caused us to ban all smoke units in the club permanently.Then there's the realism factor (or lack thereof). Most of the time, steam engine exhaust is gray or black. The only time it's white is on a cold winter day when the fireman is talented enough for a smoke-free fire. And when it's that cold, it should have billowing clouds of steam and not look like a burning cigarette.
After a while my respiratory system does tend to react badly to the concentration of "smoke" units at big train shows like Trainfest in Milwaukee, or Madison's train show. Some of those Lionel units really put out the smoke. (And yes you do see greasy residue on the tops of the locomotives by the end of a day.)
"Smoke" (steam) for the whistle is a cute idea. Next I suppose will be the ear-splitting sound and shower of steam from a safety valve.
Those of us who remember passenger trains before Amtrak might remember steam leaks between every car, and at the last car - a classic scene in old movies, too. I suspect those are coming too.
Dave Nelson
Been done before along with blowdowns but not on RTR. By the way, smoke should be whiteish if run properly.
dknelson"Smoke" (steam) for the whistle is a cute idea. Next I suppose will be the ear-splitting sound and shower of steam from a safety valve.
Like this?
Happy times!
Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)
"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"
In my opinion, smoke and steam effects on models are as prototypical as a giraffe car.
Wayne
doctorwayne In my opinion, smoke and steam effects on models are as prototypical a giraffe car. Wayne
In my opinion, smoke and steam effects on models are as prototypical a giraffe car.
You mean there is no prototype for this?
Next you will tell me there is no Santa Claus!
doctorwayneIn my opinion, smoke and steam effects on models are as prototypical as a giraffe car. Wayne
Don't you think that's a stretch, Wayne? Or, are you willing to stick your neck out on that one?
Paul3 Hard pass. Smoke units are banned at my club due to the smell, the problems with oily residue all over the place (also making the track dirtier), and the negative effect on people's lungs, eyes, and throats. ... Then there's the realism factor (or lack thereof). Most of the time, steam engine exhaust is gray or black. The only time it's white is on a cold winter day when the fireman is talented enough for a smoke-free fire. And when it's that cold, it should have billowing clouds of steam and not look like a burning cigarette.
Hard pass. Smoke units are banned at my club due to the smell, the problems with oily residue all over the place (also making the track dirtier), and the negative effect on people's lungs, eyes, and throats.
...
Then there's the realism factor (or lack thereof). Most of the time, steam engine exhaust is gray or black. The only time it's white is on a cold winter day when the fireman is talented enough for a smoke-free fire. And when it's that cold, it should have billowing clouds of steam and not look like a burning cigarette.
I mean, sure, if you're talking about the Bachmann 0-6-0 from the 70's.
I get that smoke can irritate the nose and throat, but lets not compare a BLI or MTH from 2020 with a model that's 50 years old, and pretend like the 50 year old model is the gold standard; it's not.
You can control "spit" around the smokestack by adjusting the heating element temperature and fan speed. So turn up the heating element temperature and enjoy railfanning with an engine that produces realistic smoke -- especially in a yard, where the smoke is hardly ever black or grey.
I do appreciate MTH's efforts in advancing the technology built into models. It is impressive how much features they cram into a model. (such as the wireless drawbar! why don't others do this?!)
That being said, smoke is just a gimmick to me. I wouldn't mind it if the oil didnt get all over my models(BLI engines likes to leak smoke fluid through the boiler seams).
I still have yet to get a GS-4 to pull my coast daylight consist, but I'll stick with finding an older run of MTH GS-4s, or possibly a BLI GS-4 if one still exists, as I don't have $500 to spend on a single engine.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Modeling the PRR & NYC in HO
Youtube Channel: www.youtube.com/@trainman440
Instagram (where I share projects!): https://www.instagram.com/trainman440
I appreciate what MTH and BLI are doing to bring our engines into the year 2020. Technology moves forward all the time so why should our ho trains be stuck in the 1950's.
Real steam engines smoke so why shouldn't our models. I remember the naysayers back when sound first came to be and all the moaning by us real modelers would never accept sound. Well guess what, HO modelers have. The same thing can be said about dcc and many other advances.
If you don't like or want smoke, that's ok don't use or buy an engine with smoke. Heck I'm allergic to it so I will not use it but I like it and would never say to others that you should not use it.
Dave
The one Ulrich posted is quite nice. But that's not HO, is it? And that whole tender must be filled with smoke fluid to get any sort of run time witht he volume of smoke that puts out. I'd have to say, I'd be tempted to load that up and turn the smoke on once in a while. Animated doors on the toolbox, the reverse links move, all the lights, steam from all the places it should steam from, even the lube pump drive moves! That is a pretty amazing model. And if that's one of the KM1 models - yeah, those go for somewhere around $4500 USD. 1:32 scale.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinkerThe one Ulrich posted is quite nice. But that's not HO, is it?
