ATLANTIC CENTRALBut I have to ask? What radius curves are you having interference issues with their rolling stock?
.
I had problems with the Walthers 46 foot "gold line" USRA gondolas on 22" radius curves.
The easiest solution would have been to shim the trucks up about 0.030" and use Kadee Overshank 20 Series Couplers, but I liked the low riding look of these freight cars.
I removed a lot of the floor to clear it up, and then loads disguised the butchery that happened.
You can click on the image for a better view.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
wjstixBTW does the car say "Chickies Creek" on it, and does it look like it was lettered at the factory rather than a decal added later? If it is "Chickies Creek" then it is Walthers Part # 920-9262 as on the box. If not, it's probably Walthers Part # 920-9242, which is basically the same PRR car but without lighting and without a name (you get a set of decals to add that part of the lettering yourself).
We haven't heard from the OP for a while, would like to hear what they have to say....
IMO, hobby manufacturers should either build it right, make it right, or at least disclose information they think a reasonable person would need to know. "Fits most cars" sounds like a CYA for not knowing enough about a product they claim is their's. How would a customer know which cars it would or would not fit before they buy it...if even Walthers doesn't know?
Maybe some producers have simply hung around too long, aided by a hobby culture that says the customer simply has to be more knowledgeable about a product than even the producer.....or must fix it....or just live with it.
OTOH, it sounds like Kadee knows what they're doing.
- Douglas
YOu are asking a lot if you think they have records. I'll bet those light boards don't even have a serial number. ALl they would have in their records at Walthers is that on such and such a date, they shipped 10 of them to Joe's Hobby Shop. There is zero traceability beyond that, and I really hope it never coems to that, because if you think thsi hobby is expensive now....
It matters with cars because lives are at stake. Airplane parts are even more traceable than automobile parts. Because lives are at stake, and thestakes a higher with a passenger jet. Model trains - not so much.
Also notice in the product description at Walthers it says "fits MOST cars". Not "Fits all of our passenger cars with absolutely no modifications required"
At worst, they could at least provide a list of which cars it fits directly, which cars it fits with modification, and which cars it won't fit no matter what (although that last is more dependent on modeler skill - give me a circuit board with lights on it, and a car I can open up, and I guarantee I can make it fit, somehow). Kind of like Kadee's lists of which couplers go on which locos and cars. That not being readily available on the product page, I fault Walthers for.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
PRR8259
PRR8259 I have purchased a Walthers coach in the past (correct for Santa Fe heavyweight coach) AND the lighting kit that Walthers sells for it clearly did NOT fit that car. One would have to cut interior partitions AND the inside wall at the ends of the car in order to make it fit correctly. I also complained directly to Walthers to no avail. John
I have purchased a Walthers coach in the past (correct for Santa Fe heavyweight coach) AND the lighting kit that Walthers sells for it clearly did NOT fit that car. One would have to cut interior partitions AND the inside wall at the ends of the car in order to make it fit correctly.
I also complained directly to Walthers to no avail.
John
That's unacceptable. That has nothing to do with the seller, the dealer, or any buyer who buys a NIB unit. That is an item that should be recalled by Walthers. (The lighting kit).
Even after 20 years, every one of them they produced or sold should be bought back or fixed for the same issue. No reason why they can't issue a recall like an auto company. They should have a record of every item shipped and can reconcile it back, figuring they will need to account for every one of those kits eventually.
tstage Sheldon, I had issues with R22" curves; larger than R18" but still moderately sharp. I found that paring the inside corner of the caboose steps with an Xacto knife did improve performance some but still didn't completely eliminate the binding issue. I seem to recollect from other's responses in the past that - even on larger radii curves - certain Walthers rolling stock still had some binding issues. More imporant than that the Walthers caboose wasn't a good stand-in for a low cupola NYC caboose. That was early on in my modeling so I was pretty green in my understanding of prototype cars. Tom
Sheldon,
I had issues with R22" curves; larger than R18" but still moderately sharp. I found that paring the inside corner of the caboose steps with an Xacto knife did improve performance some but still didn't completely eliminate the binding issue. I seem to recollect from other's responses in the past that - even on larger radii curves - certain Walthers rolling stock still had some binding issues.
