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Nitpicking

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Nitpicking
Posted by Enzoamps on Saturday, February 15, 2020 9:40 PM

In my recent MArch 2020 MR, I see some fine layouts.  One of which is St.Louis Junction on page 54.  But what struck my eye in the first photo was the two locos.  Both had the same number - a large 1522.  I admit I know little of such details, so I ask in honesty.  Is that a prototype where two units are permanently drawbar connected and sport the same number because the railroad considers it one locomotive?  Or was it an oversight/planned correction?  A visitor's loco making a guest appearance?

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Posted by carl425 on Saturday, February 15, 2020 10:22 PM

Enzoamps
Is that a prototype where two units are permanently drawbar connected and sport the same number because the railroad considers it one locomotive?

Yes.  Some railroads had permanent sets that had the same number.  I can't say it was never done on others, but I've only seen it on F & and I think E units.

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Posted by oldline1 on Saturday, February 15, 2020 10:40 PM

I saw that and was curious too.

 

Did you see tractor-trailer sitting there without the cab off to the right side of the picture? Might be hard to get it up to hook up.

oldline1

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Sunday, February 16, 2020 5:42 AM

The STRATTON AND GILLETTE has several sets of A/A Alco FAs in special paint for NIghtbird Freight Service that are drawbar connected and numbered as a single unit.

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Posted by mbinsewi on Sunday, February 16, 2020 7:01 AM

I looked up the roster for the A&S, and I'm thinking it's an oversight by the modeler/author.

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/locoPicture.aspx?id=26988&Page=1

The A&S is a wholly owned subsidiary of the UP.

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Posted by BRAKIE on Sunday, February 16, 2020 7:09 AM

Enzoamps
Both had the same number - a large 1522.

After the railroads dropped the drawbar each locomotive received its own number so,no after that time.. 

I have notice photos of great layouts that had freight cars that didn't fit the era being modeled and the biggest laugh is cabooseless trains in the 50s,60s and 70s modeling era. The conductor and rear brakeman rode the caboose while the engineer,fireman(yes diesels had fireman) and head brakeman rode in the engine cab.

The left hand seat in earily diesels was for the fireman and after the fireman's job was eliminated the head brakeman took over the left hand seat. After the demise of the caboose and the crew size was cut to two then and only then did the left hand seat become known as the conductor's seat.

Larry

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Posted by John-NYBW on Sunday, February 16, 2020 9:59 AM

BRAKIE

 

 
Enzoamps
Both had the same number - a large 1522.

 

After the railroads dropped the drawbar each locomotive received its own number so,no after that time.. 

I have notice photos of great layouts that had freight cars that didn't fit the era being modeled and the biggest laugh is cabooseless trains in the 50s,60s and 70s modeling era. The conductor and rear brakeman rode the caboose while the engineer,fireman(yes diesels had fireman) and head brakeman rode in the engine cab.

The left hand seat in earily diesels was for the fireman and after the fireman's job was eliminated the head brakeman took over the left hand seat. After the demise of the caboose and the crew size was cut to two then and only then did the left hand seat become known as the conductor's seat.

 

For what it's worth, I have an ABBA set of P1K Erie F-3 diesels, numbered 714A/B/C/D.  The A units are A&D and the B units are B&C. I run them as seperate AB sets coupled by a drawbar. Right now they are seeing duty running my coal trains with the A/B units handling eastbound loads and the C/D units handling the westbound empties. Since they are permanantly coupled with a drawbar, rather than doing an MU on by DCC system, I assign both units of the 714A/B set as address 7141 and both units of the 714C/D set as 7142. I have the option of MUing them into a single ABBA consist and I have in the past but for now, they are handling the coal trains seperately.

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Sunday, February 16, 2020 10:23 AM

The locomotive was made by Atlas, it was a very limited production paint scheme, back in 2009, and was only offered in the one road number.

http://archive.atlasrr.com/HOLoco/arc-homp15dc.htm

So short of custom decals and a custom paint job, the owner apparently settled for both locos having the same number.

Maybe he has a plan to attempt a renumbering.........not sure I would try that on that paint scheme.........

As for the tractor trailer......opps!