No, it´s not HO scale, but Gauge 1 (1/32scale). I have seen the what the manufacturer calls "Dynamic Smoke" in person and I was impressed. Each loco is equipped with up to 5 pulsed, ventilator driven smoke generators, which are too large for HO scale. As you already stated, the locos are not cheap.
As much as I like "smoking" steam engines, I don´t think it´s worth the trouble in HO scale, as you simply can´t produce a sufficiently dense volume of smoke.
Well, call me as old fashioned as you like, but smoke, sound, "steamy" steam generator cars, station announcements (that one is really funny to me) are all gimmicks that for me lack realism in smaller scales.
Sound, I know lots of you love sound. But as a HiFi enthusiast I find it lacking bass, harsh, tinny, too loud most of the time, like trying to listen to the sounds of a locomotive thru a 1963 9 transistor radio.
Smoke/steam, like others have said, I will skip the cost, complexity, mess, the future repair problems and the environmental issues in my train room.
For me a big issue with all this sort of thing is my lack of need or interest in DCC.
Also, for me, it is also about viewing/listening perspective.
At three feet away in HO you are 270 scale feet away. I have done some listening and viewing tests with the prototype. At that distance under average conditions, you would be surprised at what you don't hear, and don't notice visually.
But, if you like that sort of thing, and you have the budget for it, have at it.
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRALAlso, for me, it is also about viewing/listening perspective.
Quite right, Sheldon! You simply can´t scale down your own eyes and own ears.
DAVID FORTNEYI appreciate what MTH and BLI are doing to bring our engines into the year 2020. Technology moves forward all the time so why should our ho trains be stuck in the 1950's.
Uhhhhhh...there was smoke in the 50s...at least in S-scale.
In regards to technology, I most appreciate the greater details of our models due to innovations in mold making using CNC. I also greatly enjoy the benefits of DCC. Sound is fun for short durations but I really like being able to operate two locomotives independently on the same track or layout w/o the need for blocks.
"Mommy, Wayne's making fun of my giraffe car again"
DN
Just to be clear on a couple points:
I actually like sound in larger scales, where the viewer is in a more intimate viewing perspective with the model, and where larger speakers allow considerably better sound.
And, regarding DCC, the operational benefits of DCC are in my opinion most valuable on smaller, or medium sized layouts where multi train operation is still desired.
DCC would only ad the smallest measure of operational flexibility or realism to my non crowded, basement sized, CTC controlled layout, at considerable extra expense for my required operational roster of 140 powered units, and the need for 8-10 throttles.
I do agree that for the vast majority of modelers, DCC is the best choice, for a myriad of different reasons related to their specific goals, skills, interests, etc.
No giraffe cars, exploding box cars, missile launchers, little men loading milk cans, or watchman dashing in and out of shanties here............
But I'm the guy who never owned a LIONEL train.......
ATLANTIC CENTRALI actually like sound in larger scales, where the viewer is in a more intimate viewing perspective with the model, and where larger speakers allow considerably better sound.
Me too! Those KM1 steam engines have two HiFi speakers mounted, which give the sound the necessary oomph. The videos you´ll find in the internet don´t do the sound justice. But that´s 1/32 scale. Unfortunately you need to be filthy rich to afford that.
ATLANTIC CENTRALSound, I know lots of you love sound. But as a HiFi enthusiast I find it lacking bass, harsh, tinny, too loud most of the time, like trying to listen to the sounds of a locomotive thru a 1963 9 transistor radio.
Sheldon, I have a love/hate for sound. Loud sound hurts my hears so,that the hate part. All three of my DCC/Sound engines sounds pretty good on low sound and that tinny sould is almost gone.
One thing I hate and nothing can be done about other then using the mute button is my Bachmann Alco S4 has a very loud tubrocharger sound and my BLI SW7 horn has a terrible echo. My IM DCC/Sound GP10 sounds great. I usually run the S2 and SW7 sound for 30 minutes befor hitting F8.. The IM GP10 I enjoy the sound but around the 45 minute mark I engage the F8 button.
As a note of interest my new Slate Creek ISL will be using either my MRC Control Master II or CM20.. Nothing wrong with DCC/Sound I just have more DC locomotives like my Atlas NS HH GP38s, all of my CR and CSX locomotives. Then my United Models Santa Fe 1950 Class 2-8-0 help me make that decision.