More imporant than that the Walthers caboose wasn't a good stand-in for a low cupola NYC caboose. That was early on in my modeling so I was pretty green in my understanding of prototype cars.
Tom
Well, OK, exact prototype accuracy aside since I know nothing about NYC cabeese, we just can't have our cake and eat it too on this issue. If we want all this detail, we need reasonably large curves.
22" inch curves are really sharp from where I come from in this hobby, and yes, I am a self proclaimed radius snob.
The haters are all welcome to tell me how we all don't have 1,000 or now in my case, 1600 sq ft layout rooms.
But going back to the first layout I built myself at age 16, I knew I wanted big, realistic curves, 36" radius for any kind of Class I modeling in HO. I was willing to settle for less "layout" to have bigger curves. I had an L shaped room 24 x 30, with both legs being about 12' wide.
The layout my father built for me had 18" and 22" curves, and my longest equipment was 72' Athearn passenger cars.........
But as soon as I saw the layout at the Severna Park club, I understood the importance of this issue, both operationally and visually.
As for accuracy and "stand ins", that's a topic for a different thread. I know a lot about the railroads I model, B&O, C&O and Western Maryland, and I'm happy to be as accurate as is practical, but I'm just not as "fussy" as my knowledge might require others to be.......
For me it's about the the "overall visual effect"...........my long trains are more important to that than every car being perfectly accurate.........
Sheldon
More imporant than that the Walthers caboose wasn't a good stand-in for a low cupola NYC caboose. (That was early on in my modeling so I was pretty green in my understanding of prototype cars.) It wasn't a complete loss though. I eventually cannibalized the doors, windows, and stairs of that Walthers caboose to kitbash a prototype model of a NYC emergency war caboose. I'm still hoping to create a V.2 of that unique car with better/more accurate parts.
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
tstage I own only a few Walthers brand locomotives and rolling stock: Two SW1s (original and newer run), two 46' gondolas and a caboose. The locomotives I've been happy with. All three pieces of rolling stock, however, had interferenece issues on curves. So I no longer purchase any of their rolling stock, nor do I run them behind any of my locomotives. Walthers structures kits have generally been good-quality and I've liked their offerings but I haven't purchased anything they've manufactured in probably 10 years; preferring laser kits, craftsman kits, or kitbashing other manufacturer's kit to get the structures I want. I don't even venture onto the Walthers website anymore because I know they generally charge full MSRP for an item then hammer you again with escessive S&H. The only way I might order anything from Walthers is through my LHS because 1) they have an account with them and 2) I don't have to pay the S&H costs. The item also has to be on sale. Walthers has its place. Their products just have a very low priority/interest for the layout that I'm interested in at this time. Tom
I own only a few Walthers brand locomotives and rolling stock: Two SW1s (original and newer run), two 46' gondolas and a caboose. The locomotives I've been happy with. All three pieces of rolling stock, however, had interferenece issues on curves. So I no longer purchase any of their rolling stock, nor do I run them behind any of my locomotives.
Walthers structures kits have generally been good-quality and I've liked their offerings but I haven't purchased anything they've manufactured in probably 10 years; preferring laser kits, craftsman kits, or kitbashing other manufacturer's kit to get the structures I want. I don't even venture onto the Walthers website anymore because I know they generally charge full MSRP for an item then hammer you again with escessive S&H. The only way I might order anything from Walthers is through my LHS because 1) they have an account with them and 2) I don't have to pay the S&H costs. The item also has to be on sale.
Walthers has its place. Their products just have a very low priority/interest for the layout that I'm interested in at this time.
Agreed on virtually all points.
Walthers is a manufacturer/importer, they are only in the retail business as part of a tradition that is as old as the company. A tradition most "young people" are not aware of. That tradition, long before today's internet or even the mail order houses of the 60's, 70's and 80's, was to serve those who did not have access to a local retail hobby store.
The retail branch of Walthers, once called the Terminal Hobby Shop, was truely one of the first mail order suppliers in this business.