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Posted by Doughless on Sunday, February 16, 2020 10:48 AM

Sheldon is correct.  The modeler has two copies of the same Atlas loco, which was the only road number offered.  I own one and its an excellent loco.  I have toyed with the idea of getting a second and making one of the 2's into a 7....for my home road shortline.  I'm confident that a bit of razor blade scraping of the blue and dabbing some matched paint would work close enough (maybe some strategeric weathering) to turn it into a 1527.  A little work on the number boards too.

The blue and yellow C&NW-ish paint scheme is derived from the 50/50 ownership structure the A&S had when it was owned by MOPAC (the blue) and C&NW (the yellow, and the shape of the logo).  Of course, UP acquired both RRs so now it belongs to them 100%. 

Its a sharp looking scheme when cleaned up.

http://archive.atlasrr.com/Images/HOLocomotives/mp15/0409/9980_TQ.jpg

 

- Douglas

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Posted by mbinsewi on Sunday, February 16, 2020 11:12 AM

Now when I look at that picture, the first thing I see is the trailer.

It sure is a huge layout!

Mike.

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Posted by Enzoamps on Sunday, February 16, 2020 3:47 PM

Oh I saw the trailer right away, but generally don't want to point out stuff like that.  One thing my eye cannot ignore is structures sitting atop the ground.  You know, that gap underneath.  I appreciate the replies.  I was aware ther were multiunit locos with one number in prototype, but I was curious about this specific prototype, merely because the number is such a large bold presence on the side.  If it had been a number box on the front of an F7, I doubt I'd have seen it.

I do look for anachronisms, like red stop signs in 1934.   For that matter, all the movies of that era lead me to believe everything was black and white then anyway.

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Posted by Mark R. on Sunday, February 16, 2020 5:11 PM

I'm "blessed" with severe OCD, so that's almost a hobby for me .... looking for discrepancies in articles. I seldom (if ever) bring them to anyones attention as I know it's just me for the most part. 

I've seen layouts where the article states numerous times that the layout is set in 1943, but that 1955 Chevy is clearly visible in numerous photos. I could go on and on, but again, it's clearly MY issue alone and probably explains why I'm still working on the same layout after 25+ years ....

Mark. 

¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Sunday, February 16, 2020 6:01 PM

Mark R.
that 1955 Chevy is clearly visible in numerous photos.

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For me, it is flags with the wrong number of stars. I go bonkers every time I see a "early 1950s" layout with 50 star flags. 

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SoapBox

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Posted by gmpullman on Sunday, February 16, 2020 6:21 PM

SeeYou190
For me, it is flags with the wrong number of stars.

Even the big-money "Hollywood" productions make mistakes like this. I usually find at least half a dozen or more anachronisms in what are supposedly "researched" movie shots. Even when they have a team of "advisors" on hand I catch quite a few.

 Union-Station_old-crop by Edmund, on Flickr

 

Regards, Ed

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Sunday, February 16, 2020 6:31 PM

gmpullman
Even the big-money "Hollywood" productions make mistakes like this. I usually find at least half a dozen or more anachronisms in what are supposedly "researched" movie shots. Even when they have a team of "advisors" on hand I catch quite a few.

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You know, that is amazing.

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When I watched the Disney animated film Pocahontas, I was amazed that as far as I could tell, all the maritime flags for the English ships were period correct.

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But, in the live action Sharknado 6, they had a Confederate States of America national flag in a Revoltionary War Camp. That is a mistake there is no excuse for. Hey, the stars were in a circle, close enough.

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The scene in Toy Story where Woody almost gets run over by the truck in the gas station is incredible. The underframe detail in the class 8 tractor is almost spot-on. However, in Twister, the trucks are just solid blocks underneath. Pitiful.

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Posted by NittanyLion on Sunday, February 16, 2020 8:40 PM

gmpullman

 

 
SeeYou190
For me, it is flags with the wrong number of stars.

 

Even the big-money "Hollywood" productions make mistakes like this. I usually find at least half a dozen or more anachronisms in what are supposedly "researched" movie shots. Even when they have a team of "advisors" on hand I catch quite a few.