I'm still thinking about back dating to 1954 and modeling a Santa Fe branch line. The switching layout would be a end of the branch type with a station with team track and four ot five industries.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Volume is the second adjustment I make to ever sound decoder, after setting the address - for th every reason you state. They are factory set too loud. After all, just standing next to the layout, I am at least 270 feet away from the train, and it shouldn't sound like i am standing next to it. When it gets down to the other end of the room - it should be 'miles' away and barely heard. Turnded down, the quality of the sound goes way up, plus it sounds more realistic to hear it gradually get louder as the loco approaches you, and then fade out as it moves away. Blasting full volume fromt he other side of the room which is supposed to be 2 towns over, that's just not how it works - MAYBE in a completely flat open prairie area, but certainly not anywhere around here. I can occasionally hear the rumble of a train passing through, I'm about 5 blocks from the tracks, up hill. Sometimes I hear a horn, but the nearest crossing is at least a mile in a straight line, directly down from my house there is no reason for the horn to be sounded unless someone is on the tracks.
I DO have Lionel - my Dad's old set. But it is a 1948 edition Scout set - no whistling tender, no smoke. Lucky it even has a headlight. I was gifted a late pre-war set, but it needs a lot of TLC to make it all run again - that one does have a whistling tender and smoke, but it used the old style smoke which is no longer available. I'm no collector - I have no qualms about replacing broken wires with modern wire to make it run, when I get around to it.
I really like the looks of those KM1 locos - I wouldn't mind having one, have to set up a short test track somewhere to show it off, but I've paid less than that for some of the full size cars I've owned. They look and sound great. I could never get one and just put it on display, all those operating features beg for it to run.
Randy,
I get the whole turn the volume way down from the factory setting, I have operated on lots of big DCC sound equipped layouts. But even turned down, the sound quality leaves me cold.
And once five or six of those things are going, even spread over a large layout, I am likely to be looking for door in 45 minutes tops.
It is very subjective, but even the HO locos that I have heard that sounded ok, don't justify the we work or the expense for me.
Funny how every forum about a new feature/gimmick ends up into a conversation about how everything past DC engines that go forward and back is not worthwhile.
Trainman440 Funny how every forum about a new feature/gimmick ends up into a conversation about how everything past DC engines that go forward and back is not worthwhile.
It all depends on your interests and goals in this hobby, that's all.
And there is nothing wrong with sound and smoke if that makes the hobby enjoyable for you.
But it is equally correct to not embrace every expensive new technology that comes around the corner.
We have seen that these expensive high feature locomotives can be "fragile", and I don't mean in terms handling. MTH and BLI have had their share of electronics problems, smoke units still have a high failure rate after a few years, then we add a little fan to blow the smoke?
Again, you are welcome to it if you enjoy it.
I prefer to spend my hobby dollars in other ways.
Personally, I skip the smoke. I just don't think the problems - smell, residue, etc are worth it.
I occasionally run with sound. It's kind of fun when I'm just running one engine by itself. Otherwise I turn it off.
Paul
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Well, call me as old fashioned as you like, but smoke, sound, "steamy" steam generator cars, station announcements (that one is really funny to me) are all gimmicks that for me lack realism in smaller scales. Sound, I know lots of you love sound. But as a HiFi enthusiast I find it lacking bass, harsh, tinny, too loud most of the time, like trying to listen to the sounds of a locomotive thru a 1963 9 transistor radio. Smoke/steam, like others have said, I will skip the cost, complexity, mess, the future repair problems and the environmental issues in my train room. For me a big issue with all this sort of thing is my lack of need or interest in DCC. Also, for me, it is also about viewing/listening perspective. At three feet away in HO you are 270 scale feet away. I have done some listening and viewing tests with the prototype. At that distance under average conditions, you would be surprised at what you don't hear, and don't notice visually. But, if you like that sort of thing, and you have the budget for it, have at it. Sheldon
Couldn't agree more.
It's 2020. If it doesent have a smoke unit I wont buy it. While the effect is not perfect, it blows away an engine that spewes crystal clear fresh air out the SMOKE stack! And you can turn it off. Brilliant!
cold steal It's 2020. If it doesent have a smoke unit I wont buy it. While the effect is not perfect, it blows away an engine that spewes crystal clear fresh air out the SMOKE stack! And you can turn it off. Brilliant!
Ok, everybody likes something different. I'm a big supporter of choice. Everyone should enjoy these little toys as they see fit.
I find it interesting that you would limit your choices based on such a criteria.
As a person interested in creating realistic believable scenes and operations on my model layout, such a restriction would be unworkable for me.
But, I guess your interests run in a different direction.
Personally I'm not spending an extra $100 or more for the privilege of turning off the sound and the smoke.
But then again, I only need to add about 6-8 locos to my 140 loco fleet and I will have all the locos I ever wanted or needed for my layout theme.
johngriffey18ca1This is a new feature for HO, I don't think it's been done before!
BLI was pushing it back in 2016:
BLI_catalog_2016 by Edmund, on Flickr
Depleting COAL load, too!
Both Grubba and Wolf are former Lionel people. They can't shake their toy train backgrounds.
BLI_crop by Edmund, on Flickr
Plays "Hail To THe Chief" and "Star Spangled Banner", too
Good Luck, Ed