But back then, as today, they did not want to undermine their retailers by discounting prices. That was back in a day when most shops sold at retail or only very small discounts.
Walthers has made it clear in recent years by their actions that they don't really want to be a distributor or even a full line retailer of other brands any more. But they can't change all of this over night......
More and more other brands are disappearing from their offerings, just part of the transition away from "distributors" and toward all retailers buying direct from manufacturers and/or all manufacturers selling their product direct to the customer.
I have a moderate amount of Walthers product, much of it dates all the way back to the 80's, some even older.
But agreed, they are not a major source for me either. I'm not a buyer of expensive RTR passenger cars, I have most of the locos I need and want, and as a DC operator prefer pre Walthers Proto stuff.
Some of their rolling stock fits my needs, much does not.
Whatever Walthers product I do buy is bought where ever I find it at the right price........
But I have to ask? What radius curves are you having interference issues with their rolling stock?
Cabooses, especially steam era eastern cabooses, are known for having trucks close to steps at the end, which if done totally to scale can easily be an issue even with moderately large curves.
So, I'm just curious?
I've acquired a lot of stuff from Walthers. I used to take the Walthers Flyer to bed and read it, just like when I was a kid with a Lionel catalog.
My former LHS would place a Walthers order every week anyway, so he was happy to add my wish list. He would give me the flyer price and I would not be charged for shipping. So, I could order small items like scenic details that would be priced out by shipping costs.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
mbinsewiWell, it's not the first time a new member has come on here with his 1st or 2nd post complaining that someone is ripping them off
Yes, I have noticed that quite a few times where a new member on the forums wishes to gripe and it seems they hope we will all join the chorus of griping.
I have very little dealings with Walthers.
I bought all my Walthers building kits and my two switch engines from MB Klein. There were no problems, and that was the end of it.
I purchased all my old style Walthers/Shinohara switches from eBay, and even the ones NIB/NOS, I know Walthers would not be able to stand behind them 20 years down the road from when they were manufactured.
Well, it's not the first time a new member has come on here with his 1st or 2nd post complaining that someone is ripping them off, and manufacturer bashing.
I've bought a lot of supposedly NOS equipment from Ebay, and I knew what I was getting into.
Never have I thought that the original manufacturer or supplier of the model was at any fault with any discrepancies or mechanical problems.
It is what it is, a purchase from an Ebay seller, and who knows what the chain of events and travel the model went through before the seller got his hands on it, and ultimately, to the buyers hands.
I think there has been enough info in here for the OP to work with, and maybe even learn from.
Mike.
My You Tube
I am unhappy with the title of this thread. Yes, there are some unscrupulous dealers out there, but I have always found Walthers to be responsive and helpful to the extent they can be. They have a tremendous number of items in their catalog and on their shelves. No one can be expected to know small details of every item.
I would give them the benefit of the doubt if they responded but didn't get all of the details right. They are probably doing their best.
Randy makes a good point.
I'm not going to comment on the specific car, but JMO:
If the seller is an authorized Walthers dealer and he listed the item as "new" (which by ebay defintion means UNOPENED, IIRC), then it would seem that Walthers may be at risk of having an item not all that it should be.
If there is any way the seller described the item as not being brand new and unopened, then they are the responsible party, not Walthers. And, IMO, selling one car out of a set seems like somebody monkeyed with the set. If its a set, then Walthers intends for it to be sold as a set. If its a car, then Walthers intends for it to be sold as a car. If its represented to be compatible with a set, then it should be. If its not advertised to be compatible with a set, then you shouldn't assume that it is.
If somebody is representing a car as being part of a set, then Walthers bears no responsibility, IMO.
ALso the factory lighted one includes figures. Got those too? If the figures are missing as well, then what you got is the 9242 version. If it was in a 9262 box, then the seller owes you an explanation. The item number ought to be molded on the underside of the car, as well.
Ya, the problem is that although there are some hobby shops that sell on Ebay, Walthers is going to make the assumption that anything bought on Ebay is "used", in the sense that the seller is the original buyer - and often, a warranty only applies to the original buyer.