 Union-Station_old-crop by Edmund, on Flickr

 

Regards, Ed

 

I've met some people that have worked as advisors on films and there's a lot of "well too late now" and every other tradeoff you can think of. 

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Posted by Enzoamps on Sunday, February 16, 2020 9:09 PM

And the famous wrist watch on a Roman soldier in some gladiator flick.

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Posted by gmpullman on Sunday, February 16, 2020 9:18 PM

Speaking of fifty-star flags:

Churchill (2017):

Churchill meets Eisenhower for the first time in 1944 and there is a fifty-star flag in the background.Dunce

Another favorite, Pearl Harbor (2001): shows a train station in 1941 with the bright, shiny 1949 California Zephyr on the next track over Indifferent

I'm sure we could fill a whole thread with these. 

Cheers, Ed

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Sunday, February 16, 2020 9:37 PM

Enzoamps
And the famous wrist watch on a Roman soldier in some gladiator flick.

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I have always heard that was in Spartacus, but I have never seen the wristwatch.

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-Kevin

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Sunday, February 16, 2020 9:40 PM

One of my favorite movie screwups are Checker cabs. Having owned several Checkers in my lifetime, and being a bit of a Checker buff, I can identify the model years, which are often incorrect in many films.

The film will be set in 1963, and they have 1969 or 1970 Checkers as cabs.....

Yes, the car changed very little from 1959 to 1983 when production ended. But they did change, and given a good look, I know most all the spoting features.....

Sheldon

    

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Posted by carl425 on Sunday, February 16, 2020 10:34 PM

The classic movie screwup is filtered cigarettes in WW2 movies.

My favorite model railroad screwup was a layout set in 1927 with a rail-served brewery. 

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Posted by IRONROOSTER on Monday, February 17, 2020 1:05 AM

My favorite is the Civil War scene in Virginia with a Virginia & Truckee train.

Paul

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Posted by rrinker on Monday, February 17, 2020 7:17 AM

 Get lots of those, as there is an ever limited set of operational period locos available. And even then they have to find some way to cover the air pump. That one Sierra Railway loco has a bigger filmography than some actors.

 One that really jumped out at me and was totally missed by my railroad employee ex father in law was in the move Ray, when they are on their way to a gig, riding in a period correct car on a street lined with period correct cars, and they go under a railroad bridge - and a modern stack train passes over!

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Monday, February 17, 2020 7:37 AM

In the movie, Back To The Future III, which takes place in 1885, I am constantly bothered by the Janney Knuckle Couplers. 

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Posted by ndbprr on Monday, February 17, 2020 7:52 AM

The reason early F units had the same number with a small letter suffix is that the railroads had a concern if numbered differently the unions would demand a crew in each engine. Ultimately they did not and the practice was eliminated.

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Posted by kasskaboose on Monday, February 17, 2020 8:19 AM

Doughless

Sheldon is correct.  The modeler has two copies of the same Atlas loco, which was the only road number offered.  I own one and its an excellent loco.  I have toyed with the idea of getting a second and making one of the 2's into a 7....for my home road shortline.  I'm confident that a bit of razor blade scraping of the blue and dabbing some matched paint would work close enough (maybe some strategeric weathering) to turn it into a 1527.  A little work on the number boards too.

http://archive.atlasrr.com/Images/HOLocomotives/mp15/0409/9980_TQ.jpg

News to me that locos got numbered.  I thought it was only freight cars.  You learn something new.

Mistakes in movies happen far more than we know (or care to know).  Anyone interested can check out webpages that track various types of errors made in movies.  Plenty of movies are quite liberal with facts; this includes those based on books. 

 

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Posted by John-NYBW on Monday, February 17, 2020 8:35 AM

One movie mistake that jumped out at me was in the baseball movie The Natural. I believe it is set in the 1930s. There is a canned shot of the Santa Fe Chief taking the team to their next stop. At that time, there were no major league baseball teams west of either Chicago or St. Louis so there is no way any team would have been riding on The Chief.

