Winton Brass HO Kit

[knewsom]

Has anyone ever heard of a Winton Brass HO kit for a 2-6-6-6 Allegheny? There is one listed on ebay, but I can not find any information on the manufacturer. I have the latest Brown Book on brass, but Winton is not even listed as a manufacturer.

Thanks,
Kevin

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by knewsom

Has anyone ever heard of a Winton Brass HO kit for a 2-6-6-6 Allegheny? There is one listed on ebay, but I can not find any information on the manufacturer. I have the latest Brown Book on brass, but Winton is not even listed as a manufacturer.

Thanks,
Kevin

Winton went out of business in the 50's. The kit is a really rare item. Whether or not it's any good, I have no idea.

Andre

[dknelson]

Winton goes back to the late 1940s. I have never seen a kit but I do recall seeing a reference that these were among the most difficult of kits and that you had quite a bit of machining to do. Not for the faint of heart as I understand. The photos I have seen did not look very detailed. In the January 1950 issue of Model Railroader is an ad for Winton Engineering on page 14. They offered two locomotives. Their Berkshire with tender was $29.95; the tender alone was $6.95. The 2-6-6-6 was $44.50 less tender. The tender was $11.25. The ad says they were all brass. Winton was in Danville Calif.
By the way don't think these prices were mouth-watering at the time. That same issue advertised the Lionel tinplate "steam turbine" engine new for $37.50. If you know anything about Lionel prices you know what those go for now! National Model offered a plastic kit for the C&NW "Pioneer" 4-2-0 steam locomotive and tender. Price? $1.00.
The Mantua 2-8-2 was selling for $29.95. The Bowser NYC Pacific kit, less tender, was $27.50.
Dave Nelson

[knewsom]

Thanks Andre and Dave for the information. I want a 2-6-6-6 for my layout, but I am not sure this is the one for me. There is no guarantee that all of the parts are there, so I will probably pass on this auction.

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by knewsom

Thanks Andre and Dave for the information. I want a 2-6-6-6 for my layout, but I am not sure this is the one for me. There is no guarantee that all of the parts are there, so I will probably pass on this auction.

You're better off without it. If you can get hold of a Rivarossi 2-6-6-6, go for it.

BTW, a company named Arbour also made a 2-6-6-6 in cast metal. I think Walthers bought their inventory and tooling. Whether or not Walthers will re-issue the kits, I don't know.

Andre

[Anonymous]

Winton certainly isn't for the faint of heart. Much of the casting work needs to be thoroughly cleaned of flash, a reasonable amount of drilling needs to be done, and only the basic details are included. To make the engine comparable to even the roughest of current engines you would need to replace all the old detail castings with lost wax brass fittings from Kemtron, Cal Scale, etc.

The running gear needs a lot of attention to have a smooth operating loco. It's just technology from the 40's and that's what you end up with when you're done. At the time this was the only route a modeler could take to get a particular model with some level of accurate dimensions. Companies like Lobaugh in O scale was offering the same kind of kits, again with their type of model being the only game in town.

I would think that the Winton would only be suitable for somebody that wanted to have the engine maybe for collectible value in that they liked the early brass cast kits, or for someone with light machine shop skills that could really put forth the effort to do a highly detailed model, and be willing to revamp the chassis to modern can motor operation and upgrade the valve gear operation. Not an easy task.

Winton could never be put in the category of brass engines as we know them today or would be reported in the Brown Book. Winton for most of his models used sand castings, not sheet brass. Solid brass boilers were the rule during those days. A few tenders would also be solid brass castings. Imagine how much they weighed. Of course a solid brass cast boiler is no lightweight, either.

[Anonymous]

Kevin,

Thanks for advising of the eBay site. I just went into eBay and found the kit, sounded too interesting not to take a look at it . Not to often do you find something that old in such great shape. Instructions are even perfect. This is the Winton kit that comes with the solid cast boiler. You don't have to worry about adding weight to this engine. The details are also solid castings. I often wonder if the motors that came out with these models were powerful enough to pull all that weight around and still have enough power left for a train. This kit is lacking the tender of course, but over time it seems just anything you would ever want will show up on eBay, so why not a tender.

I will venture a guess that the bidders on this kit are seeking the engine for the value of the original box, instructions, like new kit, not for a operating model. There are some real pros in construction of this type of model and could very well make a nice engine out of the kit, but they have soldering skills beyond the levels of most of us, and have the machine tools to do the rest of the work. I wish I had the ability.

The same seller also has a Bowser brass locomotive kit. These are just as tough as Winton to find, and like Winton, you'll never find a Bowser listed in the same league with the Brown Book hand built models from Asia. This particular Bowser also has a solid cast boiler, and appears the tender might also be a casting. It will be a fun project for somebody, but lots of work of the skilled variety. Bowser got out of the brass modeling business rather quickly and their die-cast models that we are familiar with today have been made for several decades.

[Anonymous]

Here are some photos of the Winton Berkshire and Allegheny, from a friend's collection. Note that there are almost NO castings in these kits- even the drive wheels are not machined from castings! These are REAL collector items!

Regards- Richard W.

[Anonymous]

Richard,
Thanks for posting the great pics. These two models are very well assembled. Yep, you can easily tell the machined parts. It has been so long since I had seen a finished up Winton that I doubt that I would have recognized it without being told. The overall looks of the engines are very good. Most of the time when you find a Winton for sale it is in pieces because the buyer never had the capacity to fini***he model and often set in the box for someone else to finish. There is quite a bit more solder work on the locos than I thought would be necessary, almost the same as some of the early Japanese imports.

Appreciate the education.

[nfmisso]

QUOTE: Originally posted by andrechapelon


..........BTW, a company named Arbour also made a 2-6-6-6 in cast metal. I think Walthers bought their inventory and tooling. Whether or not Walthers will re-issue the kits, I don't know.

Andre

Bowser bought the Arbour inventory and tooling, not Walthers.

[cefinkjr]

Richard:

[bow] [bow] [bow]

Many, many thanks for the pictures of the Winton engines. I had never heard of Winton until reading this topic (haven't been in MRRing quite that long) but very much enjoyed seeing the pictures.

BTW: If that's a C&O Class K 2-8-4, shouldn't we be calling it a Kanawha (after a river in central West Virginia) and not a Berkshire?

Chuck