BTW does the car say "Chickies Creek" on it, and does it look like it was lettered at the factory rather than a decal added later? If it is "Chickies Creek" then it is Walthers Part # 920-9262 as on the box. If not, it's probably Walthers Part # 920-9242, which is basically the same PRR car but without lighting and without a name (you get a set of decals to add that part of the lettering yourself).
https://www.walthers.com/85-p-s-plan-9009-12-4-sleeper-standard-rtr-1960s-broadway-limited-pennsylvania-railroad-creek-series-tuscan-black-dulux
https://www.walthers.com/1960s-broadway-limited-85-p-s-12-4-sleeper-plan-9009-dlx-2-pennsylvania-railroad-chickies-creek-tuscan-black-dulux
railrdjeff Hello Everyone, To clarify a few things. I did purchase these cars on Ebay; however, they were new in the box from a dealer that was selling off their hobby shop. The boxes were pristine, and unless the seller was a very good liar / counterfeiter, these did come straight from Walthers. (I'm not sure how Walthers is blameless on an Ebay purchase vice me purchasing from an online or brick and mortar hobby shop. They are the manufacturer.) What I am trying to find out is whether this particular car in a set that is advertised as all lighted did or did not have a light set in it. Since all advertising, instructions, and boxes make the claim, it seem disingenuous that one particular car would not have it without that being noted anywhere.
Hello Everyone,
To clarify a few things. I did purchase these cars on Ebay; however, they were new in the box from a dealer that was selling off their hobby shop. The boxes were pristine, and unless the seller was a very good liar / counterfeiter, these did come straight from Walthers. (I'm not sure how Walthers is blameless on an Ebay purchase vice me purchasing from an online or brick and mortar hobby shop. They are the manufacturer.) What I am trying to find out is whether this particular car in a set that is advertised as all lighted did or did not have a light set in it. Since all advertising, instructions, and boxes make the claim, it seem disingenuous that one particular car would not have it without that being noted anywhere.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
The problem, as I see it, is not with Walthers at all.
The item in question was bought off of eBay, not from Walthers.
The item in question may or may not have been listed on eBay as new in box.
The item in question maybe boxed incorrectly by the seller on eBay, modified, changed, or otherwise altered from its new from the manufacturer status by the eBay seller, or someone else prior to them.
The item in question was indeed offered by Walthers as a lighted and unlighted car, maybe the eBay seller had both and mixed up the boxes, inserts, etc... either deliberately or accidentally.
Maybe the eBay seller had two similar looking cars, and mixed them up, and the item in question is not even the Walthers car at all. (This would explain why the lighting kit does not fit.)
When was the original message to Walthers sent? IIRC, OP said he never received an answer for 3 weeks before messaging again. Christmas break might have explained the absence of a initial response, as the timing is about correct....
Again, why would Walthers, a company that has worked very hard to have a good reputation, ruin it by deliberately lying to someone about a product that was purchased second (or even third or more) hand from some other location. (eBay) The answer is simple - They wouldn't.
The point is, the issue the OP has posted about is not an issue of Walthers lying to him, but the eBay seller misrepresenting the sold item. Either deliberately or accidentally, the eBay seller has misrepresented this item.
The OP's issue is not with Walthers.
The OP has a issue with the seller on eBay.
Has the OP contacted the eBay seller about this issue? If they are a legitimate company selling excess stock, or a honest seller, the seller will respond to fix the issue and make the buyer happy.
If the seller deliberately ripped off the OP, ebay will step in to help. But, the OP must contact seller and eBay, as well as Paypal, before too much time has elapsed and the buyer is then out of options.
So, in conclusion, NO, Walthers has not lied to the OP. The eBay seller has.
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
kasskabooseHow is Walthers (or any manufacturer) responsible for e-bay? Perhaps go back to the seller or e-bay and complain? If you bought the item from Walthers, then of course complain to them.
Just for general information.
There are several B&M hobby shops on e-Bay that sells ther old stock through their e-bay store.. The shipping invoice should have the name,phone number and address of the shop.