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Posted by dknelson on Monday, February 17, 2020 9:38 AM

To get back to anachronisms and other realism errors on layouts, including great layouts, it is a reasonably recent phenomenon that manufacturers release rolling stock, locos or cars, with multiple numbers, or that subsequent runs of a model have different numbers.  In fact it is a reasonably recent phenomenon that the numbers were accurate ones!  Even back in the 1950s Model Railroader's Trade Topics reviews would often point out that the number slapped on the car was for a 50' car and the model was a 40' boxcar, that kind of thing.  Or a totally made up number.  MR's library obviously had equipment registers.  Back then relatively few modelers did; railroadiana of that sort was hard to come by if you were not a railroad insider.  Evidently the manufacturers didn't have them either.  For a long time, models that came painted and lettered whether metal or plastic often featured the very numbers that were pictured in the Car Builder's Cyclopedias, which back then were just about your only reliable source of prototype photos and data.  Sometimes two rival manufacturers would use the same number on their stuff because it was in the "Cyc."

Maybe one reason relatively few of us cared much back then is that the car card and other forms of realistic operation had not taken full hold.  Nothing turned on the fact that all of your identical cars had the identical numbers.  And the photo reproduction in MR and RMC (and the quality of the original photos) was such that the numbers were a bit of a blurr anyway.  That might also explain the structures that just sat on the scenery -- now the photos are so clear you notice things like that more than you did.

As for vehicles, there was such a limited choice at one time that any vehicle you had on the layout was more or less a stand-in for what you really wanted but couldn't get.  Often they weren't really to scale anyway, such as most Matchbox cars.  Just as every layout in America seemed to have the Atlas lumberyard and interlocking tower and the Atlas or Revell suburban passenger station, those who wanted trucks on their layouts basically were looking at Ulrich metal, or the Revell Ford, or Jordan's early Mack or Model T.  Nice models, all, but era be hanged for most uses of them.

I don't necessarily agree with the "we've never had it so good" mantra that some hobby leadership claims, but when it comes to access to prototype information, and the accuracy of the models we pay so dearly for, we certainly used to have it worse.  And often we had no clue.  

Dave Nelson    

 

 

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Posted by chutton01 on Monday, February 17, 2020 9:39 AM

Enzoamps
Oh I saw the trailer right away, but generally don't want to point out stuff like that.  One thing my eye cannot ignore is structures sitting atop the ground.  You know, that gap underneath.  I appreciate the replies. 

Of course I'm late to the party and this thread has since morphed into the IMDB Goofs/Factual Errors section, but getting back to the Modern-Era Rail Hub article. Yes, I saw the trailer with the landing gear up (hey, make a mini-scene with a wreaker or payloader attempting to lift the trailer), I saw the matching numbers, I saw the foundation gaps (in particular, staying with the opening image, gaps under what appears to be a small 'brick' cardstock building at the end of the siding where the switcher clones are on, which seems to also have no track bumpers or wheels stops to prevent said switchers from smashing into the wall, leading me to believe that building was plopped down for the photo-session to hide, I dunno, a drill hole or paint spill or something).
No, what kind of bothered me is, in 2010 (the stated year of the layout), the 15+ year old BN & Santa Fe liveries being plentiful AND pristine (particularly in the Steel Complex image, #2).  I know the modeler John said he doesn't weather rolling stock (if not preweathered), but if JawTooth* among others has taught me anything weather your rolling stock at least some, and if the rolling stock is  15+ years old and hasn't revisited the paint shop (which, since they would have been relettered BNSF, they haven't) weather them a decent amount (or, a lot) - heck there are a number of articles on simple & easy weathering, MR itself has published quite a few.


*The JawTooth YouTube channel, in spite of it's rather overenthusiastic host, does have some great videos of Ohio/Kentucky short lines, particular Cinncinati Eastern Termail, and explores these short lines as they service customers, repair track, install new sidings, and add new customers - activities that certain Class I's seem to have forgotten about...

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Posted by rrebell on Monday, February 17, 2020 9:43 AM

carl425

The classic movie screwup is filtered cigarettes in WW2 movies.

My favorite model railroad screwup was a layout set in 1927 with a rail-served brewery. 

 

They accually had them but they did not become common till the 60's. It is amazing how many products go back farther than most know.

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