These are the sellers I buy from because they are LHS and not a private seller getting rid of models they no longer need nor want..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Spalato68 hon30critter Spalato68 For 90 USD per piece, it is understandable that buyer is upset and manufacturer held responsible, not seller. Because product was not advertised honestly/correctly by the manufacturer in the first place. Why seller should be held responsible at all? Hrvoje Hi Hrvoje, Well, it would appear that the OP was right about the car description, that is unless Walthers offered a similar car previously without lighting. If that were the case then Walthers owed the OP a more informed response. However, I think that the most important issue here is to recognize that we all make mistakes and apparently so does Walthers. However, to accuse them of lying is a bit extreme. As was said, what would they gain by conducting their business in that manner? I'd suggest that the OP be patient and approach Walthers again. What's to lose? Dave Hi Dave, yes, it is true - we all make mistakes. But when confronted with it, if someone is honest, at least what this person can do is apologize. OP did contact Whalters twice. For the first time, they even did not respond, although they knew, they advertise that this car has lighting, which is not true. Moreover, in sheet included in the package of that car they advertise lighting kit that does not fit that car, unless a car (prices at 90 USD!!) is adapted by customer. Well, for me, that is a bad customer service. Walthers could, when contacted for the first time, apologize. On second time though, they should not only apologize, but offer a full refund for this lighting kit, because OP should get it in a first place, when he bought the car, beleiving that lighting kit is there, and then, he bought it separately, but it does not fit, despite Walthers advertises it fits. Instead, they just told him, well - cut a part of the interior, and install it. Why this was not explained on a sheet included with a car? In fact, they sold him twice a wrongly advertised product. Patience? Hrvoje
hon30critter Spalato68 For 90 USD per piece, it is understandable that buyer is upset and manufacturer held responsible, not seller. Because product was not advertised honestly/correctly by the manufacturer in the first place. Why seller should be held responsible at all? Hrvoje Hi Hrvoje, Well, it would appear that the OP was right about the car description, that is unless Walthers offered a similar car previously without lighting. If that were the case then Walthers owed the OP a more informed response. However, I think that the most important issue here is to recognize that we all make mistakes and apparently so does Walthers. However, to accuse them of lying is a bit extreme. As was said, what would they gain by conducting their business in that manner? I'd suggest that the OP be patient and approach Walthers again. What's to lose? Dave
Spalato68 For 90 USD per piece, it is understandable that buyer is upset and manufacturer held responsible, not seller. Because product was not advertised honestly/correctly by the manufacturer in the first place. Why seller should be held responsible at all? Hrvoje
Hi Hrvoje,
Well, it would appear that the OP was right about the car description, that is unless Walthers offered a similar car previously without lighting. If that were the case then Walthers owed the OP a more informed response.
However, I think that the most important issue here is to recognize that we all make mistakes and apparently so does Walthers. However, to accuse them of lying is a bit extreme. As was said, what would they gain by conducting their business in that manner? I'd suggest that the OP be patient and approach Walthers again. What's to lose?
Dave
Hi Dave,
yes, it is true - we all make mistakes. But when confronted with it, if someone is honest, at least what this person can do is apologize.
OP did contact Whalters twice. For the first time, they even did not respond, although they knew, they advertise that this car has lighting, which is not true. Moreover, in sheet included in the package of that car they advertise lighting kit that does not fit that car, unless a car (prices at 90 USD!!) is adapted by customer.
Well, for me, that is a bad customer service. Walthers could, when contacted for the first time, apologize. On second time though, they should not only apologize, but offer a full refund for this lighting kit, because OP should get it in a first place, when he bought the car, beleiving that lighting kit is there, and then, he bought it separately, but it does not fit, despite Walthers advertises it fits.
Instead, they just told him, well - cut a part of the interior, and install it. Why this was not explained on a sheet included with a car?
In fact, they sold him twice a wrongly advertised product. Patience?
Hrvoje
The nice people at Walthers no longer make these products right out back in their own factory, they have them made a half a world away by a contract vendor.
Over the years I suspect these products have been made by various vendors, in various versions. The shear volume of different passenger cas Walthers has made in the last 20 years is staggering. And detailed catalog records of every offering are not as available to the public as they were when they made less items, and printed a complete, detailed catalog every year.
So lots of things could have happened here............
The vendor Walthers used may have made a mistake, that would be Wathers responsiblity.......but for how long into the future? These particular cars were made some years back, 2016?.
It is unreasonable to buy and hold products unopened and unused for many years and then expect a manufacturer to have parts or replacement items for defects long after they are no longer producing the item.
It is at least partly the responsibilty of the retailer to be responsible for defects in "new old stock" merchandise he is selling.
BUT, if Walthers did not make the mistake, maybe the same car without lighting was produced. Maybe the packaging was switched with such a car, purposely or by accident.
Maybe the parts were removed by someone? To fix another car? This could have happened anywhere along the way, and the car mistakenly put back in stock for sale.
How can Walthers be held responsible for what happens to the product after it leaves them, assuming it was correct when it left?
Walthers is a big player in this hobby, yet the whole of their directly employed staff could pose for a picture just like your third grade class. This is an industry of small companies by any measure, customer service is something they want to deliver, but cannot deliver on the "instant gratification" scale many people expect, they are not AMAZON.
This problem is an example of one of the short comings of the "limited production", preorder sold, marketing of these products.
If you bought a new automobile tomorrow, with a 3 year/36,000 mile warranty, and parked in a garage for five years before starting to use it, guess what, the manufacturer is not going to warranty it - period.
A little more research finds that in the July 2016 issue of Model Railroader, there is a review of an unlighted version of this car........offered for only $75, no catalog number is given.........
Again, it seems your first complaint should be to the seller.........
This is an issue between you and the seller. I would initiate a dispute with them. If you bought the items through PayPal, you can file a dispute with them, unless you used the "Friend or family" option. With this option, you forfeit some rights as a buyer.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
Spalato68For 90 USD per piece, it is understandable that buyer is upset and manufacturer held responsible, not seller. Because product was not advertised honestly/correctly by the manufacturer in the first place. Why seller should be held responsible at all? Hrvoje
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Well,
Walthers is advertising this car as lighted on their web site:
For 90 USD per piece, it is understandable that buyer is upset and manufacturer held responsible, not seller. Because product was not advertised honestly/correctly by the manufacturer in the first place. Why seller should be held responsible at all?
Can you simply create your own lighting circuit? A few small LED's, a magnetic reed switch, and some wire.
Either battery powered or track powered if the car is wired for such.
It's not a hard thing, and would allow the car to be lighted.
And no, Walthers is not lying. They would gain nothing good, and only harm their very good reputation that they have worked very hard to gain with modelers. It appears this add on car was either never lighted and described wrong by the eBay seller, or had been modified and is not indeed "new in box" if there was ever supposed to be a lighting circuit in it.
railrdjeffJust frustrated and hoping someone else has these to confirm or deny the story I am getting.
Hi Jeff,
I see no indication that Walthers is lying to you. What possible good would lying to you do them? That is simply not how they operate. If it was, we would be hearing about it all over the place.
Yes, they can be faulted for not answering your first enquiry, that is if they got the message. However, all I see from them after that are honest, factual responses. The car in question has clearly been identified as not having been part of the original set. Therefore, any references to the set would not apply to the add on car. My suggestion is to modify the interior of the offending car so that the lighting kit fits, and then run your train!
Cheers!!
the car number 920-9262 was NOT sold as a set, individual only .. however Walthers info does show it as having included factory LED lighting ..
I would go after the seller, NOT Walthers
I'm not a PRR modeler, and I don't keep up with all the details of every name train set Walthers has offered.
BUT, a little quick research suggests this car was not sold as part of a lighted name train set, but rather was sold unlighted as an add on car, and because of its multi level sleeper design, may not be automatically compatible with their "basic" lighting kit.
Walthers has no control over how some Ebay seller describes or advertises their products.
Just because the seller called it a set, does not mean Walthers sold it that way.
How is Walthers (or any manufacturer) responsible for e-bay? Perhaps go back to the seller or e-bay and complain? If you bought the item from Walthers, then of course complain to them.